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Vicelord John Apr 27, 2010 3:32 PM

I don't think these people fully understand the economic repercussions this "law" will have, especially since we are already in a recession.

Oh well, I am going to start looking into other industries. Mine is about to be fucked.

HX_Guy Apr 27, 2010 4:14 PM

It sucks sitting here and seeing news story after news story about how a convention got cancelled or how San Francisco is boycotting all Arizona businesses and tom what...to get Juan out of the kitchen and back to Mexico? They keep trying to feed us that this is about keeping us safe because I am sure that the people smugglers and kidnappers are really concerned about their immigration status, like they don't know they are already breaking much bigger laws.

I agree that we do need to do something about the number of illegal immigrants coming in, and yes, this probably is a deterrent, but what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to now ask my landscapers who are Hispanic to see their papers? What about my white pool guy? Is he exempt or should I ask him too? After all , I understand that if you employee an illegal, you get busted too,and well, I'm employing them right?

Leo the Dog Apr 27, 2010 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 4814569)
I don't think these people fully understand the economic repercussions this "law" will have, especially since we are already in a recession.

Oh well, I am going to start looking into other industries. Mine is about to be fucked.

The sky isn't falling...yet. To date only one group has cancelled at the Camelback Inn and they were immigration lawyers (no real surprise there). Most groups will make their decision based off of what's best for their business and won't partake in politics. If they can get a great group rate in AZ vs. CA guess where they're going to book. I don't think we're going to lose too many groups to Denver during Jan-April period.

Vicelord John Apr 27, 2010 4:31 PM

I dunno. I am asked on a daily basis by east coast tourists if everyone in arizona has a gun.

azliam Apr 27, 2010 5:46 PM

I sure wish Bloomberg would shut his pie hole. He's commenting about boycotting AZ, yet he should be more concerned about his own city's reputation and how its residents take care of their own - (slain homeless man left to die on NY street) - http://www.timesnewsline.com/news/Th...et-1272379646/

Don B. Apr 27, 2010 8:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil Empire (Post 4814265)
X2. Don, post it up...unless you can't anymore :haha:

Oh no, they just paid for their "past use" of the photo. I still retain all rights to it and can continue to sell it for the foreseeable future. Here it is:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...sunsetcopy.jpg

:D

--don

Vicelord John Apr 27, 2010 9:08 PM

damn... if only it were exposed a bit more. Already a great shot but could be phenomenal.

I know you like to underexpose a bit though.

HooverDam Apr 27, 2010 9:31 PM

Don you'll have to redo one similar to that once the Court tower is finished, it would be an interesting contrast to see.

mwadswor Apr 27, 2010 9:42 PM

Wow, gorgeous shot. I haven't seen that one before.

Don B. Apr 27, 2010 10:30 PM

^ Thanks, all. :)

I think slight underexposure adds more "character" to the image. I also took it in August 2004 with a 6.3 megapixel entry-level dSLR when I didn't know as much as I do now about taking photos. That was a once or twice a year sunset, though.

The image was stolen by Skyy Vodka ad agency in the summer of 2009 and used to advertise a "Skyy Infusions Launch Party" at the Devil's Martini Ranch in Scottsdale. I busted them when I was "invited" to be friends with Skyy Vodka on Myspace (of all places) and found my image there with Skyy's verbiage all over it (I can share what they did when I get home; it's not uploaded to my site yet). Needless to say, I was pissed, primarily because I could have really used the licensing fees for the image while I was looking for legal work after finishing law school in May.

So, I wrote them a nice little cease and desist letter, and then followed that up with a demand letter. It took me nine months but it was sweet nonetheless.

Do note something I learned in this process:

Unless you specifically copyright your photos, you can only claim actual damages in a suit over infringement. That will be tough to prove, especially if your income stream from said photos is not steady. Copyrighting your photos with the federal government entitles you to statutory (treble) damages, amongst other things. I will be doing so forthwith...and once I learn the process, I can share it with you.

