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q12 Apr 3, 2022 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9587524)
YOW-LHR doesn't seem to be on that map. Tells me AC is in no hurry to resume LHR or FRA from there. Sucks for Ottawans.

Here's a zoomed in version of that:

It appears both YHZ-LHR and future YHZ-FRA will be A321XLR instead of the Max.

Ottawa and Newark appear to be routes to western Canada.

https://i.postimg.cc/dVjyV0R8/ac3.png

thewave46 Apr 3, 2022 1:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9587524)
YOW-LHR doesn't seem to be on that map. Tells me AC is in no hurry to resume LHR or FRA from there. Sucks for Ottawans.

I'm taking that map with a grain of salt.

YOW-LHR and YOW-FRA would be good routes for the XLR. Air Canada might sub in a 787 for summer peak, but the XLR for winter would be perfect.

LHR would be almost necessary for AC to keep its slot allotment.

thenoflyzone Apr 3, 2022 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9587533)
I'm taking that map with a grain of salt.

YOW-LHR and YOW-FRA would be good routes for the XLR. Air Canada might sub in a 787 for summer peak, but the XLR for winter would be perfect.

LHR would be almost necessary for AC to keep its slot allotment.

They can lease their slots to other carriers also. From my contacts, I have it on good authority that YOW isn't all that important to AC, especially on the long haul scene. They have the frequent flyer/aeroplan/government traffic in their pocket already, via YYZ/YUL, and they seem to be happy with that strategy for now. The markets that are important out of YOW (Boston, Washington, New York) are already planned to resume.

zahav Apr 3, 2022 3:48 PM

On page 21 of that Air Canada PDF, under the title of "Strong foundation to prepare for the future" it has a title box "Four Global Hubs" but only shows YVR, YYZ, and YUL? And the mystery of their relationship with YYC continues to deepen lol... It's fairly obvious it is not a hub to them in any material way, other than saying it to ward of WS in some way? It isn't reality, because the reality is WS is building a true fortress hub at YYC and it's become obvious AC is willing to let them, even on European routes, so wondering when they will stop the charade that YYC is one of their hubs. On page 33 however, YYC is back in the hub discussion ], specifically listed as one of their global hubs as a "mid-continent" hub, but obvious from the numbers that it isn't. So I guess the take-away is that YYC is still a hub for AC, despite fairly obvious route decisions to the contrary. Meaning that YYZ, YVR, and YYC are all confirmed hubs for both AC and WS, while all other airports are for one or the other, or just focus cities or nothing at all.

The 321XLR is certainly a game changer for out east, it really opens up tons of destinations. While YVR is definitely a widebody centric destination, always has been and likely always will be. Even with transcontinental destinations, it is widebody focused (this summer will have 7 widebodies to YYZ, 2 to YUL, and 1 to EWR, which is a big chunk of it's east coast service). I'm guessing since we won't see many 321XLRs, our new routes will be widebodies. Can the XLR fly YVR-BOG normally, or is it restricted?

thenoflyzone Apr 3, 2022 4:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9587611)
Can the XLR fly YVR-BOG normally, or is it restricted?

It has the range for the flight down, but the return flight would be heavily restricted out of BOG, due to altitude, so it's not the right plane for the job.

hehehe Apr 3, 2022 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9587503)
Air Canada Investor Day 2022 presentation on March 30th. Some interesting pages in there.

https://aircanada.investorroom.com/d...+FINAL-web.pdf

Page 33. Number of dom/intl/transborder destinations served at each of the 4 hubs, and TATL hub ranking.

Page 34. Potential new destinations (some of these on the A321XLR). Hard to make out, but you can see YVR-SIN, YYZ-IST/ARN/LOS/DSS/BLR, YUL-TLS, YHZ-FRA. Some others that aren't too visible as well.

Page 37. A321XLR potential destinations. YUL-DSS, YYZ-ARN/BER/PRG, YHZ-FRA, among the most interesting. Nothing out of the west coast, except for domestic runs and YVR-EWR.

Page 38. Map of the fastest growing US markets AC wants to focus on, including SEA, SFO, DEN, MIA, AUS, BNA.

