I've never seen that rendering before. Who cares if it's "un-Portland like". I think it looks awesome. :haha:

It's good to see Hales at least meeting with that company again.

Didn't even realize this was happening. Guess I'm not much of a sportsfan.

...continues at Portland Business Journal.

...continues at the Oregonian.

I hope they decide to tear it down. I see nothing redeeming in this building. Even if they tore it down just to build another sports arena, they could at least design it to be less of an eyesore and maybe even make it interact with the street instead of just seeming like an impenetrable fortress.

Uh oh! Now you did it RainDog. You just upset all the folks that think the MC is the Taj Mahal. I like some of the early renderings. Looks like it could be a happenin' kind of place. Ball, Chicks, and lotz of micro brew.

While I have fond memories of watching the Blazers and Winterhawks with my gramps at the VMC, I would prefer it gone. The Rose Garden, and may it ever be named so, works fine for our teams. We need a venue like the schnitz or Hollywood on the East side nr Lloyd, a cultural desert at the moment.

I agree. It would be much better as a neighborhood. Plus, it's not that great of a building. Most of the arguments to keep it are textbook--that it's a great building because of the era it represents. Truth is, most Portlanders would never miss it. Build a neighborhood that connects to the river--such a better use of space than an old coliseum.

I recall an idea to turn it into a sports medicine and aquatics center with Olympic sized saltwater swimming pools. Does anyone recall that idea?

Well, I'm going to be the lone voice here defending it. It is a building highly representative of its era, and designed by one of the most important architectural practices of the 20th Century. I find the description of it as a "fortress" kind of strange given the obvious comparison to the Moda Center, which is a 1000x more fortress. And it's not like the continued existence of the building is holding up any other realistic plans. If we need to make room for new buildings in the Rose Quarter, lets look at burying those hideous parking garage first.

Now I am a card carrying member of Docomomo, so it's obvious I have a love for an era in architecture not always so loved by the general public. However I would be equally aghast at the demolition of the Multnomah County Courthouse or the Hotel Cornelius, two other historic Portland buildings with uncertain fates. I don't think we should be so flippant about throwing our built heritage away.

I have to agree with you about the Coliseum, it is a functional building that can still be used, plus having two arenas downtown does give us a chance to put on events that would require the need for more space.

Granted I personally love watching Winterhawk games at the Coliseum over going to hockey games at the Moda due to the size of that arena for a minor league sport.

Of course on a side note, I agree with you about Hotel Cornelius, the building I have always fantasized about turning into a boutique hotel or a condo building. The courthouse building on the other hand I want to see the exterior preserved and a tower to be built within the building.

I think the Coliseum is gorgeous - but is pretty without purpose enough to justify the amount of land and opportunities the Coliseum eats up? In my opinion the answer is no.

It's actually not true that Portland can book more events thanks to the Coliseum. In theory, that seems like it should be how it works, but in reality, the Coliseum is a tough space to book. It's too large for small events yet too small for the kind of events that seek an indoor arena. It's not just Portland trying to repurpose an old venue like our Coliseum. Other cities are having the same problem.

In a perfect world, there would be a way to pick the building up and move it somewhere to serve as a museum, or who knows what. Obviously, that's crazy talk.

My guess is that the coliseum will sit there, underutilized, costing more money than it brings in, for decades to come, just as it has since the Rose Garden/Moda Center was built. Eventually, an earthquake will bring it down. I know that's a terrible thing to say, but the word "veteran" and the fact that it's now on the historic registry are going to make the building difficult to demolish, and all plans to repurpose the building have failed.

Tear it down.

Yeah, it was Portland proposal to get a Kroc funded community center. The Kroc Trust (or whatever it is) was funding one large community center per state. Salem ended up winning in the end. I believe it was going to be called the MERC or something like that.

Why the heck don't they renovate it? If your options are to either renovate it or tear it down, but never renovate it due to excuses and procrastination... you've done it to yourself.

Renovate it at what cost and for what purpose Moda Center cannot already fill?

What opportunities is it holding up?

And if we're going to make the "earthquake will bring it down argument", we might as well just demolish almost everything in Old Town and the Yamhill district. Plenty of buildings there that are getting less use than VMC is.

In addition to the MERC proposal, I also saw a proposal to repurpose the building into a design center that looked really cool and practical. It looked like someplace that I would actually check out. I don't recall if there was an IKEA or Home Depot as part of that proposal, but it would include an educational and office space component.

I actually like the look of the building and there's a ton of embodied energy in that structure. Why not tear out the surface lots and boring landscaping and build around it in a way that livens up the district? All the while repurposing the structure into something incredibly unique.

I don't feel that the Rose Garden is any more fortress like. I would say it is slightly less, though still not great.

I really hate this about sports venues, they tend to be large overbearing structures with little to no life around them outside of events. Not being a sports fan these buildings offer me next to nothing, though I do see the value they provide to the city. I just wish they would be designed in such a way that they could activate the space more consistently.