--don

Evil Empire Apr 28, 2010 12:25 AM

That's crazy, I remember stumbling upon that picture on a Google Images search years and years ago.

Don B. Apr 28, 2010 6:32 AM

^ And I had Google take it down.

Someone had uploaded one of my aerial shots to Wikipedia last year. They declined my offer to simply give me credit for the photo and leave it up, so I had them take it down as well.

I get to decide when my photos are given to the world...not someone else on my behalf.

I don't really mind if someone takes a photo for a screenshot or just to look at on their hard drive - you know, personal use. But corporate entities get no pass from me.

--don

Evil Empire Apr 28, 2010 10:40 PM

That makes sense.

It's still on my old hard drive in the garage. Either way, it's an amazing photo :)

Leo the Dog Apr 28, 2010 11:01 PM

Does anybody on here sell their high resolution pics of Phx as a way to make a little extra cash?

PhxPavilion Apr 29, 2010 1:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 4815780)
^ And I had Google take it down.

Someone had uploaded one of my aerial shots to Wikipedia last year. They declined my offer to simply give me credit for the photo and leave it up, so I had them take it down as well.

I get to decide when my photos are given to the world...not someone else on my behalf.

I don't really mind if someone takes a photo for a screenshot or just to look at on their hard drive - you know, personal use. But corporate entities get no pass from me.

--don

You know, you could have edited the photo posted on Wikipedia to give you credit.

Don B. Apr 29, 2010 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 4816846)
Does anybody on here sell their high resolution pics of Phx as a way to make a little extra cash?

I do. It depends on what you want to use the photo for, in terms of prices. Desktop background? No charge...but you won't be getting the full res version of the image. In fact, I don't ever release my original full res images to any client. I edit the image in photoshop and sell them the edited image.

As for editing photos on Wikipedia, I don't know how to do that and wasn't inclined to learn. In addition, I believe, to leave the photo there, that you have to release it to the public domain, and this I am not willing to do as a general rule.

--don

Don B. Apr 29, 2010 5:52 PM

Was just on the 23rd floor of the Great American Tower meeting an attorney when we had to evacuate due to a fire alarm. Upon leaving the building, I saw no signs of smoke or fire, so I left.

--don

Vicelord John Apr 29, 2010 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 4818102)
Was just on the 23rd floor of the Great American Tower meeting an attorney when we had to evacuate due to a fire alarm. Upon leaving the building, I saw no signs of smoke or fire, so I left.

--don

OMG, really?!

Don B. Apr 29, 2010 8:31 PM

^ Hey, at least I didn't start my own thread about it. :D

There was a part of me hoping that there would be something worth photographing when I made it outside, as my camera was in the trunk of my car parked across the street, but I'm glad there was nothing to see. I did enjoy schlepping down 23 flights of stairs, although there was this one hot blond chick in five inch heels I was feeling sorry for. :)

--don

DowntownDweller Apr 29, 2010 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 4814640)
I dunno. I am asked on a daily basis by east coast tourists if everyone in arizona has a gun.

I'm fairly certain, I'm one of the few citizens who live down town who is actually armed. Nearly all of my neighbors are misguided liberals.

Vicelord John Apr 29, 2010 10:11 PM

I carry

HooverDam Apr 30, 2010 8:36 AM

Has anyone seen the Spike TV show "Players"? Its got former UCB people in it, and I guess it just got picked up for a few more episodes. I only mention it because it takes place in Phoenix. You can see whole episodes online, they show a stock skyline of Phoenix and the sports bar where it takes place has little Southwestern touches like saguaro neon lights. The shots are pretty recent that they use of Downtown, they have the Sheraton in them. You can see an episode here:
http://www.spike.com/full-episode/kristas-mom/36432

Though the episode I just started watching had a character say "Hey I just got a new condo downtown, by the water"...odd...maybe he means Tempe :P

Anyway, they don't shoot it here, its all shot in a studio in LA somewhere but its cool to see a show set here.

