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-   -   NEW YORK | 111 W 57th St | 1,428 FT | 85 FLOORS (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198228)

NYguy Jul 29, 2013 8:19 PM

http://commercialobserver.com/2013/0...er-131-m-sale/

Steinway Hall’s Final Movement Begins Following $131 M. Sale


http://nyocommercialobserver.files.w...pg?w=383&h=255

Billy Joel sits at a 'John Lennon' piano at Steinway Hall (Credit: Associated Press)



By Al Barbarino
July 29, 2013


Quote:

Earlier this year Steinway Musical Instruments announced that its grand pianos would soon play their final notes at the legendary Steinway Hall after years of actively seeking a buyer pulled in a $46 million bid. JDS Development Group and its partners in the transaction have now paid $131.5 million for the land underneath it, city records posted this weekend show, paving the way for a condominium tower adjacent to the building that will use air rights from the hall.

Steinway said in March that it would remain in the building for at least 14 rent-free months after closing the deal, with an option to rent for an additional four months, but that the legendary hall would then move on to a new space.

“Over the next year or so, we will be preparing for the creation of a 21st century Steinway Hall in Manhattan, the firm’s chairman and CEO, Michael Sweeney, said at the time. “Our Concert & Artist division is working on designs for a space that meets the needs of today’s artists and customers just as the Steinway family conceived our current location nearly 100 years ago.” Mr. Sweeney hinted at the time that the company, which still makes pianos in Astoria, Queens, where it has done so for more than century, will more than likely settle on a Downtown retail location.

Eidolon Jul 29, 2013 9:02 PM

^^^
Quote:

Mr. Sweeney hinted at the time that the company, which still makes pianos in Astoria, Queens, where it has done so for more than century, will more than likely settle on a Downtown retail location.
So, what are the odds of them moving into the WTC Mall or Brookfield Place?

babybackribs2314 Jul 29, 2013 11:29 PM

I highly doubt Steinway will choose a modern space; renovated, probably, but given their heritage and tradition I would bet on a pre-war lease.

chris08876 Jul 30, 2013 12:53 AM

Yea they would want to keep that posh, luxurious look and the pre-wars offer that type of style.

NYguy Jul 30, 2013 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon (Post 6214388)
^^^

So, what are the odds of them moving into the WTC Mall or Brookfield Place?

I doubt they would move to something like the WTC space. It would probably be somewhere on Broadway, north of Canal Street.

Eidolon Jul 31, 2013 4:44 PM

The 30-Minute Interview: Michael Stern
By VIVIAN MARINO
Published: July 30, 2013

Quote:

Q. What’s the status of the Steinway Hall development, where a condo and hotel are planned?

A. We just closed on the Steinway building on 57th Street. We had owned the adjacent lot for about two years and we’re really excited about the assemblage that we put together there. We are just beginning our design process for that building; we have not yet selected an architect.

Steinway Hall is a beautiful landmark and we’re incredibly respectful of that and we’re going to design a building that complements the landmark — very reminiscent of the skyscrapers built in the ’20s and ’30s.

Can't wait to see what they come up with!
:ohyeah

Crawford Jul 31, 2013 4:57 PM

So we will likely not see something reminiscent of the first design. Something more classicly New York, I would imagine.

I'm thinking a prominent spire here. Hopefully this is a world class design, and even better if it went above 1,000 ft.

I think this would be a good plan. The spire/classic NYC design will distinguish 107 W. 57 from its more contemporary competitors, and you need to be above 1,000 ft. to stand out on 57th Street.

babybackribs2314 Jul 31, 2013 5:22 PM

Agree with Crawford; wonder if they take a cue from the Viceroy Hotel at 120 W. 57th for the design. That is far shorter but also classic New York.

Crazy how 1,000 feet is now necessary for views on 57th Street.

chris08876 Jul 31, 2013 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babybackribs2314 (Post 6216751)
Agree with Crawford; wonder if they take a cue from the Viceroy Hotel at 120 W. 57th for the design. That is far shorter but also classic New York.

