SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Downtown & City of Portland (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=192)
-   -   Rose Quarter Redevelopment (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152548)

eric cantona Aug 28, 2015 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7145824)
Well that site is stalling till 2023 then. It'll be nearly 30 years old by then. Which is ancient in arena terms..

I will side with the historians and architects who understand design quality, and what that means to our collective culture. personally, I think the MC is a gorgeous building and needs to be preserved. but I think we all need to listen to the experts about what should be preserved.

arguing about the lifespan of the Moda Center and when it will need to be replaced disgusts me on two primary levels:
  1. the building and site design are horrific from an urban design standpoint. it could be anywhere, and has all the appearance of a suburban development. gross. if anything should be demolished it should be that. but...
  1. that said, from a sustainability standpoint replacing it with something else because it's "out of date" is a symptom of why we, as a society, find ourselves in a predicament over too much carbon in the atmosphere (even if it is a shitty suburbanesque development). don't like something? tear it down and build something better. don't like the city? build big-ass freeways and drive your fat ass all over the place.

fuck that shit. time to face the music, America. just because you don't like something is not a reason to tear it down. repurpose, restore, re-something this and other built structures. there is value embedded in the MC. it's time to bring it out.

MarkDaMan Aug 28, 2015 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 7146001)
I will side with the historians and architects who understand design quality, and what that means to our collective culture. personally, I think the MC is a gorgeous building and needs to be preserved. but I think we all need to listen to the experts about what should be preserved.

arguing about the lifespan of the Moda Center and when it will need to be replaced disgusts me on two primary levels:
  1. the building and site design are horrific from an urban design standpoint. it could be anywhere, and has all the appearance of a suburban development. gross. if anything should be demolished it should be that. but...
  1. that said, from a sustainability standpoint replacing it with something else because it's "out of date" is a symptom of why we, as a society, find ourselves in a predicament over too much carbon in the atmosphere (even if it is a shitty suburbanesque development). don't like something? tear it down and build something better. don't like the city? build big-ass freeways and drive your fat ass all over the place.

fuck that shit. time to face the music, America. just because you don't like something is not a reason to tear it down. repurpose, restore, re-something this and other built structures. there is value embedded in the MC. it's time to bring it out.

I agree with you 100% accept for that last part. Consultant after consultant after city council after city council have not be able to find a financially viable use for the MC. I'd love for Portland to be a trendsetter and find a use that if not financially viable, would at least not be a major burden to manage/maintain. However cities across America have torn down these old arenas because there really isn't a viable use. The "theater of the clouds" at Moda can produce an intimate 10,000 seat venue that is still more enjoyable to see a concert at than the old MC.

I love the exterior of the MC and would love to see the space well used, but after we lost the competition (to SALEM!) to turn it into a Kroc Community Center in 2004, I haven't seen a decent proposal come forward since. If something doesn't happen soon, I'm afraid it's going to get those big ole "U" signs over the doorways and it will just sit there, on valuable inner-city land, and rot.

innovativethinking Aug 28, 2015 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 7146001)
I will side with the historians and architects who understand design quality, and what that means to our collective culture. personally, I think the MC is a gorgeous building and needs to be preserved. but I think we all need to listen to the experts about what should be preserved.

arguing about the lifespan of the Moda Center and when it will need to be replaced disgusts me on two primary levels:
  1. the building and site design are horrific from an urban design standpoint. it could be anywhere, and has all the appearance of a suburban development. gross. if anything should be demolished it should be that. but...
  1. that said, from a sustainability standpoint replacing it with something else because it's "out of date" is a symptom of why we, as a society, find ourselves in a predicament over too much carbon in the atmosphere (even if it is a shitty suburbanesque development). don't like something? tear it down and build something better. don't like the city? build big-ass freeways and drive your fat ass all over the place.

fuck that shit. time to face the music, America. just because you don't like something is not a reason to tear it down. repurpose, restore, re-something this and other built structures. there is value embedded in the MC. it's time to bring it out.


