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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

Denscity Oct 21, 2018 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8352598)
According to the Winnipeg Free Press, the Western Hockey League Kootenay ice are planning to move to Winnipeg in the near future. At this point they don't have an arena available, but the plan is for a new one to be built in the southern suburbs. Apparently they would play at the University of Manitoba's arena in the meantime. For those unfamiliar with the U of M's Max Bell Centre, it is a very small and very basic facility that looks more like a community center that a major Junior venue.

I find it somewhat strange, given that the local hockey market is saturated. Winnipeg is a very small City to have two existing professional teams, and I'm not sure that a WHL team will be able to break through and carve out a fan base of its own.

Wow really?! Is Cranbrook not supporting their team? First they lose their only international flight at the airport but yet keep "international" in their airport's name, and now this. Two big blows!

JHikka Oct 21, 2018 8:56 PM

I wonder if Kootenay moving to Winnipeg would be coordinated with the Moose moving to Thunder Bay. That was always the rumour for a long time.

esquire Oct 21, 2018 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8352872)
I wonder if Kootenay moving to Winnipeg would be coordinated with the Moose moving to Thunder Bay. That was always the rumour for a long time.

Unlikely. The Freep reported that TNSE was kicking the tires on the Ice at one point, probably when as you mention Thunder Bay was a possible destination for the Ice Caps. However, a Winnipeg entrepreneur ended up buying the team and he is unaligned with TNSE... Hence the need for their own venue.

I think it will be very difficult to compete with TN's marketing muscle. I don't think the market is big enough to support the AHL and the WHL alongside the Jets... One of those teams will be playing to small crowds. Much the same way that Air Canada and WestJet are good at crushing competition to maintain their stranglehold, TN can afford to operate the Moose at a loss until the WHL is run out of town. I can see there being lower ticket prices and tons of freebies just to keep people out of the WHL's rink. It could be an interesting battle...

blueandgoldguy Oct 22, 2018 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8352887)
Unlikely. The Freep reported that TNSE was kicking the tires on the Ice at one point, probably when as you mention Thunder Bay was a possible destination for the Ice Caps. However, a Winnipeg entrepreneur ended up buying the team and he is unaligned with TNSE... Hence the need for their own venue.

I think it will be very difficult to compete with TN's marketing muscle. I don't think the market is big enough to support the AHL and the WHL alongside the Jets... One of those teams will be playing to small crowds. Much the same way that Air Canada and WestJet are good at crushing competition to maintain their stranglehold, TN can afford to operate the Moose at a loss until the WHL is run out of town. I can see there being lower ticket prices and tons of freebies just to keep people out of the WHL's rink. It could be an interesting battle...

And this new arena would have to be 100% privately financed wouldn't it? Didn't True North sign a long-term agreement with the province and the city to ensure that no enclosed facility housing a professional sports team would be funded by the public...in exchange for their 70% private financing of the MTS Centre.

I would guess a minimum of $50 million to build a 5,000 - 6,000 seat arena is required to build an arena that would house the junior team and host smaller concerts. I'm not sure the ROI would be worth it unless it was part of a big real estate play which is unlikely.

Winnipeg Jets
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
Manitoba Moose
Winnipeg Goldeyes
Winnipeg Valour (next year)
Winnipeg Ice

5 pro and 1 amateur team in Winnipeg - a city of a little over 800,000. I have a hard time believing all these teams would draw well enough to turn a profit or break even. Moose obviously don't matter in that regard but still...

esquire Oct 23, 2018 1:08 PM

^ Yeah, it's one thing to roll the dice on a junior team, but to throw in the capital costs of a new arena on top of that would be quite a gamble. If the WHL fails, what is the fall back to fill event nights? The MJHL? Minor league basketball? Craploads of wrestling and MMA?

