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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

TimB09 May 26, 2023 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9954264)
What i do find interesting is how much baseball is dying in Canada outside Toronto. Olympic Stadium in Montreal will soon revert to soccer and football only in renovation. Ottawa no team Winnipeg goldeyes might soon fold. Calgary i believe no team and ballpark to change to field house. Not sure if Edmonton still has a team?

Edmonton's team was supposed to move to a brand new stadium in Spruce Grove, which is about 30 mins from Edmonton...but the stadium has been delayed and may not be happening at all from what it I heard this week.

TorontoDrew May 26, 2023 8:51 PM

Not a Canadian City but a Canadian team was there. I can't find an image from Wednesday Nights game but they only filled 8500 seats, probably half being Snowbirds. This has to be the worse Baseball park in the entire MLB league. If any city needs a retractable dome it's Tampa. Keep in mind the Rays are doing amazing right now. #1 in the whole MLB.

source: https://library.sportingnews.com
https://library.sportingnews.com/202...3mko2xuprm.jpg

thurmas May 26, 2023 8:53 PM

Florida in general is a terrible sports market.

Djeffery May 26, 2023 11:30 PM

The Rays wish they drew as well as the Lightning when they played there. (Come to think of it, they wish they drew what the Lightning draw where they play now too lol)

EpicPonyTime May 27, 2023 1:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimB09 (Post 9954449)
Edmonton's team was supposed to move to a brand new stadium in Spruce Grove, which is about 30 mins from Edmonton...but the stadium has been delayed and may not be happening at all from what it I heard this week.

Edmonton has a new baseball team in the stadium downtown, the Riverhawks. They actually draw quite well. Believe it is college ball?

TownGuy May 27, 2023 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 9954475)
Not a Canadian City but a Canadian team was there. I can't find an image from Wednesday Nights game but they only filled 8500 seats, probably half being Snowbirds. This has to be the worse Baseball park in the entire MLB league. If any city needs a retractable dome it's Tampa. Keep in mind the Rays are doing amazing right now. #1 in the whole MLB.

source: https://library.sportingnews.com
https://library.sportingnews.com/202...3mko2xuprm.jpg

Gotta love the old-timey tack-ons such as where the TB logo is in centrefield, and the wrought-iron type structure above the video screen.

I'm happy Rogers didn't choose to do that with the dome. They gave it personality but in a way that suits the ballpark. I saw some mockups where people added things such as red-brick facades. Skydome is never going to be that place.

esquire May 27, 2023 3:46 PM

^ Considering they are of a similar vintage, Skydome has aged way more gracefully than the Suncoast Dome. Although I suspect that the TB owners are kind of poisoning the well the same way that the owners in Oakland did. It's not that hard to maintain a stadium properly if you want to keep it for the long haul... conversely, it's easy to make it look like shit if you want to get someone to build you a new one.

esquire Jun 1, 2023 2:40 PM

Winnipeg's new CEBL team started up. They drew a good crowd to their home opener which they won, a lower bowl sellout at Canada Life Centre. I was there and it was a very exciting evening capped off with a win by the home team.

But what the CEBL is doing exceptionally well for a smaller pro league is getting their product out to a mass audience. They have a TSN game of the week, and all games are available on TSN+ (which I access through my smart TV so it's like watching anything else on TV, no computer or tablet fidgeting/casting required). The games are really well done, they have some well known broadcasters like Chuck Swirsky and Rod Black calling games. My son likes the CEBL so he puts the games to keep an eye on what's going on while he does other stuff. But wouldn't you know it, I often become intrigued by the action, and end up sitting down to watch.

Sometimes I wonder if smaller leagues get too captivated by the thought of some meager dollars that come their way with obscure streaming services (One Soccer, CHL TV, AHL TV, etc.) instead of chasing a broader audience through a mainstream broadcaster. There has to be a lot of value to the CEBL in having all their games available to anyone with a TSN subscription (which has to be the vast majority of speaking sports fans at least in English Canada, not sure what the RDS situation is). At the same time, good on TSN for giving that kind of exposure to a fledgling Canadian league.

https://lirp.cdn-website.com/8d6ff7b...C6102-640w.jpg

elly63 Jun 1, 2023 3:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958426)
But what the CEBL is doing exceptionally well for a smaller pro league is getting their product out to a mass audience

I used to watch the games on CBC (website) last year. I just checked and it doesn't seem like they have them anymore now that TSN is on the scene.