Crazy how 1,000 feet is now necessary for views on 57th Street.

a 1,000 feet or more is necessary to even be really noticed. The whole area is becoming so dense with height that it will become the minimum.

UTEPman Jul 31, 2013 10:45 PM

Well that sux. I really liked the idea of what this tower would become. I thought it would look particularly interesting at night with the thousands of LED ports in the concrete for lighting effects.

Sounds like the design will change, and the possibility of the exciting lighting scheme....

JayPro Aug 1, 2013 1:29 AM

@UTEPMan;

::channelling Quickdraw McGraw::
"Now hooooooold on thar........."

Let's not quite jump the gun and assume that a redesign with a classic NYC twist won't look nice with LED's. I give you Lady ESB post-refurbs as an example of how 1929-1939 Gotham and cutting edge illumination work together.

If they go the Art Deco route with this tower *with LED* (and I don't see why they *can't*) expect a dazzling edifice.

NYguy Aug 1, 2013 2:38 AM

Quote:

We are just beginning our design process for that building; we have not yet selected an architect.

Steinway Hall is a beautiful landmark and we’re incredibly respectful of that and we’re going to design a building that complements the landmark — very reminiscent of the skyscrapers built in the ’20s and ’30s.

I wonder who will ultimately design this one. One thing seems certain, it will be a "New York" tower. At its intended height, it will be in the realm of One57 and the Tower Verre. Together with 45 E. 60th, we are beginning to see more classic skyscraper designs mixed in with the newer takes on the classics (One57, Tower Verre). Who says you can't have it all?

scalziand Aug 1, 2013 3:19 AM

Sounds like Robert Stern would be a perfect fit for this tower.

Onn Aug 1, 2013 4:00 AM

Certainly Tower Verre is the best example of a classic tower gone modern as of late. But as to who would design this one I don't know.

Roadcruiser1 Aug 1, 2013 7:38 AM

The new design will probably end up looking a lot like 99 Church Street and have roughly the same height too!!!!!!!!!!:yes:

Perklol Aug 1, 2013 8:05 AM

Shame. The design from the rendering looked really good.

Onn Aug 1, 2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eveningsong (Post 6217703)
Shame. The design from the rendering looked really good.

I agree, that would be rather disappointing if they didn't build something along that line.

Hudson11 Aug 1, 2013 2:18 PM

Stern eh? well crap he might end up being confused with Robert AM Stern with a design like that lol

NYguy Aug 1, 2013 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1 (Post 6217687)
The new design will probably end up looking a lot like 99 Church Street and have roughly the same height too!!!!!!!!!!:yes:

I hope we get a classic spire or crown of some sort to go with this one. A classic but new take on the skylines of Central Park, maybe something even like the Sherry?


http://www.robertcaplin.com/wp-conte...15115-copy.jpg
http://www.robertcaplin.com/2012/09/...ell-of-a-view/


http://www.robertcaplin.com/wp-conte...therland02.jpg



View more gorgeous photos of that one here, 3 pages...
http://rcaplin.photoshelter.com/gall...000cRnZNwrff.M



And of course, this would be great...

http://www.sherrynetherland.com/var/...rk-in-Fall.jpg
http://www.sherrynetherland.com/

UTEPman Aug 1, 2013 10:08 PM

Let the past be the past. You can't duplicate buildings that were done in the 30's, and even if you could they wouldn't have the same character. Some can argue that TV does this, but TV is a different animal altogether. There is nothing like it....old or new.

The original rendering was very unique and upscale looking. NY has a ridiculous amount of buildings that represent the various stages in its evolution. I think it's time that ya'll build towers that represent cutting edge styles of today. This country needs more bold design in its towers, and NY is the only city with the economy to do that. So come on, let's see something that we haven't seen before. We need something new and refreshing.

