I say turn it in to a public market!!!-- with hotel rooms--best views in the city

This is precisely what I think the Blazers are doing. I think they're jerking us along with talk of saving it and repurposing it, none of which will ever happen. I mean, really now, it's been 25 years, what's another decade or two? The day the Blazers want a new arena, the MC will be leveled. Until then, it's a money pit. And when the Blazers do level it to build a new arena, there will be excuse after excuse about why the Rose Garden will need to be saved and repurposed... lather, rinse, repeat.

As bad of shape that the arena itself is in, it's auxiliary facilities like the basement conference spaces are even worse. They literally haven't been updated since the early 80s at best. If someone could find the money to update it as a top-notch hockey facility, great - but we all know the Portland City Council is never going to do that. Money on sports? Ha!

I'm pretty sure the Blazers aren't going to want (or need) a new arena anytime in the next 20 years. The arena is already too big as it originally had 21,400 seats and now there's about 2,000 less seats now per NBA game. They've also done millions of dollars in upkeep and renovations over the last five years, and can do much more before they need a new structure.

It is in good shape, it is a piece of mid-century modern design, also it is still very useful in the sense that it provides Portland with a midsized arena.

You don't need a midsize arena when you have the Rose garden next door

The Rose Garden and Memorial Coliseum are different sizes and serve different events. One existing doesn't negate the usefulness of the other. If you want to make a similar argument, a better approach would be to say there aren't enough events of the size served by VMC to justify its existence. I don't buy into that notion based on what I have read, and I'm absolutely rooting for its survival.

I'm not so sure about that. Detroit is building a new arena and leaving the Palace of Auburn Hills. Phoenix is planning to build a new arena. The Warriors are also getting a new on in SF. Dallas has talked about a new arena too.

It all boils down to revenue generation. Concrete arenas are really hard to remodel and structurally change the seat configuration. The are too many suites at the Moda up high but none at the lower levels, which could command higher prices. At some of the newer arenas, the upper level is being turned into a party zone to financially compensate for the cheap seats. It's not about the seat count anymore or the ability to do a soft remodel. If the Blazers think the current configuration isn't a money maker, they will want a new arena.

The Moda is (surprisingly) 22 years old. It's not too far-fetched to think that the Blazers will want to start discussions about a replacement within the next decade.

Why is it that you and others fail to see studies after studies showing VMC is a money pit that won't generate any positive revenue?

Bumping this because we've discussed it before (read back the last few pages). In terms of number of seats VMC fills a niche in the metro area market very nicely, however is currently underused due to lack of loading dock, ability to rig for heavy shows, etc.

That is what we might call an "alternative fact". Here are the financials from the most recent study:

Please link us to those studies. Here is a link to the VMC Options Study that includes the second chart maccoinnich posted. It's pretty informative, but if you have current studies that disagree with their findings I would love to read them too. I appreciate that we all have opinions on this, but I haven't seen substantive evidence that VMC is doomed to always be the money pit it currently is.

Sadly, there is one missing that a city the size of ours should have, thats a 35-55k seat stadium. MC site would be a excellent location for one. Its sad that the states largest venues are 1.5 and 2.5 hours away from the Portland Metro area in Corvallis and Eugene. We would certainly host some pretty good events with such a venue.

Why do you as an "innovative thinker" fail to see that a fixed up Memorial Coliseum could be financially feasible and an asset to that area? Take a walk around that area some time. That building is by far the best element of the area architecturally. With a little TLC that building could be brilliant.

Best element of the area architecturally? Disagree. It's a glass box. The roof of the Moda Center is much more attractive. The only thing the arena misses, is maybe, more glass surrounding it. But it is a very nice design that holds up today against others. The only thing I really don't care for is the attached parking structure.

Everybody seems to come up with different numbers for Memorial Coliseum's finances. I'd love to see real honest numbers showing the total amount of money the Coliseum has made or lost, decade by decade, since the Blazers left.

Source.

I think Memorial Coliseum is going to stagnate until the Blazers want the space for a new arena (or something else?)... or until it falls down. The cost of preparing that building to withstand an earthquake is probably staggering, and that's without doing any upgrades at all other than preventing it from falling down.

