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nname Feb 7, 2022 6:38 PM

AC S22 Change

So the reduction had begun...

AC plan to consolidate Tokyo flight to NRT again, currently scheduled to have
1x daily YVR with 789
5x weekly YYZ with 788 (AC21/22)
2x weekly YUL with 788

Flight reduction to ICN:
5x weekly YVR
4x weekly YYZ

All PVG flights are replaced by 789

YYZ-MUC moved up from AC836 to AC834, replacing the slot originally for YYZ-BRU. So along with cancellation of YVR-CDG (AC838), that leaves 2 slots possibly for MUC, FRA (AC840-848) or maybe another German city. New routes/frequency coming soon...?

hollywoodcory Feb 7, 2022 6:42 PM

WS extends cuts into March.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...per-cent-throu

The press release is basically a rant against the mandatory PCR testing to enter Canada.

March bookings were looking pretty good last time I checked.

Dominion301 Feb 7, 2022 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9527877)
WS extends cuts into March.

https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...per-cent-throu

The press release is basically a rant against the mandatory PCR testing to enter Canada.

March bookings were looking pretty good last time I checked.

Blah, blah, blah...or maybe it's simply the majority of Canadians still don't want to fly during a global pandemic.

whatnext Feb 7, 2022 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9527965)
Blah, blah, blah...or maybe it's simply the majority of Canadians still don't want to fly during a global pandemic.

A bit of both. The testing requirement for entering the country has outlived its usefulness. It should go.

thewave46 Feb 7, 2022 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9527606)
Two ULCC's in the States are merging. Frontier and Spirit.

Complete opposite of what we are seeing in this country.

Frontier and Spirit are successful, though.

Here, Flair’s long-term survival is an open question and other fools are throwing cash into the fire on an unproven concept in this market.

Long term prediction: Swoop survives due to Westjet’s backing, remains the only ULCC option because Westjet uses it to stomp upstarts.

casper Feb 7, 2022 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9527675)
Yep & currently (if) Canada were to see Airlines mergers at some point.

Air Canada merger with Air Transat is the most likely 1st✅.
WestJet merges probably with Sunwing,(as they already work closely together selling vacation packages for flights).
Porter with 1 of Flair or Lynx?

The Air Canada and Air Transat merger was blocked by the EU. This is due to the reduction of competition of certain key European markets. I don't think they will try again.

WestJet and AirTransat are now code-sharing on multiple routes. If there is any merger it will likely be between them. Also WS has never figured out how to serve the Montreal market. That is something Air Transat provides depths.

Sunwing is not an airline in the sense they don't care if anyone buys flights on the airline. Most of their passengers seats are sold to their parent company that bundles the air with hotel rooms and resells them as all inclusive packages. As long as it costs less to operate Sunwing than purchase seats on one of the others they will continue to exist.

Calfan12 Feb 7, 2022 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9527965)
Blah, blah, blah...or maybe it's simply the majority of Canadians still don't want to fly during a global pandemic.

Yep & that’s why Air Canada, WestJet, Air Transat, Porter, Flair, Sunwing & Lynx etc are going to continue to consolidate most of flights ✈️ & passengers through their main busiest hubs/bases.

Basically all major Airlines around the World are doing it too✅!

Won’t be changing anytime soon.

thewave46 Feb 7, 2022 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9528079)
The Air Canada and Air Transat merger was blocked by the EU. This is due to the reduction of competition of certain key European markets. I don't think they will try again.

WestJet and AirTransat are now code-sharing on multiple routes. If there is any merger it will likely be between them. Also WS has never figured out how to serve the Montreal market. That is something Air Transat provides depths.

Sunwing is not an airline in the sense they don't care if anyone buys flights on the airline. Most of their passengers seats are sold to their parent company that bundles the air with hotel rooms and resells them as all inclusive packages. As long as it costs less to operate Sunwing than purchase seats on one of the others they will continue to exist.

If Onex purchased Air Transat and continued to run it separately from Westjet on the surface (you could share resources behind the scenes) but did a codeshare with Westjet, that might work. Westjet gets a bunch of inroads into Quebec and Europe, AT gets feed from the rest of the country via Westjet to help fill flights.

From a branding point of view, it wouldn’t alienate anyone, while actually making the airline into a national one. It would keep each of the airlines off the other’s turf too.

