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Paintballer1708 Jun 22, 2006 3:18 PM

Its good to see all the new downtown residential development. There are alot of plans that i like. I think this will start a trend and the city's population will start growing. The downtown population has been growing already at a rate of about 32% since 2000. I cant wait for The Avenue District to begin.

Paintballer1708 Jun 23, 2006 2:29 AM

The city of Cleveland wants to move the Coast Guard, Naval Reserve, and Army Corps of Engineers to a new location and add more attractions to the east side of E. 9th St. The mayor has rather singlehandedly picked VOA's (who designed Chicago's Navy Pier) proposed design, and has tied this $200 million plan to a $560 million convention center. He wants the public to vote on the plans, but has kept City Council in the dark, making the chances of a smooth adoption very slim. Another view. Plans are also underway to restore the old Euclid Beach Carousel, and place it in a new building at North Coast Harbor, just north of the Rock Hall, near Voinovich Park. The building has been designed by van Dijk Pace Westlake Architects, although the design review committee wants the building to be a bit more playful. Cleveland Tomorrow still has to raise the $5 million needed for the carousel. Tickets are expected to cost $1 or $2, and there will be a gift shop and snack bar open to the public. Construction of the carousel is planned to start in the summer of 2001.

Paintballer1708 Jun 23, 2006 2:31 AM

This is what that planned looked like. I wonder why it never got built? There would have to be some explanation.

MayDay Jun 23, 2006 2:09 PM

Of course there's an explanation. The biggest reason it never materialized was a lack of funding. Also, it didn't help that the city had recently built Cleveland Browns Stadium at taxpayers' expense and the mayor wanted to add yet another mega-project.

At that time, Mayor Michael White was basically trying to strong-arm City Council into supporting this project which was doomed from the beginning. City Council wisely resisted the mayor's plans because the city was in no position to create a Navy Pier-like amusement park on the lakefront in addition to a new convention center. Cleveland residents were rightfully infuriated by cost overruns at Cleveland Browns Stadium and foisting this on them was a stupid idea to begin with. $5 million dollars would do wonders for the city's neighborhoods but Mike White wanted to plunk it into a lakefront carousel. Remember, Mike White hired people to his Cabinet that had questionable "degrees" from online universities and his bookkeeping was an absolute mess.

wrab Jun 23, 2006 2:38 PM

Yeah - the new Browns Stadium was never more than a hasty, cheaply-built political solution for White (and looks it, too!) The roof proposal promises at least a partial redemption.

RE: ValleyView Homes demolition - I hope that somebody, somewhere along the line, managed to salvage the way-cool (terra cotta?) mural that adorned the main entrance. I used to live not far from there, and swore that I would pick through the rubble myself if need be should the wrecking ball hit it. Not sorry to see the complex gone, though - it was a deceptively wicked place for something so low scale.

I didn't realize that the Flats East development was to be achieved through eminent domain; when is the state legislature going to act on abolishing the use of this old chestnut for the gain of commercial developers (and BTW, whatever became of Lakewood's lame-brained eminent domain scheme?)

MayDay, once again, the Cleveland rundown looks great - thanks for the good work!

MayDay Jun 23, 2006 5:27 PM

"RE: ValleyView Homes demolition - I hope that somebody, somewhere along the line, managed to salvage the way-cool (terra cotta?) mural that adorned the main entrance. I used to live not far from there, and swore that I would pick through the rubble myself if need be should the wrecking ball hit it. Not sorry to see the complex gone, though - it was a deceptively wicked place for something so low scale."

Yes, the mural was saved - you'd be amazed just how many people were concerned about that.


"The Valleyview Homes Estate was opened in 1940 and is located in the historic Tremont neighborhood of the city of Cleveland. The original Valleyview Homes Estate contained a total of 582 residential units, a community center/office complex, and a boiler house and was constructed at a total cost of $3,503,539.00. Over the past 20 years, a total of 339 units have been demolished due to deteriorated conditions and in order to make way for I-490.
Valleyview Homes Estate also benefited from the Ohio Art Program, which was a part of the WPA’s Federal Art Project, a depression-era program to provide outlets for artists’ work, particularly in decorating public buildings. On the wall of the Community Center was a terra-cotta mural of the project designed by W. LeRoy Flint and executed by Henry Olmer. In addition, Henry Keto made 24 ceramic tiles depicting the history of the Tremont area. Three large canvas murals were installed at Valleyview, (i.e., one in Management office and two in the Community Building) two of which were by Elmer Brown, an African American artist from Cleveland Ohio and one by Louis Grebenak, another local artist. Cast stone animals were also created and used as play sculptures in Valleyview.
CMHA removed and safely stored all of the WPA-era artwork to be utilized in the future redevelopment of this site."

As far as the Flats East Bank - the property owners have not only sat on their parcels and let them rot, they've asked for tax de-valuations in the past. Suddenly, they're throwing a fit because Wolstein (the developer) is offering them less money than they think their properties are worth. If I recall correctly, cities can enact eminent domain for private developments due to a recent Supreme Court ruling. I'm not saying it's the best way to go about it, but I'd rather see something done with the site - and the current owners have done nothing.

The Lakewood eminent domain case fizzled - that was a much different scenario. The developer there had proposed using eminent domain on a functioning middle-class neighborhood (whereas Flats East Bank is all but abandoned, it just needs tumbleweeds). Since then, Lakewood has had some great projects come into the pipeline - all without using eminent domain.

Edgewater Jun 26, 2006 11:32 PM

Cleveland Browns Stadium - the worst thing to happen to the lakefront since they built the Shoreway. I don't care if the land was already city owned but they wasted an opportunity to take back the lakefront for other uses.

