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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

thewave46 Jan 31, 2022 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9519880)
The UK is requiring airlines to use a minimum 70% of their slots this summer, meaning those routes will likely have to operate in some capacity otherwise AC/WS will risk losing those slots.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...r-summer-2022/

I wonder if demand remains soft, they might be able to use the 737 MAX to keep the slot allocation but not run an expensive widebody to London.

A used slot is a used slot, regardless of the plane.

thenoflyzone Jan 31, 2022 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9520178)
I wonder if demand remains soft, they might be able to use the 737 MAX to keep the slot allocation but not run an expensive widebody to London.

A used slot is a used slot, regardless of the plane.

I don't think demand will be soft next summer. People are eager to travel. Demand will bounce back quickly in the coming months.

I suspect AC/WS/TS will use up all their slots at European airports without a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop2047 (Post 9520071)
That is a surprise. Fredericton Airport was closed (for the most part) from Jan 23, 2021 - Jun 26, 2021. with no major carriers.

Why is it a surprise? Demand was soft in the beginning of 2021, and then picked up exponentially in the summer. As an example, YHZ handled more traffic in the month of Aug 2021 alone than Jan-July combined.

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpre...-pre-pandemic/

With the current slowdown due to omicron, it should be the same situation this year, only better (hopefully !)

casper Feb 1, 2022 4:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9520178)
I wonder if demand remains soft, they might be able to use the 737 MAX to keep the slot allocation but not run an expensive widebody to London.

A used slot is a used slot, regardless of the plane.

If they need to use up slots they can always do tag-on flights. These are not overly popular these days but it is a lot more cost effective to add a tag-on to Rome or Paris that an extra flight all the way from Canada.

nname Feb 1, 2022 4:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9520515)
I don't think demand will be soft next summer. People are eager to travel. Demand will bounce back quickly in the coming months.

I suspect AC/WS/TS will use up all their slots at European airports without a problem.

Seems from the current schedule, AC is planning to uses about 91% of their slot. So they can still afford to cut some more services.

Maybe YVR/YUL to LHR will go back down to 1x daily, or YYZ will go from 4 to 3x daily this summer...

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9520895)
If they need to use up slots they can always do tag-on flights. These are not overly popular these days but it is a lot more cost effective to add a tag-on to Rome or Paris that an extra flight all the way from Canada.

This will depend on the timing of the slot. If the landing and take off slot are 4 or 5 hours apart, then there will be a super long layover at LHR...

Dominion301 Feb 2, 2022 8:48 PM

From JakeLRS from the YOW, forum, Swoop are expanding at YOW before even launching service in April:

Quote:

Swoop expands offerings from Ottawa

Previously Announced:
Edmonton (YEG) | Up to 5x Weekly | 25APR22

Newly Announced:
Abbotsford (YXX) | Up to 4x Weekly | 25APR22
Halifax (YHX) | 1x Daily | 19JUN22
Winnipeg (YWG) | Up to 4x Weekly | 19JUN22

Flair offers YXX 2x weekly, YEG 4x weekly, YHX daily, YWG 2x weekly.

There is going to be some serious competition on that YHZ route....
AC, WS, F8, WO, and PD
Note: YXX on W0 is 1-stop thru YEG. F8 fly YOW-YXX nonstop.

Calfan12 Feb 3, 2022 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9522970)
From JakeLRS from the YOW, forum, Swoop are expanding at YOW before even launching service in April:



Note: YXX on W0 is 1-stop thru YEG. F8 fly YOW-YXX nonstop.

Interesting not surprising.

Basically with Swoop doing more flying for Edmonton,Ottawa & Winnipeg etc
will free up some WestJet planes ✈️ to use at its 3 busiest Hubs in Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver & when WS officially announces its Summer 2022 schedules YYC, YYZ,YVR are going to benefit from it with additional frequencies/ new seasonal routes too.

Rhb Feb 3, 2022 1:55 AM

Swoop as of today does not fly to Ottawa.
Westjet 3 busiest hubs are Calgary, Toronto, and Vancouver. What are the others?

Dominion301 Feb 3, 2022 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhb (Post 9523283)
Swoop as of today does not fly to Ottawa.
Westjet 3 busiest hubs are Calgary, Toronto, and Vancouver. What are the others?

YEG would be 4th, YWG 5th, then YLW and then probably YHZ, YOW, YUL, YYJ, YXE, YQR, then all the rest. I doubt any US station has more capacity than YQR, even LAS and MCO.