DoubleK Feb 7, 2022 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9527606)
Two ULCC's in the States are merging. Frontier and Spirit.

Complete opposite of what we are seeing in this country.

Is Allegiant considered ULCC?

People_talking Feb 7, 2022 10:12 PM

Im pretty sure Allegiant, Sun Country and Breeze are all considered ULCC no?

esquire Feb 7, 2022 10:23 PM

Allegiant is a ULCC but it's smaller than the others in terms of their route network, though. Most of their business is funneling people from smaller cities into Vegas and sun destinations, it's not quite the same as Frontier/Spirit.

Dominion301 Feb 8, 2022 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9527859)
So Flair's flight numbering scheme is now clear... Seems like for most of the new flights, it is number as

1xx - flights to/from YYZ hub
2xx - flights to/from YVR hub
5xx - YKF
6xx - YXX
7xx - YEG

Still not clear for the other hubs...

Second daily flight add "1" in front, third daily flight add "2"

So for YYC-YXX, it's flight 602, 1602, and 2602.

It seems as if the flights indicate what base operates the flights. 3XX is YOW. The only non 3XX flight numbers are 6XX for YXX (likely YXX crew-operated) and 1XX for YWG (likely YYZ crew-operated in a W pattern).

YYC's base seems to be 8XX. YYC-YLW is 5XX, so it must originate at YKF.

YUL-YYC is 9XX, while YUL-YHZ is 8XX, so who knows there.

Dominion301 Feb 8, 2022 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by People_talking (Post 9528177)
Im pretty sure Allegiant, Sun Country and Breeze are all considered ULCC no?

And now Avelo too.

Frontier and Spirit merging will make them bigger than JetBlue. It'll likely get approved by the DOT as their networks don't overlap very much.

Calfan12 Feb 8, 2022 6:24 AM

WestJet’s Sunmer 2022 schedules currently looks like it’s focusing on its 3 busiest hubs at Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ & Vancouver YVR with more flights/additional frequencies, which not that surprising!!

A good example of it :WS YYC - Abbotsford YXX currently is 3x daily & Summer upto 6x daily.

Dominion301 Feb 8, 2022 4:43 PM

YEG's getting an additional $10M from Transport Canada: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...892350135.html

Quote:

The funding, from Transport Canada's Airport Critical Infrastructure Program, will support investments in:
-information technology infrastructure, including new hardware, software, network and data facilities, to increase security and better protect the airport from potential cybersecurity and system attacks;
-the replacement of critical infrastructure to enhance the efficiency and security of airport check-in and boarding; and
-projects to enable COVID-19 testing and screening at the airport.

Dominion301 Feb 8, 2022 4:45 PM

AC's newest 223 has a Disney promo:

https://mma.prnewswire.com/media/174....jpg?p=publish

Dominion301 Feb 8, 2022 4:48 PM

YMM and five unnamed AB regional airports are also getting Transport Canada funding: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...840347295.html

Quote:

To help ensure safe airport operations for aircraft, passengers and crews, the airport will receive $2.7 million from Transport Canada's Airport Critical Infrastructure Program to support upgrades to the airfield lighting system and to purchase new snow removal equipment.

nname Feb 8, 2022 7:30 PM

Seems like SK will add ARN-YYZ and CPH-YYZ for S22.

thenoflyzone Feb 8, 2022 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9529244)
Seems like SK will add ARN-YYZ and CPH-YYZ for S22.

About time they start YYZ. Both routes will be flown with the A321LR.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...to-to-network/

JakeLRS Feb 9, 2022 2:42 AM

Swoop added Charlottetown and Moncton last week and are adding Deer Lake and Saint John this week to its Summer program.

All from either YEG,YHM,YYZ.

thewave46 Feb 9, 2022 2:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9529630)
About time they start YYZ. Both routes will be flown with the A321LR.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...to-to-network/

The newest generation of narrowbody aircraft sure has legs.

It wasn’t long ago that Pearson to Europe was a widebody mandated trip.

I look forward to increased secondary European destination options from YYZ.

zahav Feb 9, 2022 3:25 AM

Yes the use of longer range narrow bodies is really a boon for airports within thie range, it really makes so many more destinations possible. Toronto was really a natural choice, and the split between both CPH and ARN is good, rather than daily one or the other.