Page 39. Map of all the 6th freedom opportunities out of YYZ/YUL from the US to Transatlantic.

A lot of other insightful information in there.

Enjoy.

Why do they say "4 global hubs" but only list three? In regard to YYC it seems like they want to only maintain what they have on transborder/international routes and marginally grow domestic.

thenoflyzone Apr 3, 2022 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9587640)
Why do they say "4 global hubs" but only list three? In regard to YYC it seems like they want to only maintain what they have on transborder/international routes and marginally grow domestic.

It's probably a typo. Either way, on the page with the number of destinations per hub, only YYZ has the mention of "global hub". The others are specialized hubs. Next to YUL it says "Transatlantic", next to YVR it says "pacific gateway" and YYC "Mid-continent" (fancy word for an east-west domestic hub).

casper Apr 3, 2022 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9587675)
It's probably a typo. Either way, on the page with the number of destinations per hub, only YYZ has the mention of "global hub". The others are specialized hubs. Next to YUL it says "Transatlantic", next to YVR it says "pacific gateway" and YYC "Mid-continent" (fancy word for an east-west domestic hub).

YVR will never be the major domestic hub for any national airline. Geography does not work that way. Pacific Gateway sounds like a reasonable name to use.

Montreal is a weird market in that travel for French speaking Europe is very high and domestic travel is relatively lower.

YYC is more of a connector between costal BC, prairies and the rest of Canada. Winnipeg would make sense have the "mid-continent" title. YYC is already half way into the middle of the West to be called mid-continent.

TheGreatestX Apr 3, 2022 6:04 PM

Sad to see TPE completely removed from all of their maps.

thenoflyzone Apr 4, 2022 8:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatestX (Post 9587698)
Sad to see TPE completely removed from all of their maps.

…and MEL and KIX. Doesn’t mean they won’t return, but if they went out of their way to remove them on the map, it tells me they’re in no hurry to return.

On another note, did anyone else see the new Condor paint scheme. WTF happened there? I was sure it was an April fools joke, but it’s not.

At least it’s not a Euro white paint scheme, but that’s as far as my compliments go.

Dominion301 Apr 4, 2022 8:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9587524)
YOW-LHR doesn't seem to be on that map. Tells me AC is in no hurry to resume LHR or FRA from there. Sucks for Ottawans.

Yeah we always seem to get screwed-over one way or another. This time it was thanks to COVID. In the original 2020 plans YOW was going to have its best year ever. CDG was close to happening. LGW was close to happening. DUB was a strong possibility. Now it's more overlooked than ever.

I think in the case of FRA that's true, but for LHR it means AC will be sticking with the 788 and not 321. The government is starting to ramp travel back up for 2021, so that theoretically should align with AC's slide about being only 10-15% out of 2019's capacity in 2023 vs this summer still being at least 20%. For FRA the big question is will LH ever operate a YOW-FRA ASM or will AC reacquire it? or maybe Condor down the road?

It's tough to tell, but it only looks like YVR for YOW for the XLR on that map. The thing is, 1/2 the stuff on these maps never come to pass (YHZ-FRA has been on AC "future routes" for upwards of 20 years now - and why would they anymore with two competitors - one of which is a codeshare partner), while other stuff not there will happen - YOW-FRA seems like an obvious one as would YOW-CDG later in the 2020s.

nname Apr 4, 2022 9:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatestX (Post 9587698)
Sad to see TPE completely removed from all of their maps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9588775)
…and MEL and KIX. Doesn’t mean they won’t return, but if they went out of their way to remove them on the map, it tells me they’re in no hurry to return.

Seems like for a route to appear on the map, they must be exist in the AC schedule for either S22 or W22 as of Jan this year. So to me, this is just an indication of when the map was made, and was a snapshot of what's scheduled at one point in time, rather than a prediction of S23 routes and onward. I saved 3 copies of AC schedule for S22 (June, Jan, and Mar), and the route map matches the schedule I saved from January.

