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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

elly63 Jun 2, 2023 1:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958468)
^ CBC Gem worked too. The point is that putting games on some obscure streaming service where you charge an extra X dollars to watch is hindering your league's growth in the long run. Maybe a league with an established, devoted following can get away with that, but for something like the CEBL you want as many eyeballs on the product as possible. I think the CPL could stand to take a lesson from how the CEBL is doing it.

I think you are actually describing TSN there. I am reading everyday about the levels of cable viewership falling devastatingly. There have been companies in the US getting out of the cable business altogether. The pandemic has changed everything. Before it, I was predicting a slow decline of cable against the protestations of a few with an agenda against cable to support their argument. None of us would know what the pandemic would bring, cable viewership is falling off a cliff. I used to think the TV numbers reflected people losing interest in the CFL, now I'm not so sure, those numbers seem to mirror the number of people who no longer have cable.

esquire Jun 2, 2023 2:23 PM

^ I guess there are ultimately degrees of accessibility. Being on OTA TV or a free streaming service like CBC Gem or YouTube provides the maximum potential amount of exposure, but being on a mainstream cable channel like TSN is still a huge amount of exposure in its own right... TSN bills itself as the #1 specialty cable channel, and you would have to imagine that its reach is massive among people who are sports fans and therefore likely to watch a basketball game on TV. Same with SN.

Niche paid streaming services that focus on a single league or even sport have the effect of locking away the product from casual viewers. But it's those casual viewers who might be enticed to buy tickets and attend in person, buy merchandise, etc. I'm not sure how the CEBL finagled such a good arrangement with TSN but I'm sure it will pay off as having their games on TV gives the league a relatively high profile which should translate into more credibility in general.

thurmas Jun 2, 2023 2:24 PM

I think for the next few years you need a blended approach of both. All in cable is as mentioned here is a dying industry however all in on streaming severely limits number of people who know easily where your product is.

elly63 Jun 2, 2023 3:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9959336)
I think for the next few years you need a blended approach of both. All in cable is as mentioned here is a dying industry however all in on streaming severely limits number of people who know easily where your product is.

Agreed, but as someone who has not had cable/satellite for most of their life and who has defended the viability of cable just a few short years ago, lemme tell ya, she's dying fast, much faster than anticipated.

Another Cable TV Company is Shutting Down its TV Service As Only 10% of Its Customers Pay For TV
Luke Bouma cordcutternews June 1, 2023

esquire Jun 2, 2023 3:54 PM

I don't doubt that cable's long term outlook is not good, but certainly at the moment, and at least for the short term it will continue to have a pretty significant presence. Certainly for sports fans. I would imagine that the majority of sports fans in Canada (the kind of person who watches at least a few live games a year) have TSN or SN.

TorontoDrew Jun 2, 2023 8:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958426)
Winnipeg's new CEBL team started up. They drew a good crowd to their home opener which they won, a lower bowl sellout at Canada Life Centre. I was there and it was a very exciting evening capped off with a win by the home team.

But what the CEBL is doing exceptionally well for a smaller pro league is getting their product out to a mass audience. They have a TSN game of the week, and all games are available on TSN+ (which I access through my smart TV so it's like watching anything else on TV, no computer or tablet fidgeting/casting required). The games are really well done, they have some well known broadcasters like Chuck Swirsky and Rod Black calling games. My son likes the CEBL so he puts the games to keep an eye on what's going on while he does other stuff. But wouldn't you know it, I often become intrigued by the action, and end up sitting down to watch.

Sometimes I wonder if smaller leagues get too captivated by the thought of some meager dollars that come their way with obscure streaming services (One Soccer, CHL TV, AHL TV, etc.) instead of chasing a broader audience through a mainstream broadcaster. There has to be a lot of value to the CEBL in having all their games available to anyone with a TSN subscription (which has to be the vast majority of speaking sports fans at least in English Canada, not sure what the RDS situation is). At the same time, good on TSN for giving that kind of exposure to a fledgling Canadian league.

https://lirp.cdn-website.com/8d6ff7b...C6102-640w.jpg



Cool! I think most Canadians don't know how exciting Basketball is to watch in person. It's probably on par with Hockey for me to see live.

ericmacm Jun 2, 2023 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9958426)
Winnipeg's new CEBL team started up. They drew a good crowd to their home opener which they won, a lower bowl sellout at Canada Life Centre. I was there and it was a very exciting evening capped off with a win by the home team.

But what the CEBL is doing exceptionally well for a smaller pro league is getting their product out to a mass audience. They have a TSN game of the week, and all games are available on TSN+ (which I access through my smart TV so it's like watching anything else on TV, no computer or tablet fidgeting/casting required). The games are really well done, they have some well known broadcasters like Chuck Swirsky and Rod Black calling games. My son likes the CEBL so he puts the games to keep an eye on what's going on while he does other stuff. But wouldn't you know it, I often become intrigued by the action, and end up sitting down to watch.