Leo the Dog Apr 30, 2010 2:41 PM

AZ economy
 
http://www.azcentral.com/business/ar...ecast0430.html

Quote:

New projections show severe job loss in Ariz.

State Commerce Dept. forecasting 50,400 positions will be lost this year

Betty Beard - Apr. 29, 2010 05:11 PM
The Arizona Republic

Arizona is expected to lose about 50,400 jobs this year and gain about 23,100 next year, the Arizona Department of Commerce said Thursday in its twice-a-year job forecast.

That is worse than the department projected in its last forecast in October when it said the state was likely to lose 17,300 jobs this year. In fact, Thursday's forecast is the third consecutive one in which job losses are projected to be worse than previously thought.


Department economist Aruna Murthy said the agency increased the number of job losses expected this year because last year's losses - about 189,000 or 7.3 percent compared with 2008 - were deeper than expected and problems such as credit tightness, high debt overhangs and reduced wealth still linger.

The latest forecast doesn't include the possible effects of a vote for or against Proposition 100, a 1 percent state sales-tax increase on the May 18 ballot, or of boycotts resulting from the state's controversial new immigration law.

Murthy said there was no way to guess the effects of those without hard data.

The Goldwater Institute estimates passage of Proposition 100 would cost the state about 14,400 private-sector jobs because it would reduce the consumer spending that supports retail jobs.

But the University of Arizona's Economic and Business Research Center says passage would save more than 13,000 jobs and preserve more than $442 million in federal matching funds. It says much of the estimated $918 million in increased revenues the state would receive would be spent on products and services provided by private companies.

The Commerce Department says the only sectors expected to gain jobs this year are educational and health services, with an expected increase of 2.7 percent, and leisure and hospitality, 0.3 percent.

Murthy said educational and health services will gain positions because private schools and colleges are seeing a big influx in students training or retraining for jobs and medical jobs will grow as the Baby Boomers age.

The leisure and hospitality sector, which includes hotels, resorts, restaurants, bars and movie theaters, is expected to add jobs because consumers will feel more like treating themselves as the economy improves, she said. Also, as the worldwide economy improves, international tourism may pick up.

Six sectors are expected to gain next year: manufacturing; natural resources and mining; trade (including retail), transportation and utilities; professional and business services (including temp jobs); educational and health services, and leisure and hospitality.

About half the job gains expected next year will be temporary or contracted employees. The department projects an increase of 12,400 of those posts.
"The leisure and hospitality sector, which includes hotels, resorts, restaurants, bars and movie theaters, is expected to add jobs....Also, as the worldwide economy improves, international tourism may pick up."

This is a huge assumption. If anything, the EU is worse off this year than last.

Vicelord John Apr 30, 2010 4:38 PM

maybe down by the water meant he is a los angeles resident who forgot he was taping a show?

Don B. Apr 30, 2010 4:45 PM

^ It also ignores the fallout from SB1070's passage in Arizona. I can pretty much assure you we will see fewer visitors to Arizona as a result.

You know, this is what happens when you build an economy around sprawl largely predicated on the construction of single family homes. Low taxes means generally a poor education system and the government here lacks the tools to compete with other wealthier states. I am starting to think that sprawl and high automobile usage results in a dehumanizing effect on some people, where they become more selfish and care less about their city as a result. Then they become more reactionary and vote to give up civil rights...

--don

NorthScottsdale Apr 30, 2010 5:03 PM

apparently there is another new show that takes place in the valley. "Sunset Daze"... a real housewives type of show except the cast is made up of seniors. Kinda cool to have a show based out of here, but not cool that all it is going to showcase is Surprise, endless subdivisions of senior citizen communities, the same stereotype that everyone already has of phoenix.

PHX31 Apr 30, 2010 5:58 PM

Don, please move. I really don't understand why people like you don't move. Just move to San Francisco where your life will so obviously be better.