TSN to Showcase Canadian Elite Basketball League Game of the Week, Tipping Off May 24
Mar 16, 2023

esquire Jun 1, 2023 3:21 PM

^ CBC Gem worked too. The point is that putting games on some obscure streaming service where you charge an extra X dollars to watch is hindering your league's growth in the long run. Maybe a league with an established, devoted following can get away with that, but for something like the CEBL you want as many eyeballs on the product as possible. I think the CPL could stand to take a lesson from how the CEBL is doing it.

elly63 Jun 2, 2023 1:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958468)
^ CBC Gem worked too. The point is that putting games on some obscure streaming service where you charge an extra X dollars to watch is hindering your league's growth in the long run. Maybe a league with an established, devoted following can get away with that, but for something like the CEBL you want as many eyeballs on the product as possible. I think the CPL could stand to take a lesson from how the CEBL is doing it.

I think you are actually describing TSN there. I am reading everyday about the levels of cable viewership falling devastatingly. There have been companies in the US getting out of the cable business altogether. The pandemic has changed everything. Before it, I was predicting a slow decline of cable against the protestations of a few with an agenda against cable to support their argument. None of us would know what the pandemic would bring, cable viewership is falling off a cliff. I used to think the TV numbers reflected people losing interest in the CFL, now I'm not so sure, those numbers seem to mirror the number of people who no longer have cable.

esquire Jun 2, 2023 2:23 PM

^ I guess there are ultimately degrees of accessibility. Being on OTA TV or a free streaming service like CBC Gem or YouTube provides the maximum potential amount of exposure, but being on a mainstream cable channel like TSN is still a huge amount of exposure in its own right... TSN bills itself as the #1 specialty cable channel, and you would have to imagine that its reach is massive among people who are sports fans and therefore likely to watch a basketball game on TV. Same with SN.

Niche paid streaming services that focus on a single league or even sport have the effect of locking away the product from casual viewers. But it's those casual viewers who might be enticed to buy tickets and attend in person, buy merchandise, etc. I'm not sure how the CEBL finagled such a good arrangement with TSN but I'm sure it will pay off as having their games on TV gives the league a relatively high profile which should translate into more credibility in general.

thurmas Jun 2, 2023 2:24 PM

I think for the next few years you need a blended approach of both. All in cable is as mentioned here is a dying industry however all in on streaming severely limits number of people who know easily where your product is.

elly63 Jun 2, 2023 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9959336)
I think for the next few years you need a blended approach of both. All in cable is as mentioned here is a dying industry however all in on streaming severely limits number of people who know easily where your product is.

Agreed, but as someone who has not had cable/satellite for most of their life and who has defended the viability of cable just a few short years ago, lemme tell ya, she's dying fast, much faster than anticipated.

Another Cable TV Company is Shutting Down its TV Service As Only 10% of Its Customers Pay For TV
Luke Bouma cordcutternews June 1, 2023

esquire Jun 2, 2023 3:54 PM

I don't doubt that cable's long term outlook is not good, but certainly at the moment, and at least for the short term it will continue to have a pretty significant presence. Certainly for sports fans. I would imagine that the majority of sports fans in Canada (the kind of person who watches at least a few live games a year) have TSN or SN.

TorontoDrew Jun 2, 2023 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958426)
Winnipeg's new CEBL team started up. They drew a good crowd to their home opener which they won, a lower bowl sellout at Canada Life Centre. I was there and it was a very exciting evening capped off with a win by the home team.

But what the CEBL is doing exceptionally well for a smaller pro league is getting their product out to a mass audience. They have a TSN game of the week, and all games are available on TSN+ (which I access through my smart TV so it's like watching anything else on TV, no computer or tablet fidgeting/casting required). The games are really well done, they have some well known broadcasters like Chuck Swirsky and Rod Black calling games. My son likes the CEBL so he puts the games to keep an eye on what's going on while he does other stuff. But wouldn't you know it, I often become intrigued by the action, and end up sitting down to watch.

