SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Southwest (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=643)
-   -   Southwest Coffee Talk (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=173766)

Vicelord John Aug 2, 2010 7:29 PM

LOL you took my question seroiusly.

HooverDam Aug 6, 2010 8:12 AM

I can't sleep, I found these interesting renderings of BOB from before it existed:

http://www.stadiumpage.com/future/bankonemodel_07.jpg

Notice how glassed out this plan was. That would've been great, allowing some views out to the NW and the Downtown Towers.

http://www.stadiumpage.com/future/bobmodel1.jpg

This one includes a nice park like area and superior entryway along Jefferson. Also at the very bottom of the frame there is a palm lined path where the Garage Mahal would eventually be built, I wonder was there ever something else planned there? A park or some open space would've been nice.

Leo the Dog Aug 6, 2010 3:43 PM

Anyone else notice how artist renderings always look better than the finished product? They tend to emphasize landscaping vegetation, pedestrians, traffic zipping by etc.

Looks like there's a water feature too on the right side of the top picture.

Vicelord John Aug 6, 2010 5:14 PM

What's funny is nearly everyone parks ne of the stadium and has to walk all the way around it anyway.

NIXPHX77 Aug 7, 2010 5:44 AM

i do wish Chase Field would get a small makeover. Get rid of that ridiculously located tiny parking lot fronting Jefferson St - i can't believe they would put that there - even our baseball stadium has a strip mall feel. jeez.
also the lighting/signage is terrible, i.e. that super bright spotlights at the NE and NWcorners. also, some kind of architectural enhancements so it's not so boxy would be nice. i'm just talking exterior here for now.
I am glad they did not close off 4th St as in top photo, but agree with Hoover - more glass would be better so there would be more views out and in (the panels would be better if they did not block some outward views even when open when you sit on the sides. Anyone going to Gonzo's # retirement Sat.? i might.

Tito714 Aug 7, 2010 5:51 AM

i went today and we actually won and saw the fireworks (They come from the Garage Majal)!! The first rendering is great. I think they should renovate so that there's another plaza on the north side with a restaurant and fountains!

Vicelord John Aug 7, 2010 6:36 AM

I hate the fireworks!!! FUCK the diamondbacks.

Tito714 Aug 7, 2010 8:09 AM

lol. i can see why, having to deal with that shit every friday.

HooverDam Aug 7, 2010 9:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIXPHX77 (Post 4938657)
i do wish Chase Field would get a small makeover. Get rid of that ridiculously located tiny parking lot fronting Jefferson St - i can't believe they would put that there - even our baseball stadium has a strip mall feel. jeez.

Ive thought a cool thing for that parcel would be a brick and mortar Arizona Sports Hall of Fame. Make a nice multistory museum thats tall enough that it could have some bleachers on its roof that see into Chase Field when the panels are open.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIXPHX77 (Post 4938657)
but agree with Hoover - more glass would be better so there would be more views out and in (the panels would be better if they did not block some outward views even when open when you sit on the sides.

I wish the panels were just glass. Sure directly North of Chase there aren't any towers, but those sitting along the 3rd base side could see out to the mountains more and those on the 1st base side could see some towers.

Obviously they'd lose some advertising money without the panel ads but I wonder if they could recoup some of that by placing ads where the large red D'backs logos are in this photo:
http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/national/bk1bpk03.jpg

(there used to be ads in those spots by the by)

Additionally, Chase Field needs to embrace solar. It drives me nuts when watching a game and they show an interior shot of the roof and say "APS reminds you to put solar panels on your roof." Really? Really? You have the biggest roof in the state and its not got panels and you're telling us to put them on our homes?

Now obviously you couldn't put panels on the entirety of the roof because of how it slides on top of itself. But the middle sections seem like they could have solar panels on them. So could the portions of the roof that are fixed along the South and West sides of the stadium. Additionally the garage between Chase and USAC ought to have solar panels on top of it like a lot of the ASU garages are now getting (and Id say the Mahal too, but really I just want that knocked down).

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIXPHX77 (Post 4938657)
Anyone going to Gonzo's # retirement Sat.? i might.

I wanted to, but I have a friends b-day thing to attend. :(

Vicelord John Aug 7, 2010 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tito714 (Post 4938733)
lol. i can see why, having to deal with that shit every friday.

Yeah. Took me 45 minutes to get home from I-10 and 7th street. A cop let me through the street closed barricade, but only affer the fireworks had ended. As soon as i went through the barricades, some ass hole pulled me over and tried to write me a ticket. I went ballistic to the point he called for backup who happebed to be the guy who let me through.

Ive talked to downtown traffic dept, my coyncilman, etc. For hours on the phone and email. They all say it is more important to get people out of downtown then to get the "tiny amount of people who live downtown" home. They say in all the years they have been shutting 7th down that im the only complaint theyve ever heard. Bullshit.

Tito714 Aug 7, 2010 7:43 PM

hoover, why not have advertisment on top of the garage majal, so that we can have glass planels, and also getting rid of those awful pictures on the exterior of the baseball players would be a plus as well.

