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arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628190)
Watching the World Cup this year has got me thinking. Memphis should push really hard for a Major League Soccer expansion franchise. Now's the time since the league is blowing up and cities all over America are getting expansion franchises. Atlanta was just rewarded one to begin play in 2017 when they move into their new Falcons home. The MLS could soon bypass MLB and possibly the NBA in fan following across America. It is already the #1 sport in the world. Memphis needs an alternative to the Grizzlies as a second major sports team to root for. Besides, the league plays its games during the spring to fall.

I have seen Memphis mentioned as a possible candidate for one of the two expansion spots left. So Wharton should jump on it and grab the MLS' attention NOW and show that Memphis can support a MLS soccer team.

Having a MLS franchise would also mean a new stadium for the team as the Liberty Bowl is not soccer fitted and would require the development for a new facility. But the good news, the MLS stadiums are small, about 18,000 to 22,000 on average. But they feature NFL style accommodations and amenities including luxury suits, skyboxes and restaurants and a team store. Plus they are usually built at a marginal cost and mostly privately funded.

If Memphis ever wants to be taken serious and treated like a big league city then they need to start acting like one and now is the time.

Is this serious? To begin, Memphis isn't nearly large enough. Soccer won't overtake the MLB or NBA, the MLB is actually having a slight turn around (hard to believe, I know) and the NBA will always be extremely popular as long as the NCAA is the number one developmental system for it and we continue to be in this "super star" age where the league and endorsers continually try to brand people a one. The MLS won't even overtake the NHL.

Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, and NYC (another team) will all have teams before anyone else. The only one that isn't for certain is Miami's since they don't have solid stadium plans yet.

I have never seen Memphis mentioned in anything MLS related.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingchef (Post 6628243)
should the mid so coliseum be repalced in one of the phases of the fairground, would a currently proposed smaller coliseum, i think being banted around at this time, be the size needed or fill the proposal? i hate to see all the money poured into the ada act and other upgrades of just 2 of 3 years ago essentially headed down the drain.




I think you're thinking about the ADA upgrades to the LBMS. The Coliseum didn't have any upgrades that I'm aware of, but yes, it will be torn down and replaced with a venue around the size of the Landers in Southaven (or w/e the name currently is).

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628391)
Is this serious? To begin, Memphis isn't nearly large enough. Soccer won't overtake the MLB or NBA, the MLB is actually having a slight turn around (hard to believe, I know) and the NBA will always be extremely popular as long as the NCAA is the number one developmental system for it and we continue to be in this "super star" age where the league and endorsers continually try to brand people a one. The MLS won't even overtake the NHL.

Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, and NYC (another team) will all have teams before anyone else. The only one that isn't for certain is Miami's since they don't have solid stadium plans yet.

I have never seen Memphis mentioned in anything MLS related.


[/B]

I think you're thinking about the ADA upgrades to the LBMS. The Coliseum didn't have any upgrades that I'm aware of, but yes, it will be torn down and replaced with a venue around the size of the Landers in Southaven (or w/e the name currently is).

See, that is the simple minded attitude that has plagued Memphis for decades. There's always a crowd saying it can't be done in Memphis. Well it can be! It's all about the attitudes changing for it to be. There's a reason why Memphis doesn't have anything today outside of the NBA and Graceland. It's the doubters in the city who don't see the potential.

Memphis is too small for a MLS team? Really? Metro Memphis is a 1 million populated area. There's no other MLS franchise near Memphis which would give them a much larger tv market.

Gotta think big if you ever wanna be seen as big.

MEMFLY Jun 23, 2014 3:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628391)
Is this serious? To begin, Memphis isn't nearly large enough. Soccer won't overtake the MLB or NBA, the MLB is actually having a slight turn around (hard to believe, I know) and the NBA will always be extremely popular as long as the NCAA is the number one developmental system for it and we continue to be in this "super star" age where the league and endorsers continually try to brand people a one. The MLS won't even overtake the NHL.

Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, and NYC (another team) will all have teams before anyone else. The only one that isn't for certain is Miami's since they don't have solid stadium plans yet.

I have never seen Memphis mentioned in anything MLS related.


[/B]

I think you're thinking about the ADA upgrades to the LBMS. The Coliseum didn't have any upgrades that I'm aware of, but yes, it will be torn down and replaced with a venue around the size of the Landers in Southaven (or w/e the name currently is).

Can't say Memphis is too small when Salt Lake City has one.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 3:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MEMFLY (Post 6628443)
Can't say Memphis is too small when Salt Lake City has one.

Very good point. Also, Portland, Sacramento, and Columbus, OH. Memphis is bigger than all of those cities.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 3:46 PM

^Wrong, unless you're going strictly by city proper estimates, which generally no professional league does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628420)
See, that is the simple minded attitude that has plagued Memphis for decades. There's always a crowd saying it can't be done in Memphis. Well it can be! It's all about the attitudes changing for it to be. There's a reason why Memphis doesn't have anything today outside of the NBA and Graceland. It's the doubters in the city who don't see the potential.

Memphis is too small for a MLS team? Really? Metro Memphis is a 1 million populated area. There's no other MLS franchise near Memphis which would give them a much larger tv market.

Gotta think big if you ever wanna be seen as big.

That's not a simple minded attitude; that's common sense combined with what the MLS currently has in place and what Memphis offers.

Below is the current (or future) MLS markets with their MSA numbers in the first column and their CSA numbers in the 2nd (2013 estimates). I didn't add the Canadian teams. Memphis is added for comparison. As you can see Memphis is smaller than only 1 current market has a smaller MSA while all markets have a CSA with at least 1 million more people than the Memphis market. Also keep in mind many of these markets have a large Latino and/or Asian population as well.

NYC 19.9 23.4
LA 13.1 18.3
CHI 9.5 9.9
DFW 6.8 7.2
HOU 6.3 6.5
PHL 6 7.1
DC 5.9 9.4
MIA 5.8 6.4
ATL 5.2 6.1
BOS 4.6 8
SEA 3.9 4.4
DEN 2.6 3.2
POR 2.3 3
ORL 2.2 2.9
KC 2 2.3
COL 1.9 2.3
SJ 1.9 8.4
SLC 1.1 2.3

MEM 1.3 1.3

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628473)
^Wrong, unless you're going strictly by city proper estimates, which generally no professional league does.



That's not a simple minded attitude; that's common sense combined with what the MLS currently has in place and what Memphis offers.

Below is the current (or future) MLS markets with their MSA numbers in the first column and their CSA numbers in the 2nd (2013 estimates). I didn't add the Canadian teams. Memphis is added for comparison. As you can see Memphis is smaller than only 1 current market has a smaller MSA while all markets have a CSA with at least 1 million more people than the Memphis market. Also keep in mind many of these markets have a large Latino and/or Asian population as well.

