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Dominion301 Nov 11, 2021 2:19 AM

YYZ Q3 results and YTD results: https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...869231167.html

Quote:

Passenger activity increased 190.0 per cent for the third quarter of 2021 and decreased 41.8 per cent during the first nine months of 2021 as compared to the same periods of 2020, respectively.
Sector / Q3 2021 Q3 2020 Change # Change % / YTD 2021 YTD 2020 Change # Change %
Domestic........2.9M 1.1M +1.8M +165.3% / 4.1M 4.6M -0.5M -10.7%
International...1.8M 0.6M +1.2M +239.4% / 2.7M 7.2M -4.5M -61.8%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total..............4.7M 1.7M +3.0M +190.0% / 6.8M 11.8M -5.0M -41.8%

SpongeG Nov 11, 2021 8:18 AM

Vancouver International Airport begins using new terminal building expansion

Dailyhive
Kenneth Chan | Nov 9 2021


Quote:

Sustaining a recovery trend that first began in early September 2021, the spokesperson added that YVR is still averaging 28,000 to 30,000 passengers daily, which amounts to a significant rebound from earlier this year and the pandemic low of only 69,000 passengers for the entire month of April 2020. YVR expects passenger volumes will pick up in late November and throughout December as the holiday travel season gets underway.
https://images.dailyhive.com/2021021...erminal-16.jpg

you can pop out for some fresh air
https://images.dailyhive.com/2021021...erminal-21.jpg

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vanc...ding-expansion

Video Link

casper Nov 11, 2021 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpongeG (Post 9448090)
Vancouver International Airport begins using new terminal building expansion

Dailyhive
Kenneth Chan | Nov 9 2021




https://images.dailyhive.com/2021021...erminal-16.jpg

you can pop out for some fresh air
https://images.dailyhive.com/2021021...erminal-21.jpg

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vanc...ding-expansion

Video Link

YVR consistently has focused on creating a fantastic travelers experience. Far better than anything anywhere else.

esquire Nov 11, 2021 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9448415)
YVR consistently has focused on creating a fantastic travelers experience. Far better than anything anywhere else.

Best airport in Canada by a longshot.

Alexcaban Nov 11, 2021 9:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9448435)
Best airport in Canada by a longshot.

Yeah cause everyone loves that teal carpet....

casper Nov 11, 2021 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9448628)
Yeah cause everyone loves that teal carpet....

Agreed. Teal is a compromise colour between those that want green and blue. It captures the positives of both leaving behind the negatives. It is an uplifting colour that says sky, forest, and ocean. It is the colour of the pacific north west and BC.

Everyone loves teal.

esquire Nov 11, 2021 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9448628)
Yeah cause everyone loves that teal carpet....

It works for them!

isotack Nov 11, 2021 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 9448628)
Yeah cause everyone loves that teal carpet....

Not when you are attempting to roll a bag on it. As for "the best"...I don't have an opinion on which one is the best, but YVR isn't. IMO.

samuelx88 Nov 11, 2021 11:24 PM

Air Transat will stop their weekly YQB-YVR flight next summer. But since they announced YQB-LGW instead, it's less of a big loss.

This comes almost right after Air Canada announced their 3x weekly YQB-YVR flight.

Also, Air Canada updated their schedule and YQB-FLL and YQB-CUN are now year-round.

esquire Nov 12, 2021 2:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by isotack (Post 9448714)
Not when you are attempting to roll a bag on it. As for "the best"...I don't have an opinion on which one is the best, but YVR isn't. IMO.

Well, who's better?

Calgary? No.
Edmonton? No.
Ottawa? No.
Toronto? No.
Halifax? No.
Montreal? No.
Winnipeg? No.

Who am I missing?

I'm hard pressed to even think of a clear contender for second place. YVR is the perfect combination of big airport amenities with smaller airport convenience. It's well connected to the rest of the city and not too far out of the way. As a passenger I always enjoy passing through.

casper Nov 12, 2021 4:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9448848)
Well, who's better?