John. that really sucks, that's why i park at the cityscape garage when i go, it's further but i don't get stuck in traffic. unfortunalty you don't have a choice.

HooverDam Aug 7, 2010 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tito714 (Post 4939153)
hoover, why not have advertisment on top of the garage majal, so that we can have glass planels, and also getting rid of those awful pictures on the exterior of the baseball players would be a plus as well.

I guess that would be oK in the short run. I just don't want any money put into the Mahal in fear that it would give it another reason for existence. Its truly one of the worst things in Downtown and the sooner its demolished the better.

plinko Aug 8, 2010 12:03 AM

I don't particularly care for the Garage Mahal either, but don't you think that the garage between AWA and BOB is far worse? Imagine the really creative mixed use project that could sit on that block...

HooverDam Aug 8, 2010 8:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plinko (Post 4939364)
I don't particularly care for the Garage Mahal either, but don't you think that the garage between AWA and BOB is far worse? Imagine the really creative mixed use project that could sit on that block...

That one only takes up 1 square block (not 2 like the Mahal) and has retail along the North side. As garages go, its OK. Id love it to have retail on all sides, but most garages in Phx don't even have retail on 1 side, so its good compared to them.

Plus if JSED ever did happen it would likely get wrapped in retail.

E: Also, a garage I hate as much as the Mahal or maybe even more is the Chase Tower garage bounded by VB/Monroe, 1st/2nd. Its among the many reasons I dislike the Chase Tower and think its embarrassing that its our states tallest/most prominent skyscraper. That garage is particularly ugly, even for a parking garage, It has no retail or anything useful or worthwhile at ground level. The sidewalks around it are mostly barren of trees, dirty, and covered in dried up gum blobs. It also cuts off the Herberger and St Marys Basillica area from the Western half of Downtown.

HooverDam Aug 23, 2010 9:37 AM

Hey check out these neat posters:

http://theheadsofstate.myshopify.com/


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/004...png?1282413412

Im kinda surprised to see PHX included in their first batch. Never mind the skyline isn't perfectly accurate and the mesas are more reminiscent of Northern Arizona/Monument Valley.

It says Phoenix, its got something that looks like Camelback, Im orderin' the darn thing :P

Leo the Dog Aug 23, 2010 4:08 PM

This is an article about housing in general, but it did mention Phoenix, so I decided to post in SW coffee talk to see how others feel about PHX housing situation.

Source: http://www.cnbc.com/id/38811394

Quote:

Housing Fades as a Means to Build Wealth, Analysts Say

Published: Monday, 23 Aug 2010 | 9:44 AM ET
By: David Streitfeld

Housing will eventually recover from its great swoon. But many real estate experts now believe that home ownership will never again yield rewards like those enjoyed in the second half of the 20th century, when houses not only provided shelter but also a plump nest egg.

The wealth generated by housing in those decades, particularly on the coasts, did more than assure the owners a comfortable retirement. It powered the economy, paying for the education of children and grandchildren, keeping the cruise ships and golf courses full and the restaurants humming.

More than likely, that era is gone for good.

“There is no iron law that real estate must appreciate,” said Stan Humphries, chief economist for the real estate site Zillow. “All those theories advanced during the boom about why housing is special — that more people are choosing to spend more on housing, that more people are moving to the coasts, that we were running out of usable land — didn’t hold up.”

Instead, Mr. Humphries and other economists say, housing values will only keep up with inflation. A home will return the money an owner puts in each month, but will not multiply the investment.

Dean Baker, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, estimates that it will take 20 years to recoup the $6 trillion of housing wealth that has been lost since 2005. After adjusting for inflation, values will never catch up.

“People shouldn’t look at a home as a way to make money because it won’t,” Mr. Baker said.

If the long term is grim, the short term is grimmer. Housing experts are bracing themselves for Tuesday, when the sales figures for July will be released. The data is expected to show a drop of as much as 20 percent from last year.

The supply of homes sitting on the market might rise to as much as 12 months, about twice the level of a healthy market. That would push down prices as all those sellers compete to secure a buyer, adding to a slide that has already chopped off as much as 30 percent in home values.

Set against this dismal present and a bleak future, buying a home is a willful act of optimism. That explains why Adam and Allison Lyons are waiting to close on a $417,500 house in Deerfield, Ill.

“We’re trying not to think too far ahead,” said Ms. Lyons, 35, an information technology manager.

The couple’s first venture into real estate came in 2003 when they bought a condo in a 17-unit building under construction in Chicago. By the time they moved in two years later, it was already worth $50,000 more than they had paid. “We were thinking, great!” said Mr. Lyons, 34.

That quick appreciation started them on the same track as their parents, who watched the value of their houses ascend for decades. The real estate crash interrupted that pleasant dream. The couple cannot sell their condo. Unwillingly, they are becoming landlords.

