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DrNest Oct 15, 2017 8:04 PM

It's a crazy shift at work today with the winds. I've seen gusts up to 45kts (~80km/h). There are many planes holding, several diverting. I'm glad I don't work YYZ terminal.

LeftCoaster Oct 16, 2017 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7951995)
It's not normal that a Vancouverite cannot purchase a house in his own city because some Chinese with a suitcase full of cash is buying up everything he can. Same for Toronto.

The cap on flights won't stop this of course, but it will help limit it. It will also help increase the yields across the Pacific, as demand will catch up or surpass supply.

These things are not at all related. Someone looking to spend $10 million on a house isn't concerned with yields and where economy class fares are.

I'm fine with the Chinese government subsidizing my ability to travel and hope they continue to do so. In the 2 years I've flown to India, Burma and upcoming to Singapore all on Chinese airlines for less that $700 dollars. It's the Canadian consumer that wins by the Chinese dumping fares.

thenoflyzone Oct 16, 2017 11:26 PM

Be it as it may, China is maxed out in North America, and neither Canada or the US seem in a hurry to do something about it.

That tells me neither government shares your enthusiasm for more Chinese access.

LeftCoaster Oct 17, 2017 12:07 AM

Probably not no, but more in the interests of protecting their national airlines than anything else. As a consumer/casual aviation fan I'm much more open to seeing increased access than protection of Air Canada's international business.

I'm not sure of the Canadian/American government's willingness to negotiate, but the Chinese government does have a big bag of sticks and carrots they can use to open up some more frequencies even if it isn't the Canadian government's preferred option. I for one hope they use it, especially if the American's don't, as it would give Canadian airports preferential growth.

Cage Oct 17, 2017 1:41 AM

Airbus buys majority stake in CSeries, Main production line stays in Quebec, 2nd line in Mobile, Alabama to focus on US production.

Deets: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...beandmail.com&

Great day for CSeries. Get your A319neo promotional materials before while supplies last, they will be collectors items once the deal closes.

wave46 Oct 17, 2017 2:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cage (Post 7954704)
Airbus buys majority stake in CSeries, Main production line stays in Quebec, 2nd line in Mobile, Alabama to focus on US production.

Deets: https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...beandmail.com&

Great day for CSeries. Get your A319neo promotional materials before while supplies last, they will be collectors items once the deal closes.

The A319neo never got traction the way the original did - I think there might be 50-60 on order.

It helps that the CSeries was designed as a 110-140 passenger aircraft from the outset as opposed to a shrink of an existing aircraft. That optimizes the aircraft from a CASM point of view.

There are a number of MD80/90 and Boeing 717 operators that are coming up on fleet replacement time. The E190 hasn't proven to be an adequate replacement so far - most major North American airlines have only tentatively dipped their toes in and felt that that particular aircraft didn't suit their needs.

It is looking up for the CSeries, no doubt.

kwoldtimer Oct 17, 2017 2:20 AM

With no punitive U.S duties on sales to U.S. airlines if the aircraft are assembled in the USA, one assumes ...

wave46 Oct 17, 2017 2:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 7954747)
With no punitive U.S duties on sales to U.S. airlines if the aircraft are assembled in the USA, one assumes ...

Local assembly has often been used in order to avoid tariffs - notably in the auto sector.

LO 044 Oct 17, 2017 3:39 AM

I posted this on the YEG thread but can someone enlighten me as to how Airbus was allowed to get 50.01% of Bombardier without a payment and assumption of any debt? Isn't Bombardier basically giving away half the CSeries program for nothing? Or was bankruptcy protection looming for this to occur?

wave46 Oct 17, 2017 3:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 7954816)
I posted this on the YEG thread but can someone enlighten me as to how Airbus was allowed to get 50.01% of Bombardier without a payment and assumption of any debt? Isn't Bombardier basically giving away half the CSeries program for nothing? Or was bankruptcy protection looming for this to occur?

I think the credibility benefit of partnering with Airbus is the 'payment'.

That, and having an option to beat the US tariffs at minimal cost to each.

It's the difference between owning 100% of a failure and 49.99% of a potential success.

SaskOttaLoo Oct 17, 2017 4:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 7954816)
I posted this on the YEG thread but can someone enlighten me as to how Airbus was allowed to get 50.01% of Bombardier without a payment and assumption of any debt? Isn't Bombardier basically giving away half the CSeries program for nothing? Or was bankruptcy protection looming for this to occur?


Woah, seriously??? You are kidding. I almost feel sick to my stomach. After all of that investment, risk, etc., they give away half of it for nothing? I'm dumbfounded. I REALLY hope there's a big silver lining in here somewhere, because it seems like Airbus just got the deal of the frigging century. I'm trying to understand why Bombardier would choose to go this route.

wave46 Oct 17, 2017 4:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo (Post 7954845)
Woah, seriously??? You are kidding. I almost feel sick to my stomach. After all of that investment, risk, etc., they give away half of it for nothing? I'm dumbfounded. I REALLY hope there's a big silver lining in here somewhere, because it seems like Airbus just got the deal of the frigging century. I'm trying to understand why Bombardier would choose to go this route.