If historic Yankee stadium can be demo'd then this building certainly can. Mind you nobody outside of the Portland area has even heard of this arena but we treat this thing like some sort of modern marvel admired around the world. This thing is a huge money pit when the city as a more viable and larger arena next door that generates money.

We have to move on people, to the so called handful of architectural historians fighting to keep this, one message for ya stop being so damn nostalgic and help create a new modern marvel.

The whole idea of renovating the white elephant that is Memorial Coliseum is borderline ridiculous. No other city of any degree of sophistication would even attempt such a thing.


There just isn't a lot you can do with the dump. The concourses are always going to be too small, there are never going to be enough restrooms or concession stands and it's always going to be an uncomfortable, behind-the-times arena.

This city will never build a replacement, though. And a bunch of architects, many of whom probably haven't been inside the cold old barn in their lives, got the thing on the historic register, as if it's a tourist attraction. That was a cruel joke on this town.

Trust me, though. If Portland persists in the notion of remodeling it, it's eventually going to cost even more than the new, revised estimates of around 40 million. And making it a "green" building? Yeah, good luck with that.

eric cantona Aug 28, 2015 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7146134)
If historic Yankee stadium can be demo'd then this building certainly can. Mind you nobody outside of the Portland area has even heard of this arena but we treat this thing like some sort of modern marvel admired around the world. This thing is a huge money pit when the city as a more viable and larger arena next door that generates money.

We have to move on people, to the so called handful of architectural historians fighting to keep this, one message for ya stop being so damn nostalgic and help create a new modern marvel.

The whole idea of renovating the white elephant that is Memorial Coliseum is borderline ridiculous. No other city of any degree of sophistication would even attempt such a thing.


There just isn't a lot you can do with the dump. The concourses are always going to be too small, there are never going to be enough restrooms or concession stands and it's always going to be an uncomfortable, behind-the-times arena.

This city will never build a replacement, though. And a bunch of architects, many of whom probably haven't been inside the cold old barn in their lives, got the thing on the historic register, as if it's a tourist attraction. That was a cruel joke on this town.

Trust me, though. If Portland persists in the notion of remodeling it, it's eventually going to cost even more than the new, revised estimates of around 40 million. And making it a "green" building? Yeah, good luck with that.

apparently, I am talking to a wall. "green"? the greenest building are those that are already standing.

mhays Aug 28, 2015 11:03 PM

What if it requires more resources to keep it than not keep it?

What about land as a finite resource? If 1,000 homes can go there instead, isn't that better? With additional benefits to commute patterns?

I categorically disagree on architects being the arbiters of what's worth saving. We don't let our barbers have final say. Architects have a lot to add on the topic, but so does the general public.

58rhodes Aug 28, 2015 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 7146284)
What if it requires more resources to keep it than not keep it?

What about land as a finite resource? If 1,000 homes can go there instead, isn't that better? With additional benefits to commute patterns?

I categorically disagree on architects being the arbiters of what's worth saving. We don't let our barbers have final say. Architects have a lot to add on the topic, but so does the general public.

homes are not going to go there.

to a lot of us old farts this building means something--it is a MEMORIAL
if there were a demand for this land it would have been gone by now

plenty of crappy buildings and parking lots left for development

leave it alone until we can turn it into a Memorial Stadium, its not losing nearly as much as other problems in the city.

$55Gs a year LOL

urbanlife Aug 29, 2015 5:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58rhodes (Post 7146340)
homes are not going to go there.

to a lot of us old farts this building means something--it is a MEMORIAL
if there were a demand for this land it would have been gone by now

plenty of crappy buildings and parking lots left for development

leave it alone until we can turn it into a Memorial Stadium, its not losing nearly as much as other problems in the city.