Sometimes I wonder if smaller leagues get too captivated by the thought of some meager dollars that come their way with obscure streaming services (One Soccer, CHL TV, AHL TV, etc.) instead of chasing a broader audience through a mainstream broadcaster. There has to be a lot of value to the CEBL in having all their games available to anyone with a TSN subscription (which has to be the vast majority of speaking sports fans at least in English Canada, not sure what the RDS situation is). At the same time, good on TSN for giving that kind of exposure to a fledgling Canadian league.

https://lirp.cdn-website.com/8d6ff7b...C6102-640w.jpg



Cool! I think most Canadians don't know how exciting Basketball is to watch in person. It's probably on par with Hockey for me to see live.

ericmacm Jun 2, 2023 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958426)
Winnipeg's new CEBL team started up. They drew a good crowd to their home opener which they won, a lower bowl sellout at Canada Life Centre. I was there and it was a very exciting evening capped off with a win by the home team.

But what the CEBL is doing exceptionally well for a smaller pro league is getting their product out to a mass audience. They have a TSN game of the week, and all games are available on TSN+ (which I access through my smart TV so it's like watching anything else on TV, no computer or tablet fidgeting/casting required). The games are really well done, they have some well known broadcasters like Chuck Swirsky and Rod Black calling games. My son likes the CEBL so he puts the games to keep an eye on what's going on while he does other stuff. But wouldn't you know it, I often become intrigued by the action, and end up sitting down to watch.

Sometimes I wonder if smaller leagues get too captivated by the thought of some meager dollars that come their way with obscure streaming services (One Soccer, CHL TV, AHL TV, etc.) instead of chasing a broader audience through a mainstream broadcaster. There has to be a lot of value to the CEBL in having all their games available to anyone with a TSN subscription (which has to be the vast majority of speaking sports fans at least in English Canada, not sure what the RDS situation is). At the same time, good on TSN for giving that kind of exposure to a fledgling Canadian league.

https://lirp.cdn-website.com/8d6ff7b...C6102-640w.jpg

Good for the Winnipeg Sea Bears and the CEBL. I still have my doubts about the long-term sustainability of the league, but it is starting off very strong and was able to weather some absolutely terrible years for sports, so it has plenty of hope yet. It’s also been really good to see that half the franchises now are owned by outside investors. Mainstream network exposure will help out a lot.

If they can secure any of the remaining Ontario teams from the NBLC, with at least the London Lightning and the Windsor Express (as they are the longest-lasting franchises), it will improve their product further. I really do believe that a regional approach will keep this league stable and allow it to grow instead of bleeding money on travel costs. It was disappointing to see the CEBL Growlers suspend operations so soon, but there was no way it was going to work. Introducing Atlantic Canada into the league at this point in time is not sustainable.

It has been good to see the western conference fill out with the new Calgary and Winnipeg teams. I am still skeptical of the stability of these teams given the larger travel distances (and therefore higher costs) involved in the western part of our country, but with two new teams, it already looks better. Filling in the distance gaps further with places like Kelowna and Regina should also help with stability in the future.

Denscity Jun 3, 2023 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9959416)
I don't doubt that cable's long term outlook is not good, but certainly at the moment, and at least for the short term it will continue to have a pretty significant presence. Certainly for sports fans. I would imagine that the majority of sports fans in Canada (the kind of person who watches at least a few live games a year) have TSN or SN.

Ya sports on the internet sucks. It’s embarrassing when you’ve got a bunch of people over for the “big game” and it cuts out a bunch of times.
People start to hit the exits.

elly63 Jun 3, 2023 1:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9959845)
Ya sports on the internet sucks. It’s embarrassing when you’ve got a bunch of people over for the “big game” and it cuts out a bunch of times. People start to hit the exits.

Are you on dialup or something?

Djeffery Jun 3, 2023 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericmacm (Post 9959754)

If they can secure any of the remaining Ontario teams from the NBLC, with at least the London Lightning and the Windsor Express (as they are the longest-lasting franchises), it will improve their product further. .

There is talk that the 4 remaining NLBC teams in Ontario are joining the new Super League

esquire Jun 3, 2023 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9959889)
There is talk that the 4 remaining NLBC teams in Ontario are joining the new Super League

Makes sense to me. It's clear that CEBL has won the war. At this point there's no logic in having two competing leagues anymore, to the extent that they compete. I wonder if Sudbury will be welcomed into the CEBL though? It's a pretty small and remote locale.

While we're on the topic, Teddy Buckets with the huge record-tying personal performance for the Sea Bears last night...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fxqs88UXgAAFqEF.png

Djeffery Jun 3, 2023 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9960132)
Makes sense to me. It's clear that CEBL has won the war. At this point there's no logic in having two competing leagues anymore, to the extent that they compete. I wonder if Sudbury will be welcomed into the CEBL though? It's a pretty small and remote locale.

