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lubicon Jun 24, 2020 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8961475)
http://westjet.mediaroom.com/2020-06...ure-its-future

WestJet is contracting out all of it's domestic operations except at YYC / YVR / YEG & YYZ.

I read that to mean gate agents, check in staff etc. correct? In other words everything outside the four core airports will be contracted out?

YYCguys Jun 24, 2020 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 8961622)
I read that to mean gate agents, check in staff etc. correct? In other words everything outside the four core airports will be contracted out?

And TAC (turn around crew) as well, from what I understand.

lubicon Jun 24, 2020 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8961625)
And TAC (turn around crew) as well, from what I understand.

Right. I was under the impression most of those were already contracted out but stand to be corrected.

YYCguys Jun 24, 2020 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 8961649)
Right. I was under the impression most of those were already contracted out but stand to be corrected.

I think you’re right. Other than YYC, are there any other stations with WS TAC crew?

Rogie Jun 24, 2020 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8961625)
And TAC (turn around crew) as well, from what I understand.

Stupid question, what's Turn Around Crew?

whatnext Jun 24, 2020 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8961489)
3,333 positions gone.

Because Westjetters care...subcontracted agents, not so much.

rbt Jun 24, 2020 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogie (Post 8961816)
Stupid question, what's Turn Around Crew?

Load/unload bags, clean aircraft, replenish water, remove sewage, marshal aircraft into/out of the gate.

Basically, everything non-customer facing except fuel (specialization) and food delivery (handled by caterer).

thenoflyzone Jun 24, 2020 11:50 PM

Seems WS doesn't want to waste a good crisis.

No better time than the present to clean up house and blame it on COVID. Wages and working conditions at all airlines are going one way, down, for the foreseeable future.

Dominion301 Jun 25, 2020 1:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubicon (Post 8961649)
Right. I was under the impression most of those were already contracted out but stand to be corrected.

Below the wing yes, I think apart from these four stations, WS has always had below the wing 3rd parties. It’s all the counter/gate agents that will be gone at places like YOW, YHZ, YUL, YWG, YLW, etc. Fire everyone and then rehire some of them at minimum wage.

casper Jun 25, 2020 1:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8961977)
Seems WS doesn't want to waste a good crisis.

No better time than the present to clean up house and blame it on COVID. Wages and working conditions at all airlines are going one way, down, for the foreseeable future.

Exactly. You feel sorry for staff who jobs are disappearing however it probably makes sense. They already contract out these functions are foreign airports and have the infrastructure to mange quality of service using outsourced resources. The only business case to have these in house would be cost saving.

With WestJet slowing shifting to a union shop in the future it is going to be harder to manage the customer experience using internal resources. Contractors provide more flexibility with being able to adjust how you deliver the service and customer experience.

zahav Jun 25, 2020 7:08 AM

WS always used 3rd party ramp agents at YVR, it was Globeground, then Swissport, and probably others! But pax agents and everyone customer facing was WS staff, and still will be.

I worked for airlines before, and most of the people will be able to find jobs with the new ground handlers, but usually is less pay and way less beneifts. So ya, a step down certainly, but I can obv see why WS would have to do it right now

hollywoodcory Jun 26, 2020 2:48 PM

Today WestJet will operate it's first commercial passenger flights outside of Canada since March with the following flights:

WS1510 YYC-LAX
WS1590 YYC-ATL
WS1696 YVR-LAX

This also marks the first time a Canadian carrier has operated a non-domestic flight from YYC since March.

YYC-LAS resumes on Sunday, while 4 routes will resume from YYZ in July.

Truenorth00 Jun 26, 2020 5:48 PM

I expect a lot of those Sunbelt flights to cut back shortly.

Dominion301 Jun 26, 2020 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truenorth00 (Post 8963964)
I expect a lot of those Sunbelt flights to cut back shortly.

Places like Florida are spiralling out of control. Almost 9,000 cases there today.

whatnext Jun 26, 2020 6:42 PM

AC and WS to start selling middle seats again as of July 1:

WestJet Airlines and Air Canada are set to resume selling middle seats on aircraft, ending a health and safety measure enacted during the COVID-19 pandemic.

