SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

thenoflyzone Jun 14, 2022 7:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9649265)
No no wait. Swoop has nothing to do with WestJet right wink wink? Which is it? There should be more WestJet haters in the country than for AC. So WestJet is willing to back Swoop but not Swoop's customers when they get stranded or have to wait 12 hours to reach their call center? Swoop is a predator airline nothing more, isn't that a bad strategy or should i say illegal?

Your comment about subsidies as a strategy is laughable. Just go talk to Bombardier in your backyard and see how that company has survived with Canadian taxpayers money. The reason why companies ask for subsidies is because stupid government employees are willing to pay money out that's not theirs. Oh and BTW is not Swoop subsidized by WestJet by your argument? If Swoop loses money then WestJet will cover it. See subsidies do work... ...sort of. Air Canada in the old days. Alitalia forever and so on.

I think what you want to say is subsidies are ethically wrong and no company should get any and I agree with you on that. And in a purely capitalist system that works but most of the world is capitalist with an asterisk. Still, it is a system by far better than socialism, communism, authoritarianism. For those that don't think so, Cuba, Russia, Belarus, Iran, Syria, Venezuela, China, Hong Kong and North Korea are all waiting for you to relocate.

If a couple people get to go to Tucson for $99 more power to them. Again AC isn't after low hanging fruit but WestJet is.

1. I never said Swoop has nothing to do with westjet. The manner in which WS decided to integrate Swoop customers with mainline customers is their business, and frankly is irrelevant here. Financially speaking, they are one and the same company. That's what matters here.

2. I am in no way condoning the predatory behavior of Swoop of late. AC has been guilty of doing this in the past as well, and in no way do I support it. But let's be clear, this is another discussion entirely.

3. Bombardier, like most big corporations that employ tens of thousands of high paying and skilled Canadian labor jobs, will always get government bailouts or subsidies when needed. That's just the way it works. I'm guessing you think Flair somehow qualifies as a big and indispensable corporation. Lol.

And Stop bashing Quebec. Ontario subsidizes the auto industry. I'm sure Alberta bends over backwards for the oil industry as well. This is not a Quebec specific thing.

4. As for your "swoop is subsidized by WestJet" argument, that may be true, but at least WestJet is Canadian. Flair, thus far, has mostly been subsidized by 777 partners, a US entity. They managed to convive the CTA that they no longer need 777 partners money. But until now, it's been US money funding this company.

Now is the busy travel season. Flair can survive on forward bookings and show a positive cash flow. Once September rolls around, that positive cash flow will start to disappear, and Flair can no longer rely on 777 partners for cash. Let's see if they're able to convince a Canadian bank or investment firm to back them then, with their amazing strategy of running after low hanging fruit. I'll have the popcorn out. But you can go ahead and book your $99 fare to Tucson if it pleases you.

JakeLRS Jun 14, 2022 9:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9649531)
Now is the busy travel season. Flair can survive on forward bookings and show a positive cash flow. Once September rolls around, that positive cash flow will start to disappear, and Flair can no longer rely on 777 partners for cash. Let's see if they're able to convince a Canadian bank or investment firm to back them then, with their amazing strategy of running after low hanging fruit. I'll have the popcorn out. But you can go ahead and book your $99 fare to Tucson if it pleases you.

Ahh, I didn't know I was on the Flair Airlines forum on AvCanada...

Flair has been doubted ever since it debuted in June 2016 as "newleaf". Year after year, they've managed to pull the right strings and be able to stay afloat. Yes, there have been some lacklustre close calls, such as the KFAero dispute in 2018, the failed United States launch in the winter of 2018/2019, the continued usage of ancient 737-400s, and the list goes on. But guess what? They are still here.

I firmly believe they are going to continue to stay in the Canadian skies for years to come. Flair finally has brand awareness (something they SEVERELY lacked for several years), more effective cash flow strategies, a smart executive and financial team with years of experience, and a positive work environment that has been praised by employees.

I look forward to seeing your exact same argument in the winter, and again next summer when Flair is the shining star in the Canadian skies.

hehehe Jun 15, 2022 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9649717)
Ahh, I didn't know I was on the Flair Airlines forum on AvCanada...

Flair has been doubted ever since it debuted in June 2016 as "newleaf". Year after year, they've managed to pull the right strings and be able to stay afloat. Yes, there have been some lacklustre close calls, such as the KFAero dispute in 2018, the failed United States launch in the winter of 2018/2019, the continued usage of ancient 737-400s, and the list goes on. But guess what? They are still here.

I firmly believe they are going to continue to stay in the Canadian skies for years to come. Flair finally has brand awareness (something they SEVERELY lacked for several years), more effective cash flow strategies, a smart executive and financial team with years of experience, and a positive work environment that has been praised by employees.