The MC should, and most likely will, be saved.

Both the embodied energy argument and the built heritage argument are powerful and should trump whatever personal opinions Portlanders might have about the architecture. It doesn't need to be a "fortress", either. Right now it is isolated behind a bunch of tall trees and surrounded by a sea of parking on one side and the monolithic Rose Garden/Moda Center on the other side.

The parking, both surface and garage, can and should be replaced by dense mixed-use, which would also restore part of the Broadway streetscape. The trees should be cut down and replaced with low-height native plants. The west side could be extended to connect with a future development on the other side of Interstate (owned by Paul Allen, sadly) or just expanded into a viewing platform. The structure itself could also be radically repurposed and still retain much of what makes it special.

The earthquake argument is specious. Let's just tear down the Steel Bridge while we're in a demolition mood. After all, it is pretty much guaranteed to come down in a large-ish quake, right? We obviously need to do a better job of seismic retrofitting structures like this, not to mention the bridges and public schools, asap.

We're very unfortunate to have a gutless, provincial-minded, imagination-lacking city council right now. The lack of direction and vision permeates every corner of the city bureaucracy and has resulted in an endless stream of studies and poorly executed proposals. I'm not confident that this newest of studies will result in anything other than continued inaction.

My theory is their keeping it around to save the spot for the Blazers future home. The Rose garden/MODA center is not young anymore. It's pretty much over 20 years old and the Blazers are big civic entity in this town so they'll need a future spot somewhere. The Memorial Colesium is a perfect place to have another arena to replace the Rose Garden/MODA center.

I don't know it's just a theory

My theory is the architecture community saved it by crying and bitching, than ran away when they actually had to find a way to make it functional. Its just picture book mentality. Just make it look like a clean jewel box so we can all take pictures of the empty masterpiece that has no use and no one outside the insular architect box likes. Funny thing is, I actually think it could have some good use, but it would need to be a gorilla reboot by normal people. Think how much more active a cart village is than a "well" design building streetscape by a qualified architect. Give it to a group of artist. I trust them more than an architect to create something of active worth.

The MC hosts roughly 150 events every year. Some are small, but it is heavily used still. Of course, these arguments have been rehashed and argued again and again, and I'd rather not go down that road for an umpteenth time.

City Council's Memorial Coliseum study includes demolition option
 

City Council's Memorial Coliseum study includes demolition option
BY BRIAN LIBBY

http://chatterbox.typepad.com/.a/6a0...15f1970b-500wi

Five years ago Veterans Memorial Coliseum, Portland's National Register-listed landmark arena, was threatened with demolition to make way for a minor-league baseball stadium. When a coalition of citizens opposed the plan, then-mayor Sam Adams reversed course and the baseball blueprints were set aside. But in the ensuing years, Adams and his mayoral successor, Charlie Hales, have been unable to take the next step: restoring the building.

continued at http://chatterbox.typepad.com/portla...on-option.html

I definitely worry about the fate of this building. I have a feeling if they don't find a solid use for it, that it is going to be torn down. Though I still prefer watching Winterhawks games at this arena.

DoCoMoMo Oregon is organizing a tour of the building on Dec 11th:

What are the three buildings at the bottom of the picture along the Willamette? Now it is just a parking lots....and why hasn't anything new been developed there yet?

That was the old Thunderbird Motor Inn. I believe it later became a Red Lion proprty before it was demolished about 15 years ago.

It looks the high-rise in the distance might be a former version of what is now Lloyd Center Tower (PacifiCorp)... but perhaps it got a new skin later in life. Cool picture.

I believe that is the Calaroga Terrace Retirement Building.

Fantastic lecture by local historian Tom Robinson on the Albina neighborhood, which used to encompass most of this picture. Hopefully, the lecture on the VMC will have something about this as well.

This issue has never been whether the MC is a great building or not. I think it's a great piece of architecture. This issue is finding a viable reuse of the building. It's not economically viable as a sports arena right across from another sports arena. It will either always struggle or compete in a way that hurts both buildings. I'm not in the camp that it needs to come down but I do believe that a new use needs to be found for it. I really don't know what that is. Maybe you float a steel structure inside and make that offices and keep the outside as is. Somewhere I saw someone suggest that it could make a really cool ice center to perhaps replace the rink at Lloyd Center. Some creativity is needed here.

It could become an indoor-outdoor park?! Make dirt bike amenities and skateboard amenities inside and climbing walls... Develop the land around it. It will forever stand and be widely used...

Registration for the VMC tour open on Event Brite.

That is cool, I never knew that. I wonder who owns the land now and why there hasn't been any new development there. It seems like it would be a great location for a series of residential towers that provide easy access to downtown.

I was curious about the same questions, and looked it up. The property is owned by Aegan Corp, which seems to be a company linked to Paul Allen. Even though it is zoned Central Commercial, the site has a scenic overlay, which limits the height to which it can be developed.

