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-   -   NEW YORK | Central Park Tower (Nordstrom)| 1,550 FT | 131 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191095)

Onn Mar 27, 2015 1:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 6966441)
Releasing a rendering prematurely allows the developer to be scrutinized even more and this could be a risk, often that is calculated. Then theres a ton of paperwork to be done if the design changes and lets say applications are filed prematurely for a concept that won't necessarily be 99% of what the final product is.

This is true, but every other developer does it. What makes Extell different? We didn't see renderings for One 57 until it was going up either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876
Yup will look the same.

I think people are expecting some dramatic change where it shoots close to 2000 feet, but its not happening

The problem is none of the renderings are official though, so how can you say its going to look exactly the same? Extell said there will be changes to the design, those renders released by Yimby are not final. So is the design staying the same or not? Sounds like not to me.

chris08876 Mar 27, 2015 1:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6966704)
The problem is none of the renderings are official though, so how can you say its going to look exactly the same? Extell said there will be changes to the design, those renders released by Yimby are not final. So is the design staying the same or not? Sounds like not to me.

This is to far into the process to be completely altered. As I've said and Nikolai as well, expect slight alterations but nothing on the level of getting a whole new tower in terms of it looking radically different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onn (Post 6966704)
This is true, but every other developer does it. What makes Extell different? We didn't see renderings for One 57 until it was going up either.

Its a controversial neighborhood. With One57, releasing them early would of provoked swift action from community groups, residents, and their political counterparts on the Upper East/West side. The issue of the park being harmed was a big issue for Barnett.

This tower is also controversial in its nature being almost #1 in height for the city. Barnett is all about risk, and he wants to get the foundation going, and 100% assurance that his projects will go up on time, and rise in the first place. Giving the bare minimum allowed, and just making it through the whole ordeal from conception to shovels on the ground is his game plan.

Keep in mind that the whole secrecy is a Barnett thing. Thats how he operates.

Onn Mar 27, 2015 2:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 6966730)
This is to far into the process to be completely altered. As I've said and Nikolai as well, expect slight alterations but nothing on the level of getting a whole new tower in terms of it looking radically different.

Its up to Extell on any changes, we have no say in that matter.

Quote:

Its a controversial neighborhood. With One57, releasing them early would of provoked swift action from community groups, residents, and their political counterparts on the Upper East/West side. The issue of the park being harmed was a big issue for Barnett.
That's never been a major issue in the city, nor with this current batch of towers. Not for One57, not for 432 Park...this is next in line.

Quote:

This tower is also controversial in its nature being almost #1 in height for the city. Barnett is all about risk, and he wants to get the foundation going, and 100% assurance that his projects will go up on time, and rise in the first place. Giving the bare minimum allowed, and just making it through the whole ordeal from conception to shovels on the ground is his game plan.
Maybe its that, we won't know that for awhile of course. This tower has a long way to go. With the department store in the base of the construction it might take longer to rise than its neighbors.

gramsjdg Mar 27, 2015 2:31 PM

I don't think anyone is debating the finality of the design as revealed last summer. The question is how much height-change flexibility the design has.

So far we've seen it grow 11 feet from 1479 to 1490... Is there room for more? Steinway grew from 1350 to 1424 with the same design, so maybe this can hit 1550.

NYguy Mar 27, 2015 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 6966441)
Releasing a rendering prematurely allows the developer to be scrutinized even more and this could be a risk, often that is calculated. Then theres a ton of paperwork to be done if the design changes and lets say applications are filed prematurely for a concept that won't necessarily be 99% of what the final product is.


I find that to be a bunch of bs. This tower is no more important than 111 W. 57th or even 220 CPS, both of which have either a render or drawing on site, which is required by the DOB. Extell continues to try to operate above the rules, and now it's becoming clear what NIMBYs have been talking about in regards to One57 construction. The city has rules, and it is not interested in whatever petty reasons Extell would have for not providing anything.



Quote:

Originally Posted by chris08876 (Post 6966468)
Yup will look the same.

I think people are expecting some dramatic change where it shoots close to 2000 feet, but its not happening.

I don't know why people would be expecting some major change. But you do understand the difference between an official render and what we've seen. I think a rendering will go a long way towards understanding how this tower works, what the facade treatement will be, how the glass may come off, etc. We need the fine details of the store, the transition to the tower, the spire, all of it in the fine detail that an official rendering will provide.

Hypothalamus Mar 27, 2015 3:01 PM

Extell is probably more focused on the interior renderings/glass fa├žade rather than Nordstrom's boxy exterior/mass of the tower; (the latter is what we're interested in on here). Remember, Extell is calculating sales, and isn't interested in the height of the parapet. I'd think there's a ton of pressure upon the release of any form of rendering, as judgments will quickly be made of the tower. Renderings need to be perfected, as his clientele will probably be already contemplating whether to invest or not -- renderings are the icing on the cake and it needs to look and taste great. Extell is not worried about criticism; this tower is going up.

babybackribs2314 Mar 27, 2015 9:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6967196)
I find that to be a bunch of bs. This tower is no more important than 111 W. 57th or even 220 CPS, both of which have either a render or drawing on site, which is required by the DOB. Extell continues to try to operate above the rules, and now it's becoming clear what NIMBYs have been talking about in regards to One57 construction. The city has rules, and it is not interested in whatever petty reasons Extell would have for not providing anything.