WestJet said on Friday adjacent seats on domestic flights will no longer be blocked off beginning on July 1, citing recommendations by the International Air Transport Association, a global airline group, that says masks, passenger temperature checks and air filters are better – and less costly – ways to prevent the spread of the virus. The Calgary-based carrier will begin filling adjacent seats on international flights in August, said Morgan Bell, a WestJet spokeswoman.

Air Canada’s policy of blocking off the adjacent seat in economy class also ends on July 1, as the airlines look to recover from a collapse in air travel that has cost thousands of jobs and threatened the survival of many of the world’s carriers....


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...flights-as-of/

zahav Jun 26, 2020 9:33 PM

Hmmm not sure ending the seat block is a good idea. Obv I'm not a scientist or an expert on the spread, but seems premature to do this?

p_xavier Jun 26, 2020 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8964220)
Hmmm not sure ending the seat block is a good idea. Obv I'm not a scientist or an expert on the spread, but seems premature to do this?

If everyone wears masks, basically not change of contagion.

theman23 Jun 26, 2020 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_xavier (Post 8964223)
If everyone wears masks, basically not change of contagion.

I haven't been on a flight, but I doubt the airlines are actually enforcing this beyond the initial boarding procedure. What's to stop someone from taking off their mask or have it hang from their neck midway through their flight?

p_xavier Jun 26, 2020 9:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23 (Post 8964230)
I haven't been on a flight, but I doubt the airlines are actually enforcing this beyond the initial boarding procedure. What's to stop someone from taking off their mask or have it hang from their neck midway through their flight?

That's up to the airlines. I sure wouldn't travel with an airline that dididn't respect basic hygiene.

theman23 Jun 26, 2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by p_xavier (Post 8964235)
That's up to the airlines. I sure wouldn't travel with an airline that dididn't respect basic hygiene.

How would you know before getting on the airplane?

lubicon Jun 26, 2020 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8964220)
Hmmm not sure ending the seat block is a good idea. Obv I'm not a scientist or an expert on the spread, but seems premature to do this?

It will help hold down price increases too. The airlines cannot continue flying half empty aircraft and also keep fares where they were (assuming they can sell these additional seats).

YYCguys Jun 27, 2020 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23 (Post 8964230)
I haven't been on a flight, but I doubt the airlines are actually enforcing this beyond the initial boarding procedure. What's to stop someone from taking off their mask or have it hang from their neck midway through their flight?

WS cabin crews are informing guests to keep their masks on when not eating/drinking/taking medication/needing to breathe and if the guests don’t comply further action will be taken as not complying is actually breaking the law.

Dominion301 Jun 27, 2020 7:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8964347)
WS cabin crews are informing guests to keep their masks on when not eating/drinking/taking medication/needing to breathe and if the guests don’t comply further action will be taken as not complying is actually breaking the law.

Yep. In fact earlier in the week a WS flight diverted to YWG for this very reason + the idiot was smoking in the lavatory. Double whammy.

esquire Jun 27, 2020 8:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8964804)
Yep. In fact earlier in the week a WS flight diverted to YWG for this very reason + the idiot was smoking in the lavatory. Double whammy.

It happened again a couple of days later...a guy on a YVR-YWG flight was fined for refusing to wear a mask on board.

YYCguys Jun 27, 2020 8:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 8964825)
It happened again a couple of days later...a guy on a YVR-YWG flight was fined for refusing to wear a mask on board.

I think that was the same flight, no?

esquire Jun 27, 2020 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8964841)
I think that was the same flight, no?

There were two separate incidents a couple of days apart.

thenoflyzone Jun 27, 2020 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8964804)
Yep. In fact earlier in the week a WS flight diverted to YWG for this very reason + the idiot was smoking in the lavatory. Double whammy.

Well, how do you want him to smoke with his mask on......:notacrook:

Bishop2047 Jun 28, 2020 3:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8964924)
Well, how do you want him to smoke with his mask on......:notacrook:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/00...g?v=1581694936

I think this is a fair compromise.

One of my co-workers was on the flight, delayed him 2 days as there are not a whole lot of other options for folks right now.