JMO though....

NYguy Aug 1, 2013 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6218545)
Let the past be the past. You can't duplicate buildings that were done in the 30's, and even if you could they wouldn't have the same character. Some can argue that TV does this, but TV is a different animal altogether. There is nothing like it....old or new.

I agree that the past is the past, and you can't bring it back. However, that doesn't mean you can't have modern buildings with classic design elements. I think 15 Central Park West is an example of a building that looks like something from another era, but with all of the modern amenities and more you could ask for. But I bet if you asked someone if they preferred a more modern design element, like the spire of the BofA to the spire of the Chrysler, I think Chrysler wins hands down.

Manhattan has a number of buildings that proves you can have the best of both worlds, and these new additions such as 30 Park and 45 E. 60th will just continues that. We'll still have the glass towers like One57, the Tower Verre, all of the Hudson Yards and WTC giants. But there is also a distinctly New York element about buildings like the Sherry Netherland. And the bottom line is, whatever sells. Money talks, and there are people who flock to such buildings because they offer the best of both. And they are as modern as anything else going up, not just some old building being retrofitted as best it can to accommodate a new reality.

Crawford Aug 2, 2013 12:43 AM

In an article where they interview the developer of this tower, the NY Times reports this building (107 W.57) as "a 1,000 ft. condo".

So it looks like the thread title can be revised to 1,000 ft. I like where this is going.:)

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/re...e-eyesore.html

Also, this developer looks like he's going to give even Extell a run for their money. He plans twin towers on the East Side, and may eventually build seven big towers on the East Side. Holy crap.

JayPro Aug 2, 2013 1:10 AM

How many 20's-30's era spired/crowned buildings are there in NYC under 350' and I wished to high heaven were twice as tall?
They ought to cull from the best examples in the city and combine the best elements of what they choose into this tower.***
Od course, there's no reason why you can't have a killer pinnacle with a dynamic LED scheme. As they'll inevitably choose to make setbacks, why not place lit beacons on the corners of each with LED's, too?
If enough attention is paid to how these revered gems of the 20's and 30's were thought out, the first prelim render alone will be a treat.
The design process will be worth kicking back and watching unfurl, albeit slowly.
***At the end of the day, if you will, the first official public release render should be different from anything else in the City. It shouldn't look like a busy hodgepodge of ideas somehow integrated with one another in a half-assed, yet good-enough sort of way.

NYguy Aug 2, 2013 5:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crawford (Post 6218735)
In an article where they interview the developer of this tower, the NY Times reports this building (107 W.57) as "a 1,000 ft. condo".

So it looks like the thread title can be revised to 1,000 ft. I like where this is going.:)

I just noticed that. But it could also be a reference to a tower of "about" 1,000 ft. We know it'll be above 900, but they've also said it wouldn't be taller than One57. But that's old news, it could well have surpassed One57 in height or equaled it. Either way, I don't want to go with that 1,000 ft just yet.

Stern is becoming another Gary Barnett...
http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...-walker-tower/



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/04/re...pagewanted=all

Quote:

A Long Island native who did not graduate from college, Mr. Stern, 34, is often quoted in the press. He is a relative newcomer, having embarked on his New York City real estate career in 2004 after a stint with a developer in Florida.

It wasn’t until 2011, with the start of marketing of Walker Tower, a high-end condominium in Chelsea, that he broke into the mainstream. But he has become one of the city’s most prolific developers, racking up high-profile projects including the 1,000-foot-tall condominium he is building with Property Markets Group at the former Steinway Musical Instruments building on West 57th Street.


Swede Aug 2, 2013 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UTEPman (Post 6218545)
Let the past be the past. You can't duplicate buildings that were done in the 30's, and even if you could they wouldn't have the same character

The elements in the pictures are just 20th century designs copying medieval design elements and styles. Works great IMO.

hunser Aug 2, 2013 1:08 PM

Presenting you the Skyscraper Wars:

Stern vs Barnett vs Macklowe vs Silverstein ... who will win?