They don't have the time to fight it out with Boeing and the loss of the order from Delta would likely kill the plane.

Simply put, Bombardier does not have the capital to fight the big boys. They had to partner with one of them to ensure credibility.

J81 Oct 17, 2017 4:41 AM

They never lost the order with Delta. Infact Deta explicitly stated they would still take delivery and would never pay the tariffs. Its a genius move by Bombardier to really stick it to Boeing now.

wave46 Oct 17, 2017 5:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 7954870)
They never lost the order with Delta. Infact Deta explicitly stated they would still take delivery and would never pay the tariffs. Its a genius move by Bombardier to really stick it to Boeing now.

I knew Delta hadn't cancelled their order.

I had reservations about how long Delta would stick with it - trade wars operate at a glacial pace (see: softwood lumber). In 5-7 years when their MD-88s are pushing end of life, waiting for a resolution to whatever appeals process both Bombardier and Boeing are at might not be a feasible option.

LO 044 Oct 17, 2017 5:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J81 (Post 7954870)
They never lost the order with Delta. Infact Deta explicitly stated they would still take delivery and would never pay the tariffs. Its a genius move by Bombardier to really stick it to Boeing now.

I would hold off on ever using the words Bombardier and genius in a sentence. And in this specific situation you definitely want to put the words Airbus and genius in a sentence. Airbus paid nothing to create the plane which is a monstrous cost but will reap in its rewards.

wave46 Oct 17, 2017 5:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 7954898)
I would hold off on ever using the words Bombardier and genius in a sentence. And in this specific situation you definitely want to put the words Airbus and genius in a sentence. Airbus paid nothing to create the plane which is a monstrous cost but will reap in its rewards.

Yeah, Airbus is the winner here. They don't have to focus on their slow selling A319neo, but can offer their customers an smaller plane with a more optimized CASM. Airbus has more extensive worldwide support services too, bolstering the credibility of the aircraft.

Bombardier gets to save face. That's about it. They will likely be more hesitant to challenge the big boys in the near future.

kwoldtimer Oct 17, 2017 1:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 7954816)
I posted this on the YEG thread but can someone enlighten me as to how Airbus was allowed to get 50.01% of Bombardier without a payment and assumption of any debt? Isn't Bombardier basically giving away half the CSeries program for nothing? Or was bankruptcy protection looming for this to occur?

No assumption of debt AND no payment. Airbus got more of the C-series for "free" than the Govt of Quebec did for a billion dollars. And that was before Quebec's participation was diluted. Voting control, I believe, remains with the family. I think Airbus also now has first right to purchase Bombardier Aerospace outright, should it ever be sold.

jmt18325 Oct 17, 2017 3:58 PM

Apparently, Airbus will own the C-Series in the mid 2020s under the current plan.

casper Oct 17, 2017 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer (Post 7955032)
No assumption of debt AND no payment. Airbus got more of the C-series for "free" than the Govt of Quebec did for a billion dollars. And that was before Quebec's participation was diluted. Voting control, I believe, remains with the family. I think Airbus also now has first right to purchase Bombardier Aerospace outright, should it ever be sold.

Blomberg is reporting that Airbus is required to make a $350M US injection into the program and another potential $350M if required. The program also gains access to an Airbus assembly line in the US (vrs. the cost of building its own factory) to get around the US's unfair trading practices.

"The company has agreed to provide $350 million in funding for the C Series in the first 12 months after the close of the deal, and as much as $350 million more, if required, over the two subsequent years, said Chief Financial Officer John Di Bert." Source https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...es-jet-program

SteelTown Oct 17, 2017 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteelTown (Post 7934399)
Apparently WestJet will bring back Hamilton to Las Vegas, starting December 2017.

WestJet adding flights to Las Vegas at Hamilton airport
Flights begin this December

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilt...lton-1.4358383

Hamiltonians will soon be able to say, "What happens in Vegas…" much more easily.

WestJet announced today that it is adding flights from Hamilton to Sin City starting this winter.

Flights will run twice weekly between the two cities starting Dec. 29, 2017, through April 27, 2018.

"As Hamilton International's largest airline, as well as the carrier with the most international flights into Las Vegas, WestJet continues to add new service in Southern Ontario," said Brian Znotins, WestJet vice-president of network planning, alliances and corporate development, in a statement.

"This new non-stop flight connects the community to a highly desirable leisure market and offers a great schedule to those looking to fly directly from Hamilton and surrounding communities without having to drive or connect through Toronto."

One-way tickets start at $189.09.


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