From my understanding of the limited info that has come out, the NBLC will basically roll into the Super League, and will still compete with CEBL in the limited way NBLC currently does. Even the current commissioner of NBLC is talking about taking a roll within the Super League (which itself was started by a former NBLC commissioner)

Denscity Jun 3, 2023 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9959864)
Are you on dialup or something?

I’ve got cable actually.
A buddy of mine throws on the odd basketball game so I go over and we have to restart the feed of find a new one most times.

elly63 Jun 3, 2023 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9960386)
I’ve got cable actually.
A buddy of mine throws on the odd basketball game so I go over and we have to restart the feed of find a new one most times.

Are you talking about an illegal stream?

le calmar Jun 4, 2023 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9960386)
I’ve got cable actually.
A buddy of mine throws on the odd basketball game so I go over and we have to restart the feed of find a new one most times.

I knew you were a Raptors fan deep inside.

Denscity Jun 4, 2023 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 9960413)
I knew you were a Raptors fan deep inside.

Haha actually I'm not my favourite teams are in the same time zone and a lot closer in California. But buddy moved to Castlegar from Toronto and he cheers for them and I keep quiet lol.

thurmas Jun 4, 2023 8:24 PM

http://www.sportsbusinesssims.com/nhl-team-payrolls.htm

NHL Team Payrolls
1989-90 to 2003-04

https://crashingthegoalie.wordpress....ies-1987-1990/

SPORT – June, 1987

1. Wayne Gretzky – Oilers – $950,000 CDN – (converted to $717,250 USD)
2. Marcel Dionne – Rangers – $700,000
3. Mike Bossy – Islanders – $650,000
4. Bryan Trottier – Islanders – $625,000
5. Dave Taylor – Kings – $600,000
6. Mario Lemieux – Penguins – $550,000
5. Denis Potvin – Islanders – $550,000
8. Mike Liut – Whalers – $450,000
9. Rod Langway – Capitals – $400,000
10. Barry Pederson – Canucks – $350,000

SPORT – June, 1989

1. Gretzky – Kings – $2 million
2. Lemieux – Penguins – $1.5 million
3. Trottier – Islanders – $950,000
4. Taylor – Kings – $700,000
5. Dionne – Rangers – $600,000
6. Liut – Whalers – $550,000
7. Goulet – Nordiques – $510,000
8. Messier – Oilers – $510,000
9. Savard – Blackhawks – $500,000
10. Coffey – Penguins – $485,000
11. Duguay – Kings – $475,000
12. Hawerchuk – Jets – $467,500
13. Stastny – Nordiques – $446,250
14. Carpenter – Bruins – $425,000
15. LaFontaine – Islanders – $425,000
16. Gustafsson – Capitals – $410,000
17. Stevens -Capitals – $400,000
18. Pederson – Canucks – $400,000
19. Bourque – Bruins – $380,000
20. Fuhr – Oilers – $340,000
20. Robinson – Canadiens – $340,000

manny_santos Jun 4, 2023 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9959299)
I think you are actually describing TSN there. I am reading everyday about the levels of cable viewership falling devastatingly. There have been companies in the US getting out of the cable business altogether. The pandemic has changed everything. Before it, I was predicting a slow decline of cable against the protestations of a few with an agenda against cable to support their argument. None of us would know what the pandemic would bring, cable viewership is falling off a cliff. I used to think the TV numbers reflected people losing interest in the CFL, now I'm not so sure, those numbers seem to mirror the number of people who no longer have cable.

I was surprised to find out that the Stanley Cup final is exclusively on cable in the US this year, for the first time in 30 years. All the games are on TNT, so no games will be shown on ABC.

That seems counterproductive these days.

gattaca Jun 5, 2023 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9959332)
^ I guess there are ultimately degrees of accessibility. Being on OTA TV or a free streaming service like CBC Gem or YouTube provides the maximum potential amount of exposure, but being on a mainstream cable channel like TSN is still a huge amount of exposure in its own right... TSN bills itself as the #1 specialty cable channel, and you would have to imagine that its reach is massive among people who are sports fans and therefore likely to watch a basketball game on TV. Same with SN.

Niche paid streaming services that focus on a single league or even sport have the effect of locking away the product from casual viewers. But it's those casual viewers who might be enticed to buy tickets and attend in person, buy merchandise, etc. I'm not sure how the CEBL finagled such a good arrangement with TSN but I'm sure it will pay off as having their games on TV gives the league a relatively high profile which should translate into more credibility in general.


