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-   -   Albina Vision / Rose Quarter Redevelopment (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152548)

babs Jun 3, 2016 4:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric cantona (Post 7461716)
I did. I actually know some of the people that worked on it. I'm going to continue to trust their judgement as professionals to inform me about what makes sense for that structure. anecdotal information is not going to trump research and experience for me.

BTW - this building will NEVER be responsible to bringing life back to the Rose Quarter. A) there never was life to bring back at the "Rose Quarter" because it's a fabricated place designed with suburban sensibilities; and B) the entire area needs to be reintegrated into the fabric of the city with a mix of uses and users. that entails pretty massive investment in new construction.

I know some of the people behind the planning and construction of the Moda Center so I think I know what I am talking about.

It looks like you are calling for the demolition of MC. Because of location of that building and the desires by some for it to continue as an arena ensure that the area cannot be turned back into a part of the city.

maccoinnich Jun 3, 2016 7:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 7461427)
There are couple flaws with this.
1. How many shows have bypassed Portland? Did most of them find a way to fit at the Moda Center? Are we talking about one event or enough to fill 50 nights a year? Big difference.
2. At most arenas, touring shows make little to no money on Hospitality Suites. For instance, at the Moda Center, if you buy a suite, you get tickets to all events and all of the $$$ goes to the Blazers.
3. Concession revenue usually split between the arena owner and the resident teams. Touring shows don't make money off food concessions.
4. I remember back in the 80s, the reason the Blazers gave for not having a video board was due to the ceiling joists not being able to hold the weight. Then some touring show hung a hung a bunch of stuff and everything was fine. That's when they ordered the video board.

My bottom line is that I would like to see the Rose Quarter get some life. In order to do so, there needs to be more year round and day/night activity. Spending a ton of money on refurbishing an arena that may add 20 nights a year of activity will not do it. Let's get creative and see what other ways we can bring life back to that area. A remodeled arena is keeping status quo. We can do better.

Without answering your points individually, I'll direct you to a City website that includes the previously linked to study, as well as the appendices and supporting documents. Suffice to say these are things that have been looked at.

Earlier you said that "before any money gets spent on it, there needs to be a plan." Well, there has been a lot of planning. The impression that I'm getting is that you just don't want any money spent on it at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 7461832)
I know some of the people behind the planning and construction of the Moda Center so I think I know what I am talking about.

It looks like you are calling for the demolition of MC. Because of location of that building and the desires by some for it to continue as an arena ensure that the area cannot be turned back into a part of the city.

I agree that the Rose Quarter needs to be made more active, but I disagree that the converting Memorial Coliseum to some other use is the best way to do it. There's a lot of land that's vacant or underused around the building. Converting that land to higher and better uses would do wonders for the area, and complement VMC.

tworivers Jun 3, 2016 8:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich (Post 7461889)
I agree that the Rose Quarter needs to be made more active, but I disagree that the converting Memorial Coliseum to some other use is the best way to do it. There's a lot of land that's vacant or underused around the building. Converting that land to higher and better uses would do wonders for the area, and complement VMC.

I couldn't agree more. With high-density mixed-use clustered around a renovated MC; some sort of connection from MC over Interstate Ave (at least) towards the river; a few reconnected streets; the PPS building gone; and a human-friendly road diet on that stretch of Broadway, it could be one of the coolest areas of the city. The view of central Portland from that general vantage point is pretty stupendous, too. Throw in some sort of grand institutional-cultural statement, like an Allied Works-designed new museum (contemporary art, city museum, history of the west), and, damn... fingers crossed that something like that happens in my lifetime.

babs Jun 3, 2016 2:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccoinnich (Post 7461889)
I agree that the Rose Quarter needs to be made more active, but I disagree that the converting Memorial Coliseum to some other use is the best way to do it. There's a lot of land that's vacant or underused around the building. Converting that land to higher and better uses would do wonders for the area, and complement VMC.

And I couldn't disagree with you more that keeping it as an arena is the best way to go. We already have an arena right across the walkway. The business case is weak for a remodel. If the Blazers start losing business to this newly remodeled arena, watch them cut deals to attract to draw more events over. That's the cold reality of competition.

Finding a new use for the building is the best way to kick off redevelopment of the area. Trust me, 10 years from now, we will still be having this debate unless our leaders step forward and develop a new vision for this area.

urbanlife Jun 3, 2016 7:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 7462093)
And I couldn't disagree with you more that keeping it as an arena is the best way to go. We already have an arena right across the walkway. The business case is weak for a remodel. If the Blazers start losing business to this newly remodeled arena, watch them cut deals to attract to draw more events over. That's the cold reality of competition.

Finding a new use for the building is the best way to kick off redevelopment of the area. Trust me, 10 years from now, we will still be having this debate unless our leaders step forward and develop a new vision for this area.

