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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

SaskOttaLoo May 7, 2017 1:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7795470)
The terminal isn't at capacity. It can easily handle 25 million passengers. Problem is, that's assuming the flights are spread out evenly throughout the day, which isn't the case. All the gates are virtually empty from 10am til 2 pm. Everyone wants to fly in/out of here in the morning, from 6am to 10am, and in the evening, from 3 pm til 7pm.

60 gates is a lot of gates for an airport that only handles 16 million passengers. YVR roughly has the same number of gates, and yet easily handles 22 million passengers. YYZ handles almost triple the passenger count of YUL, without 180 gates.

YUL's runways can handle about that, 65-75 movements an hour (arrivals and departures). So i'm of the opinion that building more gates is useless. The average turnaround time of an aircraft is about 1h, 1h30. So building more gates wont accomplish anything. You will push back and start to taxi, only to join the long queue to takeoff. You're waiting either way. So take the damn bus to the remote parking. No difference. It's useless to have more gates than what your runways can handle per hour.

AC needs to spread out its flights more evenly throughout the day. That in itself will help alleviate a lot of the congestion at the airport. Either way, they won't have any choice in a year or two. As you said, peak times, the gates are full.

I was thinking that myself...most of the times I've been at YUL my thought has more been how it seems to have a ton of excess capacity. Interesting info here.

1overcosc May 10, 2017 1:16 AM

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...assengers.html

More evidence that we desperately need an airline passengers bill of rights. Air Canada should have been required to pay for their hotel room and give them financial compensation.

Denscity May 10, 2017 2:40 AM

Iceland Air bumping its flights out of Vancouver to year round starting later this year.

Acajack May 10, 2017 2:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7800276)
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...assengers.html

More evidence that we desperately need an airline passengers bill of rights. Air Canada should have been required to pay for their hotel room and give them financial compensation.

Did the Canada Transportation Agency put one of these together a few years ago? I know the EU has one.

kwoldtimer May 10, 2017 2:49 AM

The Canadian Government is planning to introduce legislation on passenger rights in the near future, I think Minister Garneau confirmed recently.

Alexcaban May 10, 2017 4:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7800276)
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...assengers.html

More evidence that we desperately need an airline passengers bill of rights. Air Canada should have been required to pay for their hotel room and give them financial compensation.

I'm sorry, but how exactly is this ACs problem? If anything the GTAA should be paying for all this. AC's contract with the PAX is to fly them to their final destination which is respected, could you imagine if AC had to pay for hotels for every single passenger that is effected by this work.

DrNest May 10, 2017 4:49 PM

AC knew that the runway construction project would have a major effect on the number of flights Pearson can handle and were warned about this by the GTAA (as were other regular airlines). Yet, from my understanding, AC continued to sell tickets at a full capacity schedule rather than taking into account the reduced flow rate.

Additionally, it was anticipated for a large portion of the project, that turbo-props and small jets such as the RJs and business jets would use the remaining length of 23 for take-offs and landings, and 05 for take-offs to alleviate the strain on 24L/R(06L/R) when wind favours. In reality almost none of them would accept it. I don't have the NOTAMed length to hand, but remember it being something in the region of 6,900'. Longer than some of the runways these aircraft were departing to or arriving from.

MonctonRad May 10, 2017 5:27 PM

Canada to get a new arctic hub airport (The Independent)

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...-a7725221.html

SaskOttaLoo May 10, 2017 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 7801041)
Canada to get a new arctic hub airport (The Independent)

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...-a7725221.html

It has always annoyed me that Iceland and even Greenland are both visited by tourists far more frequently than northern Canada, which is rarely even considered as an option. Sounds like Iqaluit's location makes it an ideal stopping spot. I'm sure there are many issues to overcome, but it would be extremely positive for Canada to have better connections to its northern cities.

thenoflyzone May 10, 2017 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 7800987)
AC knew that the runway construction project would have a major effect on the number of flights Pearson can handle and were warned about this by the GTAA (as were other regular airlines). Yet, from my understanding, AC continued to sell tickets at a full capacity schedule rather than taking into account the reduced flow rate.

I agree. This is not the GTAA's fault. It's AC's. Cancelling flights last minute is not a modus operandi for dealing with a big construction project at their largest hub. Flights should have been cancelled weeks (maybe even months) in advance, in anticipation of this project.

The GTAA started this project as soon as the weather enabled it (end of March), to minimize the impact on operations during peak travel season (June-August). Their part was done. The blame lies solely on the airline.