I agree 100%. In fact, Extell actually portions a part of their budget for project violations/etc.

Zapatan Mar 27, 2015 10:27 PM

If the "leaked" renderings on NYimby were basically an accurate depiction of what the final product will look like I don't get what everyone is so worked up about, we've essentially seen what the building will look like/how tall it will be. :)

chris08876 Mar 27, 2015 10:39 PM

Its just a shady way of doing business with the city. Following the rules is good, but in the pursuit of money, some make their own up. Not just in Real Estate, but in the bio and chem industry as well. Different topic obviously and lets keep it for another time, but underhanded tactics occur much more than we think. Sometimes its cheaper to pay violations then it would be to actually do things the right way. Cough cough oil industry cough cough. ;)

Actually if you want a good case study of this, research real estate violations in China. Lets not talk about it here, but its just food for thought.

Onn Mar 27, 2015 10:49 PM

I don't know if this is new or you can gleam anything from it, but Vertical_Gotham on SSC posted it just now. Looks like there is going to be a "Tween Lounge" in the building. :)

DOB:
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BS...de=ES968871142

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...b0b04312f4.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...6c2599304c.jpg

CCs77 Mar 28, 2015 6:37 PM

I wonder if there are more floor plans in other documents. Here's a plan of the 10th floor, found in the same document as the other. We can see the shape of the lower portion of the tower is the same as the massing diagrams showed by NYMBY.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...pss9mito3c.jpg

http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...m-Tower-31.jpg
http://www.yimbynews.com/wp-content/...er-Profile.jpg







The dimensions of the lower portion of the Tower

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...pshw5zpgos.jpg







The dimensions of the main portion of the Tower, with the cantilever will be 100'11'' x 87'3'' (30.8m x 26.6m) very similar to the dimensions of 432 Park.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...psp5emebhf.jpg





We can already see some structural elements. The huge load-bearing wall on the eastern side (marked with the letter "A") seems already there, it is the retaing wall against the Arts Students League building, that will go up to the cantilever. You can also see the column "B" and the load bearing walls "C" and "D" with the elevator shaft on the intersection of those walls.


http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ps0rjosydt.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...psgfxlhebd.jpg

nomad11 Mar 28, 2015 8:50 PM

Honestly, I kinda like the general concept of this building..the various setbacks are cool, as NYguy says, the devil is definitely in the details...a "minor" enhancement to the spire would be a game-changer for this building

Zapatan Mar 29, 2015 4:53 AM

The spire actually works pretty well with the building and is decently proportioned I think.

I wonder if Steinway inching closer to this thing's height will push it higher? Perhaps not since 432 park avenue didn't force Steinway too much higher but in any case there will be a nice ascending plateau of 14-1500' buildings along the park. :)

Crawford Mar 30, 2015 3:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapatan (Post 6967976)
If the "leaked" renderings on NYimby were basically an accurate depiction of what the final product will look like I don't get what everyone is so worked up about, we've essentially seen what the building will look like/how tall it will be. :)

Exactly. We essentially know what's coming here. I don't get what people are waiting for re. rendering; we already have a (rough) rendering.

fleonzo Mar 30, 2015 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6970168)
Exactly. We essentially know what's coming here. I don't get what people are waiting for re. rendering; we already have a (rough) rendering.

Because some people just want something "official" to....critize! :koko:

Onn Mar 30, 2015 3:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleonzo (Post 6970377)
Because some people just want something "official" to....critize! :koko:

Or because we're hoping for a supped up design.

NYguy Mar 30, 2015 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6970168)
We essentially know what's coming here. I don't get what people are waiting for re. rendering; we already have a (rough) rendering.

Because an actual rendering from the actual architects will give you the details that a drawing can not. You people have looked at renderings for years, I honestly don't understand how you cannot know the difference.

But I guess until you have an actual rendering in front of you, you won't understand it.

mrnyc Mar 31, 2015 10:47 PM

i want final renders so we can compare the pretty pictures with what it actually turns out like when its done.

gttx Mar 31, 2015 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleonzo (Post 6970377)
Because some people just want something "official" to....critize! :koko:

I, for one, am waiting for renderings so I can decide whether or not to purchase a unit here. If you guys save your pennies every month, maybe you can buy one too!

chris08876 Apr 1, 2015 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gttx (Post 6972799)
I, for one, am waiting for renderings so I can decide whether or not to purchase a unit here. If you guys save your pennies every month, maybe you can buy one too!



Two solutions to live in this tower. One, marry one of the buyers or two, make the next Iphone. Either that or work in it being the chef, make some great food, and hope that it changes his or her life forever because that dish was so good, and that it forces a bond between the two in which then you live in it because you get married.

Even saving a 10k a month, it would still take 83 years to buy a 10 mil unit.


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