Calgary? No.
Edmonton? No.
Ottawa? No.
Toronto? No.
Halifax? No.
Montreal? No.
Winnipeg? No.

Who am I missing?

I'm hard pressed to even think of a clear contender for second place. YVR is the perfect combination of big airport amenities with smaller airport convenience. It's well connected to the rest of the city and not too far out of the way. As a passenger I always enjoy passing through.

The waterfall would put Ottawa in second place behind Vancouver. A distant second place.

hollywoodcory Nov 12, 2021 4:16 AM

I see AC removed most of China right through S22 now leaving just YVR/YYZ-PVG (with ICN stop) at 2x weekly.

esquire Nov 12, 2021 5:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9448887)
The waterfall would put Ottawa in second place behind Vancouver. A distant second place.

OK, it's a nice waterfall!

Architype Nov 12, 2021 5:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9448415)
YVR consistently has focused on creating a fantastic travelers experience. Far better than anything anywhere else.

I agree, YVR has won awards (I think) and seems comfortably relaxing and subtly sophisticated. I've travelled across Canada lots and seen and spent time in the major airports, most usually remind me of a big shopping mall atmosphere and seem overwhelmingly generic. Ottawa is one which I remember as being different for some reason though.

nname Nov 12, 2021 5:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9448894)
I see AC removed most of China right through S22 now leaving just YVR/YYZ-PVG (with ICN stop) at 2x weekly.

Seems like AC updated schedule for many long hual routes this week. Comparison with a few months ago:

Route suspension:
YVR-PEK/BNE/KIX
YUL-PVG
YYZ-PEK/BRU
YYC-CUN

Frequency Increase:
YUL-CAI
YYZ-DEL

Frequency Reduction:
YVR-PVG
YUL-ALG/CMN/LIS/BCN/NCE/GVA
YYZ-PVG/SCL/MAN/LIS/BCN/BUD

Extend to year round:
YVR-CUN

SpongeG Nov 12, 2021 8:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Architype (Post 9448935)
I agree, YVR has won awards (I think) and seems comfortably relaxing and subtly sophisticated. I've travelled across Canada lots and seen and spent time in the major airports, most usually remind me of a big shopping mall atmosphere and seem overwhelmingly generic. Ottawa is one which I remember as being different for some reason though.

I got stuck in Ottawa once, it was supposed to be a one hour layover that turned into over 8 hours. The airport was not too bad. Just the amount of time having to be spent there really sucked.

Calfan12 Nov 12, 2021 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9448894)
I see AC removed most of China right through S22 now leaving just YVR/YYZ-PVG (with ICN stop) at 2x weekly.

Not too surprising as China is not expected to lift or ease restrictions on international flights ✈️until 1st quarter / mid 2022.

But China is likely to do it slowly and they won’t rush it with allowing airlines to operate more frequencies of flights! It probably remains 1-2 weeklys and increases to 3-5 weekly for airlines at some point in mid 2022-2023.

I doubt China will allow international airlines to operate 7 weekly/ daily flights until 2024/2025 as they have 1 of the strictest covid pandemic policies &

Even international passengers into China still need quarantine in Hotels 14 days!

https://www.thatsmags.com/shanghai/p...st-to-mid-2022

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/29/china...hnk/index.html

thenoflyzone Nov 12, 2021 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9448848)
Well, who's better?

Calgary? No.
Edmonton? No.
Ottawa? No.
Toronto? No.
Halifax? No.
Montreal? No.
Winnipeg? No.

Who am I missing?

I'm hard pressed to even think of a clear contender for second place. YVR is the perfect combination of big airport amenities with smaller airport convenience. It's well connected to the rest of the city and not too far out of the way. As a passenger I always enjoy passing through.