$55Gs a year LOL

An actual memorial means more, this building has a poorly designed one tucked in a sunken corner. I would rather see Portland have a better memorial dedicated to the men and women who have served this country.

tworivers Aug 29, 2015 6:14 AM

I'm honestly surprised by the number of people here calling for demolition. Haven't we learned our lesson with our shortsighted removal of "obsolete" buildings? It's the reason why we have piles of cast iron rotting away in warehouses. Indeed, sadly, it's the reason why MC and Moda Center even exist in their current form. About the only way you could get my agreement on the wisdom of tearing down MC is if we demolish the entire Rose Quarter (including the hideous Moda Center and PPS building), reconnect the street grid that was once there, and build plenty of high-density mixed-use buildings with a focus on affordable and workforce housing. Might as well throw in reparations to the African American community that was once concentrated there and up Williams/Vancouver as well.

65MAX Aug 29, 2015 6:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhays (Post 7146284)
What if it requires more resources to keep it than not keep it?

But it doesn't. It would cost millions just to demolish the MC, but it's only costing the city 55K a year to maintain it as-is. It would be beyond irresponsible to destroy an important architecturally significant building (most people don't understand its significance, including a few people on here apparently) just because a few people don't like how it looks. What a complete waste of money, not to mention the destruction of a big piece of Portland's history. It's like eric said, tearing down an existing building is never as "green" as renovating or repurposing it.

It may take another decade or two to find a suitable use for the MC, but there are a ton of possibilities, and it's costing us next to nothing to wait for the right solution. In the meantime, let's concentrate on getting rid of the acres of parking and putting in some high density mixed use to accommodate the 100's of thousands of people moving here in the next 10 years.

urbanlife Aug 29, 2015 7:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers (Post 7146611)
I'm honestly surprised by the number of people here calling for demolition. Haven't we learned our lesson with our shortsighted removal of "obsolete" buildings? It's the reason why we have piles of cast iron rotting away in warehouses. Indeed, sadly, it's the reason why MC and Moda Center even exist in their current form. About the only way you could get my agreement on the wisdom of tearing down MC is if we demolish the entire Rose Quarter (including the hideous Moda Center and PPS building), reconnect the street grid that was once there, and build plenty of high-density mixed-use buildings with a focus on affordable and workforce housing. Might as well throw in reparations to the African American community that was once concentrated there and up Williams/Vancouver as well.

I would have to say you are comparing apples to oranges. The buildings in oldtown that were torn down could have easily be renovated and reused for today's market. An old arena that has a specific architectural style will always be an arena. If you remove the bowl inside to re-purpose the building, you lose the reason for preserving this architectural piece to begin with.

Basically it is just an old arena that will always be an arena until it is torn down and something else is built there. I use to be for keeping the building, but over the past 10 years nothing has panned out for saving the building and giving it a purpose other than being a small, less needed arena.

65MAX Aug 29, 2015 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7146134)
If historic Yankee stadium can be demo'd then this building certainly can. Mind you nobody outside of the Portland area has even heard of this arena but we treat this thing like some sort of modern marvel admired around the world. This thing is a huge money pit when the city as a more viable and larger arena next door that generates money.

We have to move on people, to the so called handful of architectural historians fighting to keep this, one message for ya stop being so damn nostalgic and help create a new modern marvel.

The whole idea of renovating the white elephant that is Memorial Coliseum is borderline ridiculous. No other city of any degree of sophistication would even attempt such a thing.


There just isn't a lot you can do with the dump. The concourses are always going to be too small, there are never going to be enough restrooms or concession stands and it's always going to be an uncomfortable, behind-the-times arena.

This city will never build a replacement, though. And a bunch of architects, many of whom probably haven't been inside the cold old barn in their lives, got the thing on the historic register, as if it's a tourist attraction. That was a cruel joke on this town.

Trust me, though. If Portland persists in the notion of remodeling it, it's eventually going to cost even more than the new, revised estimates of around 40 million. And making it a "green" building? Yeah, good luck with that.

So much for "innovative thinking". I'm guessing you would also demolish the Pantheon and Coliseum in Rome and the Pyramids at Giza. After all, they're just white elephants, no useful purpose, relics that have outlived their time. They're just taking up valuable space, right?