Calfan12 Feb 9, 2022 8:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9529848)
Swoop added Charlottetown and Moncton last week and are adding Deer Lake and Saint John this week to its Summer program.

All from either YEG,YHM,YYZ.

A signal WestJet plans to (possibly) add these seasonal Canada flights to Moncton, Saint John & Deer Lake also on its Mainline from their hub in Calgary YYC? Will see when WS officially announces their full Summer 2022 schedules in the coming weeks.

WestJet mainline already operates YYC - Charlottetown PEI during Summer seasonally.

thenoflyzone Feb 9, 2022 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9529851)
The newest generation of narrowbody aircraft sure has legs.

It wasn’t long ago that Pearson to Europe was a widebody mandated trip.

I look forward to increased secondary European destination options from YYZ.

Agreed. A few things to consider though.

The A321LR range is 4,000 nm, no wind. ARN-YYZ is over 3,400 nm. Should be fine in the summer, but it will be interesting to see this route operate westbound in the dead of winter, with those nasty headwinds, which can easily add 1-2 hours to the flight time compared to the summer ops.

CO/UA operated their B757s (same range as the -LR) on TXL-EWR (almost same distance as ARN-YYZ) for years, and diversions were pretty standard in the winter months.

One thing going for SAS is that their A321LRs don't have many seats. Only 157 seats in a 3 class configuration. Compare that to TS, which has 199 seats on their A321LR's. So SAS should be able to fly further will a full passenger load.

When it comes to the -LR, this route is probably at the limits of what the plane can do, consistently, year round. Anything further would require the extra legs of the -XLR.

Dominion301 Feb 9, 2022 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9529848)
Swoop added Charlottetown and Moncton last week and are adding Deer Lake and Saint John this week to its Summer program.

All from either YEG,YHM,YYZ.

So the new Atlantic Canada routes are with peak weekly frequencies:

YDF-YHM-YEG 1x
YDF-YHM 1x
YDF-YYZ 2x
YYT-YHM 5x
YYG-YYZ 2x
YYG-YHM-YEG 2x
YYG-YHM 2x
YHZ-YOW-YWG 4x - plus AC, WS, F8 & PD on the route
YHZ-YOW-YEG 1x
YHZ-YOW 2x
YQM-YHM-YEG 2x
YQM-YHM 2x
YSJ-YYZ 4x - sort of welcome back WS to YSJ

whatnext Feb 10, 2022 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9529851)
The newest generation of narrowbody aircraft sure has legs.

It wasn’t long ago that Pearson to Europe was a widebody mandated trip.

I look forward to increased secondary European destination options from YYZ.

More's the pity. This is a step backward. Widebodies are way better in terms of passenger comfort.

esquire Feb 10, 2022 1:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9531248)
More's the pity. This is a step backward. Widebodies are way better in terms of passenger comfort.

How so? Seating on the SAS A321LRs looks identical to what you would expect to see on a widebody. Lie-flat business, spacious premium economy seats and regular economy.

Truenorth00 Feb 10, 2022 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9531248)
More's the pity. This is a step backward. Widebodies are way better in terms of passenger comfort.

Not really. I'd rather have an 18" wide seat on a 321LR than a 17" wide seat on a 9-abreast 787.

Also, the long range narrowbodies should open up more secondary and tertiary cities, reducing connections. Huge for cities like Halifax, Quebec City, Ottawa and Edmonton.

Dominion301 Feb 10, 2022 3:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9531308)
Not really. I'd rather have an 18" wide seat on a 321LR than a 17" wide seat on a 9-abreast 787.

Also, the long range narrowbodies should open up more secondary and tertiary cities, reducing connections. Huge for cities like Halifax, Quebec City, Ottawa and Edmonton.

100% agree.

Dominion301 Feb 10, 2022 3:18 AM

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...897878110.html

Swoop's expansion includes another surprise. For their next six tails, instead of hand-me-down 738s, they're getting part of WS' order of factory-new 7M8s.

YYCguys Feb 10, 2022 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9531398)
https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...897878110.html

Swoop's expansion includes another surprise. For their next six tails, instead of hand-me-down 738s, they're getting part of WS' order of factory-new 7M8s.