I vote YYC ! I mean come on ! Where else can you ride on a golf cart bus type apparatus that connects the piers via a dedicated speed track...(apart from Disneyworld that is) ! The people that came up with that idea are geniuses !....lol

Sure beats 2 spruce trees in the middle of a terminal building !

Calfan12 Nov 12, 2021 7:10 PM

It currently looks like at end of March 2022 KLM 677/678 between Calgary & Amsterdam will be on the 787’s again according to google flights ✈️search for Spring & Summer.

Though it’s still too early to tell as *changes could be possible* and will see as it gets closer.

hollywoodcory Nov 12, 2021 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9449400)
It currently looks like at end of March 2022 KLM 677/678 between Calgary & Amsterdam will be on the 787’s again according to google flights ✈️search for Spring & Summer.

Though it’s still too early to tell as *changes could be possible* and will see as it gets closer.

This has been the schedule since KLM initially loaded the S22 schedule months ago. They've made no changes yet.

thenoflyzone Nov 12, 2021 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9449003)
Not too surprising as China is not expected to lift or ease restrictions on international flights ✈️until 1st quarter / mid 2022.

But China is likely to do it slowly and they won’t rush it with allowing airlines to operate more frequencies of flights! It probably remains 1-2 weeklys and increases to 3-5 weekly for airlines at some point in mid 2022-2023.

I doubt China will allow international airlines to operate 7 weekly/ daily flights until 2024/2025 as they have 1 of the strictest covid pandemic policies &

Even international passengers into China still need quarantine in Hotels 14 days!

https://www.thatsmags.com/shanghai/p...st-to-mid-2022

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/29/china...hnk/index.html

Lack of access to China will hurt YVR the most. Last time i checked international passenger stats for this year, YVR was 3rd overall, behind YUL and YYZ. Looks like it might stay that way until China fully opens up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9448936)
Seems like AC updated schedule for many long hual routes this week. Comparison with a few months ago:

Route suspension:
YVR-PEK/BNE/KIX
YUL-PVG
YYZ-PEK/BRU
YYC-CUN

Frequency Increase:
YUL-CAI
YYZ-DEL

Frequency Reduction:
YVR-PVG
YUL-ALG/CMN/LIS/BCN/NCE/GVA
YYZ-PVG/SCL/MAN/LIS/BCN/BUD

Extend to year round:
YVR-CUN

Most of these aren't surprising, like the reductions/cancelations to Asia/Australia and increases in VFR long haul routes like YUL-CAI and YYZ-DEL. What is surprising is the reductions on YUL/YYZ-Europe, especially considering most of these are leisure or VFR routes. At the very least, i'm surprised how early they reduced these routes. With YYZ-BRU canceled, I wonder if SN will return on the route. So far, they still have YUL bookable, running 5 minutes apart from the AC flight. Could easily see them moving that flight over to YYZ. Of course, they could end up canceling their plans on serving Canada altogether, since YUL wasn't in their press release a few weeks ago, announcing their S22 program.

Speaking of S22 program and YUL/YYZ-Europe, Transat has announced a massive S22 program to Europe. Especially from YUL. There is a nice chart with destinations from YUL, YYZ and YQB, and number of weekly departures during peak season S22 for Europe, Sun and US routes.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...880768657.html

someone123 Nov 12, 2021 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9448848)
I'm hard pressed to even think of a clear contender for second place. YVR is the perfect combination of big airport amenities with smaller airport convenience. It's well connected to the rest of the city and not too far out of the way. As a passenger I always enjoy passing through.

It's interesting because while I don't really find it to be an exciting place the actual facilities have never caused any big problems or bottlenecks getting through.

The same can't be said of Pearson/YUL, most US airports, or even some fancy new-ish airports around the world (I'm thinking of say Barcelona). A lot of the American ones are or used to be extremely bad, one example of this being hugely bogged down security checkpoints for people who are only connecting, and many of them are filthy.