So let's say you succeed in tearing down the MC, then what? Build an even bigger box? Then what, tear down Moda Center? Then 50 years from now tear down the new bigger box because it's (OMG) old?!? And so on, and so on. Doesn't it make more sense to reuse the box we already have? I mean, seriously, it's a blank slate. It could be a market, a performing arts center, a small business incubator, a museum. It could be almost anything with a little bit of imagination, or dare I say, innovative thinking.

65MAX Aug 29, 2015 7:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 7146641)
I would have to say you are comparing apples to oranges. The buildings in oldtown that were torn down could have easily be renovated and reused for today's market.

Don't you think the MC has a lot more possibilties for renovation and reuse than those Old Town gems that were destroyed? See my above comments to the ironically named "innovative thinking". I would say some people here should be thinking outside the box, but in this case, they should think about what could go inside the box. A media center, a corporate HQ, a botanical garden or even a marijuana test garden, just like our Rose Test Garden, but for the new millennium. The possibilities are endless. Hell, I thought we were supposed to be a creative mecca. You'd never know it from the lack of imagination some people have here.

rsbear Aug 29, 2015 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65MAX (Post 7146649)
So much for "innovative thinking". I'm guessing you would also demolish the Pantheon and Coliseum in Rome and the Pyramids at Giza. After all, they're just white elephants, no useful purpose, relics that have outlived their time. They're just taking up valuable space, right?

So let's say you succeed in tearing down the MC, then what? Build an even bigger box? Then what, tear down Moda Center? Then 50 years from now tear down the new bigger box because it's (OMG) old?!? And so on, and so on. Doesn't it make more sense to reuse the box we already have? I mean, seriously, it's a blank slate. It could be a market, a performing arts center, a small business incubator, a museum. It could be almost anything with a little bit of imagination, or dare I say, innovative thinking.

Well done.

58rhodes Aug 29, 2015 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 7146580)
An actual memorial means more, this building has a poorly designed one tucked in a sunken corner. I would rather see Portland have a better memorial dedicated to the men and women who have served this country.

I actually like the coliseum--sorry I dont share your opinion.
I think the Moda center is ugly.

urbanlife Aug 29, 2015 4:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58rhodes (Post 7146763)
I actually like the coliseum--sorry I dont share your opinion.
I think the Moda center is ugly.

Architecturally the MC is a beautiful piece of architecture, though it is not what I would consider a memorial. The actually memorial is in a sunken plaza that feels neglected and not one people visit.

Veterans deserve a better memorial than that.

urbanlife Aug 29, 2015 4:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65MAX (Post 7146652)
Don't you think the MC has a lot more possibilties for renovation and reuse than those Old Town gems that were destroyed? See my above comments to the ironically named "innovative thinking". I would say some people here should be thinking outside the box, but in this case, they should think about what could go inside the box. A media center, a corporate HQ, a botanical garden or even a marijuana test garden, just like our Rose Test Garden, but for the new millennium. The possibilities are endless. Hell, I thought we were supposed to be a creative mecca. You'd never know it from the lack of imagination some people have here.

So what could the MC be reused for that doesn't involve removing the bowl inside? Being a creative mecca doesn't mean we have to hold on to every thing. I am all for saving the building if there is a use for it, and right now I think it is doing just that, but I wouldn't care too much if it was torn down either.

innovativethinking Aug 29, 2015 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65MAX (Post 7146649)
So much for "innovative thinking". I'm guessing you would also demolish the Pantheon and Coliseum in Rome and the Pyramids at Giza. After all, they're just white elephants, no useful purpose, relics that have outlived their time. They're just taking up valuable space, right?

So let's say you succeed in tearing down the MC, then what? Build an even bigger box? Then what, tear down Moda Center? Then 50 years from now tear down the new bigger box because it's (OMG) old?!? And so on, and so on. Doesn't it make more sense to reuse the box we already have? I mean, seriously, it's a blank slate. It could be a market, a performing arts center, a small business incubator, a museum. It could be almost anything with a little bit of imagination, or dare I say, innovative thinking.


