This might be a different story if 5th Ave needed “revitalization” but does not. Also, 3rd Street is full of homeless.

I just don’t see a need to further destroy what’s left of the street grid in favor of creating a Disney-esque mall atmosphere when there is a really great city dynamic already at play. To that end, I’ve heard people (usually from LA) already call Gaslamp Disney-like. I completely disagree but see turning 5th Ave into a pedestrian mall as severely undercutting the authenticity of the street and surrounding area.

Hope this at least makes some sense even if others disagree.

I do see some of the points you're making, but I'll offer a rebuttal.

There is no authenticity to be preserved in the Gaslamp. Back in the 1970s the area was known as Stingaree, and it was nothing but warehouses, navy surplus stores, tattoo parlors, and porno shops (which were mostly fronts for brothels). It was such a scuzzy, dirty, unpleasant place the navy repeatedly banned sailors from going anywhere near, not that it tended to stop anyone. In the early 80s the Gaslamp Quarter Association was founded and over the next 20 years they carefully crafted Gaslamp into the Disneyland with drinks you see today. They kicked out all the porno shops and surplus stores, renovated all the warehouses into bars, and transformed 5th Ave into a sanitized parody of a sailor's drinking holiday. There's a certain irony to it, there are more bars on 5th now than back when its primary clientele actually was navy personnel on shore leave.

So the question here isn't if we should preserve some sort of "authentic Gaslamp Quarter experience" or somesuch, because that doesn't and never really has existed, but rather if we want to keep our 1980s/90s style entertainment district or update it to something more contemporary. I'll posit that a pedestrian promenade offers a lot of benefits over the current design. Bikes, scooters, and people stumbling out onto the street already make traffic on 5th a nightmare, and most people living downtown already avoid driving up and down that street without reason. There are a good deal of safety benefits to keeping cars away from people who are.... lets call it experiencing a temporary bout of impaired judgement. And all those parks and green spaces would provide more incentive for people to visit Gaslamp during the daytime, which they don't really do atm. All and all it provides a better experience to the area's customers, which is probably why the Gaslamp Quarter Association is looking to do it.

Because ultimately, this is a competition. If Gaslamp doesn't keep up to snuff tourists are going skip it and start visiting 3rd St Santa Monica instead, or Little Toyko in LA, or the Las Vegas strip for that matter (all of which have been renovated to some extent or another for a better pedestrian experience). And considering ~30% of our economy is based on tourism, we can hardly afford to watch one of our best destinations wither on the vine as everyone else improves.

^^ Agreed.

We need to completely redesign our streets away from being autocentric. Better balancing pedestrian, bicycle, transit and cars will help us create safer, healthier streets for everyone. This is really as much a quality of life and climate solution as it is a business decision. I'm excited it's moving forward.

Meanwhile MTS is rolling out its electric bus pilot program today, and the first segments of it's bus (and bike) only lanes on El Cajon Blvd have opened. We are finally taking back our streets, and beginning to decarbonize our transit fleet!

I’d prefer to see Gaslamp (and nearby areas) continue to evolve without seeing someone (in this case the Gaslamp Association) try to mold the area into something that may or may not succeed. I don’t want to see downtown streets turned into a mall. There are plenty of opportunities to create malls. We don’t need to sacrifice one of the highest energy areas in town for this purpose.

Living in Europe at the moment and pretty much every city I've visited here has had a pedestrian promenade in the city center. I think downtown can at least have a segment of a single street transformed into something similar.

Huh??? This is a massive success by any objective measure.

Gaslamp quarter
 

I think like with most proposals the devil is in the details. This can either be a really good thing or a really bad thing, depending on how they go about it. It’s not something that should be done half-assed. If their plan is just to put up some barriers and call it a day then it’s not worth the disruption to traffic. If they actually do something that adds trees/greenery and a quality outdoor environment to accompany the businesses then it will be good. I read that a big issue is how deliveries would be handled. They talked about only closing it to traffic at certain times. That would be half-assed in my opinion. It needs to be something more substantial, they will need to figure out the delivery problem

Looks like the Gaslamp Quarter Association has put up a website with a video of some renderings.