Crawford Aug 2, 2013 1:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunser (Post 6219211)
Presenting you the Skyscraper Wars:

Stern vs Barnett vs Macklowe vs Silverstein ... who will win?

I hope Sheldon Solow enters the skyscraper wars too, and soon.

Solow owns that huge lot on 57th Street between 5th and 6th. That's probably the best development site in NYC.

NYguy Aug 7, 2013 11:52 PM

Maybe I'm just tired, and not reading this correctly. But it looks like it could be 1,200 ft with 74 floors from this latest permit. Also looks like SHoP is involved...


http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/Jo...ssdocnumber=01

Quote:

FILING FOR ENLARGEMENT OF EXISTING STRUCTURE AS SHOWN ON DRAWINGS FILED HEREWITH

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/151717523/original.jpg

Eidolon Aug 8, 2013 12:02 AM

^^^
This is, what, the 24th or 25th supertall for New york?
57th Street! Go big or go extinct!
:cheers:

I wish Tower Verre could still get it's old height back though.

NYguy Aug 8, 2013 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon (Post 6224618)
^^^
This is, what, the 24th or 25th supertall for New york?
I wish Tower Verre could still get it's old height back though.

At this moment, I don't even know the exact number of supertall proposals (my head hurts).

But I wonder how they stretch this to 1,200 ft, how thin will it be. And is it really being designed by SHoP? I thought it would be something more traditional, but all questions to be answered.

Eidolon Aug 8, 2013 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYguy (Post 6224628)
But I wonder how they stretch this to 1,200 ft, how thin will it be. And is it really being designed by SHoP? I thought it would be something more traditional, but all questions to be answered.

Yeah, this is going to be one skinny tower and I think it might even put 432 Park avenue to shame. I don't think that this is being designed by ShoP even though their name is there, buzz at other forums suggests that their tower will be somewhere Downtown.

NYguy Aug 8, 2013 12:27 AM

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JB...allbin=1023728


Looks like there will be one unit per floor (17-71) and floors 72-74 will be mechanical. The lower floors will have 2 units (7-16), and the first 6 floors will be retail.

miesian Aug 8, 2013 12:36 AM

Future conversation: "Darling, what's that building we're looking down on?"---"Dear, I believe that's called One 57!" :P

Crawford Aug 8, 2013 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon (Post 6224639)
I don't think that this is being designed by ShoP even though their name is there, buzz at other forums suggests that their tower will be somewhere Downtown.

SHOP does have a rumored supertall downtown, but that's a separate project, by a separate developer. I don't know the location, but the rumor was somewhere on the east side of Lower Manhattan.

This building permit for 107 W57 also appears to show SHOP as architect. SHOP has a ton of projects in development all over the city.

McSky Aug 8, 2013 1:24 AM

...

sbarn Aug 8, 2013 1:31 AM

:cheers:

JACKinBeantown Aug 8, 2013 1:31 AM

I'd love to see a 1,200 foot art deco building go in there. The Economist building (Steinway Hall) is an earlier art deco style, more art nouveau, but an example I can think of where they tried to build something new in an art deco style at that height was a proposal in Houston in the early 80's... Bank of the Southwest.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=148875

It never happened, but at least it shows that an old style with new design can be very beautiful and functional.

babybackribs2314 Aug 8, 2013 1:45 AM

This has 300K sf of air rights; 432 Park has 500K sf for perspective. This will be exceedingly, crazily thin.

Onn Aug 8, 2013 2:23 AM

1,200 feet, I was not expecting this! Just when you think things can't get any crazier they get crazier. One 57 is going to have to put a spire on quick! :runaway:

jd3189 Aug 8, 2013 2:29 AM

I'm being led to believe that New York will have the most supertalls of any city on Earth. The Asian cities may take hold of having great height, but Manhattan is going to be a taller island of buildings.

reencharles Aug 8, 2013 2:42 AM

Wooww... What great news. I was excited with the news of having 1000 FT, but now with 1200 FT? Excellent.