Any other major city in America would have long ago blown the thing up. Any other municipality would shake its head at the absurdity of constructing a second basketball arena at the foot of its archaic and outdated predecessor, and then, keeping both facilities. That Memorial Coliseum was successfully thrust into the National Registry of Historic places as a strategy play by those who had a sentimental attachment to it says as much about us as the building itself.

A couple of years ago, the city wisely put on hold plans for a Memorial Coliseum maintenance upgrade. I'm momentarily thankful for that, but hoping, too, that we someday soon come to our senses when it comes to a piece of real estate that could mean so much more to Portland if it were converted into a more useful venue, while also keeping the black granite walls etched with the names of those who gave their lives for our nation.

It feels hollow that children don't walk past that wall on a regular basis, running their fingertips on the names of veterans. It feels silly that the building is used for weddings, some minor-league hockey and high school graduation ceremonies. Mostly since the Blazers left in 1995, it has sat empty, costing the city maintenance and utilities and headaches.

Until more ppl speak up, the city is complicit in this hokey little small-town, double-arena mess. The millions and millions in public funds potentially spent on the upgrade project would be wasted going anywhere but back into the general fund. The city knows it, and has tabled the issue. Even the historical architects who protected the building must be giggling over how easily this has all been pulled off, mostly because the citizens and taxpayers are too soft-hearted to do what's necessary which is knock down walls.

Anything there but that money pit would be worthwhile like a high-rise with condominiums and breathtaking view of the Willamette River. Maybe some prefer restaurants and shopping. I want sports. Baseball, football, whatever. But I think we can all agree what shouldn't happen with the Memorial Coliseum: It shouldn't sit in its current state, eroding, and becoming a symbol of apathy and indifference. That we can agree on.


The building is polarizing that's for sure. But taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for a senseless renovation. The Blazers shouldn't have to exist in the shadow of a useless venue. Veterans should have a building in their honor they can visit, and celebrate.

Any other city would have solved this with sticks of dynamite long time ago.

2oh1 Aug 29, 2015 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 7146174)
apparently, I am talking to a wall. "green"? the greenest building are those that are already standing.

Not if they waste energy to the extent that Memorial Coliseum does.

58rhodes Aug 29, 2015 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1 (Post 7146954)
Not if they waste energy to the extent that Memorial Coliseum does.

this city wastes millions of dollars every month:slob:

58rhodes Aug 29, 2015 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7146848)
Any other major city in America would have long ago blown the thing up. Any other municipality would shake its head at the absurdity of constructing a second basketball arena at the foot of its archaic and outdated predecessor, and then, keeping both facilities. That Memorial Coliseum was successfully thrust into the National Registry of Historic places as a strategy play by those who had a sentimental attachment to it says as much about us as the building itself.

A couple of years ago, the city wisely put on hold plans for a Memorial Coliseum maintenance upgrade. I'm momentarily thankful for that, but hoping, too, that we someday soon come to our senses when it comes to a piece of real estate that could mean so much more to Portland if it were converted into a more useful venue, while also keeping the black granite walls etched with the names of those who gave their lives for our nation.

It feels hollow that children don't walk past that wall on a regular basis, running their fingertips on the names of veterans. It feels silly that the building is used for weddings, some minor-league hockey and high school graduation ceremonies. Mostly since the Blazers left in 1995, it has sat empty, costing the city maintenance and utilities and headaches.

Until more ppl speak up, the city is complicit in this hokey little small-town, double-arena mess. The millions and millions in public funds potentially spent on the upgrade project would be wasted going anywhere but back into the general fund. The city knows it, and has tabled the issue. Even the historical architects who protected the building must be giggling over how easily this has all been pulled off, mostly because the citizens and taxpayers are too soft-hearted to do what's necessary which is knock down walls.

Anything there but that money pit would be worthwhile like a high-rise with condominiums and breathtaking view of the Willamette River. Maybe some prefer restaurants and shopping. I want sports. Baseball, football, whatever. But I think we can all agree what shouldn't happen with the Memorial Coliseum: It shouldn't sit in its current state, eroding, and becoming a symbol of apathy and indifference. That we can agree on.