NYC 19.9 23.4
LA 13.1 18.3
CHI 9.5 9.9
DFW 6.8 7.2
HOU 6.3 6.5
PHL 6 7.1
DC 5.9 9.4
MIA 5.8 6.4
ATL 5.2 6.1
BOS 4.6 8
SEA 3.9 4.4
DEN 2.6 3.2
POR 2.3 3
ORL 2.2 2.9
KC 2 2.3
COL 1.9 2.3
SJ 1.9 8.4
SLC 1.1 2.3

MEM 1.3 1.3

Las Vegas is about to get a team. They're building a 24,000 seat indoor stadium and they're not that much bigger of a city nor TV market than Memphis.

LV #41
MEM #49.

Plus, having a team in Memphis could actually have an impact on the inner city's youth as soccer is becoming big in Memphis now with the UM.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 4:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Warren (Post 6628211)
AGREED How about we all email or message the city and they may think real hard about it.

Great idea!!!! I don't know how I missed your post but I totally agree! Email the mayor's office and get it noticed. :cheers:

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 4:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628487)
Las Vegas is about to get a team. They're building a 24,000 seat indoor stadium and they're not that much bigger of a city nor TV market than Memphis.

LV #41
MEM #49.

Plus, having a team in Memphis could actually have an impact on the inner city's youth as soccer is becoming big in Memphis now with the UM.

Las Vegas is in talks with the MLS. They haven't been granted a franchise yet and haven't finalized plans for a stadium yet either. Las Vegas also has 36 Million visitors a year.

Chris Warren Jun 23, 2014 4:34 PM

I Wonder will team be able to play at the Liberty Bowl for temporary

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 4:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628499)
Las Vegas is in talks with the MLS. They haven't been granted a franchise yet and haven't finalized plans for a stadium yet either. Las Vegas also has 36 Million visitors a year.

That is true, but they are expected to get one of the last remaining spots. St Louis, Queens, and OKC are all said to be in the running. Memphis was mentioned as a potential candidate on a blog recently.

Memphis' chances will improve if the MLS decides to expand further to 30-32 teams which is possible with the high demand for expansion teams across America.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Warren (Post 6628529)
IF Memphis were to be Granted an MLS Team it may lead to plans of a new Football Stadium or Real Deal Renovation of the Liberty Bowl if the Tigers will share it with them .

The problem with that is that the soccer seating capacity would be too small for the UM to share a facility with. They are reducing stadium capacities to around 20,000 per. The UM needs at least 40,000 or more. Last year they drew in over 30,000 a game.

That being said, the city could work with the MLS and owners to build a open-air stadium that could hold up to 50,000 for football and cover the upper deck with sheilders (not tarps) to make the stadium look more intimate and smaller for soccer crowds. Below is a rendering of the new Atlanta Falcons stadium concept for football and it's new MLS soccer team.

Soccer
http://archive.11alive.com/images/64...-stadium25.JPG

Football
http://prod.static.falcons.clubs.nfl...Stadium_CP.jpg

Chris Warren Jun 23, 2014 4:57 PM

New $62M student recreation and fitness center coming to University of Memphis

Memphis Business Journal
Quote:

The University of Memphis is moving forward on construction of its new $62 million student recreation and fitness center.

The 192,500-square-foot facility will be located along Southern Avenue north of the existing Student Recreation and Fitness Center, and is expected to be open in 2018. Construction will be done in three phases. It will be funded by a $307 student fee increase that will take effect in the 2014-15 school year. In addition to the recreation center, a $24 million parking garage and $18 million land bridge connecting the facility with the northern part of the campus are also in the planning stages.

The facility will feature a main four-court divisible gym, six racquetball courts, a multi-purpose fitness center with a climbing wall, a natatorium with a recreational pool and lane pool. It will also have an outdoor leisure pool, lockers, classrooms and training rooms, a two-court gym, a quarter-mile indoor track, a wellness and nutrition area, juice bar, offices and large group exercise areas. The outdoor part of the facility will have three full-size turf fields, basketball courts and tennis courts.

“The Student Recreation and Fitness Center has become a vital part of students’ lives and health on our campus, and vividly demonstrates the mind-body connection,” Rosie Phillips Bingham, vice president for student affairs, said. “Our students like that sense of connection; they like using the rec center and they wanted a center that was up-to-date and provides more room for the growing numbers of students who use the facility. I believe they will be very pleased with the new, modern recreation center.”
http://bizj.us/xw4gv/i/1

Trevor Birchett Jun 23, 2014 4:57 PM

Hate to interrupt the MLS conversation...but we've got some breaking news on 100 North Main...

Hotel commits to 100 N. Main as developer faces questions
Memphis Business Journal
June 23, 2014
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...per-faces.html

Quote:

Yitzchok "Isaac" Thomas, managing principal of One Hundred North Main LLC, told me today that InterContinental Hotels Group has committed to opening a 171-room Hotel Indigo in the 38-story, 792,873-square-foot building at 100 N. Main in Downtown.

Thomas, who bought the building in August 2013, is moving forward with plans to renovate the building for the hotel and 266 high-end apartment units. He's already moved the building's tenants out with hopes to begin renovations this year, with a target opening date in late 2015 or early 2016. And in a couple of weeks, he said, he'll have another announcement about a "major milestone" of the project.

Chris Warren Jun 23, 2014 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628553)
The problem with that is that the soccer seating capacity would be too small for the UM to share a facility with. They are reducing stadium capacities to around 20,000 per. The UM needs at least 40,000 or more. Last year they drew in over 30,000 a game.

That being said, the city could work with the MLS and owners to build a open-air stadium that could hold up to 50,000 for football and cover the upper deck with sheilders (not tarps) to make the stadium look more intimate and smaller for soccer crowds. Below is a rendering of the new Atlanta Falcons stadium concept for football and it's new MLS soccer team.

Soccer
http://archive.11alive.com/images/64...-stadium25.JPG

Football
http://prod.static.falcons.clubs.nfl...Stadium_CP.jpg

Yeah I had put that up tried to changed after I realized that no NFL Team currently shares a Stadium with a MLS Team

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Warren (Post 6628529)
IF Memphis were to be Granted an MLS Team it may lead to plans of a new Football Stadium or Real Deal Renovation of the Liberty Bowl if the Tigers will share it with them .

That's the trickiest part of all of it. The LBMS's field dimensions aren't big enough for a soccer field. As much as I wish they would build one, the UofM is continually looking past an on campus stadium. I enjoy games at the LBMS and think that is a fine venue, especially with the recent upgrades, but I think it would help the UofM out tremendously if they had an on campus stadium. As it is now, there's no reason for alumni to actually come back to campus. The only way I see it working out without the City being on the hook for money is if the UofM build an on campus football stadium that allowed an MLS team to play there. This won't ever be an issue from both sides of that equation.

From a City standpoint, they would have a hard time convincing anyone that a new smaller stadium specific for an MLS team is a good idea. They would either have to build a stadium large enough for the Liberty Bowl and SHC (50,000 or a little more) with enough suites or build a smaller stadium (18-20,000) just for the MLS team and then focus on operating two stadiums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628532)
That is true, but they are expected to get one of the last remaining spots. St Louis, Queens, and OKC are all said to be in the running. Memphis was mentioned as a potential candidate on a blog recently.

