i dont think any building will be going on next to the theater as it is surrounded by streets on all sides with the exception of 4th and B. While the building LOOKS really bad, I dont think its so close to collapse that anyone needs to worry about it. If the Theater remains as is, I don't think the revitalization project will stall at all.

While on the subject, I think that whole block could be used better. I think if anything, they should work with the owners of 4th and B and tear that ugly building down. They can just re-incorporate the club into whatever they decide to build there.

I know it was mentioned that the California Theater is historic and all, but I really can't think of any way to use the existing structure positively.

^a hotel i think is (or was) the plan for the theater...


(correct me if im wrong)

There are a lot of things which played a part... the plunge that many new restaurants took, the convention center expansion & surrounding hotels, the trolley service area expansion, etc

It all goes back to the amenities...people followed them...Petco was just another amenity albeit a large one. Staples is the posterchild for how a sports park isn't enough by itself

Horton Plaza......in a way, yes. But the redevelopers of DTSD had a big part in pushing a lot of seedy businesses out of town. That's the way a lot of people viewed San Diego in the 80s and 90s. A place for porn shops etc.

Let's not forget the Convention Center. I think this had equal, if not greater, impact than Horton Plaza.

thats true, i see your point:)

Given the location, I would make it a Mixed-Use tower. At least that's how I'd do it. Think about it, it's almost in the CBD, it's merging with the area that getting some new Residential Towers, there are no Major or first-class hotels around...it's in an excellent location which will be even better once the surrounding blocks are cleaned up. Ground level retail...an awesome club on the back side....That block could be worth A LOT!

^if only someone would take the time...:(

I used to go down to Cuban Cigar factory back in '97 and the area had already come a long way.

Anyone used to go to Little Havana?

^no...but 5th and Island reeks from all the smoke that comes out of place...

i didnt live here back then, only moved to SD in 2000. ive been to the real little havana though.

mmm....cigars..

i wish. thats one area that could use a turn around

I don't see that area (near the Civic Center) as being very attractive/lucrative to developers.

There are several other blocks along Market that seem to have much more upside.

The trolley tracks make a good sales pitch when you are selling mixed-use development (convenient transit) but I see them as a magnet for transients.

^thats why somebody needs to revamp it;)

thats the point of the C street redevelopment. to get rid of all the scum...both the buildings and the people...it could be a beautiful area if a little time and money was invested.

exactly :tup:

do you think Ross dress for less really fits in there?

cross dress for less? JK...no....is there a ross there? am i missing it somehow?

yeah...5th and C (approx...)...its just in a strange spot...

Of course it would be great if it was cleaned up. My point is that until it is profitable for private industry to do so, it won't happen unless it the City finances it.

^the City wants to do a lot of things...but where did thier money go? :shrug:

its kind of a catch 22 that they have to just GET OVER.

east village would not have been profitable for businesses if the city AND private industry would not have invested in it. but just because it was an area that seemed unprofitable, does that mean they should not invest?

I don't know how to answer that question. If private business want to speculate in the area, they can do it now. I imagine that the current owners of the California Theatre did that.

Once Petco Park was approved by the voters, private enterpise did speculate on East Village. The early developers who bought the land for less than $3-$5 million per acre probably did well. The current projects are still sitting there (Pep Boys, Yellow Cab site, Cosmo Square, Strata, etc.) because they don't make sense to build. I don't think that they are going to get built until they are profitable. In hindsight, these owners (along with their equity/debt partners) would probably say that they should not have "invested" in these projects.

Yes, there is a lot of ambition in San Diego, isn't there? C Street. Library. North Embarcadero Plan. Historic SD Police Station. Fiesta Island. The only thing removed from the list has been the renovation/redevelopment of Qualcomm!!! What's up with that?

The C Street Master Plan has been in the paper every so often, but never front page material. Cost... estimated to be around $100million. Could end up being less. Could be more? CCDC is working on the a plan. If you follow the recent stuff you'll learn that the blocks where stations are located are too short, or not big enough, to handle projected riderhip. Lots of trains are there during rush hours and that is where people work, obviously. The trolley is also transitioning to a lower-floor vehicle that can carry slightly more people, but the cars are a bit longer. The C Street master plan will try to create a revitalization for the street, yet also need to handle a lot of trolley service.