I look forward to seeing your exact same argument in the winter, and again next summer when Flair is the shining star in the Canadian skies.


I don't completely disagree with you and I know Flair is receiving subsidies but some of their routes really don't seem realistic. And I wouldn't completely discount the experiences of pilots working for Flair too, their say matters as well.

whatnext Jun 15, 2022 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9649717)
...I look forward to seeing your exact same argument in the winter, and again next summer when Flair is the shining star in the Canadian skies.

:lmao::lmao:

SteelTown Jun 15, 2022 5:54 PM

Globe and Mail on Hamilton Airport

Quote:

Small airports such as Hamilton International see strong rebound, smooth performance as major hubs beleaguered by delays

For the past five years, Jim Ross has chosen to fly out of Hamilton International Airport instead of Toronto’s Pearson International whenever possible. But now that pent-up travel demand and staffing shortages at Pearson have led to long lines, flight delays and cancellations, he avoids the Toronto airport at all costs.

“I’ve heard people are showing up three, four hours early and worrying whether or not they’re going to make it onto the plane,” at Pearson, said Mr. Ross, who travels often for work.

“For me, in Hamilton, it was less than 10 minutes from getting in the line to check in and getting through security.”

Passengers travelling through Toronto Pearson, Canada’s busiest airport, face long waits to get through understaffed security checkpoints and customs screening. Passengers are often held on board aircraft because arrival terminal halls are overcrowded.

“Everywhere you go now people are talking about how you avoid Pearson,” said Jan De Silva, president of Toronto Region Board of Trade.

Dina Carlucci, Hamilton airport’s director of business development and customer experience, says woes at major Canadian airports are helping to shine a spotlight on smaller airports as an alternative.

Hamilton is already serving 90 per cent of the passengers it did in 2019, before the COVID-19 pandemic – a level it didn’t expect to reach until 2023 or 2024, and which Ms. Carlucci said is higher than other hubs.

.....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...trong-rebound/

JakeLRS Jun 15, 2022 6:40 PM

Swoop's first MAX aircraft will begin service in coming weeks.

The earliest flight I can see is YEG-YHM on July 1st. Aircraft is currently parked in Toronto.

Dominion301 Jun 16, 2022 2:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9650678)
Swoop's first MAX aircraft will begin service in coming weeks.

The earliest flight I can see is YEG-YHM on July 1st. Aircraft is currently parked in Toronto.

I don't know if this is correct, but it seems to have already entered service: https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220606-wo7m8jun22

thenoflyzone Jun 16, 2022 2:07 AM

Seems BA is having trouble keeping BA85 LHR-YVR (A380) anywhere near on time in the last 2 weeks (2 to 6 hour delays almost every day). Must be A380 related, as YUL and YYZ aren't seeing the same delays, and they have flights leaving LHR roughly at the same time.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba85

YUL

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba95

YYZ

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba99
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ba93

hehehe Jun 16, 2022 2:15 AM

Canadian crew says they were jailed after reporting suspected contraband on Dominican Republic flight (Pivot airlines)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...blic-1.6490064
Wow what a turn of events...also really sad.

hehehe Jun 16, 2022 4:24 PM

https://calgaryherald.com/business/w...an-for-airline
Looks like WS will focus even more in the west, wow.

peytol Jun 16, 2022 4:37 PM

No more 787s, sounds like stopping at 7 and moving them all to yyc.

LO 044 Jun 16, 2022 4:41 PM

I posted this on the YYC forum. This has me confused. Where will all these 737 Max's fly to if they're not feeding the 787's? Will the 737 Max's go to Sunwing and/or Swoop? Will WS look at removing the NG's for the Max's? Or push the NG's to Sunwing? How many planes are parked, is it just the 600's? I thought WS wanted to be an international airline. Without adding destinations with 787's that ain't going to happen unless they want to add a hub in Halifax.

If they do decide to move the 787's to YYC then AC might as well start the parade at YYZ lol. Even so it seems with this "new vision", AC will have very little competition. WS has lost its lustre at YEG and besides YVR the population is thin in Western Canada relative to the East. WestJet can't seem to decide what it is or what it will be. Maybe their nickname on the side of the plane should be downgraded to "The Other Airline" or "The Other Guys". They can put a picture of Will Ferrell on one of the tails lol.

SFUVancouver Jun 16, 2022 4:47 PM

I suspect that they will be moving to divest themselves of the Q400s as soon as possible, and additional 737s will help them accomplish this through fleet rebalancing. If they follow-on with a new order of small narrow-bodies (i.e. A220-100s and maybe -300s), they would have a low-operating cost, short runway-capable, passenger-friendly, lower-capacity, but long-legged replacement for the Q400 fleet and the oldest 737s (i.e. any -600 or -700 NGs that are still rattling around). Or, who knows, they might buy ATRs to stay with turbo-prop but shift away from a functionally dead line of aircraft?