I don't really know what the big airport amenities are though. They mostly have mediocre food options and then weird luxury good stores. I'm not sure I could identify a feature that say Pearson or YVR have that YHZ doesn't that made any difference.

esquire Nov 12, 2021 8:11 PM

For YVR it's the generally pleasant environment and interesting design, nice decor, nice art, nice views of the cityscape/mountains/water, good range of food/retail options, good selection of lounges, and as you point out it generally works well. It has a LRT connection to the city which is a big plus. There are a lot of things right nearby in Richmond. The terminal is busy but not so busy as to be unpleasant or overwhelming in any way. (Even YYZ pre-pandemic felt busy and congested... it wasn't an issue when T1 opened, but it was by 2019.)

Smaller airports like YHZ and YWG are pleasant mainly because of their smallness. YWG is awesome because you don't really have to walk very far to anything. It has all of the basics covered, but it doesn't have a ton beyond that.

thewave46 Nov 12, 2021 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9449466)
It's interesting because while I don't really find it to be an exciting place the actual facilities have never caused any big problems or bottlenecks getting through.

The same can't be said of Pearson/YUL, most US airports, or even some fancy new-ish airports around the world (I'm thinking of say Barcelona). A lot of the American ones are or used to be extremely bad, one example of this being hugely bogged down security checkpoints for people who are only connecting, and many of them are filthy.

I don't really know what the big airport amenities are though. They mostly have mediocre food options and then weird luxury good stores. I'm not sure I could identify a feature that say Pearson or YVR have that YHZ doesn't that made any difference.

YVR just has a different vibe. Maybe it's the teal, or the attempt at doing something that's not completely bland. I get more a sense of place there. It leans into the theme without being over the top. It also works reasonably well too; I've not had too much trouble with connecting there.

A lot of airports are kind of sterile (so much grey) and finished to the lowest cost. Pearson has some cavernous spaces, but there's nothing terribly unique that gives it a sense of place. It's the difference between a nice, but quirky independent hotel room with real colour and one that's industrial beige and could be any one of a dozen hotel chains.

thewave46 Nov 12, 2021 8:18 PM

Some airplane video fun courtesy of Air France and the CSer...er....A220. Check out the engines - that fan to turbine ratio!

Video Link


...and here's kind of a cool reminder of what we can build in this country when we actually put our minds to it.

Video Link

esquire Nov 12, 2021 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9449486)
A lot of airports are kind of sterile (so much grey) and finished to the lowest cost. Pearson has some cavernous spaces, but there's nothing terribly unique that gives it a sense of place. It's the difference between a nice, but quirky independent hotel room with real colour and one that's industrial beige and could be any one of a dozen hotel chains.

Oh yeah, speaking of hotels, that's another thing I like about YVR. The in-terminal Fairmont. Only stayed there once but I loved it!

thenoflyzone Nov 12, 2021 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9449504)
Oh yeah, speaking of hotels, that's another thing I like about YVR. The in-terminal Fairmont. Only stayed there once but I loved it!

It's not the only major airport in the country with an in-terminal hotel though. ;)

esquire Nov 12, 2021 8:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9449508)
It's not the only major airport in the country with an in-terminal hotel though. ;)

No, but it's the nicest one I've seen for sure.

thenoflyzone Nov 12, 2021 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9449501)
Some airplane video fun courtesy of Air France and the CSer...er....A220. Check out the engines - that fan to turbine ratio!

...and here's kind of a cool reminder of what we can build in this country when we actually put our minds to it.

Great videos ! It's all about the bypass ratio nowadays. 12 to 1 bypass ratio for the engines on the A220. (Just to compare, a 767s engines' bypass ratio is about 4.5 to 1).

casper Nov 13, 2021 3:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123 (Post 9449466)
It's interesting because while I don't really find it to be an exciting place the actual facilities have never caused any big problems or bottlenecks getting through.