Are you one of those people that incessantly complains about something, yet does nothing about it? Do people in real life even like you or is it just the veil of the computer/internet forum that allows you to be a person that seems fairly insufferable?

Leo the Dog Apr 30, 2010 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 4819714)
I am starting to think that sprawl and high automobile usage results in a dehumanizing effect on some people, where they become more selfish and care less about their city as a result.

Absolutely. It changes the behavior of the populace. This is why people are somewhat reluctant to go DT in Phx, because, god forbid, they may have to interact with others in an unfamiliar urban setting.

Leo the Dog Apr 30, 2010 6:06 PM

^ Not good.

DowntownDweller Apr 30, 2010 6:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 4819843)
Don, please move. I really don't understand why people like you don't move. Just move to San Francisco where your life will so obviously be better.

Are you one of those people that incessantly complains about something, yet does nothing about it? Do people in real life even like you or is it just the veil of the computer/internet forum that allows you to be a person that seems fairly insufferable?

Don is a repeat criminal who wants to be a lawyer. Who better to complain about enforcement of LAWS.

mwadswor Apr 30, 2010 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 4819843)
Don, please move. I really don't understand why people like you don't move. Just move to San Francisco where your life will so obviously be better.

I would typically agree. Don does seem to just have a loathing for Phoenix, and I don't understand why people like that stay and bitch about everything instead of finding a new city that will actually make them happy.

This is an odd post to call him out on though since he's pretty much right...

CANUC Apr 30, 2010 6:51 PM

Yep, I agree with Don this time and I usually roll my eye when I read one of his whaa posts. But he has a point here, this city and the suburb cities banked for decades on the construction industry, simply expecting more single family homes to sustain the economy. It was great while it lasted but eventually we were going to hit a wall and we did. I don’t think there are going to be very many proponents on this forum that favor sprawl, even though most of us probably live in these types of communities. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that we live in a city full of neighborhoods where no one seems to know each other, where people prefer their blocked in back yards than spending time in an urban core. Trust me I grew up here, it’s the “get off of my land” mentality, and to change that into a culture that embraces urbanization is going to take a long, long, long time.

DowntownDweller Apr 30, 2010 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CANUC (Post 4819947)
There’s nothing wrong with pointing out that we live in a city full of neighborhoods where no one seems to know each other, where people prefer their blocked in back yards than spending time in an urban core. Trust me I grew up here, it’s the “get off of my land” mentality, and to change that into a culture that embraces urbanization is going to take a long, long, long time.

Speak for yourself. I know and socialize with everybody in my neighborhood. We get together for neighborhood get togethers or just to let the kids play. Guess that's what its like living in Phoenix' original urban sprawl circa the late 1920s.

CANUC Apr 30, 2010 7:05 PM

Yeah, and your probably speaking for yourself as well as I bet you that you are in the minority. I too grew up in an older neighborhood where everyone new each other but as soon I purchased my first home that all changed. The reality is that those types of neighborhoods are rare. You have to agree that for the most part the metro area is dominated by new track housing which doesn't equate to established neighborhoods.

PHX31 Apr 30, 2010 7:56 PM

I dunno, my good friend lives, of all places, in Maricopa... the epitome of the horrid track sprawl neighborhood. But he and his neighbors are completely best of friends, they hang out, all the families watch each others' kids, etc. That area isn't for me, which is why I live in central phoenix. But, different strokes for different folks.

But as for Don, the grass is always greener on the other side. Rest assured, even the "urban utopian" cities have their own major problems. Hopefully when you get there those problems don't bother you as much.

Don B. Apr 30, 2010 9:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DowntownDweller (Post 4819884)
Don is a repeat criminal who wants to be a lawyer. Who better to complain about enforcement of LAWS.

A "repeat criminal?" Do tell...

By the way, your comment is the very definition of an "ad hominem attack." I won't bother educating you, though, since you think it is perfectly fine to give police more powers that surely will be abused...