And you're right, even without the WHL our sports market is getting pretty close to saturated. A major league team, a mid-major league team, a high level minor league team and two lower level minor league teams plus the university teams is a fair bit for a city of under one million to support.

blueandgoldguy Oct 23, 2018 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8354420)
^ Yeah, it's one thing to roll the dice on a junior team, but to throw in the capital costs of a new arena on top of that would be quite a gamble. If the WHL fails, what is the fall back to fill event nights? The MJHL? Minor league basketball? Craploads of wrestling and MMA?

And you're right, even without the WHL our sports market is getting pretty close to saturated. A major league team, a mid-major league team, a high level minor league team and two lower level minor league teams plus the university teams is a fair bit for a city of under one million to support.

I think if Winnipeg were the size of Edmonton/Calgary/Ottawa (1.3 - 1.5 million) they might be able to make a go of it - all teams breaking even or earning a profit. As it stands, I just can't see it.

After reading that article about the potential new arena being a potential add-on to the new multi-sheet iceplex, I would probably have to retract that $50 million estimate on a new arena. I'm sure there would be some cost efficiencies to be found by adding on to a multi-ice venue. It would still be an expensive and risky proposition though.

esquire Oct 23, 2018 8:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8355032)
After reading that article about the potential new arena being a potential add-on to the new multi-sheet iceplex, I would probably have to retract that $50 million estimate on a new arena. I'm sure there would be some cost efficiencies to be found by adding on to a multi-ice venue. It would still be an expensive and risky proposition though.

It's a tough spot they're in, because if you cut costs by building a cheap shed of an arena, it will be an atmosphere killer. But if you build something nice and comfortable, it drives up the price.

However, a new arena is a must if no deal can be worked out with TNSE. Max Bell Arena is simply not an option on anything other than a short-term temporary basis.

http://umanitoba.ca/faculties/kinrec...a/100_1708.jpg

GernB Oct 24, 2018 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 8353968)
And this new arena would have to be 100% privately financed wouldn't it? Didn't True North sign a long-term agreement with the province and the city to ensure that no enclosed facility housing a professional sports team would be funded by the public...in exchange for their 70% private financing of the MTS Centre.

I would guess a minimum of $50 million to build a 5,000 - 6,000 seat arena is required to build an arena that would house the junior team and host smaller concerts. I'm not sure the ROI would be worth it unless it was part of a big real estate play which is unlikely.

Winnipeg Jets
Winnipeg Blue Bombers
Manitoba Moose
Winnipeg Goldeyes
Winnipeg Valour (next year)
Winnipeg Ice

5 pro and 1 amateur team in Winnipeg - a city of a little over 800,000. I have a hard time believing all these teams would draw well enough to turn a profit or break even. Moose obviously don't matter in that regard but still...

I did read an article not long ago that the Red River Exhibition planned to build a 5000 seat arena on its exhibition grounds in the west end of the city, so maybe that's where the team might end up. No idea how far the idea was\has been taken.

esquire Oct 24, 2018 1:22 AM

^ RREX seems too inept to do anything like that. They've been using their current site for over 20 years and it still looks like they just moved in yesterday.

SaskScraper Oct 24, 2018 7:02 AM

Selkirk Recreation Complex seats about 2,700 & it would be the smallest arena in the Western Hockey League but it's only 20 kilometres NorthEast of Winnipeg. I wonder if it could be the most likely first home for a relocated WHL team to Eastern Manitoba.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1906/...8240d624_b.jpg
https://myselkirk.ca/parks-recreatio...ation-complex/

It could probably still be called the Winnipeg Ice... Vancouver Giants team plays 40 km SouthEast of the city in Langley, BC, Seattle Thunderbirds play in Kent, Washington, 26 miles from the city… Or they could just pick a name that represents the area like Kootenay Ice has had been doing, Red River Ice maybe?

esquire Oct 24, 2018 1:01 PM

^ The venue is better than Max Bell hands down, but it's still pretty small. It could work over the short term, though, although it would be a little awkward given that Selkirk is a bit of a hike for most Winnipeggers, and Selkirk already has its own longstanding MJHL team.

