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-   -   CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87889)

Steely Dan Mar 29, 2018 7:35 PM

^ yeah, from my understanding, the plan is essentially to create two airports within the airport:

airport #1: T1, T2, & T3 for united & american and all of their star alliance & one world buddies (the main course airport).

airport #2: T5 for delta and skyteam, along with all other unaffiliated internationals and domestic LCCs (the leftovers airport).




in other news, according to a post over at airliners.net, today is the day that angled runway 15/33 (the old 14R/32L) is supposed to finally close at ORD.

this will leave the airport with its current 5 (eventually 6) east-west parallel runways, and the two NE-SW angled runways (4L/22R & 4R/22L).

btw, are there any other airports in the world with 6 parallel runways? i know many have 4, a few have 5, but i've never heard of 6 parallels. would ORD be the first?

chiphile Mar 30, 2018 4:22 AM

That terminal configuration in the latest rendering looks incredible and more in line with modern airport design. Still wish they went all the way west though with two additional concourses. That damn diagonal runway that receives 2% of landings still doesn’t make sense to me as it eliminates half of one of the new concourses.

I count approximately 194 gates in the rendering. Right now ohare has 182 gates. So this isn’t an expansion as much as a realignment of gates. At $8.5 billion, these 12 additional net gates must be the most expensive in history at $700 million each. Even if the rendering is a conservative estimation of gates, the total number likely won’t exceed 200-210. A welcome update to the terminal complex nevertheless. Maybe with full build out we see 85 to 90 million pax per year.

chiphile Mar 30, 2018 4:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomarandlee (Post 8135739)
I like to think myself a realist. Given that we aren't coastal gateway cities or part of attractive tourist-rich megalopolis/states/regions such as California/Florida/Northeast I think Chicago actually does reasonably well in pulling in overseas travelers. I would love numbers to be higher but I have to think if I was an overseas visitor Chicago would be listed on my 3rd or 4th U.S. trip to hit up from a tourist POV.

Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta are very close to Ohare in international passengers and may eventually pull ahead. I do not consider them peer cities in terms of global connections. Ohare should be at 15 million International pax and be ahead of SFO as it has always historically been ahead of SFO by a million or so international pax. If the 10-12 new gates are all international then that should make the difference.

k1052 Mar 30, 2018 1:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiphile (Post 8137862)
That terminal configuration in the latest rendering looks incredible and more in line with modern airport design. Still wish they went all the way west though with two additional concourses. That damn diagonal runway that receives 2% of landings still doesn’t make sense to me as it eliminates half of one of the new concourses.

I count approximately 194 gates in the rendering. Right now ohare has 182 gates. So this isn’t an expansion as much as a realignment of gates. At $8.5 billion, these 12 additional net gates must be the most expensive in history at $700 million each. Even if the rendering is a conservative estimation of gates, the total number likely won’t exceed 200-210. A welcome update to the terminal complex nevertheless. Maybe with full build out we see 85 to 90 million pax per year.

The two remaining diagonals will still be needed for certain wind conditions that exceed crosswind limits, although that's expected to be a very small percentage of time.

It's more gates than that, should meet the 220 figure when this phase is done. Don't take the renderings too literally. They show a ton of 4 engine aircraft too...

Kenmore Mar 30, 2018 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10023 (Post 8135440)
I’m surprised there’s no Houston-Lagos flight (oil).

p sure shell (hq in netherlands) dominates in nigeria

chiphile Mar 30, 2018 4:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8138005)
The two remaining diagonals will still be needed for certain wind conditions that exceed crosswind limits, although that's expected to be a very small percentage of time.

It's more gates than that, should meet the 220 figure when this phase is done. Don't take the renderings too literally. They show a ton of 4 engine aircraft too...

That rendering looks pretty good, it represents current parking layouts accurately. I agree it over estimates gates for jumbos at terminal 5 though, which will need more room for Delta and Spirit. That said I’d say we’re lucky if it tops out at 220 gates.

Keep that diagonal runway, just shorten that stub that is wiping out half an entire concourse. Heavy jets can handle crosswinds and only smaller regionals would ever have to use that runway, thus shortening is feasible, no?

Also, anyone know the economics of business case for an airline to build its own terminal rather than leasing gates? Didn’t jet blue build its own at JFK? No minimum usage demands by the city, exclusivity, architecture branding opportunity... wish united had a couple billion.