The building is polarizing that's for sure. But taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for a senseless renovation. The Blazers shouldn't have to exist in the shadow of a useless venue. Veterans should have a building in their honor they can visit, and celebrate.

Any other city would have solved this with sticks of dynamite long time ago.

so Portland sucks??--move to Seattle

innovativethinking Aug 29, 2015 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58rhodes (Post 7146961)
so Portland sucks??--move to Seattle

No. Portland sucks just on this particular issue. Other than that it's great! ;)

58rhodes Aug 29, 2015 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7146999)
No. Portland sucks just on this particular issue. Other than that it's great! ;)

Glad to hear that but the Coliseum is going to be around for some time :haha:

mhays Aug 30, 2015 5:53 AM

Someone said homes wouldn't go there. I don't know if the zoning allows housing, but if not it would be easy to change. Whether homes would do well in that location is a subjective question. But at minimum, land for affordable housing at a decent price is hard to come by. You could fit a ton of apartments there.

Commercial land is also a hot commodity in Portland. This site would be highly desired.

If you want to argue that this thing is worth saving (a mystery to me), that's separate from whether the land is worth something without it. That is has a lot of land value isn't debatable...land is worth a lot in Portland.

maccoinnich Aug 30, 2015 7:06 AM

There are plenty of places the City could build affordable housing before we need to talk about demolishing National Register listed buildings. In that neighborhood alone the City owns:
  • The half block at MLK / Holladay
  • The Inn at the Convention Center, which the PDC only bought with the intention to demolish
  • The temporary plaza at MLK & Pacific
  • The car parks serving the Moda Center / VMC
  • A portion of the surface car park in front of the Crowne Plaza

Additionally Metro owns land NE MLK / Lloyd Blvd, south of the Convention Center.

innovativethinking Aug 30, 2015 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58rhodes (Post 7147052)
Glad to hear that but the Coliseum is going to be around for some time :haha:

Nah I doubt it

65MAX Aug 30, 2015 12:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 58rhodes
Glad to hear that but the Coliseum is going to be around for some time



Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7147366)
Nah I doubt it

You can "doubt it" all you want, but obviously you don't understand how the National Register works. And as mac says, there is a TON of vacant and underutilized land in that immediate area that is available for providing much needed housing and commercial development. There's even a plan for developing an entire mixed use neighborhood around the MC and Moda Center that has yet to be realized. It'll take a good 20 years at least before that land is filled in, and by then, a suitable use for the MC will have surfaced and it will remain right where it is.

So your (disturbingly violent) dreams of blowing up the MC with dynamite are, thankfully, only in your head.

Oh, and blowing up a GLASS building with dynamite.... incredibly stupid.

65MAX Aug 30, 2015 1:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric cantona
apparently, I am talking to a wall. "green"? the greenest building are those that are already standing.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 2oh1 (Post 7146954)
Not if they waste energy to the extent that Memorial Coliseum does.

You think those Old Town buildings were energy efficient when they were built? Of course not, but they're still worth saving. It's easy enough to make ANY building energy efficient. Hell, you can even sheath the entire SE and SW facades and the roof of the MC in transparent photovoltaic panels. It could produce its own electricity.

Just because a building may not be currently energy efficient is not a reason to tear it down.

58rhodes Aug 30, 2015 2:42 PM

There's is lots and lots of land that is underutilized near there and all over town. the north part of the LLoyd district is still mostly parking lot.
To me the MMC is a part of Portlands charm.

58rhodes Aug 30, 2015 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65MAX (Post 7147387)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric cantona
apparently, I am talking to a wall. "green"? the greenest building are those that are already standing.




You think those Old Town buildings were energy efficient when they were built? Of course not, but they're still worth saving. It's easy enough to make ANY building energy efficient. Hell, you can even sheath the entire SE and SW facades and the roof of the MC in transparent photovoltaic panels. It could produce its own electricity.