The same can't be said of Pearson/YUL, most US airports, or even some fancy new-ish airports around the world (I'm thinking of say Barcelona). A lot of the American ones are or used to be extremely bad, one example of this being hugely bogged down security checkpoints for people who are only connecting, and many of them are filthy.

I don't really know what the big airport amenities are though. They mostly have mediocre food options and then weird luxury good stores. I'm not sure I could identify a feature that say Pearson or YVR have that YHZ doesn't that made any difference.

YVR key advantages:
  • One of the largest indigenous art collections in BC on display.
  • Jelly Fish Tank. (Ok the old Heathrow Terminal 1/2 had one so its not original idea but YVR just did it better and bigger.
  • Creek and reflecting pool with fish in the middle of the terminal.
  • Rainforest display with Totem poles along the walk from the aircraft to immigration to welcome people to the west coast.
  • Multiple lounge options (more than any other airport in Canada).
  • Teal everywhere (we all know how Teal is everyone's favorite colour). Windows everywhere.

Pearson is a crap shoot. You could end up in a pleasant environment or you could end up in an over crowded convoluted and third world like area. (Some of the spots in Terminal 3 are terrible, and that area Air Canada uses for regional flights to the US in terminal 1 is even worse. The area American uses in Terminal 3 for flights to Leguardia is undersized, crowded. I think it is a deliberate attempt to prepare the travelling public for what awaits them at the other end.

Winnipeg is fantastic. Saskatoon has a great space, but they need to keep that Starbucks open for more than an hour or two each day. So it is possible to have a great smaller airport. Even Victoria (that tries to have the same experience as Vancouver) is nice for it is limited size and amenities.

Edmonton is weird. Half the airport is wonderful, modern and the other half looks to be from the 1980s.

Montreal has the best food of anyone but is a bit tight in places.

YYCguys Nov 13, 2021 5:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9449485)
YWG is awesome because you don't really have to walk very far to anything. It has all of the basics covered, but it doesn't have a ton beyond that.

It’s a shame that Stella’s on the pre secure side closed down and doesn’t appear to be reopening. And it’s strange that the Tim Hortons post security is all the way down at one end of the terminal so it’s quite a walk from the other end!

nname Nov 13, 2021 6:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9449454)
Most of these aren't surprising, like the reductions/cancelations to Asia/Australia and increases in VFR long haul routes like YUL-CAI and YYZ-DEL. What is surprising is the reductions on YUL/YYZ-Europe, especially considering most of these are leisure or VFR routes. At the very least, i'm surprised how early they reduced these routes.

Maybe AC doesn't have enough planes to run all the routes? I'll calculate the long hual plane requirement for the current schedule, but it should be more in line with what they have right now. Before the update, it requires something like 12x 788s to run all the routes...

But by quickly looking at all the plane assignment, seems like they still need to find more work for the 450-seat 77W...

[EDIT]
By my rough calculation, the current schedule will need:
12x 77W (400 seats), 6x 77W (450 seats), 7x 77L, 5x 788, 25x 789, 17x 333

The above does not account for routes still in schedule but not open for booking (OTP, ZAG.. all on 333)

So still some equipment changes pending, and maybe some adjustments to those trans-con US flights that's taking up the 333s. Other than that, not much more they can add now, except maybe a couple of more routes/resumption on 788/789, and maybe the following:
- The flights to PVG will take 1 77W each, so they have 3 unused frequency each at YVR and YYZ.
- YYZ have 10x weekly unused frequency on 789 (they love making every route run on 246...)
- YVR have 2x weekly unused frequency on 788

hemustbeaboss Nov 13, 2021 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9449930)
Maybe AC doesn't have enough planes to run all the routes? I'll calculate the long hual plane requirement for the current schedule, but it should be more in line with what they have right now. Before the update, it requires something like 12x 788s to run all the routes...

But by quickly looking at all the plane assignment, seems like they still need to find more work for the 450-seat 77W...