Why would the Blazers lose business? They would still be playing in the Moda Center. If anything, it makes more sense to try to make both arenas more active to generate more money all around.

The problem with all of this is that divide between just tear it down and keep it as is. If it had been torn down right after the Moda Center was completed, we obviously wouldn't be having this debate, but since it is still there and the metro is growing, it makes sense to look at this as an opportunity that very few cities have.

babs Jun 3, 2016 8:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanlife (Post 7462445)
Why would the Blazers lose business? They would still be playing in the Moda Center. If anything, it makes more sense to try to make both arenas more active to generate more money all around.

The problem with all of this is that divide between just tear it down and keep it as is. If it had been torn down right after the Moda Center was completed, we obviously wouldn't be having this debate, but since it is still there and the metro is growing, it makes sense to look at this as an opportunity that very few cities have.

Why would the Blazers lose business?
If a remodeled MC started to draw events away from the Moda Center (yes, even the small ones), you bet they will try to win that business over. They own that place so they have every incentive to keep it as busy as possible. They could careless about the MC.

Guys, it's been 21 years that we have been debating the future of the MC. 21 years of nothing happening. If you failed to get something done for 21 years, you'd find a different solution. I'm not calling for the building to be torn down, I'm saying that the best bet is to repurpose it. I came back from a trip to Spain and Italy. Repurposing of old buildings is very common over there. We keep the exterior structure in place and find a better use for the interior. What's wrong with that?

TowerPower Jun 4, 2016 12:57 AM

It's a very unique building - how often do you get natural light in an arena? It's too bad the indoor track idea fell through - that would have been awesome. I could see it making an interesting museum.

58rhodes Jun 4, 2016 1:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babs (Post 7462552)
Why would the Blazers lose business?
If a remodeled MC started to draw events away from the Moda Center (yes, even the small ones), you bet they will try to win that business over. They own that place so they have every incentive to keep it as busy as possible. They could careless about the MC.

Guys, it's been 21 years that we have been debating the future of the MC. 21 years of nothing happening. If you failed to get something done for 21 years, you'd find a different solution. I'm not calling for the building to be torn down, I'm saying that the best bet is to repurpose it. I came back from a trip to Spain and Italy. Repurposing of old buildings is very common over there. We keep the exterior structure in place and find a better use for the interior. What's wrong with that?

I dont think we should worry about Paul Allen and the Blazers---Maybe it could be used for the Arena Football team--If PA wants more revenue for the Moda the NHL would love a team here. Im sure the Football team could use a rent reduction--just sayin--maybe even the Winterhawks afterall its just jr hockey and the MC would still be one of the biggest arenas in the league.

maccoinnich Jun 9, 2016 7:11 PM

Quote:

Can 'National Treasure' label lead to plan for Veterans Memorial Coliseum?

http://image.oregonlive.com/home/oli...b8eb8eb080.jpg

A national historic preservation group stepped forward Thursday to help Portland officials attempt to solve a perpetually unanswered puzzle: What should be done with Veterans Memorial Coliseum?

And if the National Trust for Historic Preservation is actually able to deliver, it'll accomplish what Mayor Charlie Hales and former Mayor Sam Adams could not.

The 56-year-old sports venue has a ton of deferred maintenance and is essentially a money pit. But on Thursday, in an effort to help save the building, the preservation group labeled it a "National Treasure."
...continues at the Oregonian.

innovativethinking Jun 9, 2016 9:05 PM

Rolls eyes

babs Jun 9, 2016 11:53 PM

Love the building but after 21 years, I would hope someone has a better idea than a sports arena for the interior. Today's announcement is nothing more than a news conference. Get the Gerding guys or Venerables Properties involved with the condition that the outer shell must be maintained and see what they come up with.

Derek Jun 10, 2016 1:49 AM

I seriously think they're just letting it stand for another ~20 years until the Moda Center becomes "old" (by professional sporting standards) at which point they'll tear down the Coliseum and build a new arena for the Blazers. No clue what would happen to the Moda Center though...

2oh1 Jun 10, 2016 2:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek (Post 7469718)
I seriously think they're just letting it stand for another ~20 years until the Moda Center becomes "old" (by professional sporting standards) at which point they'll tear down the Coliseum and build a new arena for the Blazers. No clue what would happen to the Moda Center though...

This is exactly what I think.

The discussion about what to do with Memorial Coliseum has been going on for over 20 years. There's no reason to think it won't go on for another 20.

I only see one of two realistic outcomes.

#1: The Blazers decide they need a new arena and aren't willing to move out of the Rose Quarter, so they threaten to leave Portland, at which point, the talk about how important the MC is will be instantly forgotten. It'll be torn down and a new arena will replace it... and then we'll have to figure out what to do with the frigging Moda Center.