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2020 4:17 PM

Well now YOWers can feel a little less bad about losing AA. They’re suspending YQB and YHZ. These are seasonal destinations, so it remains to be seen if they’re back in 2021.

hollywoodcory Jun 28, 2020 5:02 PM

And Delta is dropping YEG until September too.

Other then YWG, I believe all Transborder flights will occur at the big 4 in July?

United still plans to resume service to YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC next week.

Also KLM modified its plans for July too.

YVR is now 4x weekly from July 12, and YYC is 2x weekly 333 (instead of 772)

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2020 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8965382)
And Delta is dropping YEG until September too.

Other then YWG, I believe all Transborder flights will occur at the big 4 in July?

United still plans to resume service to YYZ, YUL, YVR and YYC next week.

Also KLM modified its plans for July too.

YVR is now 4x weekly from July 12, and YYC is 2x weekly 333 (instead of 772)

I see AS at YYJ and YLW in August, but not sure about July.

Isn't DL still serving YHZ and YQB in July?

It's puzzling why DL are doing month-to-month at YEG, yet suspended YOW indefinitely. :???:

AA cutting YOW was an easy way to layoff staff. AA above wing at YOW was legacy US staff and not contractors.

Dominion301 Jun 28, 2020 6:24 PM

I see AC have pared down July internationally and YYC-FRA is gone.

hollywoodcory Jun 28, 2020 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8965449)
I see AS at YYJ and YLW in August, but not sure about July.

Isn't DL still serving YHZ and YQB in July?

It's puzzling why DL are doing month-to-month at YEG, yet suspended YOW indefinitely. :???:

AA cutting YOW was an easy way to layoff staff. AA above wing at YOW was legacy US staff and not contractors.

YEG is being dropped in July too. I suspect it will also be dropped in the fall too. I don't see YHZ/YQB on DL's schedule in July.

I was mostly talking about July, as most August schedules aren't finalized. AS is only serving YVR in July.

---

As for Air Canada, they will fly the same amount of flights to Rome as they will from any point in Western Canada to any point in Europe in July. KLM will have a better presence in Western Canada than they will.

I'm starting to get the impression that they'll end up resuming YVR-FRA first (even though its just a seasonal route, while YYC-FRA is year-round.) They just don't seem interesting in trying to be competitive in YYC at all.

wave46 Jun 28, 2020 9:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 8965480)
I'm starting to get the impression that they'll end up resuming YVR-FRA first (even though its just a seasonal route, while YYC-FRA is year-round.) They just don't seem interesting in trying to be competitive in YYC at all.

I'd speculate that it's not so much 'not trying to compete' as it is 'staunching the worst bleeding spots'.

Head-to-head battles can work in good times. So, yeah, AC can probably make a dent in Westjet in Calgary over the Atlantic in good times. Now? If anything doesn't lose wads of money, airlines consider that a success. This typically means retrenching to the strongest hubs.

Easier to stick that YYC passenger on a flight across the Atlantic via Toronto. Sucks for the passenger but chances are if they're headed to FRA, they're heading somewhere else anyway.

Dominion301 Jun 29, 2020 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8961977)
Seems WS doesn't want to waste a good crisis.

No better time than the present to clean up house and blame it on COVID. Wages and working conditions at all airlines are going one way, down, for the foreseeable future.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...882148461.html

Unifor has now weighed in. Looks like ground staff were on the verge of unionizing:

Quote:

"It is disgraceful and downright un-Canadian that WestJet would punish the workers who made this historic Western Canadian start-up so successful. This is pandemic capitalism at its worst," said Jerry Dias, Unifor National President. "I find it disturbing that WestJet is using the pandemic to justify its outsourcing scheme as so many of the workers who will lose their jobs were in the process of signing union cards with Unifor."

WestJet's plans were announced by its parent company, Onex Corporation, one of the largest private equity firms in Canada. At the time Onex acquired WestJet in 2019, Unifor warned workers and the public of its reputation as a predatory takeover specialist with a long history of devastating cost-cutting and restructuring.

"Up until the time Onex's takeover, WestJet employees were considered owners," said Kellie Scanlan, Unifor's Director of Organizing. "But after this week's announcement, it's clear that at WestJet, management does not want workers to have a voice."