• Video Link

These two make an interesting pair of reads:

Note: Edited to remove reaction quotes from various officials. Click links for full articles.

I think 5th St. (and maybe 4th & 6th too) should ban auto traffic, at least Fri-Sat. night.

Most of the buildings are original, aren't they? Including Wyatt Earp's saloon/casino. Just spruced up with new paint. Not a Disney replica. Maybe horse drawn carriages would be a nice touch if they banned auto traffic, at least Fri-Sat. Of course they'd have to have a road apple cleanup crew.. or mandate tail bags for the equines.

Oh all the buildings there are historic, not replicas. I'm not talking about the authenticity of the architecture, but of the "street life". That second part is most definitely artificial. Real street life doesn't have 4 bars on every block, and nothing else but restaurants and hotels. That's an entertainment district.

There was a time 5th Ave had an extremely active street life, in the late 19th to mid 20th centuries. And yes, Earp's saloon was a part of that. But there's more to street life than bars, nightclubs, and fancy restaurants. 5th Ave was a place of finance, commerce, government, and residence. City Hall used to be on 5th Ave. The city's public dock, destination for all incoming trade ships, lay at its end. There were banks and general stores and small distributors lining the street from beginning to end. At any time of day you'd find the streets filled with people.

In the 1950s and 60s that all decayed away, as urban street life did in every major American city. The area admittedly had problems with prostitution and crime since the city was founded, but by the 70s it had decayed until that was all there was left. When Horton plaza knocked down a huge section of the city in the 1980s it became clear that left unchecked all city's historic architecture would be demolished eventually, so the concept of the Gaslamp Quarter was conceived. The city would forbid any outward changes in the buildings' historic architecture, and in return would waive many restrictions usually put on nightlife establishments built there. It worked extremely well, the area was revitalized economically without needing to redevelop, but most of the buildings were gutted in the process of converting them into bars and clubs. So it forms a sort of shadow street life, with and expanded nightlife and an anemic daylife, as anyone who's been on 5th Ave at 2pm on a weekday can tell you.

Great writing. Had me engaged the whole way through. If I may throw my measely couple of cents in regards to what constitutes a thriving street life, I'd say it will only work if there is a central hangout area (ie plazas in Latin America) and a ratio of 2:1 (residential:business). The more people live in areas with diverse *consumer* businesses, the more people will desire to spend time outside, in an inviting environment. By inviting environment I don't simply mean the beauty of the area (though it is important), but more specifically the ability to take care of anything and everything within walking distance. As soon as a car is required to achieve a need, that's when street presence dies.

PS. Not a city developer, just my logic.

Looks like Pinnace Project moving again
 

11th and E is finally rising again. Any insiders have any news on the little Italy towers? 1st and Beech, Alexan Little Italy, and the Parking Garage tower on Kettner? How about the California Theatre... All these buildings we are just waiting on I guess. Not much action :shrug:

https://flic.kr/p/2hMxKwT
https://flic.kr/p/2hMxKwH

Not sure if I like the look of the building from the front

Hmmmm doesnt look like the photos posted, trying again with a different method.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b81ca2ac_c.jpg20191117_144810 by kevinbeatty, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...ee53c4f2_c.jpg20191117_145617 by kevinbeatty, on Flickr

Yikes. I did not recognize the building from the front lol. Much better in profile...

Thank you very much for the photo updates on that naval project in Downtown. I have to be honest I am not that excited about this project however it does add to DT density when driving through. I hate that lame height restriction too that the FAA imposed on the DT of SD. I used to live on 14th and Market for a while and really love DT San Diego. I am looking forward to more highrise development DT. If anyone can post some areial photos of DT that would be AWESOME!

The color looks more white than the pinkish stone colors in the renders

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b4084f3c_c.jpg2019-11-18_03-43-06 by kevinbeatty, on Flickr

It looks nothing like the renderings directly from MPG website. Glass down the middle of the real one, slanted roof and white cladding. I'm not a fan, but luckily it's not the focus point of the project.