Just because a building may not be currently energy efficient is not a reason to tear it down.

Bravo!!

babs Aug 30, 2015 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65MAX (Post 7147387)
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric cantona
apparently, I am talking to a wall. "green"? the greenest building are those that are already standing.




You think those Old Town buildings were energy efficient when they were built? Of course not, but they're still worth saving. It's easy enough to make ANY building energy efficient. Hell, you can even sheath the entire SE and SW facades and the roof of the MC in transparent photovoltaic panels. It could produce its own electricity.

Just because a building may not be currently energy efficient is not a reason to tear it down.

To truly make the MC energy efficient, all that glass would likely need to be double pane. That can't be cheap.

58rhodes Aug 30, 2015 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 7147532)
To truly make the MC energy efficient, all that glass would likely need to be double pane. That can't be cheap.

running the city of Portland isnt cheap --and it isnt efficient either --welcome to the world-- leave the coliseum we have bigger fish to fry

zilfondel Aug 30, 2015 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7146848)
Any other major city in America would have long ago blown the thing up.

...

Any other city would have solved this with sticks of dynamite long time ago.

And this is a good thing...?

Quote:

Then what are we to do about the past? Sacrifice it to the conventional wisdom of amiable evasion and commercial viability? Bow to the inevitability of destruction and loss? Continue to exploit and distort it, turning it into a crude caricature and crowd-pleaser while pointing piously to what we have "saved?"
-excerpt from The Unreal America

65MAX Aug 30, 2015 7:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 7147532)
To truly make the MC energy efficient, all that glass would likely need to be double pane. That can't be cheap.

You know what else isn't cheap.... seismically upgrading all those unreinforces masonry buildings built in the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. Again, not a reason to demolish them. In most cases, it's almost always cheaper to renovate and upgrade a building than to knock it down and build new.

65MAX Aug 30, 2015 7:55 PM

Also, I find it incredibly amusing that some of the same people who want to tear down the MC are also in love, love, love with the new Apple store downtown. They don't even realize that the MC was the precursor that made buildings like that possible. Ah, the hypocrisy.

urbanlife Aug 30, 2015 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 65MAX (Post 7147703)
Also, I find it incredibly amusing that some of the same people who want to tear down the MC are also in love, love, love with the new Apple store downtown. They don't even realize that the MC was the precursor that made buildings like that possible. Ah, the hypocrisy.

I think the new Apple store is a waste of a half block in the middle of downtown. The thing with MC is what is the point of it? Even our minor league hockey team plays a good portion of their games in the Moda Center.

I would like to see the building have a good new use for it that doesn't require changing the bowl in the glass box look of it. Unfortunately we have yet to see any good uses for this building.

Derek Aug 30, 2015 9:05 PM

It's a waste of a half block yet it's arguably one of the most active half blocks in Portland? Come on, give me a break. That street was completely dead before that store came along.

urbanlife Aug 30, 2015 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 7147764)
It's a waste of a half block yet it's arguably one of the most active half blocks in Portland? Come on, give me a break. That street was completely dead before that store came along.

Because it is the Apple store. A 20 story building with the Apple store on the first floor would have been just as active.

Derek Aug 30, 2015 9:14 PM

A 20 story building would not have fit on the small sliver of the block that the Apple Store occupies unless you somehow combined the existing 20 story building that's there with it.

urbanlife Aug 30, 2015 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 7147776)
A 20 story building would not have fit on the small sliver of the block that the Apple Store occupies unless you somehow combined the existing 20 story building that's there with it.

True, that was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but a 4-5 story building would have fit there just fine. The Apple store would have generated as much activity no matter where it was downtown. When it was in the basement, it was still an active store.

Derek Aug 30, 2015 9:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 7147795)
True, that was a bit of an exaggeration on my part, but a 4-5 story building would have fit there just fine. The Apple store would have generated as much activity no matter where it was downtown. When it was in the basement, it was still an active store.

