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-   -   PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=239026)

jsbrook Jun 26, 2019 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by japmes (Post 8615332)
I agree with this. Given the land area, location and industrial history, returning the area to nature or parkland is probably the best option if the facility closes permanently. It could be a nice nature reserve. Or maybe a golf course?
And closing permanently seems likely to happen sooner rather than later. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...POcQZJoXp13qtQ I wonder what the remediation cost and timeframe will be. I would think this will be a superfund site and a federal responsibility and project: https://www.epa.gov/superfund/superf...KCXeNhHUrpHO94

Nova08 Jun 26, 2019 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eixample (Post 8616371)
My big question is what would happen to the freight rail lines (both the high line that runs on the west side of the Schuylkill and the one that runs along the east side by the river trail - I think these merge farther south but not too sure). There are still freight rail uses but would they so drastically reduce that you could also use these as a transit line?
There will be minimal change to the rail lines outside of the trackage directly in the facility.

I believe CSX only runs 1-3 oil trains a week into PES. At the peak, they ran 1-3 a day. CSX still has a number of non-unit oil trains into and through South Philly every day.

Larry King Jun 26, 2019 1:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eixample (Post 8616371)
A golf course is one of the worst possible redevelopment alternatives. Especially considering the city is already planning to get rid of the golf course at FDR park a short distance from here.

Slowly developing it for housing with some parkland retained along the river makes the most sense to me. That's a lot of row homes you could add to a city that at some point is going to become unaffordable.

My big question is what would happen to the freight rail lines (both the high line that runs on the west side of the Schuylkill and the one that runs along the east side by the river trail - I think these merge farther south but not too sure). There are still freight rail uses but would they so drastically reduce that you could also use these as a transit line?
Yes I agree, cap the contaminated soil and subdivide the land for rowhouses.

Skintreesnail Jun 26, 2019 2:09 PM
That's probably some pretty crazy contamination after 150 years of pollution. Not sure of what sort of remediation can be done to make it habitable again. Even wetlands seems like it would risk leeching whatever is captured in the soil into the water. Maybe parkland or grassland (I think I remember reading about certain grasses that remove contaminates from soil) would be safer. Being able to salvage the tracks for some sort of transit line would be cool; they go right through center city past the art museum and would be able to connect to the navy yard. That would probably contingent on the land being habitable though, unless the 25th street high line gets abandoned too. They still have all the shipping to serve though.

Skintreesnail Jun 26, 2019 2:20 PM
another closure:

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190626.html

Quote:
Hahnemann University Hospital is closing, senior hospital staff were told in meetings Wednesday.

The closing will be orderly and will happen over several months
Sounds like Drexel is fighting it.

Redddog Jun 26, 2019 2:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleWhiteOut (Post 8616335)
Looks like PES may actually finally close. This would be huge news for the city's air quality.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKCN1TR09E
Does some one have an areal view of where this refinery is and how much land it takes up?

Skintreesnail Jun 26, 2019 2:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog (Post 8616506)
Does some one have an areal view of where this refinery is and how much land it takes up?
Isn't it everything between 76 and the river (Girard Point and Point Breeze complexes)?

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...39/g370470.jpg

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...223083zs-1.htm

Justin7 Jun 26, 2019 3:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintreesnail (Post 8616495)
another closure:

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190626.html



Sounds like Drexel is fighting it.
This is a pretty huge mess for Drexel, isn't it? Is there any reasonable chance at all that the university could buy the hospital?

mcgrath618 Jun 26, 2019 4:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintreesnail (Post 8616495)
another closure:

https://www.inquirer.com/business/ha...-20190626.html



Sounds like Drexel is fighting it.
Good that it’s closing down, it’s a terrible hospital especially comparative to others we have in the area.

I’ve heard that the building itself will be demolished. Hopefully the gorgeous Neo-Gothic one is staying, but if the building fronting Vine goes I will be one happy camper. It would be nice to see that lot developed into something new.

Skintreesnail Jun 26, 2019 6:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin7 (Post 8616593)
This is a pretty huge mess for Drexel, isn't it? Is there any reasonable chance at all that the university could buy the hospital?
I was wondering that too, but then they're moving their medical school buildings back over to university city. Maybe they should just start from scratch; "Drexel University Health System". I feel like Hahnemann has some sort of stigma attached to the name.

summersm343 Jun 26, 2019 6:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skintreesnail (Post 8616752)
I was wondering that too, but then they're moving their medical school buildings back over to university city. Maybe they should just start from scratch; "Drexel University Health System". I feel like Hahnemann has some sort of stigma attached to the name.
Agree. I was against Hahnemann closing until you brought up this point. They should just restart in UCity as Drexel Med.

Sell Hahnemann and their several blocks in Center City to be redeveloped.

iheartphilly Jun 26, 2019 6:21 PM
^
Drexel's School of Medicine is in a pickle. I don't think they alone can make the hospital solvent and that's maybe one reason why they sued. Also, where are they going to send their medical students for clinical rounds, residencies, and other real world learning opportunities?

the urban politician Jun 26, 2019 8:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by summersm343 (Post 8616765)
Agree. I was against Hahnemann closing until you brought up this point. They should just restart in UCity as Drexel Med.