Memphis' chances will improve if the MLS decides to expand further to 30-32 teams which is possible with the high demand for expansion teams across America.

Do you have a link to this blog? I seriously have never heard anything about Memphis or OKC getting expansion teams. The Queens team is NYC FC that will be playing in Yankee Stadium. I don't know if they're still planning on the construction of a new soccer stadium near Citi Field or not.

STL has failed with two bids to get expansion teams. I don't know if they'll continue.

MEMFLY Jun 23, 2014 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Birchett (Post 6628561)
Hate to interrupt the MLS conversation...but we've got some breaking news on 100 North Main...

Hotel commits to 100 N. Main as developer faces questions
Memphis Business Journal
June 23, 2014
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...per-faces.html

Just when I thought this thing was dead, it looks like MBJ finally got through to him to get an interview.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Warren (Post 6628529)
I Wonder will team be able to play at the Liberty Bowl for temporary

No. The design is too narrow and the field isn't wide enough. If Memphis were to ever get a team they would have to agree on the building of a new stadium first to have ready in time for the team's inaugural season. This is what Atlanta is doing. They won't start play until the new Falcons stadium is built, set to open in summer 2017.

Most MLS stadiums cost around $60-100 million on average. A few have gone up to as much as $200 million in NY for Red Bull Arena which is an open-air stadium of 25,000 seats.

Memphis doesn't need anything big. A simple 19,500-seat stadium would be perfect for a smaller market like Memphis. Real Salt Lake City's stadium only seats 20,213. Below is an image of the Real SL Stadium.

http://www.laytonconstruction.com/Im...RioTinto_1.jpg

http://www.levyrestaurants.com/image...nto_header.jpg

Here's another stadium small enough for the size of Memphis. Pizza Hut Park in Firsco, TX seats 21,500. They held the D2 national championship football game there last year.

http://www.fabritecstructures.com/im...ut-park-04.jpg

http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/wp-con...a-hut-park.jpg

Pizza Hut Park was built in 2005 for only $80 million. ($96 million in 2014 dollars) And that's in Dallas, Texas market, meaning a stadium of 19,500 could be built for much less in Memphis. Plus, it would add more restaurants and shops in downtown and create a second and more modern entertainment district to compliment Beale Street. It would be perfect as part of a redevelopment of the South Main district just south of the FedEx Forum where there would be plenty of room for parking and growth for future development, say a new convention center. It would also create new jobs and demand in downtown.

Think BIG, Memphis!

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628566)
That's the trickiest part of all of it. The LBMS's field dimensions aren't big enough for a soccer field. As much as I wish they would build one, the UofM is continually looking past an on campus stadium. I enjoy games at the LBMS and think that is a fine venue, especially with the recent upgrades, but I think it would help the UofM out tremendously if they had an on campus stadium. As it is now, there's no reason for alumni to actually come back to campus. The only way I see it working out without the City being on the hook for money is if the UofM build an on campus football stadium that allowed an MLS team to play there. This won't ever be an issue from both sides of that equation.

From a City standpoint, they would have a hard time convincing anyone that a new smaller stadium specific for an MLS team is a good idea. They would either have to build a stadium large enough for the Liberty Bowl and SHC (50,000 or a little more) with enough suites or build a smaller stadium (18-20,000) just for the MLS team and then focus on operating two stadiums.



Do you have a link to this blog? I seriously have never heard anything about Memphis or OKC getting expansion teams. The Queens team is NYC FC that will be playing in Yankee Stadium. I don't know if they're still planning on the construction of a new soccer stadium near Citi Field or not.

STL has failed with two bids to get expansion teams. I don't know if they'll continue.

The blog mentioning Memphis. http://onthefire.com/2013/01/09/mls-...ake-it-happen/

Here's a blog article about a STL group trying to land a MLS franchise as of earlier this year. http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dai...usl_glavin.php

Memphis needs to start up a support group of its own and get the ball rolling. No pun intended.

P.S. if STL doesn't get a team, that opens the door for Memphis even more because there wouldn't be a nearby team outside of KC and Dallas. There's definitely a market for Memphis and MLS.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Birchett (Post 6628561)
Hotel commits to 100 N. Main as developer faces questions
Memphis Business Journal
June 23, 2014
http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...per-faces.html

That's pretty good. What's that like 1/3 of the building? I'm gonna be careful not too get overly excited about this, but it is promising that this news is out right now, especially after the tax and fraud situation...unless the hotel agreed to come on board and he wanted to save this info as damage control/repair after the tax and fraud info came out. Either way, it's good to know.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 5:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628594)
The blog mentioning Memphis. http://onthefire.com/2013/01/09/mls-...ake-it-happen/

Memphis needs to start up a support group of its own and get the ball rolling. No pun intended.

P.S. if STL doesn't get a team, that opens the door for Memphis even more because there wouldn't be a nearby team outside of KC and Dallas. There's definitely a market for Memphis and MLS.

A blog is all that would say. That's financially unfeasible, especially asking cities to build MLS ready stadiums playing in a relegation league. It seems to me like he just got a list of the top 50 cities by population in the US and added most of the ones without a team to that list. There's no rhyme or reason why he has Memphis on there, especially since he cites his train of thought for creating that list with cities that already have NASL and USL clubs.

Once again you have to look at the population numbers. STL has a CSA of 2.9 with an MSA of 2.7 compared to Memphis' 1.3. That's a huge difference. A league isn't going to sacrifice roughly 1.5 million is population support to save a "regional" audience.

DoomJ Jun 23, 2014 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628616)
A blog is all that would say. That's financially unfeasible, especially asking cities to build MLS ready stadiums playing in a relegation league. It seems to me like he just got a list of the top 50 cities by population in the US and added most of the ones without a team to that list. There's no rhyme or reason why he has Memphis on there, especially since he cites his train of thought for creating that list with cities that already have NASL and USL clubs.

Once again you have to look at the population numbers. STL has a CSA of 2.9 with an MSA of 2.7 compared to Memphis' 1.3. That's a huge difference. A league isn't going to sacrifice roughly 1.5 million is population support to save a "regional" audience.

There was a market saturation study published a couple years ago (I tried to find it but have not been successful yet) that rated a number of metropolitan areas on population, income, major sports (NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, MLS) franchises, and whether or not they could feasibly support their current franchises, and if so, whether they could feasibly handle an additional (or more) franchise and from what league.

I seem to remember St. Louis and Nashville classified as "oversaturated." This same study suggested Memphis could feasibly support the Grizzlies, and additionally, an MLS franchise. MLS was the only additional major sports franchise Memphis could feasibly support.