“I don’t think we’re ever going to see the prosperity our parents did, but I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom either,” said Mr. Lyons, a manager at I.B.M. “At some point, you just have to say what the heck and go for it.”

Other buyers have grand and even grander expectations.

In an annual survey conducted by the economists Robert J. Shiller and Karl E. Case, hundreds of new owners in four communities — Alameda County near San Francisco, Boston, Orange County south of Los Angeles, and Milwaukee — once again said they believed prices would rise about 10 percent a year for the next decade.

With minor swings in sentiment, the latest results reflect what new buyers always seem to feel. At the boom’s peak in 2005, they said prices would go up. When the market was sliding in 2008, they still said prices would go up.

“People think it’s a law of nature,” said Mr. Shiller, who teaches at Yale.

For the first half of the 20th century, he said, expectations followed the opposite path. Houses were seen the way cars are now: as a consumer durable that the buyer eventually used up.

The notion of housing as an investment first began to blossom after World War II, when the nesting urges of returning soldiers created a construction boom. Demand was stoked as their bumper crop of children grew up and bought places of their own. The inflation of the 1970s, which increased the value of hard assets, and liberal tax policies both helped make housing a good bet. So did the long decline in mortgage rates from the early 1980s.

Despite all these tailwinds, prices rose modestly for much of the period. Real home prices increased 1.1 percent a year after inflation, according to Mr. Shiller’s research.

By the late 1990s, however, the rate was 4 percent a year. Happy homeowners were taking about $100 billion a year out of their houses, which paid for a lot of good times.

“The experience we had from the late 1970s to the late 1990s was an aberration,” said Barry Ritholtz of the equity research firm Fusion IQ. “People shouldn’t be holding their breath waiting for it to happen again.”

Not everyone views the notion of real appreciation in real estate as a lost cause.

Bob Walters, chief economist of the online mortgage firm Quicken, acknowledges that the recent collapse will create a “mind scar” just as the Great Depression did. But he argues that housing remains unique.

“You have to live somewhere,” he said. “In three or four years, people will resume a normal course, and home values will continue to increase.”

All homes are different, and some neighborhoods and regions will rebound more quickly. On the other hand, areas where there was intense overbuilding, like Arizona, will be extremely slow to show any sign of renewal.

“It’s entirely likely that markets like Arizona will not recover even in the 15- to 20-year time frame,” said Mr. Humphries of Zillow. “The demand doesn’t exist.”


Owners in those foreclosure-plagued areas consider themselves lucky if they are still solvent. But that does not prevent the occasional regret that a life-changing sum of money was so briefly within their grasp.

Robert Austin, a Phoenix lawyer, paid $200,000 for his home in 2000. Five years later, his neighbors listed a similar home for $500,000.

Freedom beckoned. “I thought, when my daughter gets out of school, I can sell the house and buy a boat and sail around the world,” said Mr. Austin, 56.

His home is now worth about what he paid for it. As for that cruise, “it may be a while,” Mr. Austin said. Showing the hopefulness that is apparently innate to homeowners, he added: “But I won’t rule it out forever.”

This story originally appeared in the The New York Times

P_man796 Aug 25, 2010 3:40 AM

Hey Guys, I've been a fan of SkyscraperPage for about 3 years now and never bothered to make an account till now. I'm a second year architecture major at ASU. Hopefully one day I'll be working at SOM or Smithgroup designing Phoenix's new tallest, but I realize I have a really long road ahead of me. Until then, I'll just be following this forum.

SunDevil Aug 25, 2010 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam (Post 4956600)
Hey check out these neat posters:

http://theheadsofstate.myshopify.com/


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/004...png?1282413412

Im kinda surprised to see PHX included in their first batch. Never mind the skyline isn't perfectly accurate and the mesas are more reminiscent of Northern Arizona/Monument Valley.

It says Phoenix, its got something that looks like Camelback, Im orderin' the darn thing :P

wow, that poster is already sold out.

HooverDam Aug 25, 2010 5:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil (Post 4958834)
wow, that poster is already sold out.

Wow, glad I ordered one when I did then. Thats good that it sold out quick, hopefully that means they'll make a 2nd run of it, and eventually more Phoenix/AZ posters down the road. Looks like the San Fran and Phoenix ones are the only ones sold out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_man796 (Post 4958806)
Hey Guys, I've been a fan of SkyscraperPage for about 3 years now and never bothered to make an account till now. I'm a second year architecture major at ASU. Hopefully one day I'll be working at SOM or Smithgroup designing Phoenix's new tallest, but I realize I have a really long road ahead of me. Until then, I'll just be following this forum.

Welcome!

Tito714 Aug 25, 2010 6:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_man796 (Post 4958806)
Hey Guys, I've been a fan of SkyscraperPage for about 3 years now and never bothered to make an account till now. I'm a second year architecture major at ASU. Hopefully one day I'll be working at SOM or Smithgroup designing Phoenix's new tallest, but I realize I have a really long road ahead of me. Until then, I'll just be following this forum.

Welcome to the forum! What's your actual name? I probablly had you for some classes last year.

JKPhx Aug 25, 2010 7:13 AM

Random question? Does anyone know what the city plans to do with the south building of the convention center? If it is still used is it going to continue being used? Has it been remodeled or anything?

HooverDam Aug 25, 2010 7:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKPhx (Post 4958959)
Random question? Does anyone know what the city plans to do with the south building of the convention center? If it is still used is it going to continue being used? Has it been remodeled or anything?

Its still used quite a bit for Conventions. The interior has been remodeled and updated to match as closely as possible the North and West buildings. We shot the Phoenix segments of "So You Think You Can Dance" in there as well as in the Symphony Hall.

I think eventually down the road some point in the distant future the plan is to demolish it and replace it with a large building of the style of the North and West buildings.

Vicelord John Aug 25, 2010 3:24 PM

South building carries a lower cost which is why its the busiest building.

P_man796 Aug 25, 2010 9:10 PM

My name is Paul Giordano. Are you a student yourself or like a grad student or TA?

Tito714 Aug 25, 2010 10:49 PM

Okay Paul, i know you. You hung out alot with Mike. We played volleyball at Barrett's one time. My name is Humberto, I hung out with Francisco, Miguel, and Aaron.

HooverDam Aug 27, 2010 2:03 AM

Quote:

County targeting pool parties at Valley resorts
Maricopa County cracks down on pool parties at swanky Valley resorts, a popular method of boosting hotel revenue during slow sum
by Megan Finnerty - Aug. 26, 2010 06:21 PM
The Arizona Republic
Admission no longer is free, and there will be no more drinking in the pool.

Which, it might go without saying, is largely the point of the splashy parties packing the pools at upscale resorts.


For three summers, metro Phoenix resorts and hotels have boosted revenue during the slow summer season by tuning into MTV Beach House-style bacchanals, with DJs, signature cocktails and live bands. This summer saw a substantial increase in the number of parties.

Trendy destinations such as the W Scottsdale Hotel and Residences and the InterContinental Montelucia Resort fought the seasonal drop in occupancy and room rates by luring locals to spend on daybed and cabana rentals and $10 to $14 cocktails.

Maricopa County's Environmental Services Department has been scrutinizing the parties largely because of their success - over-capacity crowds and alt-rock acts perched on the edge of pool decks.

The health and safety issues they found will mean fundamental changes to the parties. Resorts that had found a popular moneymaker are scrambling to make changes that will keep county regulators satisfied and keep the pool decks full.

For weeks, representatives of the county office, which licenses the businesses to operate the pools and serve guests, have been making unannounced visits. They have met with area hotel and resort managers, reviewing the regulations that come with their semi-public pool licenses, the kind common for hotels, motels, condo and apartment complexes. The result: Stepped-up enforcement of regulations that were part of the county code already.

So no more drinking, or eating for that matter, in the pool.

No more music stages abutting the pool.

No more open-to-the-public parties, except ones already booked.

No more free entry and oversized crowds.

"In the last two years the scale and grandeur of the parties has picked up, and we are just trying to help the facilities understand the public-health impact before we start focusing on enforcement," said John Kolman, director of the Maricopa County Environmental Services Department.

Kolman said inspectors have reminded managers to monitor pool capacity, to double-check that rescue equipment is always visible, to keep lounge chairs, stages and other structures 4 feet from pool edges, and most crucially, to stop inviting the public to their events.

Inspectors will continue to make unannounced checks through September, the traditional end of the pool-party season.

The day rate

Hotels are already making changes.

At the Hotel Theodore in Old Town Scottsdale, formerly the Mondrian Scottsdale, this means general manager John Reynolds has stopped advertising his Saturday and Sunday pool parties as aggressively, and has started charging a $20 day rate for use of the hotel's pool, gym and other facilities, $10 of which serves as a food and drink credit.

"We've gotten some flack on it," he said. "We've seen a decrease in the number of people coming through."

Reynolds launched a $59 day rate, for which guests can use a room from 11 a.m. until the party is over at 6 p.m., or they can pay $30 more for the whole night.

"We've been policing the drinking policy, and it's just been a lot of yelling," joked party-marketing consultant Steve Kushnir, who helps with the Hotel Theodore parties. "We've kind of made it more package-driven so it's a total experience at the hotel, not just a party."

The InterContinental Montelucia Resort currently charges $50 to hang out by the pool on Saturdays and Sundays, and $40 of that goes to food and beverage. A spokeswoman from the resort said they've always discouraged drinking in the pool and that they will continue to enforce those health regulations.

Appeals expected

Many resort pool parties are already limited to guests who've rented rooms and their friends, like the ones at the Hotel Valley Ho, or to guests who've purchased tickets, like the ones at the Clarion Hotel Scottsdale. These locations will be minimally affected by the stepped-up enforcement.

But at the W Scottsdale, general manager Leon Young said he's seen real revenue losses since he started enforcement. He has, however, seen room sales go up slightly.

His hotel has made a name for itself hosting buzzy daytime bashes and nighttime swim parties, serving pool-friendly drinks like frozen creamsicle cocktails or bottles of vodka with Gatorade on ice. Now, the second-floor pool will be open only to those who rent cabanas, day beds or rooms.

"Certainly, I can understand you don't want to be floating next to a piece of lunch meat," Young said. "But if we follow the rules about no glass near the pool, I don't see why we couldn't allow some drinks in the pool."

Young is optimistic the county will be open to revisiting the regulations to create variances that would allow resorts and hotels to pursue party profits.

"We are rooms-focused in spring and peak season, but in summertime, it really is about the events and promotions you can organize to bring people in," Young said.
Jesus fucking Christ, this is why we can't have nice things. I don't ever go to these pool parties, its not my thing. But who's it hurting Maricopa County? The answer is fucking no one. The hotels desperately need ways to make money in the blistering summer weather, they've found one, and you've gone and pissed on it. I'm so sick of 'leaders' whether they be at the City, County or State level fucking things up in the name of 'safety' or some other horse shit when no one is being adversely affected.

JKPhx Aug 27, 2010 2:16 AM

that is absolutely ridiculous...this city is never going to gain a good reputation besides good weather and hiking if these old conservative cranks dont find something better to do before they die.

Don B. Aug 27, 2010 1:53 PM

My e-mail to the director of that department this morning:

Dear Ms. Krause:

I read with dismay the article in today's Arizona Republic, a section of which is excerpted below. Please note I do not work for the hotel or lodging industry, nor do I attend any of these parties. However, I think what your department is doing is just illogical and counter-intuitive. Phoenix is in the worst recession since the Great Depression; tourism is down and 400,000 Phoenicians, including myself, have lost their jobs since the recession began in 2006. Yet all we can do is hurt businesses trying to survive in this economic downturn? Sometimes I think even Arizona's notoriously laissez faire government can go too far. Whatever happened to personal responsibility? Since when does the government have the power to regulate such minute details as a simple pool party? In the law, the accompanying legal concept is called assumption of the risk, which can serve as a complete bar to recovery. In another words, if you voluntarily attend a party and get sick, well then you assumed the risk and deserve the result. Don't want to incur that risk? Then stay home. Life is full of risks, and even a nanny-state government cannot eliminate all of those risks.

I urge you to reconsider these onerous regulations. At this point, economic considerations trump almost everything. Getting people back to work should be the first priority of the government, not nitpicking at every little detail. It is this red tape which causes a lot of businesses to go under. Do we want to close up further hotels and businesses? I think this is most unwise. Phoenix is already teetering on the edge of a depression...to the point that growth has pretty much completely ground to a halt. In fact, there's growing evidence that Phoenix may be losing population for the first time in history.

Thank you for allowing me to comment on these issues.

Cordially,



Donald M. Burns
Phoenix, AZ 85020
(602) 999-7601

County targeting pool parties at Valley resorts

Maricopa County cracks down on pool parties at swanky Valley resorts, a popular method of boosting hotel revenue during slow summer

by Megan Finnerty - Aug. 26, 2010 06:21 PM

Admission no longer is free, and there will be no more drinking in the pool.

PHX31 Aug 27, 2010 3:49 PM

Hey Don, nice job. I'd like to send something similar, but don't have the writing skills.

The city/county/state seems to fuck up every good and organic thing that sprouts up in this city. These organic things are what make a city fun, interesting, and thrive. I'm thinking about:

1. The regulation of these pool parties.

2. The regulation of First Fridays

3. The regulation of street food/truck vendors

I'm sure there are more.

Leo the Dog Aug 27, 2010 4:39 PM

Don't you guys know that pool parties increase traffic and block views of Camelback? Of course they need to be regulated and/or shut down by government officials that know what's best for you...(sarcastic, of course).

Vicelord John, I'd like to hear your take considering you work in hotels.

Vicelord John Aug 27, 2010 4:57 PM

I think the key to a happy society is to shield it from anything potentially hamful to it's well being. Our mothers didn't shelter us enough so no we need the govt to do it.

In reality, there are but a handful of hotels doing parties. They are great money makers for struggling properties. I think the most strugfling one in town is the Comfort Suites Scottsdale/James Hotel/Mondrian Hotel/Hotel Theodore. It's been all those over the past 4 years and has had three different restaurant concepts. In other wprds, it needs the extra business. Other places, like valley ho, montelucia, wyndham phoenix, and the clarendon are all in need of business but not to that extent. Really they are just trying to keep people working.

I think the biggest factor in the county coming down on this was simply the abuse factor. You get a bunch of people dogether drinking heavily all day, snorting coke, and then driving home. Many od'd at these parties, and emt had trouble getting to them due to the crowd. There was also a risk factor with the electronics by the water and all that. Fire marshalls are notorious for really getting upset when thier max occupancies are ignired. There is also the highly increased DUI factor.

The bottom line though, is people will still party at the pool, they will just stay the night. The 100 or so who pay the nightly room rate and drink at the pool may make up for the other 200 who don't come. The valley ho is 159 for a room with two doubles. Split that four ways and it becomes cheap. Girls staycation. It sucks they can't have live music, but I don't think this will truly affect snyone but those who can't think outside tbe box.

Vicelord John Aug 29, 2010 7:52 PM

this guy is a (in Zach Galifanakis' voice from hangover) ruhtard.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article.../urban_legends

scottkag Aug 29, 2010 9:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 4963909)
this guy is a (in Zach Galifanakis' voice from hangover) ruhtard.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article.../urban_legends

Oh yeah, tard city. Joel Kotkin is Richard Florida's arch nemesis.

Vicelord John Aug 29, 2010 9:33 PM

who is Richard Florida?

scottkag Aug 30, 2010 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicelord John (Post 4964000)
who is Richard Florida?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Florida

He's the guy who is always talking about the "Creative Class". Mayor Gordon is a fan.

HooverDam Sep 4, 2010 8:18 AM

I thought this was neat....

Quote:

Mesa couple turns an empty pool into a greenhouse.
by Allie Seligman - Sept. 3, 2010 06:16 AM
The Arizona Republic
The grass in Dennis and Danielle McClung's front yard won't grow, and the peach tree they planted withered away.

But in the backyard, hidden beneath a tent-like structure is a thriving garden that produces enough food to feed the McClungs and their two children, Caden, 4, and Vedah, 2.


The Mesa family bought their house in October. The foreclosed property had been abandoned for years, and it showed. The carpet was gone, the plumbing was torn out and the cavernous 9-foot deep pool in the back was empty.

The location and bones of the house were enough to win them over, though, Dennis McClung said.

After McClung's aunt and real-estate agent Hilda Soto, told him that to satisfy his home loan he needed to fill or repair the pool - a project that would cost thousands of dollars - he came up with another idea.

"I couldn't picture it when he said (he wanted to build) a greenhouse" in the pool, Soto said.

The family got to work and after much research on the Internet, a few experiments and about $1,500 worth of steel cable, tubing, an evaporative cooler and other supplies, McClung made his dream a reality.

The pool now produces fruit, vegetables and herbs and is home to eight egg-laying chickens and more than 1,000 tilapia fish.

"It was all an experiment, and we've been improving it as we've come along," McClung said.

There was a lot of trial and error. They started with tomato plants in 5-gallon buckets, but it took too much water to keep plants alive in the harsh Arizona climate. So McClung researched hydroponics and outfitted the garden with tubes and pipes that carried water to the plants.

In hydroponics, plants are grown without soil, absorbing nutrients that are put into their water supply.

But that method was also costly - the nutrient solution is expensive, and making it at home requires more than a basic understanding of chemicals, McClung said - so he researched another method, aquaponics.

Now the system functions like a giant terrarium. The fish create nutrient-rich waste, which feeds the vegetable plants, which in turn purify the water, which is then returned to the fish pond. Duckweed, a floating aquatic plant, is also used to feed the fish and the chickens, starting the cycle anew.

McClung's method uses 80 percent less water than conventional gardening.

There are about 10,000 unused pools in the Valley, Dennis McClung said.

"If we can feed a family of four with one pool, then with those 10,000 pools we could feed Apache Junction," he said.

Danielle McClung said she was on board with her husband's plan from the beginning.

"He had a brilliant idea and I believed in it a 100 percent," she said. "It was completely genius."

Perhaps the biggest benefit of the garden is the decreased reliance the family has on traditional food sources.

"It's definitely made our trips to the grocery store much, much lower than if we were going to the store like everyone else," Danielle McClung said.

What they can't grow, they purchase or trade with others, using their produce and eggs to barter.

Growing their food also ensures quality. "We don't have to worry about where our food is coming from," she said. "It's definitely a wonderful thing."

Danielle McClung grew up on a farm in Ohio, where her mom canned fresh produce for the family to eat all year long.

"To be able to feed my children like the way I grew up, I think, gives them quite an advantaged life," she said. "We want to live long lives and we want to eat healthy and be healthy."

The McClungs eat differently now than they used to, with a diet heavier in produce and fish. They are more creative with their meals and pick herbs from the garden to make their own tea.

Dennis McClung said he can grow just about anything in the pool; his crop includes tomatoes, broccoli, peppers, berries, herbs and a mandarin orange tree. The fish pond, at the deep end of the pool, is about 3-feet deep. The chicken coop is positioned above it, and plants fill the rest of the pool.

Though the greenhouse takes time and energy to maintain, it has become the family's favorite spot to hang out.

"It takes work, (but) it's worth it to me to show my kids we don't have to live like everyone else," McClung said. "We spend probably more time in our pool than we would swimming."

He said the garden has changed the way the family lives. Danielle McClung works four days a week and Dennis McClung went from working seven days a week as a project manager at Home Depot to staying home with the kids and running 2012supplies.com, a website that sells survival supplies.

And his new new-found green thumb even inspired Soto to start her own small garden of melons and jalapenos.

Though she wasn't sure what to expect with the pool, said she is impressed by what the family has done.

"I just could not believe what he did with his swimming pool," she said. "He just transformed (it) into something that I think is really cool."

They also have their own site about it here:
http://gardenpool.org/

Crazy to think there are 10,000 empty pools in the Valley, seems like if even 100 or so were converted to uses like this it would be a very good thing.

combusean Sep 12, 2010 9:23 PM

So I think I have one of the shortest commutes in Phoenix now.

I've been working with ASU for the last 4 years or so and the funding for my position runs out in theory on 09/30. I was emailed a position a couple months ago for a company that was unnamed but I already knew who they were--"a socially responsible advertising firm" that I had walked by many times.

I emailed my resume last week and was hired. It's 650' from my front door to theirs.

www.riester.com I will be doing the same thing I've been doing for 10 years--backend web development--but it's the best run shop in Phoenix on multiple levels and I stand to grow substantially. Plus it's a 30% raise. =D

HooverDam Sep 13, 2010 4:15 AM

^Congrats. Though Ill bet some artist with an in house studio who just rolls out of bed has you beat commute wise :P

Here's something I've been noticing recently and wondering about. Most of the young, educated folks I know are sadly already out of Phoenix or are planning to leave. They go to Austin, LA, Portland, Denver or wherever. When they leave and go to these new cities, upon my arrival I find them living in inexpensive areas that Urban Pioneers would be expected to move to. They obviously want an urban experience and disliked growing up in a stucco covered sprawl neighborhood in Phx. However, they never would've considered moving to FQ Story, Coronado, Garfield, etc.

Why is this? Is it because they grew up hear and got so engrained to the notion that those areas were 'ghetto', yet upon arriving in a new city didn't have such notions? I know about a dozen close friends or family members who either have moved in the past 3 years or are planning to, and its all these sorts of situations.

I guess what I'm asking is, how do we prevent this? How do convince these young folks to stay in Central Phoenix and help make it better?

combusean Sep 13, 2010 5:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam
^Congrats. Though Ill bet some artist with an in house studio who just rolls out of bed has you beat commute wise

Technically I did work at home before, and still do for 2 of my 3 jobs. Riester is the only one that has a commute, however short. For the purposes of putting myself in the shortest commute category, I excluded those who work from home. I actually have to leave my house. =)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HooverDam
Here's something I've been noticing recently and wondering about. Most of the young, educated folks I know are sadly already out of Phoenix or are planning to leave. They go to Austin, LA, Portland, Denver or wherever. When they leave and go to these new cities, upon my arrival I find them living in inexpensive areas that Urban Pioneers would be expected to move to. They obviously want an urban experience and disliked growing up in a stucco covered sprawl neighborhood in Phx. However, they never would've considered moving to FQ Story, Coronado, Garfield, etc.

Why is this? Is it because they grew up hear and got so engrained to the notion that those areas were 'ghetto', yet upon arriving in a new city didn't have such notions? I know about a dozen close friends or family members who either have moved in the past 3 years or are planning to, and its all these sorts of situations.

I guess what I'm asking is, how do we prevent this? How do convince these young folks to stay in Central Phoenix and help make it better?

The cities you mention Hoover have an allure, culture, and employment market all their own. Portland is Portland--its the zenith of humanity for the 20-something. It's manageable and walkable without being a clusterfuck. Austin is a king of music on its own even moreso than LA and parts of Orange County. Denver exists as a special case. I haven't seen the draw to that city as far as I have LA and San Diego for my friends, but you can easily see its appeal--it's the largest city of its size in an area the size of Europe in a dramatic natural setting. It's the center of the entire Mountain West and has been for a hundred fifty years.

I think for Phoenix to join the ranks of those magnet cities it first has to manage its racial and immigration issues as a red herring to social progress.

The tacit admission from those that claim illegal immigrants are stealing jobs is that the belly-achers are competing with a workforce that's uneducated, largely illiterate, and desperately poor. It's the biggest admission of ineptitude and laziness imaginable.

Education, higher wages, and an effective moderately-taxed government will do wonders to bring about a satisfied, self-sustaining middle class. But first Arizona will have to deal with its profoundly stupid and paranoid xenophobic side that constantly votes against its own interests.

To do that, it requires Statehouse reform:
-- legislator pay increases to an executive wage: $24,000 to $85,000 so that people can actually become legislators without having become independently wealthy first, vastly increasing the pool of qualified candidates.

A better legislature would understand that at present, Arizona has the allure of Alabama in 1959. It'll take the slow federal action to undo stupidity at the statehouse and eventually indict people like Arpaio and fix a few things Congressionally here and there-- just like it did 50 years ago.

Phoenix's transition from Selma to Portland can only be hastened by a deep introspective look at our place in the country as one overcoming its challenges productively, not endlessly waging war on social change and civil rights.

--Tax code reform. Arizona could be flush with cash if its corporate tax code wasn't written by thieves. It needs to start over, with personal income taxes going up to more than the laughing stock of my paycheck.

If it can do the above and manage to reverse its economic decline with a plethora of green jobs and non-construction industries, Phoenix could be the next Portland in 15 years if we're lucky. Everyone--including the 20-somethings--that moved here in 2006 never knew about Evan Mecham.

Vicelord John Sep 13, 2010 6:02 AM

The way to stop it is to turn az into a blue state. Aint gon happen.

Leo the Dog Sep 13, 2010 4:08 PM

People chose to live in Phoenix because of the easy life-style, cheap rent, cheap housing, free parking. One can park directly in front of their dwelling for free. One can run errands on the fly compared to other cities where a plan may have to be made to coincide with transit times and available parking. This is why, I think families like to settle in Phoenix while the young, single, hip, highly mobile crowd moves on.

Central Phoenix's historic neighborhoods are almost more suburban in nature than the suburbs themselves. While they don't have the miles of stucco/tile, they do have larger lots, less pop. density with a heavy reliance on the auto. So, if I'm a young 20 something, looking for a cool city-like atmosphere, Central Phoenix wouldn't be near the top of the list even in Phx metro, I think parts of Scottsdale and Tempe are the bright urban spots in the metro and it this is where the young crowd settles when they move to the area.

Vicelord John Sep 14, 2010 5:30 PM

Ok nevermind i got too hot.

HooverDam Sep 16, 2010 9:37 AM

Hey so tomorrow (technically today but I haven't gone to sleep yet, so its Thurs. 9/16) there's a meeting with the City at 6pm to 7 about creating Phoenix's first Bicycle Boulevard. More info about the concept at the excellent Blooming Rock blog, here.

Here's the info:

Time 6:00pm - 7:00pm
Location City Hall
200 W. Washington St. 1st Floor, Assembly Room A
Phoenix, AZ

Im going to be there, some come out, support good urban planning in Phoenix and try to have a say! :D

EDIT: Heres a video that explains Berkleys nation leading Bike Boulevard system which makes the concept a bit more clear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX8wkI7CwpU

Don B. Sep 16, 2010 8:02 PM

^ Where are they planning to put this? Where is the funding coming from, given Phoenix's horrendous budget deficit right now? Great idea otherwise...

I always thought a street like Missouri could benefit from such a thing, but not on a major thoroughfare like Glendale or Camelback.

--don

HooverDam Sep 16, 2010 9:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 4983578)
^ Where are they planning to put this? Where is the funding coming from, given Phoenix's horrendous budget deficit right now? Great idea otherwise...

I always thought a street like Missouri could benefit from such a thing, but not on a major thoroughfare like Glendale or Camelback.

--don

Yah it wouldn't be major streets, it would be a series of neighborhood streets. As for where, if you read the Blooming Rock article it says they want to connect the Downtown Public Market, Christown Mall and Gateway CC. So it'll near the LRT line, but not exactly following the line.

The initial funding is coming from a federal grant they've secured.

SunDevil Sep 18, 2010 1:33 AM

It's Friday, happy hour time, so I talk some people at work into going to Hanny's I've never been there and wanted to check it out. We get there early since we get out of work early, however we're there until 6:00 and the place is virtually dead the whole time.

I don't get it, this is a place made for happy hour and they 1. don't have a happy hour 2. have hardly anyone stopping in after work? I just don't get it. $10 and you get 2 of the "little" martinis, that is plenty of booze for happy hour and I think that is a great price, so I get why they don't have a happy hour, but couldn't they just say something like "Happy Hour: $5 martinis $5 appetizers (they already have some around that price) $1 off all beers" would that be so hard? sorry that this is incoherent, I'm just befuddled.

Vicelord John Sep 18, 2010 4:00 AM

Ill forward your concerns to my friend alex who is the gm there.

Don B. Sep 21, 2010 2:51 PM

Personal update:

I lost my job seven weeks ago and have been surviving as best as I can. Unfortunately, I think the time has come that I depart Arizona for more positive climes elsewhere. I'm researching several possible locations, and there's no rush as I have unemployment that will last for some time. It would appear I'm overqualified for most legal jobs that are out there.

I probably can't handle cold at all, so truly chilly cities like Kansas City, Chicago and Boston or Philly are out. My short lists include:

Los Angeles
San Diego
San Francisco
Portland
Denver
Austin
Charlotte
Miami

:)

--don

Vicelord John Sep 21, 2010 3:03 PM

I've been looking at a portland or denver move lately as well.

Leo the Dog Sep 21, 2010 4:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don B. (Post 4988247)
I probably can't handle cold at all, so truly chilly cities like Kansas City, Chicago and Boston or Philly are out. My short lists include:

Los Angeles
San Diego
San Francisco
Portland
Denver
Austin
Charlotte
Miami

:)

--don

Don,
All cities posted are fantastic choices. If you're worried about chilly weather, then I'd think twice about Denver, Portland, and possibly even San Francisco.


All times are GMT. The time now is 1:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.