Rhb Feb 3, 2022 1:04 PM

My point about Westjet 3 busiest hubs yyz/yyc/yvr is that they only have 3 hubs.
Everything else is focus city’s and destinations.
Sorry for any misunderstandings 🙂.

peytol Feb 3, 2022 3:43 PM

I have to wonder how long Flair can last at this rate, I have been their getting ads for free airfare; now it looks like you can travel with your sports equipment for no cost. So not only no revenue off their ticket, but giving away their ancillary revenue also.

esquire Feb 3, 2022 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peytol (Post 9523663)
I have to wonder how long Flair can last at this rate, I have been their getting ads for free airfare; now it looks like you can travel with your sports equipment for no cost. So not only no revenue off their ticket, but giving away their ancillary revenue also.

I find it incredible that Flair has survived to this point in the pandemic. I thought they'd have been toast by May 2020.

peytol Feb 3, 2022 8:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9523691)
I find it incredible that Flair has survived to this point in the pandemic. I thought they'd have been toast by May 2020.

Agreed, really makes me wonder how they will make it in the long run with the huge debt load they will have once things really pick up again.

hehehe Feb 3, 2022 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peytol (Post 9524130)
Agreed, really makes me wonder how they will make it in the long run with the huge debt load they will have once things really pick up again.

Interestingly on the airliners.net thread for Flair there's people saying Flair is very successful due to its rapid growth and its cancellations/delays are exaggerated :haha:

whatnext Feb 4, 2022 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9523691)
I find it incredible that Flair has survived to this point in the pandemic. I thought they'd have been toast by May 2020.

See my post upthread. Flair seems to be less an airline than a scheme to pay huge interest on loans to a private equity firm:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=12501

Dominion301 Feb 4, 2022 1:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9524372)
See my post upthread. Flair seems to be less an airline than a scheme to pay huge interest on loans to a private equity firm:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=12501

But therein lies the catch 22. They (777 Partners) as a lessor need a place to put some of those MAXes. Time will tell if they survive in the long run.

esquire Feb 4, 2022 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9524372)
See my post upthread. Flair seems to be less an airline than a scheme to pay huge interest on loans to a private equity firm:

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/sho...ostcount=12501

Now that you mention it, rumours about foreign control have been dogging them from the start. I recall when they were still called NewLeaf, they brought on board a group of First Nations as investors and there were wild rumours around Winnipeg about foreign money being funneled in through FN casinos.

It kind of reminds me of the crazy startup era for Flair/NewLeaf. The local law firm that had NewLeaf as a client somehow convinced the airline to handle all their startup regulatory work despite the fact that they had no airline clients and no real experience in the area, leading to lengthy delays to the planned start of their operation as the lawyers figured out what to do. And yet somehow they are still around.

Dominion301 Feb 4, 2022 4:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9524783)
Now that you mention it, rumours about foreign control have been dogging them from the start. I recall when they were still called NewLeaf, they brought on board a group of First Nations as investors and there were wild rumours around Winnipeg about foreign money being funneled in through FN casinos.

It kind of reminds me of the crazy startup era for Flair/NewLeaf. The local law firm that had NewLeaf as a client somehow convinced the airline to handle all their startup regulatory work despite the fact that they had no airline clients and no real experience in the area, leading to lengthy delays to the planned start of their operation as the lawyers figured out what to do. And yet somehow they are still around.

Flair says they're now 58% domestic owned I remember reading a few months ago. I think a lot of the myth of foreign ownership is their foreign creditors (i.e., debt). Debt is not equity and does not = ownership.

peytol Feb 4, 2022 6:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9524907)
Flair says they're now 58% domestic owned I remember reading a few months ago. I think a lot of the myth of foreign ownership is their foreign creditors (i.e., debt). Debt is not equity and does not = ownership.

The problem is 777 loaned them their massive high interest loan and is leasing them all their planes also; so its hard to imagine they are not calling the shots.

I don't think it would be hard to find somewhere else for those max's if flair did fold, especially with the price of fuel going the direction it is.

thenoflyzone Feb 5, 2022 2:03 PM

Started compiling 2021 passenger stats on wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_Canada#2021

Good to see some airports post YOY growth. YYC will most certainly be one as well. YEG will be close, but should as well.

Dominion301 Feb 5, 2022 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9526000)
Started compiling 2021 passenger stats on wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_Canada#2021

Good to see some airports post YOY growth. YYC will most certainly be one as well. YEG will be close, but should as well.

Not surprisingly YWG has temporarily surpassed YOW's traditional #6 spot. Also, look at how YYJ, normally 2-3 million pax behind YOW, YWG & YHZ is 400-600K behind. Weird times, but clearly shows the western airports have fared the least bad, largely due to geography and so little rail service.


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