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ghYHZ Sep 1, 2021 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9383271)
Vancouver to Hawaii has about the same travel time.

TAP Air Portugal is running A321 to Lisbon. Air Transat and Air Canada are also running narrow body across the atlantic.

If you go back in history, small aircraft crossing Oceans is not unusual. Here is a narrow body flying from Vancouver to Tokyo.

Up until the launch of the '747 in 1969 everything crossing the Atlantic or Pacific was a narrow-body.....and well into the '70s until the L-1011s and DC-10s also entered service,

Granted the seat-pitch was a bit more comfortable but those '707s and DC-8s were just as narrow and after they were reconfigured for the early tour charter operations.....about the same pitch as today. Didn't bother those in the '70s getting that cheap all-inclusive European Holiday!

thewave46 Sep 1, 2021 8:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9383156)
I didn't mean was it safe, just meant some people feel it's more tight than a widebody, so was wondering if anyone has been in a narrobody for that duration. I don't think there's any flights out of YVR that long in a narrobody. I think our summer seasonal to YHZ is the longest on a 737, and that is about 600 miles shorter than YYZ-EDI. I wasn't sure if there were any transatlantic ops from YYZ on a 737

YVR's just in a spot where long-haul narrowbody doesn't make much sense, except for the occasional flight. So, there may be a few sun flights or whatnot that might qualify. Maybe Icelandair with their 757 operations might be the distance winner there for narrowbody operations.

It's the increasing range of narrowbody aircraft that make secondary destinations less of a gamble for long-haul. Eastern Canada benefits more here than Western Canada. Whereas the 757 was the previous workhorse for those routes, the new aircraft are based on very common designs (737/A320), so they can be added on to existing fleets with less cost.

As for comfort? I find the airline makes more difference than narrow- versus widebody. Riding in the back of a Air Canada Rouge 767 is worse than a Westjet 737. Is there IFE? Or are you doing the tablet thing? Food/drink included, or is one forking out the cash?

rbt Sep 1, 2021 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9384009)
As for comfort? I find the airline makes more difference than narrow- versus widebody. Riding in the back of a Air Canada Rouge 767 is worse than a Westjet 737. Is there IFE? Or are you doing the tablet thing? Food/drink included, or is one forking out the cash?

Agreed, mostly, that airline is more important than the aircraft.

For 10+ hour long-hauls I've started picking flights by cabin pressure. I experience far less jet-lag on a 787 or A350 than a 777.

Dominion301 Sep 2, 2021 2:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9383271)
Vancouver to Hawaii has about the same travel time.

TAP Air Portugal is running A321 to Lisbon. Air Transat and Air Canada are also running narrow body across the atlantic.

If you go back in history, small aircraft crossing Oceans is not unusual. Here is a narrow body flying from Vancouver to Tokyo.

Video Link

Thanks for sharing. That was a fantastic piece of Canadian aviation history.

Calfan12 Sep 2, 2021 8:24 PM

It currently looks like KLM’s reversed circle route as KL 673 flight ✈️ starts October 2021 operating 1 weekly on Saturdays going Amsterdam- Edmonton-Calgary-Amsterdam. No KL 673 in November, but it returns on Dec.11.

In November looks like KLM is down to 1 weekly between YEG & AMS as only KL 679 via Calgary YYC operates Thursdays.

KLM’s circle route for between YEG & AMS via Calgary YYC is extended to end of March 2022.

hehehe Sep 2, 2021 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9385271)
It currently looks like KLM’s reversed circle route as KL 673 flight ✈️ starts October 2021 operating 1 weekly on Saturdays going Amsterdam- Edmonton-Calgary-Amsterdam. No KL 673 in November, but it returns on Dec.11.

In November looks like KLM is down to 1 weekly between YEG & AMS as only KL 679 via Calgary YYC operates Thursdays.

KLM’s circle route for between YEG & AMS via Calgary YYC is extended to end of March 2022.

Thanks for the update :tup:

hollywoodcory Sep 3, 2021 10:48 PM

YYC July 2021 Stats. Best month since March 2020.

Domestic: 599,295 +115.2% (YTD: 1,860,037 -35.35%)
Transborder: 28,444 +244.9% (YTD: 118,329 -83.89%)
International: 15,083 +662.5% (YTD: 53,582 -88.50%)

July 2021 Total: 642,822 +122.6%
2021 YTD: 2,031,948 -50.17%

Based on this, I'm going to guess August is close to 750,000.

Dominion301 Sep 4, 2021 2:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9386637)
YYC July 2021 Stats. Best month since March 2020.