That being said, I can't find the study, but I'll keep my eyes peeled. Another thing to keep in mind regarding MLS and St. Louis, St. Louis is a traditional center of soccer in the United States. Everyone talks about "that time" when the United States was more of a power house in soccer in the early days, when they beat England 1-0 and came in 3rd at the World Cup. That national team was a largely St. Louis squad.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628631)
There was a market saturation study published a couple years ago (I tried to find it but have not been successful yet) that rated a number of metropolitan areas on population, income, major sports (NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, MLS) franchises, and whether or not they could feasibly support their current franchises, and if so, whether they could feasibly handle an additional (or more) franchise and from what league.

I seem to remember St. Louis and Nashville classified as "oversaturated." This same study suggested Memphis could feasibly support the Grizzlies, and additionally, an MLS franchise. MLS was the only additional major sports franchise Memphis could feasibly support.

That being said, I can't find the study, but I'll keep my eyes peeled. Another thing to keep in mind regarding MLS and St. Louis, St. Louis is a traditional center of soccer in the United States. Everyone talks about "that time" when the United States was more of a power house in soccer in the early days, when they beat England 1-0 and came in 3rd at the World Cup. That national team was a largely St. Louis squad.

You are correct! I remember seeing that posted on the MemphisTigers.Org forum a while back. It was a rough draft and somewhat blury, but you could read what it said for Memphis. Also, Memphis is ranked the 15th largest US city yet cities smaller have multiple sports franchises.

You have to remember another thing. Most of the visitors to Graceland and to Memphis come from overseas. That's where soccer is the #1 sport and having a team in Memphis would almost guarantee visitors attending the games while in town because of the love of the sport. The former NBA commissioner David Stern once said that the huge tourism of Graceland played a big role in the NBA's decision to move the team from Vancouver to Memphis. I'm just saying.

MEMFLY Jun 23, 2014 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628652)
You are correct! I remember seeing that posted on the MemphisTigers.Org forum a while back. It was a rough draft and somewhat blury, but you could read what it said for Memphis. Also, Memphis is ranked the 15th largest US city yet cities smaller have multiple sports franchises.

You have to remember another thing. Most of the visitors to Graceland and to Memphis come from overseas. That's where soccer is the #1 sport and having a team in Memphis would almost guarantee visitors attending the games while in town because of the love of the sport. The former NBA commissioner David Stern once said that the huge tourism of Graceland played a big role in the NBA's decision to move the team from Vancouver to Memphis. I'm just saying.

Needless to say someone (Other than the city) needs to pony up the money, and it would be quite a feet and most likely more expensive to build a stadium in say, south main compared to somewhere out here in Desoto County next to where I-69 is coming through.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628631)
There was a market saturation study published a couple years ago (I tried to find it but have not been successful yet) that rated a number of metropolitan areas on population, income, major sports (NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA, MLS) franchises, and whether or not they could feasibly support their current franchises, and if so, whether they could feasibly handle an additional (or more) franchise and from what league.

I seem to remember St. Louis and Nashville classified as "oversaturated." This same study suggested Memphis could feasibly support the Grizzlies, and additionally, an MLS franchise. MLS was the only additional major sports franchise Memphis could feasibly support.

That being said, I can't find the study, but I'll keep my eyes peeled. Another thing to keep in mind regarding MLS and St. Louis, St. Louis is a traditional center of soccer in the United States. Everyone talks about "that time" when the United States was more of a power house in soccer in the early days, when they beat England 1-0 and came in 3rd at the World Cup. That national team was a largely St. Louis squad.

I've seen the one you're talking about, but I haven't been able to find it. Here's one that I found that suggests that Memphis can't support the Grizzlies, but can support an MLS franchise. From a numbers run down there are many metro area's that support their various franchises well, but according to this study, they can't. One thing that plays into the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL markets are the huge tv contracts for the league which support smaller markets.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/co...m-a-good-home/

For comparison, this study says that ATL can support an NHL franchise, while Winnipeg can't. I don't know if very many of you follow the NHL or not, but that in itself could tell how accurate this is.

DoomJ Jun 23, 2014 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628668)
I've seen the one you're talking about, but I haven't been able to find it. Here's one that I found that suggests that Memphis can't support the Grizzlies, but can support an MLS franchise. From a numbers run down there are many metro area's that support their various franchises well, but according to this study, they can't. One thing that plays into the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL markets are the huge tv contracts for the league which support smaller markets.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/co...m-a-good-home/

For comparison, this study says that ATL can support an NHL franchise, while Winnipeg can't. I don't know if very many of you follow the NHL or not, but that in itself could tell how accurate this is.

Ah- that's the one I was talking about- it's not suggesting we can't support the Grizzlies, its asking if we can support a NEW professional franchise in the market given what we already have- which is why there is a "No" under the NBA and a "Yes" under the MLS.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 6:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628668)
I've seen the one you're talking about, but I haven't been able to find it. Here's one that I found that suggests that Memphis can't support the Grizzlies, but can support an MLS franchise. From a numbers run down there are many metro area's that support their various franchises well, but according to this study, they can't. One thing that plays into the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL markets are the huge tv contracts for the league which support smaller markets.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/co...m-a-good-home/

For comparison, this study says that ATL can support an NHL franchise, while Winnipeg can't. I don't know if very many of you follow the NHL or not, but that in itself could tell how accurate this is.

Atlanta did have an NHL team but it moved due to the lack of support. The Hawks have the worst support of any team in the NBA. The Braves attendance has been down the past few years despite being a playoff team. The Falcons are the only pro team in ATL that has steady fan support win or lose.

But my argument would be this. Memphis has and supports the NBA Grizzlies with passion. But does not have competition with another pro sports team in the city to challenge for fan support and city dollars. Memphis Redbirds are minor league baseball and the UM basketball does not count. Those ticket prices are not of a pro sports team. MLS has the lowest ticket prices of any major league sport which is why Memphis, despite a limited budget already, could still support both the Grizzlies and a MLS team.

Despite always being a football town, Memphis will never get an NFL franchise. That boat has unfortunately sailed and ain't coming back, thanks to Nashville. If they do, it'll be decades from now. And that would mean Nashville either loses its team or the NFL goes bunkers and expands to 40 teams.

MLB wouldn't be able to make it in Memphis because of high ticket prices. Plus the city would have to commit to a near billion dollar baseball specific stadium. Besides, Memphis ain't a true baseball town.

The NHL won't go to Memphis because, well, it's the whitest sport there is and Memphis ain't a white town. You have to know where your dollar is coming from.

That leaves the MLS. A major sports league that is blowing up to new heights. If Memphis doesn't get a MLS franchise, then they will never see another pro sports team call the bluff city their home. And that's really sad considering how large Memphis really is.

The big city that couldn't.