CEBL is getting $0 from TSN and paying for production costs. Canada Soccer had similar deal with TSN/SN for 30 years which didn't grow the game to any degree, cost them $1 million/yr and TSN/SN didn't show about 50% of the matches.

Despite CEBL being on CBC for the past few years, CPL has 2-100x higher social media engagement across platforms such as twitter, youtube & reddit.

Now with Cdn households dropping linear tv subs by 40% in the past decade, the pentration rate has dropped below 50%. It now also skews >55 age group which isn't core audience that will grow soccer in Canada. Soccer demos are also the most likely group of sports fans to stream since paid linear tv never provided adequate coverage. It's why there are about 6 sports streamers in Canada focused on the sport.

MLS 1.0 showed catering to casuals or soccer moms didn't work (again) for a North American soccer league. They don't attend enough matches to matter and don't buy kits every year.

It's only when they shifted to focusing on existing footy followers including Hispanics that their growth grew materially. And as seen by their Apple TV deal, casuals still don't watch MLS to any large degree but the league has expanded 2x since TFC came into the league.

esquire Jun 5, 2023 6:41 PM

^ So where are the results, then? Speaking from my local experience, the CEBL team just showed up in Winnipeg and they have blown away Valour FC in terms of building a profile. There has only been one Sea Bears home game and my son and I can already easily name more Sea Bears players than Valour players. Sea Bears get some discussion time in the paper and on the local sports shows as compared to Valour, which seldom does. Valour did reasonably well in their first season but they have fizzled since then... they are probably roughly on par with the Winnipeg Goldeyes in terms of the mindshare they have among local sports fans. I say this as someone who would like to see the club thrive, but they seem to exist in their own little bubble.

I find it hard to believe that the exposure provided by cable TV doesn't play into this situation.

Acajack Jun 5, 2023 8:40 PM

Can someone please explain to me why a team in Winnipeg is called the Sea Bears?

Denscity Jun 5, 2023 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9961370)
Can someone please explain to me why a team in Winnipeg is called the Sea Bears?

That's what I asked as well.
Apparently they're calling their polar bears sea bears as opposed to bay bears.

Acajack Jun 5, 2023 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9961374)
That's what I asked as well.
Apparently they're calling their polar bears sea bears as opposed to bay bears.

Why not just call them the Polar Bears then?

(I honestly thought this was a team that moved from Atlantic Canada.)

trueviking Jun 5, 2023 9:09 PM

it's truly a dumb name.

The Sea Bears name was chosen in honour of the polar bear, whose Latin name, Ursus maritimus, means "sea bear." Manitoba is known for its polar bears at Hudson Bay.

trueviking Jun 5, 2023 9:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9961262)
^ So where are the results, then? Speaking from my local experience, the CEBL team just showed up in Winnipeg and they have blown away Valour FC in terms of building a profile. There has only been one Sea Bears home game and my son and I can already easily name more Sea Bears players than Valour players. Sea Bears get some discussion time in the paper and on the local sports shows as compared to Valour, which seldom does. Valour did reasonably well in their first season but they have fizzled since then... they are probably roughly on par with the Winnipeg Goldeyes in terms of the mindshare they have among local sports fans. I say this as someone who would like to see the club thrive, but they seem to exist in their own little bubble.

I find it hard to believe that the exposure provided by cable TV doesn't play into this situation.

might have to give it some time before announcing their unbridled success....first game had some exposure, but will it last? Valour had 10,000 to their first game in 2019 and now draw a couple thousand....let's at least see how the summer goes....i'm pretty sure 99.9999% of people in Winnipeg couldn't name a single sea bear and almost as many couldn't name the sport they play.

esquire Jun 5, 2023 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9961390)
Why not just call them the Polar Bears then?

(I honestly thought this was a team that moved from Atlantic Canada.)

Polar bears are kind of a big deal here even though they're Churchill's and not ours :haha: Churchill is only 1000 km away, no big deal, right?

Best guess as to why not simply name the team polar bears is that the name was already trademarked for one reason or another.

The polar bear identity was used by the Winnipeg Thunder of the WBL/NBL in the early 90s. Same colours and everything. So I guess Sea Bears just kind of built on that.