--don

Don B. Apr 30, 2010 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 4819843)
Don, please move. I really don't understand why people like you don't move. Just move to San Francisco where your life will so obviously be better.

Are you one of those people that incessantly complains about something, yet does nothing about it? Do people in real life even like you or is it just the veil of the computer/internet forum that allows you to be a person that seems fairly insufferable?

Actually, I have many real life friends and the photos to prove it, not that I need to prove anything to you. Do you always go about speculating on things that you know nothing about? Or are you so sensitive about Phoenix that any comment, no matter how accurate it may or may not be, will get your panties into a wad?

As for moving? No, I'm talking to Jon Talton to try and get him to move back here...LOL. His latest article is almost comical, in that if you think I'm overly critical, he makes me look like one of the infamous San Antonio boosters on this forum from some years ago:

http://www.roguecolumnist.typepad.com/rogue_columnist/

--don

DowntownDweller Apr 30, 2010 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 4820212)
A "repeat criminal?" Do tell...

How much time have you spent in correctional facilities? How many times have you been in the back of a police cruiser in cuffs? I judge you by your actions, not your words.
Quote:

By the way, your comment is the very definition of an "ad hominem attack." I won't bother educating you, though, since you think it is perfectly fine to give police more powers that surely will be abused...

--don
The law is the law. You obviously don't want to follow laws. As far as abuse, that can be addressed if and when it happens. Mere fear of abuses does not a bad piece of legislation make. Illegal immigration is just that... ILLEGAL.

HooverDam Apr 30, 2010 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DowntownDweller (Post 4820301)
. Illegal immigration is just that... ILLEGAL.

So was throwing tea in Boston Harbor.

DowntownDweller Apr 30, 2010 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 4820362)
So was throwing tea in Boston Harbor.

So you are saying that a good things can come from a bunch of rich, white, slave owning males not wanting to pay taxes? ;)

PHX NATIVE 929 Apr 30, 2010 11:17 PM

So... we'd all be better off paying more attention to Talton? A deranged former ambulance driver with zero business experience with a special knack for snarky writing, a clear grudge against Christianity, and the ability to quickly and unjustifiably pull the race card? That bozo?

The guy is a bitter blowhard, a one-trick-pony (Phoenix bashing). He needs to remove the enormous chip from his shoulder and quit being a failure at life. The sooner he and others stop relying on government to solve their problems and instead figure it out for themselves, the better off we'll all be. Just because Talton couldn't hack it here, doesn't mean we all can't.

DowntownDweller Apr 30, 2010 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820387)
So... we'd all be better off paying more attention to Talton? A deranged former ambulance driver with zero business experience with a special knack for snarky writing, a clear grudge against Christianity, and the ability to quickly and unjustifiably pull the race card? That bozo?

The guy is a bitter blowhard, a one-trick-pony (Phoenix bashing). He needs to remove the enormous chip from his shoulder and quit being a failure at life. The sooner he and others stop relying on government to solve their problems and instead figure it out for themselves, the better off we'll all be. Just because Talton couldn't hack it here, doesn't mean we all can't.

As much as it pains me to say this, his contribution to Phoenix Noir was the only good part of such a disappointment of a book. Now, if only he had finished that short story.

PHX NATIVE 929 Apr 30, 2010 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 4820362)
So was throwing tea in Boston Harbor.

Whose law? The Brits? You'd be hard-pressed to find a reasonable individual to support taxation without representation, which is precisely what sparked the "Tea Party" among the colonists.

How the Tea Party compares to illegal immigration, I have no idea. There are legal channels to obtain citizenship and all of the benefits (including representation) that come with it in this nation. We are not a land of lawlessness and chaos, which I would presume is one of the many reasons our country proves so attractive to outsiders.

When someone wishes to move to another country, do you expect the person to adapt to the country or the country to adapt to the person?