#2: The Big One hits, bringing the MC to the ground.

Worst case scenario: the Blazers decide they need a new arena, but they upgrade the MC just enough so they can move back into it while the Moda Center is leveled and replaced, leaving us with another fifty years of bogus plan after bogus plan to find a new use for the MC.

AcmeGreg Jun 10, 2016 2:25 PM

The elegant simplicity of this architecture is just breathtaking. Imagine its impact within the context of early 60s Portland, not to mention the national exposure it brought to the city. I remember hearing about it as a kid living in Southern California. The NCAA men's basketball tournament was brought to Portland because of this building.

TowerPower Jun 10, 2016 8:48 PM

People have a tendency to undervalue "recent" history - structures that are old enough that they're functionally obsolete and rundown, yet not so old as to be considered historically important or quaint. This shortsightedness has lead to the destruction of countless notable buildings - Penn Station comes to mind as a tragic example. (though modern buildings tend to be lacking in the "quaint" department ;)

maccoinnich Jun 11, 2016 5:34 AM

Quote:

Portland’s Modernist Veterans Memorial Coliseum Named City’s First National Treasure

https://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/oAY...e_crUofW.0.jpg

Designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, Portland’s iconic Veterans Memorial Coliseum (VMC) is a modernist gem—one of the finest International-Style civic buildings in the west. And today, the National Trust for Historic Preservation designated the Coliseum a National Treasure, a first for the Oregon city.

When it was built in 1960, the 135,000-square-foot VMC was a feat of engineering, with its structural weight supported by just four columns, creating an expansive, uninterrupted arena surrounded by windows.

After years of deferred maintenance and neglect—and a City Council debate over whether to demolish the structure—the National Trust will now work with locals to create a restoration and renovation plan for the building, returning it to its former beauty and transforming the interior into a state-of-the-art civic venue.

"We believe this mid-century masterpiece is poised to once again become a symbol of Portland’s highest aspirations," said Brian Libby, member of Friends of Memorial Coliseum, a local group supporting the VMC preservation. "This building’s potential in its intended open-curtain configuration, with a 360-degree view from your seats to the outside, has remained hidden away even from Oregonians who have spent their lives attending the Coliseum. We’re inspired to renew its possibilities and build on its design’s cultural and economic value."

...continues at Curbed.

65MAX Jun 11, 2016 7:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TowerPower (Post 7470609)
People have a tendency to undervalue "recent" history - structures that are old enough that they're functionally obsolete and rundown, yet not so old as to be considered historically important or quaint. This shortsightedness has lead to the destruction of countless notable buildings - Penn Station comes to mind as a tragic example. (though modern buildings tend to be lacking in the "quaint" department ;)

100% agree. Most people have no clue what a groundbreaking building this was for 1960. I don't know if it's best use now will continue to be an arena, or if it will be a market, museum, community center, sport complex, theaters, aquarium, shops and restaurants..... who knows, it could be almost anything. The important thing is that it's not going to be ripped out because some random developer wants a vacant piece of land. There are an infinite number of ways that the Coliseum can be incorporated into its surroundings and become a neighborhood anchor instead of an isolated object.

innovativethinking Jun 11, 2016 4:29 PM

How New York can tear down Yankee Stadium - a place with way more history and tradition than the Coliseum and not have anyone blink an eye while we can't let go of a waste of space and money that this building has become is beyond me.

tworivers Jun 11, 2016 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innovativethinking (Post 7471230)
How New York can tear down Yankee Stadium - a place with way more history and tradition than the Coliseum and not have anyone blink an eye while we can't let go of a waste of space and money that this building has become is beyond me.

No one blinked an eye, huh?

Lucky for us, you're not going to get your way.

Someday MC will be the gorgeous centerpiece to a re-knit urban fabric in the immediate vicinity, including the land PPS currently is occupying.

RainDog Jun 12, 2016 4:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tworivers (Post 7471342)
Someday MC will be the gorgeous centerpiece to a re-knit urban fabric...

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find this building to be a bit of an eyesore. I've been inside it, I've walked all around the outside and of course stared at it from the other side of the river. Though I can appreciate the "floating concrete bowl inside of a glass box" concept, the execution leaves something to be desired. When I look at VMC it brings to mind the generic Office/Industrial park buildings I was surrounded by growing up in San Jose. A large vacuous square building, that to me at least is completely uninspiring.:shrug:

I understand the desire to repurpose this building from a sustainability point of view. It's generally better to repurpose than to discard, but I don't see this as any sort of aesthetic gem.

Not that there is anything wrong with any of you finding joy in this building. I just don't personally. But hey, different strokes for different folks. :cheers:


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