I thought Swoop wasn’t going to poach Westjet’s routes. Many of their routes are former (or current) Westjet routes! Is Westjet just willingly handing over all these routes to Swoop?

Calfan12 Feb 10, 2022 6:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9531438)
I thought Swoop wasn’t going to poach Westjet’s routes. Many of their routes are former (or current) Westjet routes! Is Westjet just willingly handing over all these routes to Swoop?

What WestJet wants to do is keep Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ and Vancouver YVR their 3 busiest hubs as Premium as possible on its WS Mainline flights & yes there will be also some cheaper fares available in Economy seating on WS mainline too for YYC, YYZ & YVR. Basically it's a mix of both types.
WestJet's larger 787's planes only operate mainly on flights to/from YYC,YYZ & YVR is good signal of it✅!!

Majority of the Swoop flights in Edmonton, Toronto & Smaller Airports in Canada are to compete with Flair or Lynx for Leisurely passengers (who usually pay for cheaper low cost type of fares in Economy). As Swoop planes have "no Premium Seating"!

jamincan Feb 10, 2022 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9531308)
Not really. I'd rather have an 18" wide seat on a 321LR than a 17" wide seat on a 9-abreast 787.

Also, the long range narrowbodies should open up more secondary and tertiary cities, reducing connections. Huge for cities like Halifax, Quebec City, Ottawa and Edmonton.

RIP the 2-3-2 on 767s. :(

Dominion301 Feb 10, 2022 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9531438)
I thought Swoop wasn’t going to poach Westjet’s routes. Many of their routes are former (or current) Westjet routes! Is Westjet just willingly handing over all these routes to Swoop?

The WS mainline pilots collective allows for a max of 20 tails at Swoop. Evidently no contractual language on where they can & can't use them. Seems rather strange to compete with yourself as I doubt they'll pull mainline from many of the ones that already have WS.

Even back in AC's ZIP days, I don't remember them doing that. However, ZIP was a separate AOC and they didn't interline with mainline/Jazz. They did have mainline/Jazz overlap with Tango, but that wasn't a separate AOC, just some all-Y 320s and 732s, but as I recall Tango didn't interline with mainline & Jazz.

Rouge doesn't compete with mainline at AC, even if pre-pandemic a couple of routes were a mix of rouge and express (e.g. YQB-YUL/YYZ).

Truenorth00 Feb 10, 2022 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamincan (Post 9531587)
RIP the 2-3-2 on 767s. :(

Yeah. I like the 767s and 330s for this reason.

I have come to detest later Boeing airplanes, specifically because they design their airplanes to allow airlines to stuff me in a 17" seat. All, as people get wider globally.

whatnext Feb 11, 2022 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9531291)
How so? Seating on the SAS A321LRs looks identical to what you would expect to see on a widebody. Lie-flat business, spacious premium economy seats and regular economy.

Simple, two rows give you another exit route for safety and for comfort.

Calfan12 Feb 11, 2022 10:15 AM

United Airlines has resumed Houston IAH, US - Calgary YYC,Canada flights ✈️ again on February 10 2022 ,1x daily. (As this UA route was suspended since mid March 2020 due to the pandemic).

esquire Feb 11, 2022 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9532716)
Simple, two rows give you another exit route for safety and for comfort.

The safety of the second row is diminished by the fact that a widebody has way more people using them. And the second row does nothing to improve my personal comfort.

The only thing that I will give to widebodies is that the economy washrooms tend to be a bit more spacious. I was shocked by the tiny closet lavs at the back of the AC 737 Max, it would be annoying to put up with that on a trip to Europe, for instance.

Coldrsx Feb 11, 2022 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 9532580)
Yeah. I like the 767s and 330s for this reason.

I have come to detest later Boeing airplanes, specifically because they design their airplanes to allow airlines to stuff me in a 17" seat. All, as people get wider globally.

Concur in full.

2-3-2 was amazing for travelling with your partner.

Dominion301 Feb 11, 2022 8:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9532716)
Simple, two rows give you another exit route for safety and for comfort.

Safety is no different...unless the narrowbody is full and the widebody is 3/4 empty...but the same could be true in reverse. All commercial airliners have to meet the same evacuation timeline requirements in order to be TC-certified airworthy and they're based on an aircraft's max seating capacity being full.