As much as Democrats would like to court illegals, shower them with entitlements, and hand them citizenship to instantly provide them 12 million more voters, I don't believe this sort of manipulation to be healthy for our future.

HooverDam May 1, 2010 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820429)
Whose law? The Brits?

Well the Americans were British citizens at that time, so yes the were subject to the British crowns laws.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820429)
You'd be hard-pressed to find a reasonable individual to support taxation without representation, which is precisely what sparked the "Tea Party" among the colonists.

That may be true now, but wasn't then. Which is why taxing colonist without representing them was so widespread throughout all Imperial Nations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820429)
How the Tea Party compares to illegal immigration, I have no idea.

Because both our current immigration laws and the laws the British crown placed on the Colonist at the time were immoral and deserve to be over thrown or ignored and subverted in any way possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820429)
There are legal channels to obtain citizenship and all of the benefits (including representation) that come with it in this nation.

Do you have any clue how hard it is to become a US Citizen these days? Its not like the 1920's when we let a flood of people in through Ellis Island, there are huge restrictions on becoming a US Citizen, even for well educated, hard working folks. When you're living in squalor in a 3rd world country and a land of opportunity is just a short jaunt a way, do you really expect people to stay in the squalor because of some idiotic law?

I've had many friends desperately try to become US citizens and they've had to return to their home countries because getting citizenship here is so difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820429)
When someone wishes to move to another country, do you expect the person to adapt to the country or the country to adapt to the person?

I really don't care either way. Statements like this are generally just thinly veiled racism or xenophobia. Whats it matter if someone moves here and doesn't become Americanized? Isn't what makes America great how different we all are?

I drove by the Sikh Temple in Coronado the other day, I saw about 10 guys in Turbans playing Cricket. Should I have shouted "put on ball caps and play baseball like an American you brownies!"? They were having fun and I got to watch a few minutes of cricket, it was pretty cool if you ask me.

Most immigrants by the 2nd and 3rd generation become pretty homogenized with the rest of society and anyone who knew anything about history would already be aware of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820429)
As much as Democrats would like to court illegals, shower them with entitlements, and hand them citizenship to instantly provide them 12 million more voters, I don't believe this sort of manipulation to be healthy for our future.

I don't know what this has to do with anything. I'm not a Democrat, I'm an American, part of being an American is welcoming in as many immigrants as possible.

Our National immigration policy ought to be: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

If you can't get on board with that, I'm not sure how you can call yourself an American. Lets streamline the immigration process and let in more of everyone, not just Hispanics. More Indians, South Americans, Europeans, whoever. If they're willing to travel hundreds or thousands of miles, often times leave their families, just for a thin shot at improving their lives, they sound like the sort of people I want in my country.

We've got plenty of room and plenty of opportunity for everyone, we ought to re open the golden door.

Teacher_AZ_84 May 1, 2010 12:27 AM

I do not normally get involved when people start "bashing" each other on the forums, but I have to chime in here. Just because you do not agree or like one's comments, does not mean you have to start attacking them and calling them out personally. That is low blows.

It is one thing to disagree, but come on, let's play nice.:D

Vicelord John May 1, 2010 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher_AZ_84 (Post 4820497)
I do not normally get involved when people start "bashing" each other on the forums, but I have to chime in here. Just because you do not agree or like one's comments, does not mean you have to start attacking them and calling them out personally. That is low blows.

It is one thing to disagree, but come on, let's play nice.:D

why would we play nice?:frog:

DowntownDweller May 1, 2010 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 4820471)
Because both our current immigration laws and the laws the British crown placed on the Colonist at the time were immoral and deserve to be over thrown or ignored and subverted in any way possible.

Incorrect.

Quote:

Do you have any clue how hard it is to become a US Citizen these days? Its not like the 1920's when we let a flood of people in through Ellis Island, there are huge restrictions on becoming a US Citizen, even for well educated, hard working folks. When you're living in squalor in a 3rd world country and a land of opportunity is just a short jaunt a way, do you really expect people to stay in the squalor because of some idiotic law?
Yes. Maybe they should improve their own countries. We have enough trouble without them bringing their problems here.