[EDIT]
By my rough calculation, the current schedule will need:
12x 77W (400 seats), 6x 77W (450 seats), 7x 77L, 5x 788, 25x 789, 17x 333

The above does not account for routes still in schedule but not open for booking (OTP, ZAG.. all on 333)

So still some equipment changes pending, and maybe some adjustments to those trans-con US flights that's taking up the 333s. Other than that, not much more they can add now, except maybe a couple of more routes/resumption on 788/789, and maybe the following:
- The flights to PVG will take 1 77W each, so they have 3 unused frequency each at YVR and YYZ.
- YYZ have 10x weekly unused frequency on 789 (they love making every route run on 246...)
- YVR have 2x weekly unused frequency on 788

Very interesting! Great info nname. Does that usage of the widebodies include domestic and transcon routes as well?

Those 3 additional 787's will help, but AC still has no introduced service / brought back pre covid frequency to PVG, PEK, BNE, AKL, and MEL. And all of those use an aircraft for over a day...

thenoflyzone Nov 13, 2021 3:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9449930)
Maybe AC doesn't have enough planes to run all the routes? I'll calculate the long hual plane requirement for the current schedule, but it should be more in line with what they have right now. Before the update, it requires something like 12x 788s to run all the routes...

But by quickly looking at all the plane assignment, seems like they still need to find more work for the 450-seat 77W...

[EDIT]
By my rough calculation, the current schedule will need:
12x 77W (400 seats), 6x 77W (450 seats), 7x 77L, 5x 788, 25x 789, 17x 333

The above does not account for routes still in schedule but not open for booking (OTP, ZAG.. all on 333)

So still some equipment changes pending, and maybe some adjustments to those trans-con US flights that's taking up the 333s. Other than that, not much more they can add now, except maybe a couple of more routes/resumption on 788/789, and maybe the following:
- The flights to PVG will take 1 77W each, so they have 3 unused frequency each at YVR and YYZ.
- YYZ have 10x weekly unused frequency on 789 (they love making every route run on 246...)
- YVR have 2x weekly unused frequency on 788

So a bit of slack, but not much. Interesting. Good work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemustbeaboss (Post 9449997)

Those 3 additional 787's will help, but AC still has no introduced service / brought back pre covid frequency to PVG, PEK, BNE, AKL, and MEL. And all of those use an aircraft for over a day...

Like AC's VP of Network planning said recently, big decisions need to be made.

https://simpleflying.com/air-canada-...ntic-recovery/

Quote:

Because of the relative success of these ethnic markets, Galardo said that he has big decisions to make. Is it worth keeping them – or at least at the higher frequencies – at the expense of not doing other things with the aircraft as the rest of the world reopens? A complicating factor is that VFR markets are generally the lowest of the low for yields.

It is a reminder of how an airline can do only so many things with what it has, necessitating decision-making about how best to utilize very expensive assets. The opportunity cost – if you do X, you can’t do Y – is clear and will confront many airlines as they begin to return to normal and ultimately return to their core markets. Air Canada is no different.
It's pretty safe to say that PEK, PVG should return once China opens up. The rest isn't guaranteed. The Australian routes weren't performing as well as AC had hoped pre-pandemic. 3 routes to Australia seemed a bit much, by my reading of their expectations.

thenoflyzone Nov 13, 2021 5:10 PM

^ In AC's Q3 results and analysis documents, AC will have the following widebody passenger fleet next year. Numbers in brackets are the change from this year.

18x B77W (+6, all cargo aircraft converted back to passenger layout)
6x B77L
8x B788
30x B789 (+1)
16x A333 (+4, all cargo aircraft converted back to passenger layout)

So yeah, a bit of slack, but not much.

Dominion301 Nov 13, 2021 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9450082)
^ In AC's Q3 results and analysis documents, AC will have the following widebody passenger fleet next year. Numbers in brackets are the change from this year.