^i love the new trains:tup:

Yeah they are! I was motivated to dig up a photo and create an avatar of one, but of an older version. It's of a trolley at the Seaport Village station right next to the Brickyard cafe.

Here's a pic of a trolley on C Street from a couple years ago.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...0297-Civic.jpg

I doubt that. Considering the rate at which things are going up these days and the rate at which things are being purchased, I dont think that these areas aren't profitable. Things may be on hold in order to re-evaluate how to best make money in east village, but there is still plenty of land to develop and plenty of money to be made. The area is only getting better with the addition of the Library, Albertsons is done etc...more businesses are moving that way.

As far as C Street goes, what I was saying is that in order to make a smart investment, you have to be able to see the value in an area before it is apparent to everyone. You have to take into consideration what kind of money is going into the area, what kind of money surrounds the area and what kind of money could potentially come to the area. If I had the capital, I would definitely at least purchase the Theater and hold it.

ah, the newer ones are so sleek and shiny:tup:


i have never seen one downtown though (thats in service...ive seen a few out of service, heading for the trainyard...)i mainly see them in Mission Valley out to Santee...

A lot needs to be done, but when it's complete, the area will be up to par...where it should have been for a long time. I used to commute from Downtown to East County via Trolley several years ago and even then, there were A LOT of people getting onto those trains between India and Park. In addition to the offices that are in the area, you have all the new residential and also the College. The area is much deserving.

^hopefully the San Diegan nearing completion can jump start some revitilization a little...thats no dinky hotel!

Opposite view, low quality (sorry) 02-16-2004
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...leyStation.jpg

The newer trains cannot come downtown until the station platforms are raised.... 2" They are stuck in Mission Valley until so.

i guess they better get crackin on that C Street project then!

oh, i see...thank you:)

Amen;)

hahah, i took this June 2003. Funny....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...uctionSign.jpg

wow! how did you dig that up?

im looking through some old old photos i took back in the day

You know what... the C Street stations also need to be longer too.. for rush hour times. I forgot that.

Like my changed avatar? Trains...gotta luv em.


Btw, on the horizon is the California High Speed Rail Authority's effort to bring high-speed trains to San Diego... like the French TGV. Downtown SD at Santa Fe Depot would be the terminus. Cool huh?

^ive been wanting to see high speed trains in Cali for years :tup:

ddaaaaang. youre an avatar-changin fiend. i think i had the same avatar for the first 4 years i was on here...i just changed mine last month for the first time.

Well, the news is mixed of late. The CHSRA requested $104m from the upcomming state budget to advance engieeering, more environmental work, and purchasing critical and necessary right of way. The actor-govenor put $1.2m or so in the first version.

I believe some state legislators are wanting more... and may be trying to get the full request honored... but there are competing interests and naysayers.

I read today that some legislators are travelling to France or Tiawan to tour their high speed train systems over the legislative break. Maybe they'll come back with renewed or reinvigorated interest???? We believers can only hope. HSR can reduce demand on Lindbergh Field... I'd think san Diego would want to get behind it!

edit. you literally answered my question as i wrote this ;)

I just figured out how. I mean... I had pictures... but didn't know how to use any programs to get them the rigth size or anything. I just learned a month or so ago and put it to practice.

if they want to move the airport our the the desert, the key is a mega-hub for commuting out there and a bullet train to get everyone there fast.

^i hate the idea of having the airport in the desert:(

even with the trains, its just way too far out there...i just wish officials at Miramar were nicer...

I think the big looming question for San Diego is how will HSR get to Santa Fe Depot??? Existing plans or preferred alignment have it coming down the current rail right of way used by the trolley, Coaster, Amtrak, and freigth traffic... but as an aerial structure. I cannot imagine an aerial structure being appropriate today!

I am kindaamazed that I have seen zero planning or thought of HSR here. I mean San Francisco, Anaheim, Sacramento, and Central Valley towns... they are all discussing it or planning for it. But not much happening here.

thats what i am hoping for because i am with you. its just way to far out there. i wouldnt even want to move it if we could just get the height restriction lifted. although, that is some PRIME real estate.

miramar would be choice #1 for me for sure!

san diego is kinda behind on mass transit. i guess they think everyone wants to drive everywhere.

uber-prime...and imagine a wrap-around skyline :drooling: