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HX_Guy Feb 20, 2013 10:56 PM

That's freaking awesome!

RichTempe Feb 20, 2013 11:32 PM

After today, maybe a Winter Olympics is in order? :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img10/8625/20130220161742.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img195/5874/20130220160227.jpg

phxSUNSfan Feb 21, 2013 12:17 AM

abc15 has some cool pictures of the snow in Phoenix today...including light rail trains cutting through the snow:

http://www.abc15.com/gallery/news/ne...hrough-arizona

Freeway Feb 21, 2013 1:15 AM

That's not snow. It is a mix of hail and graupel. It was almost scary how quickly the media hopped on the "it's snowing in Phoenix" bandwagon today. I believe I heard "meteorologist" Caribe Devine on 12 News refer to this as "white precipitation." How scientific. Snow doesn't bounce when it falls, nor is does it fall as balls of ice.

I guess everyone moves here from the Midwest and East Coast and automatically forgets what snow is...

Vicelord John Feb 21, 2013 1:30 AM

actually in some parts it was snow.

Where I am, in Paradise Valley, and where PHX31 was, in central Phoenix, it was hail, but further northeast you can bet your ass it was snow. I know people who were in it, and they aren't all naive Arizonans like you'd like to believe, Freeway, rather some moved here from snowy areas.

Arquitect Feb 21, 2013 1:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 6022663)
actually in some parts it was snow.

Where I am, in Paradise Valley, and where PHX31 was, in central Phoenix, it was hail, but further northeast you can bet your ass it was snow. I know people who were in it, and they aren't all naive Arizonans like you'd like to believe, Freeway, rather some moved here from snowy areas.

Yeah, the East Valley also got real snow.

phxSUNSfan Feb 21, 2013 1:40 AM

Graupel did fall in most areas, especially in Central Phoenix...however, like VLJ wrote, it did snow in parts of metro Phoenix today. Either way, it was icy and cold white stuff on the ground. The picture of Salt River Fields and the mountains around town are of real snow cover.

FYI: graupel (a.k.a. soft hail and snow pellets) is formed when small, supercooled droplets of water collect on, and freeze to a snowflake. From Wikipedia:
Graupel (german pronounciation: ['gʁaʊpɛl], also called soft hail or snow pellets)[1] refers to precipitation that forms when supercooled droplets of water are collected and freeze on a falling snowflake, forming a 2–5 mm (0.079–0.197 in) ball of rime. Strictly speaking, graupel is not the same as hail or ice pellets, although it is sometimes referred to as small hail. However, the World Meteorological Organization defines small hail as snow pellets encapsulated by ice, a precipitation halfway between graupel and hail.[2]

Freeway Feb 21, 2013 3:32 AM

I live in the foothills of the McDowell Mountains, off of Thompson Peak Parkway, one of the coldest areas of the Valley. I took the 101 home from work today, right by Salt River Field, and was caught in the backup due to road conditions. I will tell you that was NOT snow on the roadway and the white covering the ground was NOT snow either. It was graupel and hail. I got home to very low snow levels on the McDowells (rare), but no snow in sight. Sorry to crush anyone's belief that it snowed in much of the Valley today. That was not snow. The people who told you otherwise, including the media, were lying. It was in the low to mid 40s around much of the Valley when this supposed "snow" was falling. Anyone who knows anything knows that true snow doesn't make it to the ground at that temperature and it most certainly does not stick, especially to the roads. Just another lame attempt to try to put Phoenix in the news...
(rant over)

....Back to development news.

Vicelord John Feb 21, 2013 4:23 AM

You seem to be the only naysayer in the bunch....

dtnphx Feb 21, 2013 3:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeway (Post 6022648)
That's not snow. It is a mix of hail and graupel. It was almost scary how quickly the media hopped on the "it's snowing in Phoenix" bandwagon today. I believe I heard "meteorologist" Caribe Devine on 12 News refer to this as "white precipitation." How scientific. Snow doesn't bounce when it falls, nor is does it fall as balls of ice.

I guess everyone moves here from the Midwest and East Coast and automatically forgets what snow is...

Your comment seems annoyed and douchey. Next time it rains, you'll remind us that it was just drizzle and therefore not considered rain because in the Midwest, blah, blah. :slob:

pbenjamin Feb 21, 2013 5:31 PM

Where was that?? I live near 7th Ave/Thomas and we had nothing resembling that. Just some tiny hail that people keep telling me was called graupel, but nothing that stuck or even threatened to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 6022483)


PHX31 Feb 21, 2013 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbenjamin (Post 6023392)
Where was that?? I live near 7th Ave/Thomas and we had nothing resembling that. Just some tiny hail that people keep telling me was called graupel, but nothing that stuck or even threatened to.

Up near Maryland.

RichTempe Feb 22, 2013 8:45 AM

Just for Laughs

http://imageshack.us/a/img20/2830/54...0199985349.jpg

FitnessPower Feb 22, 2013 5:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichTempe (Post 6024352)

LOL nice!

HooverDam Mar 13, 2013 1:33 AM

I wrote an article for Blooming Rock about the Roosevelt St situation, enjoy:


http://tinyurl.com/a2mpmmx

Leo the Dog Mar 13, 2013 2:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 6049005)
I wrote an article for Blooming Rock about the Roosevelt St situation, enjoy:


http://tinyurl.com/a2mpmmx

Nice job! I agree with everything you wrote. It is such a no-brainer. It's infuriating that city leaders in Phoenix just don't get it.

HX_Guy Mar 13, 2013 2:17 PM

Great article. I don't know why the parallel parking thing is such a mystery to the City of Phoenix. As you pointed out, just look at other successful urban streets...just do what they are doing, what's so difficult about that?

HooverDam Mar 13, 2013 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6049566)
Nice job! I agree with everything you wrote. It is such a no-brainer. It's infuriating that city leaders in Phoenix just don't get it.

The frustrating part to me is not that the Streets Dept. doesn't get it. We likely have the worst Streets Dept. of any big City in America. But the fact that some of the more powerful business owners on Roosevelt are super against parallel parking is insane. Metered parallel parking was invented (in OKC) as a way to improve business and it worked! There's tons of studies showing that in an urban retail district, each on street parking spot results in 5x the amount of consumer spending in that district than if it didn't exist.

Its just a maddening conversation:

Me/Other people "Parallel parking provides safety for pedestrians and will help your businesses."

Streets Dept/Business Owners: "No we want a pedestrian friendly area, not parking thats for the 'burbs!"

Me/Other people: "Oh sorry, perhaps you've misunderstood what we meant. Here's a pile of studies and examples from awesome cities. See, isnt that cool?"

Streets Dept/Business Owners: "Nope! We dont want it. We made up our minds already"


:doh:

HX_Guy Mar 13, 2013 5:02 PM

What the hell kind of on-street parallel parking have they seen in the 'burbs? Huge parking lots? Yes. Parallel street parking? Not so much.

I think they just want to do the opposite of whatever big East Coast cities have, afterall I think that's a huge reason why a lot of people are out here...to get away from that. I can say that probably 95% of people I know hate parallel parking and some dont even like going downtown because they think all that is available is parallel parking. Then again most don't even know how to parallel park so I guess I can understand their dilemma.

You should ask, by a show of hands, how many people on the Streets Dept know how to parallel park. :D

Leo the Dog Mar 14, 2013 4:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HX_Guy (Post 6049834)
What the hell kind of on-street parallel parking have they seen in the 'burbs? Huge parking lots? Yes. Parallel street parking? Not so much.

I think they just want to do the opposite of whatever big East Coast cities have, afterall I think that's a huge reason why a lot of people are out here...to get away from that. I can say that probably 95% of people I know hate parallel parking and some dont even like going downtown because they think all that is available is parallel parking. Then again most don't even know how to parallel park so I guess I can understand their dilemma.

You should ask, by a show of hands, how many people on the Streets Dept know how to parallel park. :D

I agree. I don't mind parallel parking because I can drive and I'm not afraid of dinging my bumpers...isn't that why we have them?!

I have put a lot of thought into this. I used to live in Boston and often ask "why don't they just copy successful cities, such as Boston?" Phoenix attracts transplants who left big cities of the east coast and the Midwest. Therefore, it's run by a bunch of folksy anti-urban officials, who have no idea how real cities function. As long as the budget is growing and balanced they could care less about the urban fabric because the city appears to be healthy even though it is dying at the core.

Why would they care about one street in central Phx when their constituents live in suburbia Phx? Phoenix has sprawled too much for most of the population to give a damn about central Phx. Downtown is no longer their town when they live 10-25 miles outside of the core.

PHX31 Mar 14, 2013 9:38 PM

Interesting that the city put parallel parking on 1st St for that improvement project. Maybe you should have interviewed the owners and managers of the Turf or other businesses over there how they like the spaces in front of their establishment and used that as info and dialogue towards the ones opposed to parallel parking on Roosevelt St. to try to get them to change their mind.

What's the latest on the City's proposal?

plinko Mar 15, 2013 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 6011951)
I came across this "Original Architectural Rendering" of the Viad Tower online.

I thought there was supposed to be a twin, but I had never known the original (or the twin) was supposed to be shorter with the angled slopes much more pronounced. Anyone ever seen this or known about this? Plinko?

http://img3.etsystatic.com/008/0/665...63419_o5dm.jpg

Interesting. I've never seen that before. It's definitely the same architect (HKS of Dallas), but obviously a much different building.

FYI, the 'twin' was suppose to be built at 90 degrees to the current tower to the north of the parking structure where the current surface lot sits on 1st Ave.

PHX31 Mar 15, 2013 5:03 PM

Lately I've been on a kick to discover historic buildings that remain in Phoenix. I know we've lost a ton to demolition through the years, but I've refused to give in to the notion that there is nothing historic left in Phoenix, or I refuse to believe I know every historic building or house still standing. There has to be more.

No one may give two shits about this stuff (my previous "discovery" of a possible horse hitching post remaining downtown didn't seem to matter to anyone), but it is interesting to me.

Looking over a 1930 aerial, I found what originally looked like 3 duplexes on the southeast corner of 7th Street/Whitton. There are some nice streets with remaining historic housing stock in the area, but not too much "multi-family" stuff, so they caught my eye. Here they are:
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ep/duplex1.jpg

So I went to the existing aerial just to see what was there now, and there seems to be a new larger building - meaning the duplexes were demolished some time ago:
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ep/duplex2.jpg

However, looking at the roofline, it looks like those duplexes might actually still be there. Going to streetview, I see that while some monolithic facade with an old mural is there, looking around the corner of the building you can see something more, with distinctive skinny arched windows (usually a dead giveaway of a pre-war building).
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ep/duplex3.jpg

So a couple of those duplexes from at least the 1920s are actually still there, just hiding from view! I'll have to go in and check them out some day.

I also noticed this house just across the street on Whitton riding the streetview car:
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...p/whitton1.jpg

Looks like some kind of territorial architecture to me, and it turns out this house/duplex was built in 1899-1900. Pretty sweet, considering how far from downtown Phoenix that must have been back in the day, and that it is still standing and that it is that old.

HX_Guy Mar 15, 2013 5:09 PM

Very cool stuff man, I love checking out things like this too, just haven't lately. :/

HooverDam Mar 15, 2013 6:16 PM

Thats awesome PHX31, I always appreciate when you post that sort of thing.

Speaking of HP stuff, the City is moving forward in the process to fill the HP Officer position in City Hall. Currently a lady named Michelle Dodds has had the role on a rather long (over a year) "interim" basis. I know she's applied for the position as well as a bunch of other people, so thats good. Far too many Departments in the City right now are oddly headed by interim people, which hampers what they can get done.

I've been asked to sit on the Citizens Review Committee to make a suggestion to the City regarding the hire. I'm not sure who the candidates are just yet, but I'll likely lean towards Ms Dodds as she did a heroic job on the David Wright House situation, already knows the inner workings of City Hall, and is extremely responsive/easy to work with from the community point of view.

Leo the Dog Mar 15, 2013 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 6053148)
No one may give two shits about this stuff (my previous "discovery" of a possible horse hitching post remaining downtown didn't seem to matter to anyone), but it is interesting to me.

I meant to comment on that...I thought that was super cool that they still exist in modern Phx. I LOVE history and historical items and the stories that go along with it. My mother's side of the family settled out west in the early 20th century. Some in AZ some in Mexico many in Northern Calif. I remember my grandmom telling stories of riding her horse into town (SE Arizona) to go to grammar school. They used to tie their horses up outside of school. They didn't have "the club" or anti-theft devices of any kind. Makes one realize just how far our society has collapsed on a very short period of time.

Anyways, I always appreciate the effort of documenting these treasures.
Thanks Phx31!

Vicelord John Mar 16, 2013 12:08 AM

Thought I'd share this picture with the forum. Took it at the top of dc ranch country club. If you squint you can see downtown.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...ps47c4703e.jpg

Leo the Dog Mar 16, 2013 12:43 AM

Cool perspective of Phx. Nice view of scottsdale air park..

Vicelord John Apr 21, 2013 7:30 PM

a friend took a picture of me during today's bike ride and hipsterglammed it. My first thought upon seeing it was 'i remember when all those guys at skyscraperpage used to call me fat'.

[IMG]http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...ps354dfb36.jpg[/IMG]

dtnphx Apr 21, 2013 11:57 PM

Wow, you are a lot fitter than in the past. Good for you.

Leo the Dog Jun 27, 2013 5:41 AM

Heat wave
 
Good luck guys with the possible record breaking heat coming this weekend! The local news here is funny (eventhough many are old news anchors from Phx), talking about intense heat (mid 80's), they have no idea about 115-120!

PHX31 Aug 16, 2013 7:48 PM

Good Shepard School @ 19th Ave & Northern.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...hool_1940s.jpg

Still There!
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...ep/aaaaaaa.jpg

We talked about this building on Central and Adams before, and how it would be awesome if the facade could be restored (impossible).
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../adadfassf.jpg

Just found a pretty good picture of it. I really wish this remained as is, and, while we're at it, I'd swap out the current for the historic hotel too (although, I believe it burned down).
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i2...Hotel_1908.jpg

phxSUNSfan Aug 16, 2013 8:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 6235154)
We talked about this building on Central and Adams before, and how it would be awesome if the facade could be restored (impossible).

Wow, that was a really nice building across from the hotel. However, I think it was more than destroyed beyond the façade. I believe the fire in 1910 that destroyed the brick and wood-framed Hotel Adams spread to that building. So it's possible the bland box in the first picture is a newer building. After the fire, the hotel was replaced by a grander Hotel Adams that was demoed for the brutalist hotel (Renaissance Phoenix Downtown) we have today.

Original hotel replaced with this less elaborately designed, but still nice, building:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411FLZKAPaL.jpg

PHX31 Aug 16, 2013 8:33 PM

/\From what I've read about it, it just had a horrible "update". Haven't read anything about the fire hitting that building too.

phxSUNSfan Aug 16, 2013 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 6235217)
/\From what I've read about it, it just had a horrible "update". Haven't read anything about the fire hitting that building too.

And that is correct, just found a source saying the Gooding Building was hosed off to protect it from the heat when the hotel was not salvageable and allowed to burn to the ground:

"The Adams Hotel, largest and finest in the valley at the time, burned to the ground in 1910. Located at Central and Adams Street in Phoenix, it was built of brick with spacious wooden sleeping porches all around. It wasn’t an apocalypse, however, all the hotel staff and guests managed to escape with their lives. Rebuilt in poured concrete, the second Adams Hotel survived until demolished in 1973. Now the Crown Plaza occupies the site. The fire hose in the picture is trained on the Gooding Building across the street to protect it from exposure to the heat."

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wS7qhfsw7L...1910+color.jpg

From this site: http://arizona100.blogspot.com/2009/...t-at-this.html

nickw252 Sep 1, 2013 8:40 PM

Does anyone here know what the procedure for taking an RV to an ASU game for tailgating is? What lot can you park in? Can you leave it over night? Do you have to pay? Etc.

PhxER Sep 2, 2013 2:55 AM

RV and Bus Parking
RV and parking is available for purchase in Lot 59N on Rio Salado and Packard Drive for $50 per vehicle.

To Purchase Parking Passes
Parking passes are limited. To purchase a parking pass, transfer spaces or add to a season ticket holder account, contact the Sun Devil Ticket Office at (480) 727-0000.

Parking lots in the northern portions of campus (season pass holder areas) open 5 hours prior to kickoff; all other ASU lots and structures open 3 1/2 hours prior to kickoff.

Source

HooverDam Sep 5, 2013 10:33 PM

Shameless self promotion ahead:

My girlfriends floral shop has moved from Old Town Scottsdale to Downtown Phoenix. They don't do cash and carry bouquets (though they're considering expanding into that sector) they're a wedding/event florist. They were featured in a nice Downtown Devil piece here.

They'll be having their grand opening tomorrow, for First Fridays. They're in a cool red brick building on 7th St. Just south of where the CrossFit gym is (which is moving out to go take space in an old church, but rumors are something really cool could be replacing them).

Here's a Facebook event page. If you're doing the First Fridays thing, swing on by. There will be drinks, some finger foods, games, etc.

PHX31 Sep 5, 2013 10:46 PM

Do you know which church the crossfit gym is moving to?

HooverDam Sep 6, 2013 3:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHX31 (Post 6256369)
Do you know which church the crossfit gym is moving to?

No, I don't, sorry. That info may not even be 100% correct. I just asked one of their gym members "where is it moving?" and he said "into a church" and ran off. :/

rocksteady Feb 21, 2014 4:37 AM

Not to bring up politics, but I can't help but wonder if this new law allowing businesses to deny service based on religious beliefs will throw a wrench in all our recent economic and development gains we've had lately in the same way sb1070 did. Does Google Fiber decide they don't want to do business with us? Does Apple decide to pull out? Do future companies looking at relocating here decide they want to go to a more friendly environment?

To early too tell, but let's hope Brewer vetoes this. Unfortunately the word of mouth may be damage enough. New, high paying, forward thinking industries looking to set up shop look at things like this.

nickw252 Feb 21, 2014 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocksteady (Post 6461644)
Not to bring up politics, but I can't help but wonder if this new law allowing businesses to deny service based on religious beliefs will throw a wrench in all our recent economic and development gains we've had lately in the same way sb1070 did. Does Google Fiber decide they don't want to do business with us? Does Apple decide to pull out? Do future companies looking at relocating here decide they want to go to a more friendly environment?

To early too tell, but let's hope Brewer vetoes this. Unfortunately the word of mouth may be damage enough. New, high paying, forward thinking industries looking to set up shop look at things like this.

I was thinking the same thing. This is the MLK Day controversy all over again. Hopefully we don't lose the Super Bowl over this.

Leo the Dog Feb 21, 2014 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocksteady (Post 6461644)
Not to bring up politics, but I can't help but wonder if this new law allowing businesses to deny service based on religious beliefs will throw a wrench in all our recent economic and development gains we've had lately in the same way sb1070 did. Does Google Fiber decide they don't want to do business with us? Does Apple decide to pull out? Do future companies looking at relocating here decide they want to go to a more friendly environment?

To early too tell, but let's hope Brewer vetoes this. Unfortunately the word of mouth may be damage enough. New, high paying, forward thinking industries looking to set up shop look at things like this.

What new law is this? I'd like to read it.

A business can refuse or provide goods/services to anyone they choose, by the way.

KevininPhx Feb 21, 2014 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6462229)
What new law is this? I'd like to read it.

A business can refuse or provide goods/services to anyone they choose, by the way.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politi...call-veto.html

I don't know enough about Gov. Brewer to guess what she'll do, but I can't imagine any governor signing this. It's a terrible bill, mostly for being unclear in its intent. Can you deny service to someone with no religion? Can a business ask a person what their religion is? Etc.

mdpx Feb 21, 2014 6:39 PM

The Republic has an excellent editorial today calling on the Gov. to veto it with really clear points. Fingers crossed!

http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/ar...dom-bills.html

nickw252 Feb 21, 2014 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog (Post 6462229)
What new law is this? I'd like to read it.