Look at EK and the way they handled a runway closure at DXB last year. Flights were cancelled months in advance and the number of movements at the airport was restricted for the duration of the project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 7800987)
Additionally, it was anticipated for a large portion of the project, that turbo-props and small jets such as the RJs and business jets would use the remaining length of 23 for take-offs and landings, and 05 for take-offs to alleviate the strain on 24L/R(06L/R) when wind favours. In reality almost none of them would accept it. I don't have the NOTAMed length to hand, but remember it being something in the region of 6,900'. Longer than some of the runways these aircraft were departing to or arriving from.

Reminds me of when runway 06R/24L at YUL was shortened to only 7300 ft last summer. Airlines assured us that they would still be able to use the runway, but when the time came, none of them could compute the numbers in their FMS, and so they couldn't use it. By the time the problem was solved, the construction project was almost over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 7800351)
Iceland Air bumping its flights out of Vancouver to year round starting later this year.

Great to see, however surprised YVR can't support more than just 3x weekly in summer, and 2x weekly in winter, to be honest.

Airboy May 10, 2017 6:42 PM

Iceland and Greenland are set up better for tourist. Iqaluit is rougher around the edges and a true tourist industry is a ways away. If the cost of travel was significantly less, they would get more Canadian travelers. For me from Edmonton the flight cost is about $3500.00. so unless I am going on business I cannot travel up there anymore. Flight up island are around 1000.00 or more. I would love to get up to Pond Inlet and get some kayaking in. But the flight would be close to or above 4000.00 and you still have to get accommodations. or set up with an outfitter.

As for the new terminal. final Commissioning and some additional construction changes are currently ongoing. so it should be open later this summer.

MalcolmTucker May 10, 2017 6:51 PM

Airmiles has great deals for up north!

esquire May 10, 2017 7:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker (Post 7801145)
Airmiles has great deals for up north!

Same with Aeroplan. Point for point perhaps the best value you can get on an economy-fare redemption. The problem is once you get up there, what do you do? You're basically stuck in a super-expensive small town. Like Airboy said, these places aren't tourist friendly. Churchill, Manitoba is perhaps one of the only places in that entire region that is set up for tourism in any significant way.

Your only options for getting out and seeing anything are basically doing it yourself which requires Survivorman-like outdoor skills, or dropping huge dollars for a guide to take you out on the land.

TorontoDrew May 10, 2017 8:16 PM

Anybody else see this ridiculous article. Yes Air Canada had an obligation which they didn't fulfill according to the mother but some of the comments are ridiculous.


Air Canada leaves teen 'trapped' alone overnight at Toronto's Pearson airport
No accommodation or meal vouchers offered to 15-year-old boy during 22-hour flight delay
By Jody Porter, CBC News Posted: May 10, 2017 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: May 10, 2017 4:04 PM ET

Air Canada cannot use construction at Toronto's Pearson airport as an excuse for forcing a 15-year-old boy to spend a long, scary night alone, says the boy's mother.

Derrin Espinola was flying alone on May 1 from Denver to Thunder Bay, with a stopover in Toronto, when a flight delay leaving Denver caused the teen to miss his connecting flight.

Espinola said that when he arrived in Toronto around 8 p.m., Air Canada rebooked him on a flight to Thunder Bay the following day, at 6 p.m., but did not offer him any accommodation or vouchers for food.

Crews working '24/7, non-stop' on Pearson runway construction amid flight delays
Air Canada policy change urged after minor left alone to sleep on airport floor overnight
"I was trapped in the airport and there was nowhere I could go. I could not leave. I could not get a hotel, because I am a minor," Espinola told CBC News in an interview a week after his long, lonely night. "It was like being held prisoner."

The teen said he spent part of the night running between Air Canada service desks explaining that he was a minor and needed help. When none was offered, he did his best to stay alert and awake for fear he would be robbed if he let his guard down.

"I was very hungry, very tired, very scared," Espinola said. "I didn't know really what was going to happen to me."

Meanwhile, his mother, Karin Patock, said she spent 10 hours on the phone, trying to get through to Air Canada and make arrangements for her son.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4107276.149444623...n-espinola.png

Full story here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunde...teen-1.4106886


I'm sorry but you're are stuck in a Canadian airport for one night and that scares you kid maybe you shouldn't travel alone.

SaskOttaLoo May 10, 2017 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7801190)
Same with Aeroplan. Point for point perhaps the best value you can get on an economy-fare redemption. The problem is once you get up there, what do you do? You're basically stuck in a super-expensive small town. Like Airboy said, these places aren't tourist friendly. Churchill, Manitoba is perhaps one of the only places in that entire region that is set up for tourism in any significant way.