Unifor has a proven record of securing collective bargaining language that specifically protects airline workers from outsourcing schemes. While Unifor has been working hard to organize workers at WestJet it has faced an aggressive management-led campaign to undermine card signing efforts. In recent weeks, Unifor organizers have noted a substantial increase in the number of WestJet workers reaching out to sign union cards.

"This outsourcing scheme at WestJet shows what happens when workers do not have a union to protect them," added Dias. "We will continue to fight for frontline WestJet workers and stand with them during this difficult time."

Dominion301 Jun 29, 2020 4:15 PM

Porter are pushing back their start date by another month to August 31st: https://app.meltwater.com/mwTransiti...ail-newsletter

Smart move to keep their cash outlays to a minimum. Also shows show demand for biz travel (PD's bread & butter) is still really low. Plus I don't think PD carry any cargo.

LO 044 Jun 29, 2020 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8966120)
https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...882148461.html

"This outsourcing scheme at WestJet shows what happens when workers do not have a union to protect them"

Isn't it the other way around? Once employees started unionizing at WestJet, the company reacts accordingly to run its business.

Dominion301 Jun 29, 2020 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 8966411)
Isn't it the other way around? Once employees started unionizing at WestJet, the company reacts accordingly to run its business.

A lot of ground staff at other airlines have it in their collective agreement that once a station sees X flights or more per day, the work must be done in house. I believe at WN it's 8/day. If WS ground staff already had the same protections, all the medium stations outside of WS' big 4 would have protection. In other words: YYJ, YLW, YXE, YQR, YWG, YOW, YUL, YHZ and LGA...and maybe even YMM. In other words, they moved to protect themselves too late.

So if I understand correctly, all below wing at YYC and YYZ are also getting the boot?

Coldrsx Jun 29, 2020 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 8966411)
Isn't it the other way around? Once employees started unionizing at WestJet, the company reacts accordingly to run its business.

Bingo.

casper Jun 30, 2020 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8966620)
A lot of ground staff at other airlines have it in their collective agreement that once a station sees X flights or more per day, the work must be done in house. I believe at WN it's 8/day. If WS ground staff already had the same protections, all the medium stations outside of WS' big 4 would have protection. In other words: YYJ, YLW, YXE, YQR, YWG, YOW, YUL, YHZ and LGA...and maybe even YMM. In other words, they moved to protect themselves too late.

So if I understand correctly, all below wing at YYC and YYZ are also getting the boot?

Most of those station in normal times do not have 8 departures a day on WS. Take YXE as an example. There is likely 1-2 flights a day to Toronto, 1-2 to Calgary. The rest are WestJet Encore. Even on the Air Canada side, YXE has gone a couple of time between being staffed by AC or Jazz employees over the year.

YYJ is again the same things there are likely one 2-3 flights a day that are mainline. The rest are regional.

The union is part of the problem. WS need to find ways of reducing costs especially when it is operating a fraction of its schedule. If the union comes it with work conditions that make it difficult to have all these outstations maybe the solution is not to have them.

Dominion301 Jun 30, 2020 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 8967118)
Most of those station in normal times do not have 8 departures a day on WS. Take YXE as an example. There is likely 1-2 flights a day to Toronto, 1-2 to Calgary. The rest are WestJet Encore. Even on the Air Canada side, YXE has gone a couple of time between being staffed by AC or Jazz employees over the year.

YYJ is again the same things there are likely one 2-3 flights a day that are mainline. The rest are regional.

The union is part of the problem. WS need to find ways of reducing costs especially when it is operating a fraction of its schedule. If the union comes it with work conditions that make it difficult to have all these outstations maybe the solution is not to have them.

I was talking about mainline + Encore. It's not like WS will have separate vendors at these stations for mainline and Encore...or that they already do so for below the wing.

Tell me, how can a union be a 'problem' when they still have no legal standing with an organization? If you'd read the article, it says Unifor were in the process of getting employees to sign union cards to eventually certify. It's always amusing that the first reaction so many have is 'it's the union's fault'.