A business can refuse or provide goods/services to anyone they choose, by the way.

That's not exactly correct. A business can deny service for a good reason (unruly customer, closing time), for no reason, but NOT for an illegal reason (i.e. discrimination).

The AZ legislature recently passed a law saying that businesses can discriminate against customers if it offends their subjective religious beliefs. They are basically giving businesses a free pass to discriminate against gays under the guise of religion (I'm not sure what religion preaches intolerance? :shrug:).

In reality I don't think this law will have earth-shattering effects on how business is operated but it will have a profound effect on how Arizona is perceived by the public and business community. As a result, it will be bad for business and tourism similar to SB1070 and Arizona's refusal to recognize Martin Luther King Day which resulted in the NFL taking away the Super Bowl.

westbev93 Feb 21, 2014 8:34 PM

I'm actually for this bill not because I am in favor of discriminating against anyone, but rather, because it is so incredibly stupid and will backfire (hopefully with hilarious results).

Remember the Goddess Temple prostitution bust a few years ago? The Temple Goddesses (prosecuted as prostitutes) were adhering to their religious beliefs and using sexual healing techniques. Under this bill, the generally applicable prohibition against prostitution would not be enforceable. Polygamy is a part of certain fundamentalist LDS sects. This bill would arguably allow polygamous marriages. And perhaps most ironically, this bill could arguably allow same-sex marriage so long as you practice a religion that allows for same-sex marriage. Rastafarians use marijuana in religious ceremonies (I think), and if so, they arguably have a free pass on using marijuana without State prosecution.

The government can overcome the presumption if it can show that its law is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest and is the least intrusive way of furthering that interest. With the Temple Goddesses (as an example), the compelling governmental interest against prostitution is public health. But wouldn't it be less intrusive to meet that purpose by requiring condoms? Same-sex marriage was never previously subjected to strict scrutiny because no protected class was involved, but now it arguably could be if your decision to marry is substantially motivated by a religious belief.

Either the Legislators need to listen to their lawyers or they need to hire better ones. Because this bill is full of unintended consequences.

nickw252 Feb 21, 2014 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by westbev93 (Post 6462600)
I'm actually for this bill not because I am in favor of discriminating against anyone, but rather, because it is so incredibly stupid and will backfire (hopefully with hilarious results).

Remember the Goddess Temple prostitution bust a few years ago? The Temple Goddesses (prosecuted as prostitutes) were adhering to their religious beliefs and using sexual healing techniques. Under this bill, the generally applicable prohibition against prostitution would not be enforceable. Polygamy is a part of certain fundamentalist LDS sects. This bill would arguably allow polygamous marriages. And perhaps most ironically, this bill could arguably allow same-sex marriage so long as you practice a religion that allows for same-sex marriage. Rastafarians use marijuana in religious ceremonies (I think), and if so, they arguably have a free pass on using marijuana without State prosecution.

The government can overcome the presumption if it can show that its law is in furtherance of a compelling governmental interest and is the least intrusive way of furthering that interest. With the Temple Goddesses (as an example), the compelling governmental interest against prostitution is public health. But wouldn't it be less intrusive to meet that purpose by requiring condoms? Same-sex marriage was never previously subjected to strict scrutiny because no protected class was involved, but now it arguably could be if your decision to marry is substantially motivated by a religious belief.

Either the Legislators need to listen to their lawyers or they need to hire better ones. Because this bill is full of unintended consequences.

Based on the last few years the Arizona legislature should be renamed to "The Constitutional Lawyer's Full Employment Act."

KevininPhx Feb 21, 2014 8:48 PM

[QUOTE=westbev93;6462600]I'm actually for this bill not because I am in favor of discriminating against anyone, but rather, because it is so incredibly stupid and will backfire (hopefully with hilarious results).

Stupid bills don't backfire. They hibernate until they can be strategically used to really damage a group of people. "It's the law."

westbev93 Feb 21, 2014 8:58 PM

A stupid bill can backfire when you inadvertently legalize a whole host of things you never intended to legalize.


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