The old:

https://i.etsystatic.com/16103601/r/...82990_elob.jpg

The new:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/d8d53c44...ears-logos.png

esquire Jun 5, 2023 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking (Post 9961408)
might have to give it some time before announcing their unbridled success....first game had some exposure, but will it last? Valour had 10,000 to their first game in 2019 and now draw a couple thousand....let's at least see how the summer goes....i'm pretty sure 99.9999% of people in Winnipeg couldn't name a single sea bear and almost as many couldn't name the sport they play.

Valour did get off to a hot start, it's true. But seemingly everything that could go wrong for them has gone wrong. The biggest thing obviously not being their fault (the pandemic), but even a lot of things under their control have gone off the rails, which is unfortunate.

But the point is that CEBL's accessibility via TSN gives the Sea Bears a major promotional advantage that the CPL lacks. The CPL is kind of out of sight, out of mind for many.

thurmas Jun 5, 2023 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9961413)
Polar bears are kind of a big deal here even though they're Churchill's and not ours :haha: Churchill is only 1000 km away, no big deal, right?

Best guess as to why not simply name the team polar bears is that the name was already trademarked for one reason or another.

The polar bear identity was used by the Winnipeg Thunder of the WBL/NBL in the early 90s. Same colours and everything. So I guess Sea Bears just kind of built on that.

The old:

https://i.etsystatic.com/16103601/r/...82990_elob.jpg

The new:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/d8d53c44...ears-logos.png

See Bears. Name makes sense

trueviking Jun 5, 2023 9:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958468)
^ CBC Gem worked too. The point is that putting games on some obscure streaming service where you charge an extra X dollars to watch is hindering your league's growth in the long run. Maybe a league with an established, devoted following can get away with that, but for something like the CEBL you want as many eyeballs on the product as possible. I think the CPL could stand to take a lesson from how the CEBL is doing it.

i guess I'm old, but having each sport on its own streaming service is terrible.....I used to watch premiership football every saturday, but I'm not enough of a fan to pay for it alone....it must be devastating for growing the sport in Canada...its basically vanished from the scene....i'm a soccer fan, but I don't want to pay for a streaming service to watch national team and CPL, another for Bundesliga, another for Premiership.....then another for rugby, another for F1....and then have cable to watch the Jets.

trueviking Jun 5, 2023 9:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9961425)
Valour did get off to a hot start, it's true. But seemingly everything that could go wrong for them has gone wrong. The biggest thing obviously not being their fault (the pandemic), but even a lot of things under their control have gone off the rails, which is unfortunate.

But the point is that CEBL's accessibility via TSN gives the Sea Bears a major promotional advantage that the CPL lacks. The CPL is kind of out of sight, out of mind for many.

it doesnt help playing in a 30,000 seat stadium to be honest....i went to a Valour game last year and the atmosphere was lousy.

thurmas Jun 6, 2023 2:53 PM

https://3downnation.com/2023/06/06/2...cast-audience/

2023 CFL preseason TV ratings: Riders’ win over Bombers provides worthy TSN broadcast audience


TSN chose to cut its 2023 Canadian Football League preseason coverage in half, dropping from four to two television broadcasts. But even that small sample size shows viewers were jonesing for CFL ball.

The Saskatchewan Roughriders 28-16 win over the Winnipeg Blue Bombers drew more eyeballs on TV than many regular season games did last year — one tilt in Week 21 last year had less than 200,000 viewers. Clearly, Rider Nation wanted to see Trevor Harris play in green and white for the first time, despite the game not counting in the standings.

Harris went four-of-four passing for 72 yards with one touchdown strike to Derel Walker in his only exhibition drive. The performance helped the Riders go 2-0 in the preseason for the first time since 2007. Excitement surrounding the new-look Saskatchewan squad led to a rating over 360,000 on TSN.

The other tune-up contest broadcast nationally by TSN was the Alouettes visiting the Redblacks on May 26. Cody Fajardo did not play in the game but it still attracted more than 275,000 viewers on TSN and RDS combined. Fajardo put on Als colours for the first time in Montreal’s last preseason tilt, which was aired exclusively on RDS, TSN’s French-language affiliate, and produced a respectable viewing audience.

Every other preseason game was streamed by the league on its CFL+ platform as radio calls were synced with the moving pictures for most of the matchups. The product was solid but it was not up to the standard of a regular TSN broadcast.