Quote:

I've had many friends desperately try to become US citizens and they've had to return to their home countries because getting citizenship here is so difficult.
Have you looked at the unemployment numbers. We don't need any more bodies in this country.


Quote:

I really don't care either way. Statements like this are generally just thinly veiled racism or xenophobia.
OK, that's just BS. I can now see why you feel the way you do.

Quote:

Whats it matter if someone moves here and doesn't become Americanized? Isn't what makes America great how different we all are?
No, you obviously don't understand the own melting pot reference you alluded to. People coming here should ENRICH the US, not be their own little clicks and pockets. This country isn't Canada, Mexico, India, the UK, Korea, or whatever hole you are fleeing, its the USA, so don't try to make it what you left.

Quote:

part of being an American is welcoming in as many immigrants as possible.
Only when we needed BODIES. We haven't needed unskilled labor in many decades.

Quote:

Our National immigration policy ought to be: "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
See above.

Quote:

If you can't get on board with that, I'm not sure how you can call yourself an American.
I'm sure how I can call myself American. Not sure about how you sleep at night though.

Quote:

Lets streamline the immigration process and let in more of everyone, not just Hispanics. More Indians, South Americans, Europeans, whoever. If they're willing to travel hundreds or thousands of miles, often times leave their families, just for a thin shot at improving their lives, they sound like the sort of people I want in my country.
Lets set up an exchange. For each hardworking, honest, law abiding, educated citizen we let in, the country of origination has to take a liberal in return.

Quote:

We've got plenty of room and plenty of opportunity for everyone, we ought to re open the golden door.
On this we greatly disagree.

PHX NATIVE 929 May 1, 2010 12:52 AM

Hoover,

We live in a complicated world, much different than the one when an idealistic inscription was placed on the Statue of Liberty. I agree that the process to become a citizen is absurdly lengthy, can be burdensome, and certainly needs to be improved. Until that happens, current laws should be respected.

Pulling the racism/xenophobia card is ridiculously unfair and inaccurate. You are aware that many illegals have blue eyes and blonde hair, correct? I don't give a rat's behind if they are green with purple polk-a-dots.

I've been blessed to travel around the world quite a bit and I've seen the way others live first-hand. I'm the first to admit that it's only by the grace of God that I was so fortunate to be born in the United States and yes, if I was born into a 3rd world country, I too would be looking for a better quality of life elsewhere. Life is not always fair, unfortunately. Becoming an American is a privilege, not a right.

Yes, I expect newcomers to learn American history, learn our language, and respect our culture and I see nothing outlandish about that expectation. THIS DOES NOT MEAN ABANDONING THEIR OWN CULTURE.

Calling our illegal immigration laws immoral is interesting to say the least. Obviously, not everyone in our society sees morality the same way. Some goofball on these boards the other day said he didn't feel obligated to continue to pay his mortgage because "we don't live in that moral world any more." I now know that some think morals can suddenly change based on circumstance. Pathetic.

Never called you a Democrat. Merely pointed out why the Dems take the stance they take. If you think it's not political, I don't know what to tell you.

DowntownDweller May 1, 2010 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX NATIVE 929 (Post 4820525)
Some goofball on these boards the other day said he didn't feel obligated to continue to pay his mortgage because "we don't live in that moral world any more." I now know that some think morals can suddenly change based on circumstance. Pathetic. .

I lambasted Sean for that irresponsible outlook. Should be criminal in my opinion. Nobody has personal responsibility any more.

PHX NATIVE 929 May 1, 2010 12:58 AM

"Because both our current immigration laws and the laws the British crown placed on the Colonist at the time were immoral and deserve to be over thrown or ignored and subverted in any way possible."

Those that believe it justifiable to blow up abortion clinics would give a healthy round of applause to the quote above.


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