DoomJ Jun 23, 2014 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628668)
I've seen the one you're talking about, but I haven't been able to find it. Here's one that I found that suggests that Memphis can't support the Grizzlies, but can support an MLS franchise. From a numbers run down there are many metro area's that support their various franchises well, but according to this study, they can't. One thing that plays into the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL markets are the huge tv contracts for the league which support smaller markets.

http://wagesofwins.com/2011/10/31/co...m-a-good-home/

For comparison, this study says that ATL can support an NHL franchise, while Winnipeg can't. I don't know if very many of you follow the NHL or not, but that in itself could tell how accurate this is.

Oh, and as far as that last point, this is a strictly by-the-numbers chart. Obviously it can't account for culture. NHL, on paper, can work in Atlanta, and on paper, is too much for Winnipeg. But, Atlanta is a hockey vacuum, while hockey is the official religion of Winnipeg- which is why it works there.

Also makes sense when looking at major league baseball in Milwaukee. On paper, a horrible idea. But, the team has a long history with the place and is well-ingrained in the local culture, so it works.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628693)
Ah- that's the one I was talking about- it's not suggesting we can't support the Grizzlies, its asking if we can support a NEW professional franchise in the market given what we already have- which is why there is a "No" under the NBA and a "Yes" under the MLS.

I gotcha. I might have been confusing this one with another one that I found two or so years ago (maybe it was posted on UP) that was taking into account if a city could support a team regardless of the current situation. I want to think that only 10 or cities could on paper support all their teams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628702)
Atlanta did have an NHL team but it moved due to the lack of support. The Hawks have the worst support of any team in the NBA. The Braves attendance has been down the past few years despite being a playoff team. The Falcons are the only pro team in ATL that has steady fan support win or lose.

But my argument would be this. Memphis has and supports the NBA Grizzlies with passion. But does not have competition with another pro sports team in the city to challenge for fan support and city dollars. Memphis Redbirds are minor league baseball and the UM basketball does not count. Those ticket prices are not of a pro sports team. MLS has the lowest ticket prices of any major league sport which is why Memphis, despite a limited budget already, could still support both the Grizzlies and a MLS team.

Despite always being a football town, Memphis will never get an NFL franchise. That boat has unfortunately sailed and ain't coming back, thanks to Nashville. If they do, it'll be decades from now. And that would mean Nashville either loses its team or the NFL goes bunkers and expands to 40 teams.

MLB wouldn't be able to make it in Memphis because of high ticket prices. Plus the city would have to commit to a near billion dollar baseball specific stadium. Besides, Memphis ain't a true baseball town.

The NHL won't go to Memphis because, well, it's the whitest sport there is and Memphis ain't a white town. You have to know where your dollar is coming from.

That leaves the MLS. A major sports league that is blowing up to new heights. If Memphis doesn't get a MLS franchise, then they will never see another pro sports team call the bluff city their home. And that's really sad considering how large Memphis really is.

The big city that couldn't.

Atlanta has actually lost two NHL franchises. The Flames who are of course in Calgary now was the first.

I agree with all of this, but I have a hard time understanding how from a cultural and traditional standpoint you think Memphis could and would support an MLS team. The novelty of it would carry the franchise for a few seasons (if the corporate sponsorship is there), but long term, unless they were competing every year it wouldn't happen. Hell look at the Grizzlies, we all know that Memphis is a basketball town and they had pathetic attendance for stretches until the ZBO and Big Spain emergence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628705)
Oh, and as far as that last point, this is a strictly by-the-numbers chart. Obviously it can't account for culture. NHL, on paper, can work in Atlanta, and on paper, is too much for Winnipeg. But, Atlanta is a hockey vacuum, while hockey is the official religion of Winnipeg- which is why it works there.

Also makes sense when looking at major league baseball in Milwaukee. On paper, a horrible idea. But, the team has a long history with the place and is well-ingrained in the local culture, so it works.

That's exactly why I don't think the MLS would work here...just my opinion though.

DoomJ Jun 23, 2014 7:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628718)
That's exactly why I don't think the MLS would work here...just my opinion though.

Oh I don't disagree- I was just suggesting that, on paper, we could be a better choice than some larger markets, but yeah, I'm not certain what our "culture" on this sport would be. It would certainly appeal to the younger, millennial crowd we're trying to cultivate, maintain and retain, but that might not be near enough, no doubt.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 8:27 PM

The very same thing was said when the talks began about the Grizzlies moving to Memphis. Sure, it'll work for a few years then be an afterthought. But that has never been the case. The Grizzlies won over the community and is now becoming a potential contender.

This is what I meant about the mindset of Memphians. They do not look at the cup filled to the top. They only see it half empty. It's always been that way dating back more than a century. Being known as a big time city helps you grow economically. But Memphis doesn't because people would rather stay stuck in the past. That is why so many smaller markets are starting to surpass Memphis that never should.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 9:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628773)
Oh I don't disagree- I was just suggesting that, on paper, we could be a better choice than some larger markets, but yeah, I'm not certain what our "culture" on this sport would be. It would certainly appeal to the younger, millennial crowd we're trying to cultivate, maintain and retain, but that might not be near enough, no doubt.

I hear you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628857)
The very same thing was said when the talks began about the Grizzlies moving to Memphis. Sure, it'll work for a few years then be an afterthought. But that has never been the case. The Grizzlies won over the community and is now becoming a potential contender.

This is what I meant about the mindset of Memphians. They do not look at the cup filled to the top. They only see it half empty. It's always been that way dating back more than a century. Being known as a big time city helps you grow economically. But Memphis doesn't because people would rather stay stuck in the past. That is why so many smaller markets are starting to surpass Memphis that never should.

Not quite. Would it be good to have an MLS team in Memphis? Yes. Is it feasible? No. The only reason why we're discussing this is because it was mentioned in a blog that some guy maintains in his spare time. It would be different if the league itself had mentioned Memphis or if the City or an ownership group here had expressed interest in an expansion team.

This is an apples to oranges comparison if I've ever seen one.
The Grizzlies were already an established franchise(not in success, but the pure fact they already existed).

There was already a suitable venue in Memphis.

There had been success with former professional franchises in Memphis.

Memphis is a basketball town outside of youth and high school sports.

The NBA is an established league with marketable stars so even if (when they did) the Grizzlies sucked, they still sold tickets.

The venue(s) for the Grizzlies have been used for more than one particular event. Due to competition in the Memphis market, exactly what other event could escape the Forum's no compete clause that would be held at a new stadium rather than at an existing venue? Keep in mind when it's best to have outdoor events and when the MLS season takes place.

I understand what you're saying about Memphis being stuck in the past, but the MLS isn't a way out.

DoomJ Jun 23, 2014 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628857)
The very same thing was said when the talks began about the Grizzlies moving to Memphis. Sure, it'll work for a few years then be an afterthought. But that has never been the case. The Grizzlies won over the community and is now becoming a potential contender.

This is what I meant about the mindset of Memphians. They do not look at the cup filled to the top. They only see it half empty. It's always been that way dating back more than a century. Being known as a big time city helps you grow economically. But Memphis doesn't because people would rather stay stuck in the past. That is why so many smaller markets are starting to surpass Memphis that never should.