Sell Hahnemann and their several blocks in Center City to be redeveloped.
Awww, man, I have memories there.

I lived in Stiles Hall from 1998-1999 when I was doing pre-med post-grad schooling at what was then MCP Hahnemann. That was my first year living in a real city, carless, eating food from street vendors (back when food trucks weren't a fad).

I used to go to Westy's Tavern: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9596...7i16384!8i8192

I don't remember if it was called that back then, but a good place for pub grub, brew, and more brew.....

Ahhhh, the Philly days...

eixample Jun 26, 2019 11:31 PM
The redevelopment opportunities for the hospital closing down are enormous and that is where my mind went first, but won't this be awful for other hospitals in the area to have to absorb all those new patients?

Plus we could lose a ton of great jobs (renters, homeowners, taxpayers, and tax revenue)...a totally uninformed guess but I would bet that a higher proportion of Hahnemann people live in the city compared to the refinery workers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova08 (Post 8616401)
There will be minimal change to the rail lines outside of the trackage directly in the facility.

I believe CSX only runs 1-3 oil trains a week into PES. At the peak, they ran 1-3 a day. CSX still has a number of non-unit oil trains into and through South Philly every day.
Thanks for the info!

mcgrath618 Jun 26, 2019 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova08 (Post 8616401)
There will be minimal change to the rail lines outside of the trackage directly in the facility.

I believe CSX only runs 1-3 oil trains a week into PES. At the peak, they ran 1-3 a day. CSX still has a number of non-unit oil trains into and through South Philly every day.
FWIW, I believe more than 3 unit oil trains off of the BNSF pass through every week, but I'm pretty sure they go somewhere else in south Philly. I've heard that we have some natural gas plant that is unique on the East Coast (though, I can't remember if it was the one that, y'know, exploded!).

japmes Jun 27, 2019 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbrook (Post 8616380)
And closing permanently seems likely to happen sooner rather than later. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...POcQZJoXp13qtQ I wonder what the remediation cost and timeframe will be. I would think this will be a superfund site and a federal responsibility and project: https://www.epa.gov/superfund/superf...KCXeNhHUrpHO94
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20190626.html

Redeveloping the area as a major port facility might be the most realistic idea given the environmental issues.

eixample Jun 27, 2019 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by japmes (Post 8617207)
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philad...-20190626.html

Redeveloping the area as a major port facility might be the most realistic idea given the environmental issues.
I can't read that article because of site limits, but do we really need a new port and is the Schuylkill anywhere close to the depth needed for a port?

Urbanthusiat Jun 27, 2019 1:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eixample (Post 8617455)
I can't read that article because of site limits, but do we really need a new port and is the Schuylkill anywhere close to the depth needed for a port?
The Schuylkill is being dredged down to a 45 ft depth to accommodate larger ships and additional port traffic. Expected to be done in 2020. The State is investing $300m in capital improvements at our existing port facility. So it's possible I suppose, but they'll definitely want to wait and see how those improvements shake out first.

Boku Jun 27, 2019 1:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eixample (Post 8617455)
I can't read that article because of site limits, but do we really need a new port and is the Schuylkill anywhere close to the depth needed for a port?
From the article:

Quote:
The city has massive unmet port demand and the refinery property is large enough to attract big tenants who demand lots of space, Holt said by phone from Morocco, where he was meeting with North African distributors of Philadelphia-bound goods.

The site retains the rail, freeway, and maritime links that it depended on for the transport of chemicals, while its location in the middle of a densely populated city gives it access to the stevedores, truckers, and other workers it needs, Holt said.

“The silver lining to this otherwise quite dark cloud is that it’s in the middle of an area that can very much enjoy employment, and it’s in the middle of a distribution nexus that is unparalleled,” he said.

Grady, at PIDC, agreed that the refinery complex — like other longtime industrial facilities on the lower Schuylkill — may lend itself to such a use, since the surrounding rail and roadways would make it hard to merge with adjacent neighborhoods, and because of its environmental contamination.

Nova08 Jun 27, 2019 2:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanthusiat (Post 8617530)
The Schuylkill is being dredged down to a 45 ft depth to accommodate larger ships and additional port traffic. Expected to be done in 2020. The State is investing $300m in capital improvements at our existing port facility. So it's possible I suppose, but they'll definitely want to wait and see how those improvements shake out first.
Slight correction...The Delaware is being dredged. And a few sites indicate a Summer 2019 completion.

The Philaport already has the Southport land directly on the Delaware that can expand the South Philly port area by more than double. It is currently being used as the auto import area.

And for what it's worth, they seem to have some slight capacity issues. The ship that carried the drugs is still docked at the port as it appears they are removing every container. As a result, there have been a few ships anchored off of Cape May for a bit.


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