18x B77W (+6, all cargo aircraft converted back to passenger layout)
6x B77L
8x B788
30x B789 (+1)
16x A333 (+4, all cargo aircraft converted back to passenger layout)

So yeah, a bit of slack, but not much.

Isn't it 17 77Ws with the 1 that was recently returned to lessor?

nname Nov 13, 2021 6:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemustbeaboss (Post 9449997)
Those 3 additional 787's will help, but AC still has no introduced service / brought back pre covid frequency to PVG, PEK, BNE, AKL, and MEL. And all of those use an aircraft for over a day...

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9450022)
It's pretty safe to say that PEK, PVG should return once China opens up. The rest isn't guaranteed. The Australian routes weren't performing as well as AC had hoped pre-pandemic. 3 routes to Australia seemed a bit much, by my reading of their expectations.

They could still free up some 333s by convert the LAX/SFO and a few TATL routes to 7M8. Currently flights to LAX and SFO will take up 5x 333, as they currently cannot be connected to any TATL route. Each TATL flight will take up a full plane for the day due to increased turnaround time.

AKL and MEL were scheduled to winter only, BNE could become less than daily. PVG and PEK will certainly be back, but that's not guaranteed for YUL-PVG and that route could become less than daily too. Seems like AC is more open for running sub-daily routes now compared to before.

Dominion301 Nov 13, 2021 8:13 PM

Here's a neat video of Canadian North's first 73G, FIN 701, an ex-WS bird: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYniIbiKie0

thewave46 Nov 13, 2021 9:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9450082)
^ In AC's Q3 results and analysis documents, AC will have the following widebody passenger fleet next year. Numbers in brackets are the change from this year.

18x B77W (+6, all cargo aircraft converted back to passenger layout)
6x B77L
8x B788
30x B789 (+1)
16x A333 (+4, all cargo aircraft converted back to passenger layout)

So yeah, a bit of slack, but not much.

I'm surprised to see the 777-200LR back. The 789 has close to the same range and passenger count.

Unless they're putting it on cargo heavy routes? It always seemed like they didn't quite know what to do with it other than Hong Kong flights from Toronto.

If there was another candidate for a conversion to the AC Cargo fleet, the 77L would be my choice.

thewave46 Nov 13, 2021 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9450022)
The Australian routes weren't performing as well as AC had hoped pre-pandemic. 3 routes to Australia seemed a bit much, by my reading of their expectations.

I do wonder how many will come back. Alas, the unreliability of their codeshare partner in Australia (Virgin Australia) means they're somewhat limited.

I expect SYD to continue. Melbourne might be seasonal. Maybe Brisbane comes back for the Olympics? I wonder how they did on AKL and if it eventually returns for the winter?

thenoflyzone Nov 13, 2021 9:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9450111)
Isn't it 17 77Ws with the 1 that was recently returned to lessor?

The count went down from 19 to 18 because of that. Page 22.

https://www.aircanada.com/content/da...021_MDA_q3.pdf

thenoflyzone Nov 14, 2021 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9450257)
I'm surprised to see the 777-200LR back. The 789 has close to the same range and passenger count.

Unless they're putting it on cargo heavy routes? It always seemed like they didn't quite know what to do with it other than Hong Kong flights from Toronto.

If there was another candidate for a conversion to the AC Cargo fleet, the 77L would be my choice.

They're bought and paid for, so it makes sense to keep them. Also, the 77L can fly further (~ 1,000 nm, or 2 hours and change) or can carry more cargo over the same distance as the B789. So yeah, on certain cargo heavy routes, it has its uses. The cost to operate it is more though, so the cargo has to make up for the difference, and then some. But again, they're bought and paid for, so there's that.

Alexcaban Nov 14, 2021 1:52 AM

My guess is MEL gets the permanent chop.

Was already a weak route pre-pandemic and had been reduced to seasonal.