Dominion301 Jun 30, 2020 2:22 PM

Here's an airline that isn't talked about much. Pascan are renewing their fleet with 'new' Saab 340s. I love their new livery and have taken a queue from AC with the black flight deck windows:

https://cfim.ca/wp-content/uploads/2...3463891137.jpg

Link to story (in French): https://cfim.ca/pascan-aviation-reno...te-dappareils/

It says the first route the SF3 will be deployed on is Montreal-Quebec-Bonaventure-Iles-de-la-Madeleine.

Bishop2047 Jun 30, 2020 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8967219)
Here's an airline that isn't talked about much. Pascan are renewing their fleet with 'new' Saab 340s. I love their new livery and have taken a queue from AC with the black flight deck windows:

https://cfim.ca/wp-content/uploads/2...3463891137.jpg

Link to story (in French): https://cfim.ca/pascan-aviation-reno...te-dappareils/

It says the first route the SF3 will be deployed on is Montreal-Quebec-Bonaventure-Iles-de-la-Madeleine.

I fly on the SAABs regularly in Saskatchewan with Transwest. It is not a bad plane and not sure why they are not more utilized in Canada. Typical layout is 9 rows or passenger seating with a 1 and 2 seat arrangement. Back row is often a bench, so max capacity is 28. It is cramped but not much more than a Q400 would be.

https://transwestair.com/

ghYHZ Jun 30, 2020 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 8967219)
It says the first route the SF3 will be deployed on is Montreal-Quebec-Bonaventure-Iles-de-la-Madeleine.

Ahhh...the Magdalens!!

I was there a couple of years ago but not looking good for a trip back this year!

(trip report here)

https://www.airliners.net/forum/view...iles#p13168249

BenYOW Jun 30, 2020 4:13 PM

Air Canada has announced a widespread series of changes to its domestic network, including the closure of the following stations and the termination of 30 routes:
  • Bathurst (New Brunswick)
  • Wabush (Newfoundland and Labrador)
  • Gaspé (Quebec)
  • Baie Comeau (Quebec)
  • Mont Joli (Quebec)
  • Val d’Or (Quebec)
  • Kingston (Ontario)
  • North Bay (Ontario)
Press Release

YYCguys Jun 30, 2020 4:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW (Post 8967383)
Air Canada has announced a widespread series of changes to its domestic network, including the closure of the following stations and the termination of 30 routes:
  • Bathurst (New Brunswick)
  • Wabush (Newfoundland and Labrador)
  • Gaspé (Quebec)
  • Baie Comeau (Quebec)
  • Mont Joli (Quebec)
  • Val d’Or (Quebec)
  • Kingston (Ontario)
  • North Bay (Ontario)
Press Release

I note that one of the route cancellations is YQR-YXE. I didn’t know they even did the route and must be one of the few who even did it!

Denscity Jun 30, 2020 4:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenYOW (Post 8967383)
Air Canada has announced a widespread series of changes to its domestic network, including the closure of the following stations and the termination of 30 routes:
  • Bathurst (New Brunswick)
  • Wabush (Newfoundland and Labrador)
  • Gaspé (Quebec)
  • Baie Comeau (Quebec)
  • Mont Joli (Quebec)
  • Val d’Or (Quebec)
  • Kingston (Ontario)
  • North Bay (Ontario)
Press Release

Whew Castlegar survives!

le calmar Jun 30, 2020 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 8967419)
Whew Castlegar survives!

I didn't know Castlegar was served by AC. I am surprised to see Kingston go as it appeared to be reasonably busy. Not really surprised about the rest of the list though.

wave46 Jun 30, 2020 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 8967453)
I didn't know Castlegar was served by AC. I am surprised to see Kingston go as it appeared to be reasonably busy. Not really surprised about the rest of the list though.

Kingston is too close to Toronto by car and not really a business hub. Since governmental organizations have basically eliminated travel, it destroys the business case.

Perhaps service comes back when Queens and the like allow travel again, since the leisure travelers probably don't justify the costs.

If AC can't make money with 100% market share in these places, they were pretty marginal to begin with.

MountainView Jun 30, 2020 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8967401)
I note that one of the route cancellations is YQR-YXE. I didn’t know they even did the route and must be one of the few who even did it!

It's weird that this was listed as I'm not entirely sure it was bookable on AC's website, but the route was a triangle route YOW-YQR-YXE-YOW that ran summer seasonally, usually May through October.


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