IMO you shouldn't be "overly positive" or "overly negative" about all things "Memphis". I'll tell you this: I have some friends with connections w/ people involved with the Grizzlies in varying capacities- there is interest among some locals with the wherewithal to do so to pursue an MLS team. I don't know if they will, but there's interest. It's a long shot. Let's be real. We're not the glamorous, hip place we'd like to think we are. We're unique and cool in our own way. Personally, I love this place and would love this to happen, but places like "Austin" or "Nashville" are more in-style at this time- and don't have the baggage we have. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen. Ultimately, figuring out our municipal finances, education issues, and making more of a dent in crime rates will have a far larger impact than luring another sports franchise, or building some expensive new convention center. If we take care of the things that really matter first, the bells and whistles of being a dynamic metropolitan center will come more naturally.

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6628899)
I hear you.



Not quite. Would it be good to have an MLS team in Memphis? Yes. Is it feasible? No. The only reason why we're discussing this is because it was mentioned in a blog that some guy maintains in his spare time. It would be different if the league itself had mentioned Memphis or if the City or an ownership group here had expressed interest in an expansion team.

This is an apples to oranges comparison if I've ever seen one.
The Grizzlies were already an established franchise(not in success, but the pure fact they already existed).

There was already a suitable venue in Memphis.

There had been success with former professional franchises in Memphis.

Memphis is a basketball town outside of youth and high school sports.

The NBA is an established league with marketable stars so even if (when they did) the Grizzlies sucked, they still sold tickets.

The venue(s) for the Grizzlies have been used for more than one particular event. Due to competition in the Memphis market, exactly what other event could escape the Forum's no compete clause that would be held at a new stadium rather than at an existing venue? Keep in mind when it's best to have outdoor events and when the MLS season takes place.

I understand what you're saying about Memphis being stuck in the past, but the MLS isn't a way out.

It's working for all the other cities. Why not Memphis? The city has corporate powers like Fed Ex, Autozone, Holiday Inn, EPE, etc all headquarted in Memphis. So it's most definitely feasible with potential corporate backing. For example, Fred Smith or Alan Graf could own the team (if interested) and Fed Ex could have stadium and team naming rights.

Memphis Express anyone?

Huntsvillenative Jun 23, 2014 9:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628909)
IMO you shouldn't be "overly positive" or "overly negative" about all things "Memphis". I'll tell you this: I have some friends with connections w/ people involved with the Grizzlies in varying capacities- there is interest among some locals with the wherewithal to do so to pursue an MLS team. I don't know if they will, but there's interest. It's a long shot. Let's be real. We're not the glamorous, hip place we'd like to think we are. We're unique and cool in our own way. Personally, I love this place and would love this to happen, but places like "Austin" or "Nashville" are more in-style at this time- and don't have the baggage we have. It's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen. Ultimately, figuring out our municipal finances, education issues, and making more of a dent in crime rates will have a far larger impact than luring another sports franchise, or building some expensive new convention center. If we take care of the things that really matter first, the bells and whistles of being a dynamic metropolitan center will come more naturally.

AWESOME news!!!!!!!!!!!! Now this is what I am talking about. Whether it happens or not, at least there's interest. Instead of just acting like it can't be done because it's Memphis as so many do there. That's how ATL got their new team. The owner of the Falcons, Author Blanks put up the money for the ATL team.

And to add to your last part. To clean up Memphis' problems will take new leadership at city hall, starting with cleaning house of the racists politicians like Henri Brooks and getting well creative minded professionals in there no matter their skin color and get over the race issues that have plagued Memphis for decades.

arkitekte Jun 23, 2014 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomJ (Post 6628909)
If we take care of the things that really matter first, the bells and whistles of being a dynamic metropolitan center will come more naturally.

It all starts with education, especially higher level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628914)
It's working for all the other cities. Why not Memphis? The city has corporate powers like Fed Ex, Autozone, Holiday Inn, EPE, etc all headquarted in Memphis. So it's most definitely feasible with potential corporate backing. For example, Fred Smith or Alan Graf could own the team (if interested) and Fed Ex could have stadium and team naming rights.

Memphis Express anyone?

What works for other cities doesn't necessarily mean it will work here. I could name numerous examples, but I won't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6628923)
AWESOME news!!!!!!!!!!!! Now this is what I am talking about. Whether it happens or not, at least there's interest. Instead of just acting like it can't be done because it's Memphis as so many do there. That's how ATL got their new team. The owner of the Falcons, Author Blanks put up the money for the ATL team.

And to add to your last part. To clean up Memphis' problems will take new leadership at city hall, starting with cleaning house of the racists politicians like Henri Brooks and getting well creative minded professionals in there no matter their skin color and get over the race issues that have plagued Memphis for decades.

Arthur Blank saw the MLS as a way to bring more revenue to the stadium that his Falcons are partially paying for. Henri Brooks is actually County, but I agree.

Wayward Memphian Jun 23, 2014 11:29 PM

Memphis is as much of a football town as it is basketball. The problem is that much of that passion lies in college teams not named the Memphis Tigers.

I've written about my desire for a new enclosed stadium downtown as part of a convention center and while my enthusiasm for such a facility has not waned, I am well aware of the fiscal challenges that face Memphis and Shelby Co. My idea has always centered on the primary tenant being the University of Memphis but with the ability to be used as exhibit space, a larger basketball venue for elite 8 rounds, a new home to the Liberty Bowl adjacent to Memphis' entertainment district and iconic buildings and lastly for a concert venue that calls for a stadium setting from time to time like U2 or other larger acts. I once posted one of the Atlanta proposals that had the end zones move in toward the center of the field. I think a stadium that was two levels with a good amount of loge seating and suites between two main levels that holds 25,000 on the lower and 15,000 on the upper with the ability to have the upper hidden when not in use would be ideal. I know that the new Atlanta stadium has a basketball layout but not like the one I liked (they went for the catchy enclosing roof design) and it's going to host soccer as well. So I guess a stadium in Memphis could do so as well. Atlanta's field is supposed to be the newertype of synthetic surface with the rubber beads, so I guess MLS allows synthetic so that shouldn't be an issue. I could see it being another venue for the Memphis in May Music Fest, Though I loved the idea of a big headliner playing the Island either right before, during or after the fest like Eric Clapton did this year.

I'll just throw the other pie in the skies out there once more while we are in conjecture mode. A Landry's Corp makeover for Mud Island like their Kemah Boardwalk and Galveston Pleasure Pier developments but with the added inclusion of a water park feature on the northern end. It's between two major interstates, one a north/south route and one a east/west route and the visibility would be incredible

http://themeparkreview.com/forum/fil...58768135_n.jpg
http://www.kemahboardwalk.com/flash/images/image_04.jpg

A redo of Cook Convention along the lines of the Crown Plaza in Kansas City if a new convo center is built. Think of this as the family entertainment district and weekend getaway tourist center.