Dominion301 Nov 14, 2021 1:55 AM

In keeping with YYC videos (see the 5T 73G above), here is some beyond-awesome footage from 1992 of YYC action by a CP employee and getting up close & personal with a CP 732 at the old Canadi>n hangar, including with the JT8Ds getting tested at idle power = still screaming.

Other aircraft in the video include a DL 757, AA Mad Dog, CAF Herc landing, CP 763 landing, CP DC-10, then-new AC & CP 320s, CP 732 'Spirit of Norman Wells' - this aircraft still flies in 2021 with Air Inuit, AC DC-9, 762 and, in the twilight of its AC career 727 (all but two AC 727s went to FedEx) all in the double red stripe livery (my favourite AC livery) and some Air BC and Time Air/CP Partner Dash 8s. Not to mention the ground equipment of the era, including the wonderful Robert Mitchell loading bridges with the no marshalling required stop poles.

It's worth a looking - and bookmarking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRx99Lh7ihg

casper Nov 14, 2021 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9450390)
They're bought and paid for, so it makes sense to keep them. Also, the 77L can fly further (~ 1,000 nm, or 2 hours and change) or can carry more cargo over the same distance as the B789. So yeah, on certain cargo heavy routes, it has its uses. The cost to operate it is more though, so the cargo has to make up for the difference, and then some. But again, they're bought and paid for, so there's that.

The 77L are also in a slightly more premium configuration. On routes where they routinely fill their front cabin with paying customers there are better off using the 77L.

Dominion301 Nov 14, 2021 4:44 PM

Swoop are coming to Ottawa starting 25APR22 nonstop 3x weekly to YEG. Hopefully there's a press release as it's rather strange the flights were loaded before being announced. The flights will continue same-plane to Abbotsford/YXX. Also hopefully WS aren't downloading YOW-YEG to WO and these flights will complement WS.

Here's the schedule:
WO 511 D YOW 1700, A YEG 1920, D YEG 2015, A YXX 2040 ops days 135
WO 510 D YXX 0715, A YEG 0935, D YEG 1030, A YOW 1610 ops days 135

One-way fares to both YXX and YEG start at $99 taxes in.

JakeLRS Nov 14, 2021 8:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9450660)
Swoop are coming to Ottawa starting 25APR22 nonstop 3x weekly to YEG. Hopefully there's a press release as it's rather strange the flights were loaded before being announced. The flights will continue same-plane to Abbotsford/YXX. Also hopefully WS aren't downloading YOW-YEG to WO and these flights will complement WS.

Here's the schedule:
WO 511 D YOW 1700, A YEG 1920, D YEG 2015, A YXX 2040 ops days 135
WO 510 D YXX 0715, A YEG 0935, D YEG 1030, A YOW 1610 ops days 135

One-way fares to both YXX and YEG start at $99 taxes in.

Almost certainly added to combat flair so westjet can continue to cater to a more leisure market instead of a budget market.

hollywoodcory Nov 14, 2021 9:39 PM

I also see Swoop added YEG-YQM too and is currently the only non-stop from anywhere in Western Canada to NB. Mainline WS doesn't even serve YQM from YYC (yet).

Curious if this could be hinting at WS adding YYC-YQM as well.

thenoflyzone Nov 14, 2021 9:49 PM

AA exits YOW completely. They haven’t flown to YOW since June 2020. AA is also cutting JFK-YUL/YYZ (which haven’t been flown since April 2019). They are also cutting PHX-YVR/YYC.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/americ...14744363C&tw=1

thewave46 Nov 14, 2021 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9450871)
AA exits YOW completely. They haven’t flown to YOW since June 2020. AA is also cutting JFK-YUL/YYZ (which haven’t been flown since April 2019). They are also cutting PHX-YVR/YYC.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/americ...14744363C&tw=1

The US airlines are really hacking away at Canada.

I see why AA is the weakest of the lot as they lack a partner here.

Is our market that weak for US airlines? Or is it more an internal problem for them and Canada's just easier to sacrifice?


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