Domestic: 599,295 +115.2% (YTD: 1,860,037 -35.35%)
Transborder: 28,444 +244.9% (YTD: 118,329 -83.89%)
International: 15,083 +662.5% (YTD: 53,582 -88.50%)

July 2021 Total: 642,822 +122.6%
2021 YTD: 2,031,948 -50.17%

Based on this, I'm going to guess August is close to 750,000.

While YOW's growth in July was +171%, YYC's (and the western airports') recoveries are still way ahead of the east. Pre-pandemic, YYC was handling about 3.43 times the traffic of YOW. In July 2021, YYC handled 5.53 times YOW's traffic and YTD it's 7.30 times the traffic = more than double the difference than is normally the case.

Calfan12 Sep 4, 2021 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9386637)
YYC July 2021 Stats. Best month since March 2020.

Domestic: 599,295 +115.2% (YTD: 1,860,037 -35.35%)
Transborder: 28,444 +244.9% (YTD: 118,329 -83.89%)
International: 15,083 +662.5% (YTD: 53,582 -88.50%)

July 2021 Total: 642,822 +122.6%
2021 YTD: 2,031,948 -50.17%

Based on this, I'm going to guess August is close to 750,000.

Nice! Not a bad 7 months for Calgary Airport YYC, as they been the 2nd busiest in Canada so far 2021,after Toronto. Crazy Times were in still!

Calfan12 Sep 4, 2021 8:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9386753)
While YOW's growth in July was +171%, YYC's (and the western airports') recoveries are still way ahead of the east. Pre-pandemic, YYC was handling about 3.43 times the traffic of YOW. In July 2021, YYC handled 5.53 times YOW's traffic and YTD it's 7.30 times the traffic = more than double the difference than is normally the case.

Not surprising Calgary’s Airport YYC’s growth is busier than Ottawa.Ottawa airport is mainly Domestic flights ✈️ within Canada just like Calgary is too! But the differences is that YYC has more Domestic flight frequencies within Canada on Air Canada, WestJet,Flair & Air Transat,along more US/ International flight frequencies too compared to Ottawa.

hollywoodcory Sep 4, 2021 9:05 PM

WS filed its updated schedule in the OAG until mid-December and it looks like it includes international flights from YWG and even YOW. A ton of sun flying planned from YYC/YYZ. Although the previously planned 789 service on YYZ-MBJ seems to be canned.

I see YWG-PVR and YOW-RSW scheduled in November.

YEG also gets at least CUN / PVR / MCO.

WS also returns to NYC with service added back to both LGA & JFK.

Dominion301 Sep 5, 2021 1:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9387212)
Not surprising Calgary’s Airport YYC’s growth is busier than Ottawa.Ottawa airport is mainly Domestic flights ✈️ within Canada just like Calgary is too! But the differences is that YYC has more Domestic flight frequencies within Canada on Air Canada, WestJet,Flair & Air Transat,along more US/ International flight frequencies too compared to Ottawa.

It's not just YOW vs YYC. It's YOW, YUL, YYZ, YFC, etc. vs YWG, YEG, YYC, YXE, etc. The western airports fell less and are recovering faster...except maybe YVR. Even YYZ is only 800k pax ahead of YYC in the first 6 months. Unthinkable 2 years ago.

A lot of the reason is geography. Part of the reason is more ULCC presence out west until very recently (i.e., F8 & WO). Flair only arrived on scene at YOW in June and YUL for all intents & purposes, July, while WO is at neither of those airports and is barely present elsewhere in the east outside of YYZ & YHM.

thenoflyzone Sep 6, 2021 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9330889)
With 25,000 COVID-19 cases a day currently, I’d be surprised to see either of these resume before Labour Day.

Well, looks like you were right.

BA is finally resuming YVR and YUL this week. 9x weekly B772 for YVR until September 25, then becomes daily service, and 5x weekly B788 for YUL.

BA hasn't served YVR since March 2020, and YUL since October 2020.

Calfan12 Sep 6, 2021 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9388109)
Well, looks like you were right.

BA is finally resuming YVR and YUL this week. 9x weekly B772 for YVR until September 25, then becomes daily service, and 5x weekly B788 for YUL.

BA hasn't served YVR since March 2020, and YUL since October 2020.

Great! Air Canada AC Calgary - London,UK flights resumes 3x Weekly this week too. As AC's Calgary to London has also been suspended since March 2020.

Calfan12 Sep 7, 2021 7:56 AM

Qatar airways Airbus A350-1000 plane ✈️ diverted to Calgary Airport YYC from San Francisco SFO, US while on the way to Doha due to an emergency & it’s the 1st time A350 -1000 has landed in Western Canada too on Monday September 6th & also the Qatar A350-1000 parked at YYC Airport Gate D76 during it.