Any of you been to Moody Gardens in Galveston? Three pyramids, one an aquarium, one a tropical rainforest and one a discovery center complete with an Imax and 4d theaters. I just said, why is this not in Memphis.
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/36714/moody_gardens.jpg



I would love to see the campus get a stadium but I never see that happening. That neighborhood would wail and wail to high heaven. I have given up on it happening in the next 10 t0 15 years because of the money that's been put into Tiger Lane and other stadium improvements. No matter how much it shines, its a turd. It's just like War Memorial Stadium in LR that Arkansas used in that respect. Schools that should be Memphis' peers like TCU, Houston and so own know that stadiums over 50,000 is worthless for their schools, the size erodes seat prices. The Liberty Bowl's suites are nearly as close to the Moon as the field.

Wayward Memphian Jun 23, 2014 11:56 PM

Oh, I like the idea of a Hotel Indigo, hope that gets all lined out.

I understand the proposed Hard Rock Hotel would be adjacent to the Lansky building and that is the preferred location if it should happen but what if it was the hotel feature of One Beale?

Huntsvillenative Jun 24, 2014 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian (Post 6629091)
Memphis is as much of a football town as it is basketball. The problem is that much of that passion lies in college teams not named the Memphis Tigers.

I've written about my desire for a new enclosed stadium downtown as part of a convention center and while my enthusiasm for such a facility has not waned, I am well aware of the fiscal challenges that face Memphis and Shelby Co. My idea has always centered on the primary tenant being the University of Memphis but with the ability to be used as exhibit space, a larger basketball venue for elite 8 rounds, a new home to the Liberty Bowl adjacent to Memphis' entertainment district and iconic buildings and lastly for a concert venue that calls for a stadium setting from time to time like U2 or other larger acts. I once posted one of the Atlanta proposals that had the end zones move in toward the center of the field. I think a stadium that was two levels with a good amount of loge seating and suites between two main levels that holds 25,000 on the lower and 15,000 on the upper with the ability to have the upper hidden when not in use would be ideal. I know that the new Atlanta stadium has a basketball layout but not like the one I liked (they went for the catchy enclosing roof design) and it's going to host soccer as well. So I guess a stadium in Memphis could do so as well. Atlanta's field is supposed to be the newertype of synthetic surface with the rubber beads, so I guess MLS allows synthetic so that shouldn't be an issue. I could see it being another venue for the Memphis in May Music Fest, Though I loved the idea of a big headliner playing the Island either right before, during or after the fest like Eric Clapton did this year.

I'll just throw the other pie in the skies out there once more while we are in conjecture mode. A Landry's Corp makeover for Mud Island like their Kemah Boardwalk and Galveston Pleasure Pier developments but with the added inclusion of a water park feature on the northern end. It's between two major interstates, one a north/south route and one a east/west route and the visibility would be incredible

http://themeparkreview.com/forum/fil...58768135_n.jpg
http://www.kemahboardwalk.com/flash/images/image_04.jpg

A redo of Cook Convention along the lines of the Crown Plaza in Kansas City if a new convo center is built. Think of this as the family entertainment district and weekend getaway tourist center.

Any of you been to Moody Gardens in Galveston? Three pyramids, one an aquarium, one a tropical rainforest and one a discovery center complete with an Imax and 4d theaters. I just said, why is this not in Memphis.
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/36714/moody_gardens.jpg



I would love to see the campus get a stadium but I never see that happening. That neighborhood would wail and wail to high heaven. I have given up on it happening in the next 10 t0 15 years because of the money that's been put into Tiger Lane and other stadium improvements. No matter how much it shines, its a turd. It's just like War Memorial Stadium in LR that Arkansas used in that respect. Schools that should be Memphis' peers like TCU, Houston and so own know that stadiums over 50,000 is worthless for their schools, the size erodes seat prices. The Liberty Bowl's suites are nearly as close to the Moon as the field.

This guy gets it. :cheers:

Chris Warren Jun 24, 2014 1:04 AM

I really hope Hotel Indigo will get a sign put on 100 North Main. To be honest I would rather have more Hotel rooms in 100 NM and less Apartments.

Chris Warren Jun 24, 2014 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian (Post 6629129)
Oh, I like the idea of a Hotel Indigo, hope that gets all lined out.

I understand the proposed Hard Rock Hotel would be adjacent to the Lansky building and that is the preferred location if it should happen but what if it was the hotel feature of One Beale?

Or what if the planners put an Omni Hotel in One Beale and maybe added some more floors that way it would be more hotel rooms.

MEMFLY Jun 24, 2014 2:00 AM

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...per-faces.html
Quote:

Contacted via email today, an InterContinental representative said a license agreement hasn't been signed for a Hotel Indigo project in Memphis.
um....

arkitekte Jun 24, 2014 2:15 AM

^^^That's odd. I guess in theory he could have been in "talks" with InterContinental about them having a hotel within 100 N. Main and of course they're not going to say that they agreed to it have unless they've actually signed an agreement, and still it would be conditional to a certain extent. On the other hand, if he's lying, which I don't think he is necessarily, mentioning the specifics is pretty odd unless that 171 rooms is just a ball park figure.

Or maybe it's a Holiday Inn and not a Hotel Indigo.:haha:

Wayward Memphian Jun 24, 2014 2:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huntsvillenative (Post 6629152)
This guy gets it. :cheers:


Had a friend from Olive Branch spend a week in Nashville at Gaylord, by day three they were bored to death. She was on the facepages asking for ideas.

Memphis has a chance to become a solid family weekend get away if it is actually exploited and it has a solid zoo to start with. YOu could recreate mch of that Moody Gardens concept on Mud Island and turn it into a 365 day attraction. It could allow the Zoo a second campus to focus on things indoors like a better aquarium and aviary and allowing space for more outdoors exhibits at the main location. Imagine the Island's riverwalk decked out for Christmas with an ice rink at the old Memphis Belle pavilion. I don't want to hear any bitching about the weather cause I've seen massive crowds in the cold at SDC in Branson for their Christmas season when many of the rides do not operate below 40 degrees. Coming to Memphis on I 40, I haven't seen a single billboard telling folks that Memphis Zoo has Pandas, a true, rare asset for the zoo in a long time. How many families drive through Memphis without knowing that and planting a seed in their minds?

Trevor Birchett Jun 24, 2014 3:26 AM

There have been some really some great ideas coming up here on the forum in the last few days. As much as I would love to see every single one of the ideas implemented, I just can't see it happening with the current state of the city. Our city has such amazing potential, but it seems like some of the leaders aren't bringing the city to it's full potential.

First of all, Mud Island. There is SUCH great potential there, and it's only open for a few months out of the year. Keep it open all year round and really try to develop it. As mentioned before, add a ferris wheel, some rides, and try to really make it into something. Money could be charged for the rides and of course the monorail to the island.

Secondly...the fairgrounds. Let's be real. I can't see it doing to well even with a revitalization. The whole area, especially to the immediate south, is very dilapidated and would require a major overhaul to really draw people in.