When they want to start growing the 787 fleet again, there's going to be no shortage of tails available for lease or purchase. Plus, there's going to be a lot of stranded assets on airline books in the coming years if a big 'ol recession hits while gas stays high, so if WestJet can swing it, there will be deals aplenty.

hehehe Jun 16, 2022 4:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver (Post 9651650)
I suspect that they will be moving to divest themselves of the Q400s as soon as possible and the additional 737s will help them accomplish this, especially if they follow-on with a new order of smaller narrowbodies (i.e. A220-100s) to have a low-operating cost, long-legged replacement for the Q400 fleet. Or, who knows, they might buy ATRs to stay with turbo-prop but shift away from a functionally dead line of aircraft.

I highly doubt they're going to get rid of the Q400. It provides a lot of feed and was wildly successful for them.

hehehe Jun 16, 2022 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peytol (Post 9651636)
No more 787s, sounds like stopping at 7 and moving them all to yyc.

Moving them all to YYC, as in even YYZ-LGW/BCN and YVR-LGW will be discontinued?

hollywoodcory Jun 16, 2022 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peytol (Post 9651636)
No more 787s, sounds like stopping at 7 and moving them all to yyc.

Aren't they already all based at YYC?

And its kind of odd they'll only take 1 more, even though there's 3 of them in storage. Why not just take the initial 10 they ordered.

hehehe Jun 16, 2022 5:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9651657)
Aren't they already all based at YYC?

And its kind of odd they'll only take 1 more, even though there's 3 of them in storage. Why not just take the initial 10 they ordered.

They might be. I thought the exact same thing about the 787's. It's not like the 787's are a catastrophic failure for them.

Denscity Jun 16, 2022 5:57 PM

Just noticed Vancouver to Brisbane is returning to Air Canada. Was hoping Melbourne but Gold Coast is awesome.

whatnext Jun 16, 2022 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9651641)
I posted this on the YYC forum. This has me confused. Where will all these 737 Max's fly to if they're not feeding the 787's? Will the 737 Max's go to Sunwing and/or Swoop? Will WS look at removing the NG's for the Max's? Or push the NG's to Sunwing? How many planes are parked, is it just the 600's? I thought WS wanted to be an international airline. Without adding destinations with 787's that ain't going to happen unless they want to add a hub in Halifax.

If they do decide to move the 787's to YYC then AC might as well start the parade at YYZ lol. Even so it seems with this "new vision", AC will have very little competition. WS has lost its lustre at YEG and besides YVR the population is thin in Western Canada relative to the East. WestJet can't seem to decide what it is or what it will be. Maybe their nickname on the side of the plane should be downgraded to "The Other Airline" or "The Other Guys". They can put a picture of Will Ferrell on one of the tails lol.

Sounds like someone at WS or Onex is essentially trying to unwind a lot of the expansion that positioned them as Canadian Airlines II.

casper Jun 16, 2022 6:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver (Post 9651650)
I suspect that they will be moving to divest themselves of the Q400s as soon as possible, and additional 737s will help them accomplish this through fleet rebalancing. If they follow-on with a new order of small narrow-bodies (i.e. A220-100s and maybe -300s), they would have a low-operating cost, short runway-capable, passenger-friendly, lower-capacity, but long-legged replacement for the Q400 fleet and the oldest 737s (i.e. any -600 or -700 NGs that are still rattling around). Or, who knows, they might buy ATRs to stay with turbo-prop but shift away from a functionally dead line of aircraft?

When they want to start growing the 787 fleet again, there's going to be no shortage of tails available for lease or purchase. Plus, there's going to be a lot of stranded assets on airline books in the coming years if a big 'ol recession hits while gas stays high, so if WestJet can swing it, there will be deals aplenty.

In the press release they talk about right-size the Q400 fleet. That is usual corporate lingo for reduce but not eliminate. My guess is they will eliminate Q400 flying at YYZ. A smaller fleet of Q400 will operate from YYC and YVR. Perhaps move the Q400 to Pacific Costal.

I agree they need the A220. I could see them pickup more flying into Delta hub airports in the US, especially with an A220.

Boeing is not delivering 787 aircraft. They are basically still trying to convince the FAA they know how to build aircraft. Perhaps WestJet was able to get out of the last three deliveries.

What I still find odd is how WestJet treats swoop. It makes no sense to have it pretend to be so standalone. Having interline and codeshare between Swoop and WestJet makes sense.

Sunwing does have a sizable presence in YYZ and YUL. They will likely feed those flights.


All times are GMT. The time now is 4:16 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.