Calgary has new seen the A350 several times. 1st Hong Kong Airlines A350-900 when it diverted from Vancouver due to weather in January 2019. Plus French Bee A350-900 this Summer 2021 during their stop to refuel few times weekly and now Qatar A350-1000 too September 2021.

whatnext Sep 7, 2021 5:56 PM

I'd heard that in typical AC fashion, the airline is short-staffed on the ground in YYZ as they offered generous buy-out packages to senior employees and a whole bunch left, just as flying was picking up again. It never ceases to amaze me that shortsighted companies always look at long-term employees as an expense to be trimmed, rather than an asset.

thenoflyzone Sep 7, 2021 7:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9389253)
I'd heard that in typical AC fashion, the airline is short-staffed on the ground in YYZ as they offered generous buy-out packages to senior employees and a whole bunch left, just as flying was picking up again. It never ceases to amaze me that shortsighted companies always look at long-term employees as an expense to be trimmed, rather than an asset.

It's not just AC who has done that. It also depends how you look at it.

If those packages aren't generous enough, and the senior employees don't leave, that means the juniors -employees with young families- will get the hit. That's far from ideal either, on a personal level. Better it be a senior employee, most likely with a decent pension plan with no real dependants, than a junior one with a wife/husband and young kids.

My company did the same thing. Some of the senior employees that left had over 40 years of service. About time they left, don't you think?

thewave46 Sep 7, 2021 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9389253)
I'd heard that in typical AC fashion, the airline is short-staffed on the ground in YYZ as they offered generous buy-out packages to senior employees and a whole bunch left, just as flying was picking up again. It never ceases to amaze me that shortsighted companies always look at long-term employees as an expense to be trimmed, rather than an asset.

Airlines in Canada were left in a lurch during COVID. Literally. Their business evaporated overnight. Government decided not to bail them out for reasons until a year into it. So yeah, they got rid of the most expensive employees first. It's that or go bankrupt. Dumping labour costs cuts cash burn.

The continued resurgence in flying isn't a given either. Sure, domestic demand peaked over the summer, but international/US hasn't picked up to the same degree. We're coming up to the doldrums part of the year too; the fall is low season. Domestic and international demand falls, while sun flying doesn't pick up until the winter.

So massive rehiring may not be a great plan if you have to lay people off again. The situation is still very fluid and while it sucks to not have everything running at 100%, airlines aren't exactly in great shape. They're cautious and rightly so.

Alexcaban Sep 7, 2021 8:17 PM

Article is in French

https://www.tourmag.com/Air-Canada-C...-_a110085.html

It interestingly points out that traffic on YUL-CDG vs JFK-CDG has surpassed NYC for the first time ever. Of course it's a pandemic and JFK is very heavy premium route and vs. YUL's strong VFR traffic. Nevertheless its showing in the bookings over the next 6 months.

Quote:

Pour la 1ère fois, toutes compagnies aériennes, tous canaux confondus, il y a plus de passagers prévus pour les six prochains mois entre Paris-Montréal qu'entre Paris et New York. C'est du jamais vu et l'écart se creuse chaque semaine.

Actuellement 41 061 billets ont été vendus pour la ligne vers Montréal, contre 35 748 vers New York, pour des voyages entre septembre et février 2022. De plus l'accélération des ventes est phénoménale, avec 15,6% de hausse des ventes d'une semaine à l'autre, pour Montréal.

Also mentions YUL-LYS to return December 11th, 2021.

Quote:

Autre point important, nous rouvrons la liaison Lyon Montréal, le 11 décembre prochain. Comme vous le voyez nous reprogrammons de nombreuses liaisons, nous sommes en ordre de marche.
As well as Air Canada's intention to re-launch YUL-TLS, which of course was delayed, then cancelled all together due to Covid.

Quote:

"Je peux vous dire que Toulouse-Montréal sera lancée, c'est certain, avec une liaison à l'année"

Djeffery Sep 7, 2021 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9389332)
It's not just AC who has done that. It also depends how you look at it.

If those packages aren't generous enough, and the senior employees don't leave, that means the juniors -employees with young families- will get the hit. That's far from ideal either, on a personal level. Better it be a senior employee, most likely with a decent pension plan with no real dependants, than a junior one with a wife/husband and young kids.

My company did the same thing. Some of the senior employees that left had over 40 years of service. About time they left, don't you think?

And the younger employees are likely on a cheaper defined contribution pension plan and possibly a lower wage tier. And likely cheaper benefits usage. I wish my own company would offer buyouts for senior employees, as I'm at 34 years and still can't get Christmas vacation lol.


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