I think the MC is gorgeous, but I also think it's a massive waste of land. Compare how Providence Park fits into Goose Hollow with how much land the Blazers have eaten up. I'm still not convinced we couldn't fit a baseball stadium on that spot, but that's a topic for another day. And there will be plenty of other days for the discussion. Come back a decade from now and the topic will probably be the same.

Oracle Arena (Warriors) is just 5 years younger than Memorial Coliseum and the Warriors are a perennial contender for the NBA title. It makes sense they're getting a new arena and in a completely different city.

Talking Sticks (Suns) was poorly designed and has not aged well. I used to go to Coyotes/Suns games there and you'd have to watch half the game on the screens because the odd octagonal bowl created obstructed views for thousands of seats in the upper bowl. Phoenix also has a very strange relationship with local arenas. The Coyotes are either getting a new arena or moving to a new market even though Gila River Arena only opened in late 2003 (location, location, I know...) I went to the grand opening of Chase Field in '98 and there's absolutely no reason why it can't be renovated for the Diamondbacks for another 20 years, but they're seriously considering building a new ballpark. Phoenix...

The Palace, although only 8 years older than the Rose Garden, is being abandoned for Little Caesars Arena (awful name) not because they were searching for a new arena, but the Red Wings are building LCA and the Pistons have signed on as a tenant well after the arena was already going up.

Some arenas, Philips Arena and Target Center to name a two, are looking to improve their revenue stream because they have less than 16,000 and 15,000 home game crowds respectively. The Rose Garden is 9th in the league this year for average attendance, 19,000+ per game on average in one of the smallest markets and on an off year, until recently. While the suites are weirdly far removed from the action (I much prefer the 100 bowl to a suite) the very large and hugely expensive 200 level makes the arena very profitable. Add in a healthy cut from concessions and the parking garages, I'm sure Paul Allen is pleased with the arena's performance.

That the Blazers are also contractually obligated to play in Portland until 2025 also makes talks for a new arena years off at best.

Stadiums aren't one size fits all, it actually makes sense to have more than one arena of different sizes.

Not really. Just put curtains up on the 300 level like they do now anyways for smaller events

And what if the Moda Center is being used? Can't have two events going at the same time.

Really? lol you know their smart enough to schedule appropriately

Currently they can schedule two events at the same time. How would they be able to schedule two events at the same time with only one arena? We have a unique situation that is good for the city to have both arenas functioning. You can deny that all you want, but that fact is still valid. Also the current state of the Coliseum is still profitable, so why get rid of something that is making a profit?

Source.

Nope that's where your wrong. It doesn't make a profit. It's a money pit

And yet the article you link shows that it would make an operating profit in the most realistic of the renovation scenarios.

An operating profit, assuming the predictions turn out to be true... but how many decades would it take to work off the debt?

Clearly they don't care if it's not making money. They just like to look at it so nothing else matters

Clearly you don't see the benefit of having the Memorial Coliseum, so what's the point of even talking about this since this conversation has gone nowhere...

The two redundant venue argument is stale. Just look at Staples Center, they have the Lakers, Clippers and Kings as well as a host of other events going on and they manage to make it work. It just takes creative scheduling on their part sometimes.

The truth is somewhere in the middle as usual. I don't know where but will take a crack at it.

Moda Center could handle most bookings by itself but it would miss some, and those might skip Portland. (PS, LA has numerous arenas and stadiums.)

Renovation would cost a lot. Revenues might cover heat, lights, event staff, etc., but there's zero chance of recovering the renovation dollars. The argument for keeping the arena therefore relies on the public benefits of whatever use the arena will have, including the historic argument and the specific activities. Maybe there's a case for that.

I'd add that there's also opportunity cost. Could the site be sold or leased? Assuming eight acres, with urban zoning it seems like it could be worth over $100,000,000.

On the flip side, a large publicly-owned parcel is a very useful commodity, and will be increasingly important as Portland densifies and grows.

While there is certainly value in the land, there's no way it's worth $100 million. The PDC paid $88 million for the post office site, which is 2.4x as large, in a more desirable location, and unencumbered by a National Register listed building.

Good points, but I'm surprised at how little the post office site got.

I believe for the Memorial Coliseum remodel to really gain traction it needs a viable sports tenant as a anchor. That may or may not be the Winterhawks. They draw way better at the Moda but that maybe because the best games are at the Moda and the Coliseum is such a dump right now. The Winterhawks have said in the past they are willing to be that anchor tenant. If so, they need to step up and make it happen. The other potential anchor tenant is Portland State. They are building a new arena but at 3000 seats, it's kind of a joke. If the team can ever get its act together and become a real draw, they might be the perfect tenant to get a coliseum remodel going.