Kngkyle Mar 30, 2018 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiphile (Post 8138188)
Also, anyone know the economics of business case for an airline to build its own terminal rather than leasing gates? Didn’t jet blue build its own at JFK? No minimum usage demands by the city, exclusivity, architecture branding opportunity... wish united had a couple billion.

jetBlue basically had to build their own terminal at JFK if they wanted to have a hub at JFK. All the other carriers would riot and veto any plan that would put the cost of a new terminal for a competitor on their shoulders. You saw this happen in Chicago when the city was talking about building a Western terminal for low cost carriers. United, American, and Delta all got together and killed that idea. If a low cost carrier wanted to open a large hub at O'Hare they'd need to build their own terminal as well.

The reason this O'Hare plan works and is being funded not by the airlines themselves but by the airport passenger fees is because all of the carriers are getting something out of it. You saw the fit American threw when they believed it slightly favored United. Props to the city for threading the needle to get them all on board in the end.

NikolasM Mar 30, 2018 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steely Dan (Post 8137369)

btw, are there any other airports in the world with 6 parallel runways? i know many have 4, a few have 5, but i've never heard of 6 parallels. would ORD be the first?


I was going to say DFW but then remembered it is only 5 parallel. However all 7 runways there can be used simultaneously I believe. Denver might one day.

rl12383 Apr 10, 2018 1:57 PM

So, I am hearing the new L-stinger gates will open on April 16th.

Also, it seems the ATS upgrades are not going well. The original plan was for the CONRAC and ATS to open by the end of this year, but sounds like the CONRAC may open with bus service only, With the ATS extension completed sometime next year. City of Chicago document below as reference:

https://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...Associates.pdf

k1052 Apr 10, 2018 2:58 PM

I'd be interested to know how they could possibly be a year behind on the ATS extension. What happened?

N830MH Apr 10, 2018 5:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rl12383 (Post 8149020)
So, I am hearing the new L-stinger gates will open on April 16th.

Also, it seems the ATS upgrades are not going well. The original plan was for the CONRAC and ATS to open by the end of this year, but sounds like the CONRAC may open with bus service only, With the ATS extension completed sometime next year. City of Chicago document below as reference:

https://www.cityofchicago.org/conten...Associates.pdf

I don't understand why ATS extension is not done yet? They are not ready to open it up for this year.

As for L concourse extension, that's very good to hear. Hopefully they will open it up sometime in a few week or so.

N830MH Apr 24, 2018 2:26 AM

Finally!!! Both ORD & MDW now offer free unlimited wifi.

http://abc7chicago.com/travel/chicag...ernet/3378741/

It's long overdue!

eleven=11 Apr 24, 2018 6:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1052 (Post 8149094)
I'd be interested to know how they could possibly be a year behind on the ATS extension. What happened?

yeah WTF what up with that
also what about the elon musk tunnel thing?

spyguy Apr 24, 2018 8:17 PM

https://s17.postimg.cc/ys6qrhizj/304...76753369_o.jpg
https://s17.postimg.cc/oi4bs8le7/299...08577952_o.jpg
https://s17.postimg.cc/99eeegca7/299...69097280_o.jpg
https://s17.postimg.cc/4aqvzy3cf/308...06145227_o.jpg
All photos from F.H. Paschen

N830MH Apr 25, 2018 12:07 AM

Wow! Those pics looks great! Thank you so much for sharing this. I will be at ORD in June.

kbud Apr 26, 2018 4:36 PM

I guess no one will be connecting to Terminal 5 per the new signage. Seems like a miss.

trvlr70 Apr 26, 2018 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbud (Post 8168702)
I guess no one will be connecting to Terminal 5 per the new signage. Seems like a miss.

You're right! How foolish!

MayorOfChicago Apr 27, 2018 2:25 PM

Could it be because these are American and American international flies out of Terminal 3? Or do they fly some out of Terminal 5? I didn't think so.

They still certainly should have put signage up.

I know many times I've had my parents fly from Cedar Rapids to Chicago on United or American and then I have unrelated flights set up on Swiss or SAS or something when we go to Europe.

trvlr70 Apr 27, 2018 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MayorOfChicago (Post 8169679)
Could it be because these are American and American international flies out of Terminal 3? Or do they fly some out of Terminal 5? I didn't think so.

They still certainly should have put signage up.

I know many times I've had my parents fly from Cedar Rapids to Chicago on United or American and then I have unrelated flights set up on Swiss or SAS or something when we go to Europe.

No, it was a mistake. An AA flyer could be connecting to a code-shared British Airways flight that departs T5.

N830MH Apr 28, 2018 4:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trvlr70 (Post 8169709)
No, it was a mistake. An AA flyer could be connecting to a code-shared British Airways flight that departs T5.

Actually, they have to take on shuttle bus from T3 to T5. You can stay inside the sterile area. They don't have to leaves from security.


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