CFL preseason TV ratings 2023:

Week 1:

Montreal vs. Ottawa — 275,900 (TSN and RDS combined)

Week 2:

Hamilton vs. Montreal — 140,400 (RDS)
Saskatchewan vs. Winnipeg — 361,700 (TSN)

blueandgoldguy Jun 6, 2023 11:11 PM

The demographics would probably be favorable to the long-term success of semi-pro basketball in Winnipeg. There are approx. 90,000 Filippinos in the city and they tend to gravitate towards basketball.

Many recent immigrants to Winnipeg are Sikh. I'm not sure to what degree they enjoy basketball as a spectator sport. If they do, that would probably be encouraging sign for pro ball in Winnipeg.

elly63 Jun 8, 2023 4:24 PM

Cable TV Numbers Are Falling Faster Than Expected
Kayla Wassell cordcuttersnews.com June 8, 2023

gattaca Jun 12, 2023 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueviking (Post 9961430)
i guess I'm old, but having each sport on its own streaming service is terrible.....I used to watch premiership football every saturday, but I'm not enough of a fan to pay for it alone....it must be devastating for growing the sport in Canada...its basically vanished from the scene....i'm a soccer fan, but I don't want to pay for a streaming service to watch national team and CPL, another for Bundesliga, another for Premiership.....then another for rugby, another for F1....and then have cable to watch the Jets.

The Prem moving to streaming provided a cambrian style explosion that has led to the golden age of soccer viewing in Canada.

DAZN paved the way for 6+ foreign-owned sports streamers focused on soccer to come to Canada. The Prem's success at DAZN led fubo to outbid them for the Prem.

Now, we can watch 70+ leagues/tourneys - basically at least one match everyday.

gattaca Jun 12, 2023 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9961425)
Valour did get off to a hot start, it's true. But seemingly everything that could go wrong for them has gone wrong. The biggest thing obviously not being their fault (the pandemic), but even a lot of things under their control have gone off the rails, which is unfortunate.

But the point is that CEBL's accessibility via TSN gives the Sea Bears a major promotional advantage that the CPL lacks. The CPL is kind of out of sight, out of mind for many.

Based on social media metrics, CPL has much more engaged fans than for CEBL even though latter has been much more on linear tv in the past 5 years.

CPL has 3x more twitter followers, 4x more on Youtube & 9.5x more on reddit. Part of it is CEBL is viewed more as a night out entertainment while CPL is viewed in bigger picture terms and has bigger picture ambitions given it is Canada's entrance into global club football & league echo system.

esquire Jun 13, 2023 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gattaca (Post 9967250)
Based on social media metrics, CPL has much more engaged fans than for CEBL even though latter has been much more on linear tv in the past 5 years.

CPL has 3x more twitter followers, 4x more on Youtube & 9.5x more on reddit. Part of it is CEBL is viewed more as a night out entertainment while CPL is viewed in bigger picture terms and has bigger picture ambitions given it is Canada's entrance into global club football & league echo system.

I get that, and there is no question that being part of a "bigger picture" matters a lot in terms of the relevance of a league. It's why, say, the CHL is more interesting and compelling than low-level bus leagues like the SPHL even though the latter is technically a higher level given that it's professional.

But that said, and maybe this is a localized situation specific to Winnipeg, the fact is that Valour is having trouble getting traction with thin crowds and very little prominence in the local sports media. They get a couple of news articles a week but very little chatter on the local sports shows, podcasts, etc. This is a bit surprising to me, I would have expected that the soccer community alone would have kept it on the forefront. But they have lost the casual fans and even the soccer diehards are dropping off.

Contrast with the Sea Bears... it's broadly analogous to the CPL in terms of its overall level, but there seems to be much more fan interest so far into the season. The fact that a prior-to-now totally unknown league in Winnipeg can pull in an average of over 6,000 fans through two games speaks to a significant demand for basketball. The basketball community is showing up for the Sea Bears in a way that the soccer community simply is not for Valour. I wonder how much of the CPL's engagement is coming from outside the country, given the number of foreign-born players in the league?

thurmas Jun 14, 2023 11:25 PM

https://3downnation.com/2023/06/14/2...ear-over-year/

2023 CFL Week 1 English TV ratings down 12 percent year-over-year

Sometimes, and quite frankly too often, the CFL doesn’t do itself any favours. Exhibit A: the CFL’s choice for its 2023 season opener.

There’s a new major United States network broadcasting the three-down league and Jim Nantz was on the airwaves during The Memorial hosted by Jack Nicklaus, one of the top PGA Tour tournaments outside of the majors, promoting the Lions versus Stampeders. Interested fans who tuned in saw a half-empty McMahon Stadium.