Just picked a few destinations, KIX and OTP was removed late last year, so they're not in the map; KEF was removed earlier this year, so it still shows in the map. BNE and AKL was always on the schedule for W22, but not MEL... so that's how they appears on the map.

hehehe Apr 4, 2022 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9588775)
…and MEL and KIX. Doesn’t mean they won’t return, but if they went out of their way to remove them on the map, it tells me they’re in no hurry to return.

On another note, did anyone else see the new Condor paint scheme. WTF happened there? I was sure it was an April fools joke, but it’s not.

At least it’s not a Euro white paint scheme, but that’s as far as my compliments go.

If only they flew for one more summer to YYC and we'd be able to see it here
:hell:

thenoflyzone Apr 4, 2022 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9588877)
Seems like for a route to appear on the map, they must be exist in the AC schedule for either S22 or W22 as of Jan this year. So to me, this is just an indication of when the map was made, and was a snapshot of what's scheduled at one point in time, rather than a prediction of S23 routes and onward. I saved 3 copies of AC schedule for S22 (June, Jan, and Mar), and the route map matches the schedule I saved from January.

Just picked a few destinations, KIX and OTP was removed late last year, so they're not in the map; KEF was removed earlier this year, so it still shows in the map. BNE and AKL was always on the schedule for W22, but not MEL... so that's how they appears on the map.

That makes sense.

Still, the fact they completely removed some long haul routes while keeping others "alive", so to speak (even though they keep pushing them back), shows where their priorities lie.

Speaking of airline schedules, Jim Liu is back at it. His site is free for now, with a gradual shift to paid subscription only, sometime in 2023.

https://aeroroutes.com/

Latest AC changes, as of April 2nd.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220403-acns22intl

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9588928)
If only they flew for one more summer to YYC and we'd be able to see it here
:hell:

No thanks. I think I'd have an epileptic seizure if I saw that paint scheme in person.

hehehe Apr 4, 2022 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9588931)
That makes sense.

Still, the fact they completely removed some long haul routes while keeping others "alive", so to speak (even though they keep pushing them back), shows where their priorities lie.

Speaking of airline schedules, Jim Liu is back at it. His site is free for now, with a gradual shift to paid subscription only, sometime in 2023.

https://aeroroutes.com/

Latest AC changes, as of April 2nd.

https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220403-acns22intl



No thanks. I think I'd have an epileptic seizure if I saw that paint scheme in person.

But where's the fun without some questionable, interesting(to say the least) and even disturbing paint schemes on the apron?

bcard519 Apr 5, 2022 2:47 AM

Wrong forum

hollywoodcory Apr 5, 2022 4:13 PM

WS has again added a 4th weekly YYC-FCO & YYZ-BCN from September 6-until early October. They briefly added the extra flights through most of peak summer previously.

Op days are now:
YYC-FCO Wed/Thu/Fri/Sat
YYZ-BCN Tue/Thu/Fri/Sun

JakeLRS Apr 5, 2022 5:59 PM

Flair adds offerings from Windsor (YQG) to Montreal (YUL) and Halifax (YHZ). Surprised they didn’t attempt a YVR or YEG flight.

Flair also adds YKF-YUL in the summer.

nname Apr 5, 2022 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9589661)
Flair adds offerings from Windsor (YQG) to Montreal (YUL) and Halifax (YHZ). Surprised they didn’t attempt a YVR or YEG flight.

Flair also adds YKF-YUL in the summer.

This would be surprising to say, but Flair do not have enough plane to run anything more from YVR or YEG this summer without cancelling routes or reducing frequencies.

The only available slot out of YVR are Tuesday after 9pm, or Wed/Sat after 7pm.

Dominion301 Apr 5, 2022 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9589661)
Flair adds offerings from Windsor (YQG) to Montreal (YUL) and Halifax (YHZ). Surprised they didn’t attempt a YVR or YEG flight.

Flair also adds YKF-YUL in the summer.

YQG-YUL base fare of $3.54 on a $29 intro fare.

For YKF-YUL, I wonder how that'll affect Pivot Airlines' launch? I wonder if they'll now focus solely on YKF-YOW? Who knows as to when Pivot will even start sked ops at this point.


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