I wish the WHL team operators the best of luck as I'd love to see the NHL, AHL and WHL all manage to make a go of it and thrive, but I think that it's going to be tough sledding for them.

JHikka Oct 24, 2018 9:14 PM

Vancouver’s Home of Baseball: Sportsnet Acquires Exclusive Radio Rights to Vancouver Canadians

– Sportsnet 650 to broadcast Vancouver Canadians home games and select road games, beginning in 2019 season –
– Sportsnet to televise six Canadians games on Sportsnet Pacific –

http://media.sportsnet.ca/2018/10/va...ver-canadians/

Denscity Oct 24, 2018 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8356602)
Vancouver’s Home of Baseball: Sportsnet Acquires Exclusive Radio Rights to Vancouver Canadians

– Sportsnet 650 to broadcast Vancouver Canadians home games and select road games, beginning in 2019 season –
– Sportsnet to televise six Canadians games on Sportsnet Pacific –

http://media.sportsnet.ca/2018/10/va...ver-canadians/

It'll be nice to see them on TV! That stadium sells out all summer long!

mistercorporate Oct 24, 2018 9:54 PM

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/major-le...seys-1.1157516

Dr Awesomesauce Oct 25, 2018 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8356602)
Vancouver’s Home of Baseball: Sportsnet Acquires Exclusive Radio Rights to Vancouver Canadians

– Sportsnet 650 to broadcast Vancouver Canadians home games and select road games, beginning in 2019 season –
– Sportsnet to televise six Canadians games on Sportsnet Pacific –

http://media.sportsnet.ca/2018/10/va...ver-canadians/

I'll watch.

There's definitely a gap in how minor league baseball players ie prospects and teams are covered in the media - very patchy.

JHikka Oct 29, 2018 9:21 PM

MLS scores in key metrics in 2018
Both TV viewership and social and digital media impact showed impressive gains for the league, while overall paid attendance reached a record high

...
For ESPN, viewership in the 25-54 demographic is up 5 percent, and ESPN Deportes saw its best-ever viewership for MLS. In Canada, viewership on TSN and TVA both saw increases as well, up 29 percent and 6 percent year-over-year, respectively.

https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/...odies/MLS.aspx

JHikka Nov 2, 2018 4:31 PM

http://3downnation.com/2018/11/01/ar...ise-stability/

One positive for the double blue more fans taking interest in the team and all four wins did come in front of the home crowd at BMO Field.

“We were up this year, Argos paid tickets were up 1,875 tickets this year and it’s something we’re really, really pleased with. In the past, there was a lot of complimentary tickets and so in terms of the number of fans that came through the gates we’re only up slightly, maybe about 50 a game, but we cut down all these comps and our paid attendance actually went up fairly significantly,” Manning said.


Emphasis added mine.

This comes after the Argos slashed ticket prices in the leadup to the 2018 season.

Acajack Nov 2, 2018 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8366160)
http://3downnation.com/2018/11/01/ar...ise-stability/

One positive for the double blue more fans taking interest in the team and all four wins did come in front of the home crowd at BMO Field.

“We were up this year, Argos paid tickets were up 1,875 tickets this year and it’s something we’re really, really pleased with. In the past, there was a lot of complimentary tickets and so in terms of the number of fans that came through the gates we’re only up slightly, maybe about 50 a game, but we cut down all these comps and our paid attendance actually went up fairly significantly,” Manning said.


Emphasis added mine.

This comes after the Argos slashed ticket prices in the leadup to the 2018 season.

Is that 1875 more paid tickets a game or for the entire season?

JHikka Nov 2, 2018 4:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 8366168)
Is that 1875 more paid tickets a game or for the entire season?

I'm assuming for the season.

Acajack Nov 2, 2018 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 8366172)
I'm assuming for the season.

So peanuts.


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