Then comes the convention center. Memphis is in such a centralized location that we could really benefit from having a state-of-the-art location for conventions to be held and people from all over to come in. This would also give a boost to the airport and general tourism.

I don't know if it was posted...but apparently they are going to spend something like $16 million (don't quote me) to revitalize the Raleigh Springs Mall of all things. I don't know who's idea it was...but it obviously wasn't thought through. Raleigh is also in a decline and has always seemed like more of a residential neighborhood compared to a shopping center destination.

Hopefully a few smaller projects like mentioned above can give a monetary boost and help to fund even larger developments in the future.

Memphis is in a great location, especially Downtown right between 55 and 40. We have a ton of potential and I really would love to see that potential demonstrated sooner rather than later.

arkitekte Jun 24, 2014 3:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Birchett (Post 6629426)
Secondly...the fairgrounds. Let's be real. I can't see it doing to well even with a revitalization. The whole area, especially to the immediate south, is very dilapidated and would require a major overhaul to really draw people in.

You consider Chickasaw Gardens and Cooper Young dilapidated? Party at your house next weekend?

Quote:

Then comes the convention center. Memphis is in such a centralized location that we could really benefit from having a state-of-the-art location for conventions to be held and people from all over to come in. This would also give a boost to the airport and general tourism.
Eventually (hopefully) the City will get the ball rolling on this, but with the financial issues that they're currently having I don't see anything in the near future happening.

Quote:

I don't know if it was posted...but apparently they are going to spend something like $16 million (don't quote me) to revitalize the Raleigh Springs Mall of all things. I don't know who's idea it was...but it obviously wasn't thought through. Raleigh is also in a decline and has always seemed like more of a residential neighborhood compared to a shopping center destination.
That's part of the City's plan to fight blight, which is a good plan. How they've handled Raleigh Springs Mall lately is somewhat disappointing, but it is up to the City to try to redevelop these various neighborhoods. The residents have some role to play in that redevelopment, but not every neighborhood can sustain the wealth, upkeep, and infrastructure that others can.

Trevor Birchett Jun 24, 2014 3:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6629455)
You consider Chickasaw Gardens and Cooper Young dilapidated? Party at your house next weekend?

Was thinking more Airways/Lamar

arkitekte Jun 24, 2014 3:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor Birchett (Post 6629458)
Was thinking more Airways/Lamar

That's not exactly next door to the fairgrounds. FWIW, I don't particularly like the fairgrounds proposal in whole, but not for the reason of the area being "dilapidated", which it's far from.

Huntsvillenative Jun 24, 2014 4:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian (Post 6629358)
Had a friend from Olive Branch spend a week in Nashville at Gaylord, by day three they were bored to death. She was on the facepages asking for ideas.

Memphis has a chance to become a solid family weekend get away if it is actually exploited and it has a solid zoo to start with. YOu could recreate mch of that Moody Gardens concept on Mud Island and turn it into a 365 day attraction. It could allow the Zoo a second campus to focus on things indoors like a better aquarium and aviary and allowing space for more outdoors exhibits at the main location. Imagine the Island's riverwalk decked out for Christmas with an ice rink at the old Memphis Belle pavilion. I don't want to hear any bitching about the weather cause I've seen massive crowds in the cold at SDC in Branson for their Christmas season when many of the rides do not operate below 40 degrees. Coming to Memphis on I 40, I haven't seen a single billboard telling folks that Memphis Zoo has Pandas, a true, rare asset for the zoo in a long time. How many families drive through Memphis without knowing that and planting a seed in their minds?

There's a lot of undeveloped land north and east of Memphis and in Southaven to Horn Lake for a developer to build a musical-themed park built around different musical genres with live entertainment, restaurants and shops. The Circle G Ranch that Elvis used to own is now under a new owner who happens to be a commerical developer from Destin, FL and has big plans for the 231 acres he just bought. Possibly an entertainment complex like City Walk in Orlando with shops and dining surrounding the big 14-acre lake on the ranch.

A redevelopment of Mudd Island should be a big priority to the city for tourists and revenue stream. Take advantage of the Pyramid redevelopment while you can. Turn Mudd Island into a money making tourist attraction. Put a 30-story observation wheel on the island. Place a roof over the outdoor amphitheater. Maybe build an unique underwater aquarium. Of course all of this would cost a lot of public dollars, but in the long run the city would make more back.

Memphis should really take advantage of its musical heritage more like Nashville and New Orleans has. Promote it and even develop thematic attractions to tie in with Graceland, Sun and Stax. The Memphis Music HOF will be a start. Also push to get the Grammy HOF Museum relocated to Memphis.

The city should also take advantage of having arguably the top premier zoo in America that is getting bigger.

But you are absolutely right about it becoming a week long tourist destination. For example:

Monday-Civil Rights Museum
Tuesday-Graceland
Wednesday-Pyramid Bass Pro Shop attraction
Thursday-Zoo
Friday- Sun and Stax
Saturday-Mudd Island

There's just so much untapped potential in Memphis. If the people living there could just see it as outsiders do.

Wayward Memphian Jun 24, 2014 4:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkitekte (Post 6629463)
That's not exactly next door to the fairgrounds. FWIW, I don't particularly like the fairgrounds proposal in whole, but not for the reason of the area being "dilapidated", which it's far from.

I get what Memphis is trying to do at the Fairgrounds with all the plans for ball fields and such. I follow ballpark development quite intently and there's a trend that continues to grow on tournament tourism. Memphis' fairgrounds plan is a little more broad in that it clearly looks like it wants to host major AAU basketball events in addition to baseball events. I don't have much confidence it can be pulled off.

Atlanta has this development that's similar to the plan but includes some other aspects like a water park, retail and a once pitched tower coaster that has seemed to have been recently nixed called Lakepoint Sporting Community. Another is a recently proposed complex in Branson Mo. that takes an old, closed outlet mall and turns the most of the parking into little league replicas of famous MLB stadiums like Fenway and Wrigley. The mall buildings would be renovated to serve as team dorms, training centers like batting cages and seasonal retail and food outlets. They want nearly 200 days of tourneys every year.

Couple of places to keep up with that kind of stuff is ballpark biz and ballpark digest.

arkitekte Jun 24, 2014 8:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward Memphian (Post 6629507)
I get what Memphis is trying to do at the Fairgrounds with all the plans for ball fields and such. I follow ballpark development quite intently and there's a trend that continues to grow on tournament tourism. Memphis' fairgrounds plan is a little more broad in that it clearly looks like it wants to host major AAU basketball events in addition to baseball events. I don't have much confidence it can be pulled off.

I agree. If anything the fairgrounds should be redeveloped with more of a community focus. The KROC Center is a perfect example and use of that location, imo. A small scaled retail aspect and upgrades to the high school track and field would also be good...I can't remember if that field is to be replaced or just completely done away with in the redevelopment proposal.


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