Remodeling the MC without a plan in mind that gets the public excited is going to continue to fail up to the point where the MC will eventually be comdemed for being unsafe. Remodeling the place to keep the current hodge podge users isn't going to work. I still like the idea of turning it in an ice center. Winterhawks use it as their training facility and arena, the public gets to use it during the rest of the time. It might even encourage some high schools to put together hockey leagues.

WinterHawks could be the new Timbers. There were people wanting to tear down the timbers stadium as well. You just need a bit of "innovative" thinking and Memorial Coliseum would be a huge asset to the community. The larger question is where is Paul Allen. Guy spends like crazy up in Seattle but lets the Rose Q rot. Everything around him is booming.

I get the feeling that the only civic interest Allen has in Portland is the Blazers.

I've thought about this for years now. He also owns that vacant piece of land on the river between the Broadway bridge and the silos. It's begging for redevelopment but he obviously just does not care about our city's urban fabric in any way. And obviously he doesn't need to think about money on that level. That would be a huge advantage, I'm guessing, to his selling the team to someone local one of these days, as unlikely as it may be. Someone like Merritt Paulson, who apparently has the good taste to hire Allied Works for the Providence Park expansion...

thank you and mind you LA and staples center have TONS of events and make it work

This argument just doesn't hold water. As much as I love going to Hawks games (they just advanced to the second round of the playoffs!), they play in a junior hockey league, not the suddenly red-hot MLS that billionaires are throwing hundreds of millions of dollars at for expansion teams. The Hawks are one of the best draws in junior hockey, but they'd never draw more than 10,000 consistently.

I was thinking the same thing. The Winterhawks aren't enough of a draw. Neither are the Portland Thunder (and, holy moly, what an awful name! Portland Thunder? Has whoever came up with that name ever been to Portland? Thunder is rare here).

EDIT: Well well... I didn't realize that last year, the Portland Thunder became the Portland Steel - another wtf name. And this year, the team folded.

Last time I checked, there are more than one arena in LA....so they make it work by having multiple arenas and event spaces.

As noted earlier, that Staples Center ALONE hosts (2) NBA teams and an NHL team. There's just no need for a second arena.

Keep in mind, LA and Portland are not the same size, so sure, the Staple Center handles two NBA teams and an NHL team, but the surrounding arenas and venues handle the stuff the Staples Center can't handle. It makes no sense to get rid of something that works just fine and is able to be used for events that can't go in the Moda Center.

...continues at BikePortland.

But if that happens, where will a MLB stadium go? One can dream about rooting for the Portland Beavers some day.

In order to to properly unify this district it appears they've gone underground with that nasty stretch of I-5 between the Moda Center and the Fremont Bridge. Beaver Stadium is underground also, directly beneath Memorial Coliseum – now just an empty shell with a glass floor that doubles as the ballpark roof. Imagine standing on that thing watching the game unfold (slowly, of course) below your feet! On sunny days the Coliseum walls hinge outward allowing the ballpark to rise majestically to the surface – in subtle homage to those funky sidewalk elevators downtown*.

A reasonable person might question the resulting field dimensions – which, based on the Coliseum's existing footprint and allowing for grandstands to accommodate 45,000 or so, would compare favorably with a decent-size little league field – but I view this as a plus since the Beav's had a hard enough time hitting the ball out of modestly-sized Civic Stadium. It goes without saying that their GM would need to focus on acquiring a top-notch pitching staff.

*this is pure speculation on my part.

If we are lucky we might get an NHL team. I currently have to drive up to Vancouver if I want to catch a NHL game and the league is primed for a west coast expansion. I know it will probably go to Seattle, but I don't want to give up hope.

I am actually surprised the NHL hasn't put a team in both Seattle and Portland. That would make for quite a Cascadia rivalry with the three Northwest cities.

Yea I'm baffled by that as well. You would think the NHL would love that

I'd take a NHL team over a MLB team any day. Baseball is the sports equivalent of Ambien.:yuck:

The worst part is that the Moda Center is ready to go and has been for years. All that needs to happen is for someone to buy a team and move them in.