The riverfront property west of the colliseum is owned by Vulcan- Paul Allens development company. Over the years there have been studies to develop the property as offices and other mixed uses.

it was also the site of an epic party for the 2000 new years. I believe that was the last time the hotel was actually used before demolition.

It would be neat if that actually happened. Despite the height restrictions there, there could be some cool riverfront infill.

Calaroga Terrace
 

I would love to see if anyone could find renderings of the Coliseum Gardens from the mid-60s. Calaroga Terrace was the only building built from the ambitious project very similar to Portland Center.

...continues at the Oregonian.

Every major city would have flatten this piece of junk money pit years ago. They might as well keep it for a new arenas place until the NBA decides in 5 to 10 years the Moda Center is obsolete; when it is approaching the same age as the Coliseum was when the Rose Garden was built..

Here's a good takeaway from the article:

Current net loss for the city: $55,000/year (less than the cost of new speedbumps on my street).

Essential repairs and replacement

Cost: $35.1 million
Includes: New plumbing, refurbished seating and concourse, renovated bathrooms, a new roof and scoreboard, access improvements for people with disabilities
Annual events: 116
Annual attendance/paid: 371,200/173,900
Annual operating income: loss of $46,000
Annual income (ticket taxes/parking/capital reserve): loss of $100,000

-------------------

Typical of American cities is the deferred maintenance of infrastructure and assets while we let them slide into disrepair. Note also that the facility is managed by Paul Allen's Rip City Management - they have no incentive to actually schedule money-making events at MC, since they own the Moda Center next door... there is such a conflict of interest here its not even funny.

The winterhawks were going to spend their own money renovating the building in 2012, but because of the scandal, the city turned the money down.

So yeah, if you turn down money and let your buildings fall apart over the course of 50 years, of course it will be costly to renovate them into working order! Did the Federal Government just knock down the Edith Green – Wendell Wyatt Federal Building? Nope! They spent $150 million gutting it down and renovating it.

Yeah, that is my thought as well, the moment Allen threatens to move the Blazers to Seattle if he doesn't get a new arena is the moment bulldozers would show up at the Coliseum.

There is simply no need for this building. Winterhawk games are more enjoyable in the Moda Center anyway. Tear it down.

and put up what???

seriously it will be a vacant lot for years

nobody wants anything to do with that property--case closed.

Developers would have a field day if the coliseum was gone and the city opened up the land for redevelopment. Nobody wants anything to do with the coliseum, remove that, you've got desirable land.

My theory is that people will be arguing about how the coliseum is too important to tear down, and there will be failed attempts after failed attempts to find a purpose for the building until The Big One eventually strikes, at which point, it'll be rubble. And then, finally, the land can be put to use again.

Seriously... since the Blazers moved out two decades ago... how much money has been spent on attempts to repurpose Memorial Coliseum? Remember the plans years ago for an entertainment district?

I'm convinced this building is so mired in politics that people will be fighting to save it until an earthquake brings it down.

My fear about the Blazers is that if they someday start to talk about leaving, they'll get a better offer from somewhere else and leave, at which point, we'd be looking to repurpose the Moda Center too.

The blazers are a staple to this town. Rip city. Blazer mania. It's an identity that positively recognizes a city on a national and the way the game is going, world stage.

The city of Portland I'm sure will know all that and eventually work it out. I think the site is just stalling till the Rose Garden becomes obsolete. Which isn't much longer at most 5 years.

The Rose Garden/Moda is a fantastic facility. Blazers have invested tens of millions of dollars the past few years making dramatic improvements, as well as bringing in local food operators. Right now the trend in NBA arenas is to build seating for 17,500 to 19,000 spectators. The Moda originally held 21,000+ fans, which has been reduced over the years. There's absolutely no reason to build a new arena nor worry about them leaving as their iron-clad agreement with Portland requires them to stay in the city through 2023.

Well that site is stalling till 2023 then. It'll be nearly 30 years old by then. Which is ancient in arena terms..

I will side with the historians and architects who understand design quality, and what that means to our collective culture. personally, I think the MC is a gorgeous building and needs to be preserved. but I think we all need to listen to the experts about what should be preserved.

arguing about the lifespan of the Moda Center and when it will need to be replaced disgusts me on two primary levels:

1. the building and site design are horrific from an urban design standpoint. it could be anywhere, and has all the appearance of a suburban development. gross. if anything should be demolished it should be that. but...

1. that said, from a sustainability standpoint replacing it with something else because it's "out of date" is a symptom of why we, as a society, find ourselves in a predicament over too much carbon in the atmosphere (even if it is a shitty suburbanesque development). don't like something? tear it down and build something better. don't like the city? build big-ass freeways and drive your fat ass all over the place.

fuck that shit. time to face the music, America. just because you don't like something is not a reason to tear it down. repurpose, restore, re-something this and other built structures. there is value embedded in the MC. it's time to bring it out.