Sometimes I wonder if smaller leagues get too captivated by the thought of some meager dollars that come their way with obscure streaming services (One Soccer, CHL TV, AHL TV, etc.) instead of chasing a broader audience through a mainstream broadcaster. There has to be a lot of value to the CEBL in having all their games available to anyone with a TSN subscription (which has to be the vast majority of speaking sports fans at least in English Canada, not sure what the RDS situation is). At the same time, good on TSN for giving that kind of exposure to a fledgling Canadian league.

https://lirp.cdn-website.com/8d6ff7b...C6102-640w.jpg

Good for the Winnipeg Sea Bears and the CEBL. I still have my doubts about the long-term sustainability of the league, but it is starting off very strong and was able to weather some absolutely terrible years for sports, so it has plenty of hope yet. It’s also been really good to see that half the franchises now are owned by outside investors. Mainstream network exposure will help out a lot.

If they can secure any of the remaining Ontario teams from the NBLC, with at least the London Lightning and the Windsor Express (as they are the longest-lasting franchises), it will improve their product further. I really do believe that a regional approach will keep this league stable and allow it to grow instead of bleeding money on travel costs. It was disappointing to see the CEBL Growlers suspend operations so soon, but there was no way it was going to work. Introducing Atlantic Canada into the league at this point in time is not sustainable.

It has been good to see the western conference fill out with the new Calgary and Winnipeg teams. I am still skeptical of the stability of these teams given the larger travel distances (and therefore higher costs) involved in the western part of our country, but with two new teams, it already looks better. Filling in the distance gaps further with places like Kelowna and Regina should also help with stability in the future.

Denscity Jun 3, 2023 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9959416)
I don't doubt that cable's long term outlook is not good, but certainly at the moment, and at least for the short term it will continue to have a pretty significant presence. Certainly for sports fans. I would imagine that the majority of sports fans in Canada (the kind of person who watches at least a few live games a year) have TSN or SN.

Ya sports on the internet sucks. It’s embarrassing when you’ve got a bunch of people over for the “big game” and it cuts out a bunch of times.
People start to hit the exits.

elly63 Jun 3, 2023 1:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9959845)
Ya sports on the internet sucks. It’s embarrassing when you’ve got a bunch of people over for the “big game” and it cuts out a bunch of times. People start to hit the exits.

Are you on dialup or something?

Djeffery Jun 3, 2023 1:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericmacm (Post 9959754)

If they can secure any of the remaining Ontario teams from the NBLC, with at least the London Lightning and the Windsor Express (as they are the longest-lasting franchises), it will improve their product further. .

There is talk that the 4 remaining NLBC teams in Ontario are joining the new Super League

esquire Jun 3, 2023 4:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9959889)
There is talk that the 4 remaining NLBC teams in Ontario are joining the new Super League

Makes sense to me. It's clear that CEBL has won the war. At this point there's no logic in having two competing leagues anymore, to the extent that they compete. I wonder if Sudbury will be welcomed into the CEBL though? It's a pretty small and remote locale.

While we're on the topic, Teddy Buckets with the huge record-tying personal performance for the Sea Bears last night...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fxqs88UXgAAFqEF.png

Djeffery Jun 3, 2023 4:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9960132)
Makes sense to me. It's clear that CEBL has won the war. At this point there's no logic in having two competing leagues anymore, to the extent that they compete. I wonder if Sudbury will be welcomed into the CEBL though? It's a pretty small and remote locale.

From my understanding of the limited info that has come out, the NBLC will basically roll into the Super League, and will still compete with CEBL in the limited way NBLC currently does. Even the current commissioner of NBLC is talking about taking a roll within the Super League (which itself was started by a former NBLC commissioner)

Denscity Jun 3, 2023 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9959864)
Are you on dialup or something?

I’ve got cable actually.
A buddy of mine throws on the odd basketball game so I go over and we have to restart the feed of find a new one most times.

elly63 Jun 3, 2023 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9960386)
I’ve got cable actually.
A buddy of mine throws on the odd basketball game so I go over and we have to restart the feed of find a new one most times.

Are you talking about an illegal stream?

le calmar Jun 4, 2023 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9960386)
I’ve got cable actually.
A buddy of mine throws on the odd basketball game so I go over and we have to restart the feed of find a new one most times.

I knew you were a Raptors fan deep inside.

Denscity Jun 4, 2023 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by le calmar (Post 9960413)
I knew you were a Raptors fan deep inside.