Your only options for getting out and seeing anything are basically doing it yourself which requires Survivorman-like outdoor skills, or dropping huge dollars for a guide to take you out on the land.

Hmm, that's too bad. I read an article about some amazing northern delicacies that I've been dreaming to try. I wonder if someone could set up opportunities to do things with and learn from locals, the way that Fogo Island has done so well.

esquire May 10, 2017 8:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 7801267)
I'm sorry but you're are stuck in a Canadian airport for one night and that scares you kid maybe you shouldn't travel alone.

Good Lord, it's Pearson Airport, not a bus station in the shady parts of Managua.

That said, couldn't the parents have made a hotel reservation for the kid if he couldn't do it himself? You'd think the Airport Sheraton or whatever would understand the circumstances. When I've missed late evening connections at YYZ I haven't bothered with the mile-long lineups that inevitably form... I just get a room and sort it all out from there.

1overcosc May 10, 2017 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7801190)
Same with Aeroplan. Point for point perhaps the best value you can get on an economy-fare redemption. The problem is once you get up there, what do you do? You're basically stuck in a super-expensive small town. Like Airboy said, these places aren't tourist friendly. Churchill, Manitoba is perhaps one of the only places in that entire region that is set up for tourism in any significant way.

Your only options for getting out and seeing anything are basically doing it yourself which requires Survivorman-like outdoor skills, or dropping huge dollars for a guide to take you out on the land.

Yeah.. Ottawa-Iqaluit and Montreal-Iqaluit are arguably the best deals available with Aeroplan. All it takes is 15,000 points (low enough that you can pretty much get that as a signup-bonus on any Aeroplan credit card) to get a seat for a flight that costs $2500 to buy.

kwoldtimer May 10, 2017 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 7801267)
Anybody else see this ridiculous article. Yes Air Canada had an obligation which they didn't fulfill according to the mother but some of the comments are ridiculous.


Air Canada leaves teen 'trapped' alone overnight at Toronto's Pearson airport
No accommodation or meal vouchers offered to 15-year-old boy during 22-hour flight delay
By Jody Porter, CBC News Posted: May 10, 2017 5:00 AM ET Last Updated: May 10, 2017 4:04 PM ET

Air Canada cannot use construction at Toronto's Pearson airport as an excuse for forcing a 15-year-old boy to spend a long, scary night alone, says the boy's mother.

Derrin Espinola was flying alone on May 1 from Denver to Thunder Bay, with a stopover in Toronto, when a flight delay leaving Denver caused the teen to miss his connecting flight.

Espinola said that when he arrived in Toronto around 8 p.m., Air Canada rebooked him on a flight to Thunder Bay the following day, at 6 p.m., but did not offer him any accommodation or vouchers for food.

Crews working '24/7, non-stop' on Pearson runway construction amid flight delays
Air Canada policy change urged after minor left alone to sleep on airport floor overnight
"I was trapped in the airport and there was nowhere I could go. I could not leave. I could not get a hotel, because I am a minor," Espinola told CBC News in an interview a week after his long, lonely night. "It was like being held prisoner."

The teen said he spent part of the night running between Air Canada service desks explaining that he was a minor and needed help. When none was offered, he did his best to stay alert and awake for fear he would be robbed if he let his guard down.

"I was very hungry, very tired, very scared," Espinola said. "I didn't know really what was going to happen to me."

Meanwhile, his mother, Karin Patock, said she spent 10 hours on the phone, trying to get through to Air Canada and make arrangements for her son.

https://i.cbc.ca/1.4107276.149444623...n-espinola.png

Full story here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunde...teen-1.4106886


I'm sorry but you're are stuck in a Canadian airport for one night and that scares you kid maybe you shouldn't travel alone.

That seems a tad harsh and Air Canada should have been more on the ball, istm. I'm at a loss, however, to understand why the mother spent 10 hours on the phone trying to reach Air Canada when she could have spent 10 minutes on the phone booking an airport hotel room for her kid for the night.

SignalHillHiker May 10, 2017 11:06 PM

YYT had its busiest year ever, largely a credit to the CAT III or whatever landing system, which eliminated well over 9/10 flights that used to be cancelled due to fog.

Denscity May 11, 2017 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 7801518)
YYT had its busiest year ever, largely a credit to the CAT III or whatever landing system, which eliminated well over 9/10 flights that used to be cancelled due to fog.

Sure wish YCG had that system. They call us Cancelgar don't you know.


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