Any Jimmy, Joe or Jenny could’ve predicted a sparse crowd in Calgary, especially considering president of business operations Jay McNeil revealed the team’s season ticket holders have decreased by 25 percent since 2019. On top of that, recent ratings data would indicate that — intriguing Nathan Rourke performances aside — the Leos and Stampeders are not large TV draws.

Bo Levi Mitchell brings in eyeballs. It’s easy to say in hindsight but the CFL should have put the Tiger-Cats versus Blue Bombers game first on the schedule. The league could also have simply copied what the NFL does, which is match the defending champions against a sexy team. They could have had the reigning Grey Cup champion Argonauts at the start of the Chad Kelly era with multiple opponent options.

Mitchell travelling down the QEW for his first game with the Ticats against their storied rivals would’ve ensured hype around the matchup and lots of black and gold fans making the short trip to check out Hamiton’s new franchise quarterback. You could have had the pomp and circumstance of the Argonauts’ 109th Grey Cup banner unveiling and the rest.

The league could have also sent Kelly and the Argos to Winnipeg or Saskatchewan where the fans would have shown out.

This is about making the league look cool and exciting to a first-time audience. Commissioner Randy Ambrosie wants the CFL to have ‘some swagger’ but that wasn’t the case with a CFL kickoff game that had 17,000 and change in attendance with less than a quarter-million people watching in Canada.

There was plenty of competition on TV for Thursday night’s CFL opener, which was beyond the league’s control. The Toronto Blue Jays beat the Houston Astros 3-2 with 876,700 people tuning in on Sportsnet. 1,660,100 watched Game 3 of the Stanley Cup Final on Sportsnet and CBC as the Florida Panthers edged the Las Vegas Golden Knights 3-2 in overtime.

Friday Night Football went over 500,000 viewers on TSN in a fun 42-31 win by the Blue Bombers over the Tabbies. The Alouettes and Redblacks’ defensive tilt on Saturday night had a decent number considering it was directly against Game 4 of the Stanley Cup Final, which drew 1,853,200 viewers on Sportsnet and CBC. Finally, the Roughriders and Elks produced the highest-rated CFL game in Week 1.

English TV ratings were down over 12 percent compared to the first week of regular season Canadian football one year ago.

2023 Week 1 TV ratings:

Thursday
B.C. at Calgary — 226,900

Friday
Hamilton at Winnipeg — 511,500

Saturday
Ottawa at Montreal — 278,500 English and 174,000 French

Sunday
Saskatchewan at Edmonton — 535,300

Total Week 1 average: 388,050 (French included: 431,550)

2022 Week 1 TV ratings:

Thursday
Montreal at Calgary — 345,500

Friday
Ottawa at Winnipeg — 434,000

Saturday
Hamilton at Saskatchewan — 557,000
Edmonton at B.C. — 430,000

Total Week 1 average: 441,625

2021 Week 1 TV ratings:

Thursday
Hamilton at Winnipeg — 683,100

Friday
B.C. at Saskatchewan — 764,600

Saturday
Toronto at Calgary — 318,400
Ottawa at Edmonton — 341,700

Total Week 1 average: 526,950

2019 Week 1 TV ratings:

Thursday
Saskatchewan at Hamilton — 522,100

Friday
Montreal at Edmonton — 395,600
(French viewership on RDS — 140,000)

Saturday
Ottawa at Calgary — 490,100
Winnipeg at B.C. — 685,800

Total Week 1 average: 523,400

VANRIDERFAN Jun 15, 2023 2:53 PM

I’ll see if I can find a link but Stanley Cup Final was done 47% in Canada. According to twitter.

thurmas Jun 15, 2023 3:02 PM

Stanley Cup finals ratings down 43% in u.s. this year too. Combination off all sunbelt finals and games only on cable hurt.

Hawrylyshyn Jun 15, 2023 3:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9961413)
Polar bears are kind of a big deal here even though they're Churchill's and not ours :haha: Churchill is only 1000 km away, no big deal, right?

Best guess as to why not simply name the team polar bears is that the name was already trademarked for one reason or another.

The polar bear identity was used by the Winnipeg Thunder of the WBL/NBL in the early 90s. Same colours and everything. So I guess Sea Bears just kind of built on that.

The new:

https://irp.cdn-website.com/d8d53c44...ears-logos.png

We all know THIS is a true sea bear

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cf/c7...44b0d12a80.jpg


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