I see what you're saying now. We should be grateful it isn't in that basement any more though. All of the foot traffic it generated is now being funneled onto the streets instead of underground. I wish more stores would vacate the basement for street locations (I'm looking at you Victoria's Secret). Any ways, we should make a Pioneer Place hatred thread! :P

Back to the Rose Quarter!

2oh1 Aug 31, 2015 4:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 7147797)
I see what you're saying now. We should be grateful it isn't in that basement any more though. All of the foot traffic it generated is now being funneled onto the streets instead of underground. I wish more stores would vacate the basement for street locations (I'm looking at you Victoria's Secret). Any ways, we should make a Pioneer Place hatred thread! :P

Back to the Rose Quarter!

I have to assume it costs more to rent a space at street level - but you're absolutely right. The Apple Store moving outside of the mall made a huge difference for foot traffic in the area.

I still can't believe the Yard House made the entrance to their restaurant inside the mall rather than outside. I have yet to meet anyone who has been there that wasn't confused about how to find the place. My god, they're right next door to the Apple Store. What! Were! They! Thinking!?

maccoinnich Sep 1, 2015 7:25 AM

Quote:

City explores demolition, $145M indoor track, remodeled arena options for Veterans Memorial Coliseum (Renderings)

http://media.bizj.us/view/img/6873232/trackfloor.jpg

After a year of studying potential uses for Veterans Memorial Coliseum, Portland leaders will begin exploring three options that could define the structure's future.
The options, presented in the Veterans Memorial Coliseum Options Study, are:
  • Continue current operations after a temporary closure.
  • Permanently close and redevelop the site.
  • "Renovate/Remodel/Transform" the structure..
For the latter option, five different scenarios are presented for the public's perusal. Those options include adding a “dynamic floor system” that accommodates an indoor track and field facility and a broad array of other uses, as well as a "covered open-air arena." The former option would cost the most of any of the five ideas, at $115 million to $145 million. The latter option is the second-most expensive, at $95.2 million.
...continues at the Portland Business Journal.

mhays Sep 1, 2015 3:47 PM

Here's a good barometer for those projects: Would they happen if they had to be built new, for the same prices?

Usually these discussions (which recur all the time, from Houston to Seattle) are fans of a building grasping at what appear to be straws.

For example, I can believe that an indoor track would be nice, but (wild guess) I'd be surprised if that was more than six figures in annual ticket revenue, unless a major championship came to town.

maccoinnich May 31, 2016 7:47 PM

An email I just received from AIA Portland:

Quote:

Historic Press Conference and Celebration
at the Veterans Memorial Coliseum
Thursday, June 9 | 10:30AM


AIA Portland members and associates are invited to a historic press conference and celebration on Thursday, June 9 at 10:30am at Veterans Memorial Coliseum, with a special announcement from the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

Please join members of Portland City Council, representatives of local veterans organizations, the Rose Festival Foundation, and the Friends of Memorial Coliseum for this special announcement.


ORNative May 31, 2016 8:03 PM

Hmmmmmm - curious, the Rose Festival Foundation?

innovativethinking May 31, 2016 8:19 PM

Well probably something about the Rose Festival since it starts up around that time

babs May 31, 2016 9:16 PM

Maybe a new event is being placed there. If the MC was being refurbished, they would probably have members of the Winterhawks there.

maccoinnich Jun 1, 2016 12:51 AM

A friend of mine who works in historic preservation thinks that the National Trust for Historic Preservation is going to name it one of their "National Treasures".

65MAX Jun 1, 2016 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich (Post 7459085)
A friend of mine who works in historic preservation thinks that the National Trust for Historic Preservation is going to name it one of their "National Treasures".

Yes, I heard a similar rumor. I hope that's the case.

BlazerBeav Jun 1, 2016 2:52 PM

Honest question - what good would come from that? It will continue to be a derelict building without significant investment - and seeing as how we can't even get work done on the roads without a new, specific tax, does anyone honestly foresee that happening?


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:54 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.