Hahaha... The good thing is that this company is not Extell, then we should see the render soon.

It would be nice if someone could make the mass model of this tower together with others proposals in 57 street - view of the park.

chris08876 Aug 8, 2013 3:52 AM

Just woke up from a nap, feeling good, and I just found out about this. :cheers:

scalziand Aug 8, 2013 3:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reencharles (Post 6224835)
It would be nice if someone could make the mass model of this tower together with others proposals in 57 street - view of the park.

I don't have 225w57 and its not from the park, buuuuut....

http://imageshack.us/a/img541/3484/tw1z.jpg

This is going to be gobsmackingly skinny at this height, with each floor only about 4000 square feet. I mean, a 40-45 foot wide building 1200' feet tall? That's a slenderness ratio of 27-30. Ridiculous.

Downburst Aug 8, 2013 3:59 AM

Amazing news! Remember when this was proposed at 679 feet? To think it's been almost doubled in height!

chris08876 Aug 8, 2013 6:11 AM

These skinny heights are going to become the new norm. Outside of the hudson yards, with such small lot sizes, we will see more of these.

Fardeb Aug 8, 2013 6:27 AM

Poor One57, the runt of the litter ...

This thing is going to be crazy skinny.

JayPro Aug 8, 2013 6:45 AM

Once again I am greeted with a surprise that can only happen on this site.
I mean, I'm tempted to say ph*ck the West SIde...but almost.
Imagine, then, if you will, an east-to-west cutting swath of ridiculously tall and slander monoliths from 225 West 57th to One Vandy and who knows what else with Grand Central/MidTown East?
A 1000'+ at this address will ensure this happening, given also the aforementioned re-zoning green light.

However (FWIW IMHO; so please don't throw things at me :) )......
Reading up on all this apparent good news, I can hear my inner skeptic repeating "If it's too good to be true, it usually is." with a loud, agitated voice. I fear that all this "WooHoo! Another K-footer for the Apple!" giddiness is that very same nugget of wisdom paraphrased in various forms in the NYC Supertall Proposals threads here.
And it makes me wonder. I *still* need convincing that this painfully lead-ass slow economic recovery will hold out just long enough to bring these happy tidings to fruition. Yeah, it's NYC and all; but it takes little more than the right bubble(s) to pop, if you catch my drift.
I'm done speculating (apropos Wall $treet pun) lest I jinx things. ;)

NYguy Aug 8, 2013 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayPro (Post 6225020)
I fear that all this "WooHoo! Another K-footer for the Apple!" giddiness is that very same nugget of wisdom paraphrased in various forms in the NYC Supertall Proposals threads here.
And it makes me wonder. I *still* need convincing that this painfully lead-ass slow economic recovery will hold out just long enough to bring these happy tidings to fruition.

These residential towers are pretty much towers that are moving forward now, and are being built and marketed for the super-wealthy. This tower may be tall, but it really isn't adding a lot of additional units to the Manhattan market. As long as buildings like One57 and 56 Leonard continue to sell, you'll see more proposals like this.

One thing about this particular cluster around Central Park is that it is rare earth (and air). Sure it's New York, but these towers aren't exactly going up in the south Bronx.

Also, we haven't really had a lot of pushback Nimbyism yet because these towers are being built as-of-right. With the exception of the Tower Verre, there has been no approvals process. Eventually though, once these towers start topping out over Central Park, the people who always complain about that will start up again.

hunser Aug 8, 2013 1:22 PM

Wow, this is totally unexpected. 1000 footers are becoming the norm @57th.

New York is going crazy.

hunser Aug 8, 2013 1:50 PM

Seing Torre Verre being built at only 1050 feet still makes me angry. :hell:
Verre will be barely visible amongst those future giants. :(


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