Dominion301 Feb 11, 2022 8:22 PM

Air Canada Salutes its Black Employees; Launches Inaugural Black History Celebratory Flight

Very nice AC.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...806714249.html

Calfan12 Feb 14, 2022 5:23 PM

According to an update from Calgary YYC Spotters Facebook page. Lynx Air’s 1st new Boeing Max 737 Max8 will be delivered its Calgary Hub this Monday February 14 2022 .

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1586...7315069380176/

JakeLRS Feb 14, 2022 10:38 PM

THE ULCC'S ARE FIGHTING AGAIN

Swoop launching:

Burbank-Edmonton
Chicago-Toronto
Nashville-Toronto
Nashville-Edmonton
New York (JFK) - Toronto
San Francisco - Edmonton

All of which are routes Flair announced back in December.

Also, Flair is getting set to announce another American expansion tonight, unclear of which routes yet though.

Coldrsx Feb 14, 2022 10:46 PM

Let the games begin!

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9536559)
THE ULCC'S ARE FIGHTING AGAIN

Swoop launching:

Burbank-Edmonton
Chicago-Toronto
Nashville-Toronto
Nashville-Edmonton
New York (JFK) - Toronto
San Francisco - Edmonton

All of which are routes Flair announced back in December.

Also, Flair is getting set to announce another American expansion tonight, unclear of which routes yet though.

Yep,Toronto YYZ will benefit again when WestJet officially announces its Summer 2022 flight schedules in the coming weeks & we know Calgary YYC & Vancouver YVR will also too!!

Also with Swoop & Flair adding more US affordable flights at Edmonton YEG, benefits Calgary YYC in Alberta too as US main airlines like Delta, United, American and Alaska are battling it out there for a good mix of Business/Premium/Leisurely passengers in the YYC market.
As YEG market the past several years has seen cuts made by US carriers & currently it’s mainly mostly WestJet, Swoop & Flair doing alot of the US flying.

casper Feb 15, 2022 2:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9536559)
THE ULCC'S ARE FIGHTING AGAIN

Swoop launching:

Burbank-Edmonton
Chicago-Toronto
Nashville-Toronto
Nashville-Edmonton
New York (JFK) - Toronto
San Francisco - Edmonton

All of which are routes Flair announced back in December.

Also, Flair is getting set to announce another American expansion tonight, unclear of which routes yet though.

Clearly WS is working on killing off Flair. That is good to see. Surprised Air Canada is not jumping in as well.

The JFK route is the odd one. I would have thought WS would have used mainline on that one instead of putting under the Swoop brand.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 2:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9536740)
Clearly WS is working on killing off Flair. That is good to see. Surprised Air Canada is not jumping in as well.

The JFK route is the odd one. I would have thought WS would have used mainline on that one instead of putting under the Swoop brand.


Because Delta Airlines, WestJet’s code sharing partner will be back on the Toronto YYZ-New York JFK route with 3 daily nonstop flights in June 2022 operated by Delta CRJ 900 planes ✈️. They will give Flair competition on it for sure✅!

Along with Swoop on YYZ- JFK too.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 2:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9536740)
Clearly WS is working on killing off Flair. That is good to see. Surprised Air Canada is not jumping in as well.

The JFK route is the odd one. I would have thought WS would have used mainline on that one instead of putting under the Swoop brand.

WestJet will still have its mainline Boeing 737’s flying to New York City also too on Calgary YYC - New York JFK & Toronto YYZ - New York LaGuardia (LGA) flight routes.

The reason Air Canada not jumping in on the JFk routing as they’re currently focused on competing out of New York LaGuardia & Newark EWR, New York City’s other 2 busiest US Airports.

LO 044 Feb 15, 2022 3:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9536740)
Clearly WS is working on killing off Flair. That is good to see.

Why is it good to see?

MountainView Feb 15, 2022 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9536812)
Why is it good to see?

Agreed. Why is this good to see? The second Flair goes bust (not hoping for this), Swoop will pull any non-profitable flights and there will be no YEG-BNA flights. This competition certainly helps the purchaser/flier right now, especially from these airports (mainly YEG). And the ULCC's will stimulate demand that wasn't naturally there before.... Oh I can go to SFO for the weekend for cheap? Ok... why not!?


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