Haha actually I'm not my favourite teams are in the same time zone and a lot closer in California. But buddy moved to Castlegar from Toronto and he cheers for them and I keep quiet lol.

thurmas Jun 4, 2023 8:24 PM

http://www.sportsbusinesssims.com/nhl-team-payrolls.htm

NHL Team Payrolls
1989-90 to 2003-04

https://crashingthegoalie.wordpress....ies-1987-1990/

SPORT – June, 1987

1. Wayne Gretzky – Oilers – $950,000 CDN – (converted to $717,250 USD)
2. Marcel Dionne – Rangers – $700,000
3. Mike Bossy – Islanders – $650,000
4. Bryan Trottier – Islanders – $625,000
5. Dave Taylor – Kings – $600,000
6. Mario Lemieux – Penguins – $550,000
5. Denis Potvin – Islanders – $550,000
8. Mike Liut – Whalers – $450,000
9. Rod Langway – Capitals – $400,000
10. Barry Pederson – Canucks – $350,000

SPORT – June, 1989

1. Gretzky – Kings – $2 million
2. Lemieux – Penguins – $1.5 million
3. Trottier – Islanders – $950,000
4. Taylor – Kings – $700,000
5. Dionne – Rangers – $600,000
6. Liut – Whalers – $550,000
7. Goulet – Nordiques – $510,000
8. Messier – Oilers – $510,000
9. Savard – Blackhawks – $500,000
10. Coffey – Penguins – $485,000
11. Duguay – Kings – $475,000
12. Hawerchuk – Jets – $467,500
13. Stastny – Nordiques – $446,250
14. Carpenter – Bruins – $425,000
15. LaFontaine – Islanders – $425,000
16. Gustafsson – Capitals – $410,000
17. Stevens -Capitals – $400,000
18. Pederson – Canucks – $400,000
19. Bourque – Bruins – $380,000
20. Fuhr – Oilers – $340,000
20. Robinson – Canadiens – $340,000

manny_santos Jun 4, 2023 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elly63 (Post 9959299)
I think you are actually describing TSN there. I am reading everyday about the levels of cable viewership falling devastatingly. There have been companies in the US getting out of the cable business altogether. The pandemic has changed everything. Before it, I was predicting a slow decline of cable against the protestations of a few with an agenda against cable to support their argument. None of us would know what the pandemic would bring, cable viewership is falling off a cliff. I used to think the TV numbers reflected people losing interest in the CFL, now I'm not so sure, those numbers seem to mirror the number of people who no longer have cable.

I was surprised to find out that the Stanley Cup final is exclusively on cable in the US this year, for the first time in 30 years. All the games are on TNT, so no games will be shown on ABC.

That seems counterproductive these days.

gattaca Jun 5, 2023 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9959332)
^ I guess there are ultimately degrees of accessibility. Being on OTA TV or a free streaming service like CBC Gem or YouTube provides the maximum potential amount of exposure, but being on a mainstream cable channel like TSN is still a huge amount of exposure in its own right... TSN bills itself as the #1 specialty cable channel, and you would have to imagine that its reach is massive among people who are sports fans and therefore likely to watch a basketball game on TV. Same with SN.

Niche paid streaming services that focus on a single league or even sport have the effect of locking away the product from casual viewers. But it's those casual viewers who might be enticed to buy tickets and attend in person, buy merchandise, etc. I'm not sure how the CEBL finagled such a good arrangement with TSN but I'm sure it will pay off as having their games on TV gives the league a relatively high profile which should translate into more credibility in general.


CEBL is getting $0 from TSN and paying for production costs. Canada Soccer had similar deal with TSN/SN for 30 years which didn't grow the game to any degree, cost them $1 million/yr and TSN/SN didn't show about 50% of the matches.

Despite CEBL being on CBC for the past few years, CPL has 2-100x higher social media engagement across platforms such as twitter, youtube & reddit.

Now with Cdn households dropping linear tv subs by 40% in the past decade, the pentration rate has dropped below 50%. It now also skews >55 age group which isn't core audience that will grow soccer in Canada. Soccer demos are also the most likely group of sports fans to stream since paid linear tv never provided adequate coverage. It's why there are about 6 sports streamers in Canada focused on the sport.

MLS 1.0 showed catering to casuals or soccer moms didn't work (again) for a North American soccer league. They don't attend enough matches to matter and don't buy kits every year.

It's only when they shifted to focusing on existing footy followers including Hispanics that their growth grew materially. And as seen by their Apple TV deal, casuals still don't watch MLS to any large degree but the league has expanded 2x since TFC came into the league.

esquire Jun 5, 2023 6:41 PM

^ So where are the results, then? Speaking from my local experience, the CEBL team just showed up in Winnipeg and they have blown away Valour FC in terms of building a profile. There has only been one Sea Bears home game and my son and I can already easily name more Sea Bears players than Valour players. Sea Bears get some discussion time in the paper and on the local sports shows as compared to Valour, which seldom does. Valour did reasonably well in their first season but they have fizzled since then... they are probably roughly on par with the Winnipeg Goldeyes in terms of the mindshare they have among local sports fans. I say this as someone who would like to see the club thrive, but they seem to exist in their own little bubble.

I find it hard to believe that the exposure provided by cable TV doesn't play into this situation.


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