Don't forget the other failed proposal of moving the Crawford Auto Aviation Museum to North Coast Harbor from University Circle. That could have been a boost to the area.

RedCoat999 Jun 30, 2006 2:25 PM

Update on the Flats project, two more agreements apparently made:

zaceman Jul 2, 2006 9:53 PM

hmm in that photo of North Coast Harbor on Navy Pier Steroids i wonder if the ferry terminal building will look like that when(if) it gets built

zaceman Jul 6, 2006 12:33 AM

West Side Sun News
July 6, 2006

Stark’s downtown plans are gaining momentum
By Ken Prendergast
Staff Writer

Add two more big names within development circles to Bob Stark’s big plans for revitalizing downtown Cleveland.

Agreeing to build in accordance with Stark’s master plan is Rustom Khouri, president of Westlake-based Carnegie Management & Development Co., and property owner James Kassouf, often a partner of Khouri’s.

Although the agreement’s paperwork hasn’t been finalized, the tentative deal would have Carnegie build a mixture of housing, offices and retail on 10 acres of land Kassouf owns, mostly in the Warehouse District. Much of that land is surface parking, including a 9-acre strip south of the lakefront railroad tracks, between West 3rd Street and the Cuyahoga River.

Stark proposes working with multiple developers and downtown property owners, including the Cleveland-Cuyahoga County Port Authority, to build 1 million square feet of retail topped by 6 million square feet of mixed residential and office space.

The master plan includes developing within a street grid extended northward from the Warehouse District to the lake. Port authority officials said they are eager to get downtown port operations out of the way by gradually moving them to an island planned west of the Cuyahoga River’s mouth.

The Khouri-Kassouf agreement is similar to one Stark recently signed with Tony Asher, owner of 8 acres of Warehouse District land west of West 3rd, between St. Clair and Superior avenues. Stark said he hopes to open in 2009 the first buildings on Asher’s land, long occupied by drab, but profitable parking lots.

“The collaboration keeps growing,” Stark said. “I keep putting together the team. These people are not only property owners, but savvy business people.”

Khouri’s firm has a nationwide resume of building housing, retail and offices, including the kind of high-density, mixed uses Stark has in mind for downtown.

Khouri said he shares Stark’s belief that developers need to think bigger than merely “filling gaps” in the downtown landscape. Past projects, like the $400 million, 380,000-square-foot Tower City Center, which has struggled since it opened in 1990, weren’t big enough to change downtown’s dynamics, he said.

“You need to get over the million-square-foot threshold,” Khouri explained. “The reason is it has the density and drawing power for mixed-use tenants to coexist. Bob’s is probably the best project to date to revive downtown. I’m 100 percent behind Bob’s project.”

For his part of Stark’s plan, Khouri proposes building 500,000 to 600,000 square feet of mixed residential, offices and retail. He said he wasn’t ready yet to discuss a possible construction timeline.

Development plans are starting to run into each other, however. The port authority is seeking to take by eminent domain several acres of Kassouf’s land for the Wolstein Group’s planned Flats East Bank neighborhood. As long as Kassouf owns the property, he said he and Khouri will press ahead with their own plans.

Stark is pitching his downtown master plan to potential investors, most recently a large group of financiers June 29 at Key Tower. Attending to support Stark were Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson’s Chief of Governmental Affairs Valerie McCall, port authority board Chairman John Carney and Councilman Joe Cimperman whose Ward 13 includes downtown.

“It was an amazing meeting,” Cimperman said. “The support was huge. It (Stark’s master plan) has got so much good, positive momentum.”

Stark said he continues to seek development agreements to gain site control for his first phase, notably with Los Angeles-based investor Duane Cameron, owner of 2 acres of parking lots southeast of the West 9th-St. Clair intersection. Cameron could not be reached for comment.

More landowners are likely to be approached soon. Stark said one of those is John Coyne, whose family has a 3-acre parking lot north of the Shoreway near West 6th. Coyne attended some of Stark’s presentations.

“We own some property that, at some point, I imagine Bob Stark might want to talk to me about,” Coyne said. “But I’m waiting and seeing. In spirit, I support what he’s trying to do. But I’m way down the totem pole.”


also some interesting news (cross-posted on

Paintballer1708 Jul 7, 2006 2:44 PM

Are there any new highrise plans for Cleveland? I would like to see some new skyscrappers being built to fill in some of Cleveland's skyline. IMO i think it is to spaced out.

MayDay Jul 7, 2006 2:47 PM

All new proposals/projects are listed on the first page. Right now, the tallest proposal is the 515 Euclid tower.

zaceman Jul 11, 2006 12:40 PM

the battery park video rendering of the neighborhood when its complete.

looks a lot better than i thought sans the sterile video game lawns...

Paintballer1708 Jul 12, 2006 4:08 AM

I cant wait till Batter Park is finished. That would be a nice place to call home, right there on the lakefront, not too far from downtown.

MayDay Jul 14, 2006 6:42 PM

Updated July 15. Added The Cliffs project in Lakewood; Lola Bistro; updated Battery Park, Stonebridge Plaza.

Paintballer1708 Jul 15, 2006 3:51 AM

StoneBridge Plaza is really coming along nicely.

Paintballer1708 Jul 22, 2006 8:49 PM

MayDay, that picture you posted in the Building and Architecture thread of 515 Euclid of the garage was awesome. It seems that tower is really coming along nicely.

zaceman Jul 23, 2006 1:30 AM

I wonder when they're gonna get started on it, after euclid corridor??

this is from their website,168/

Type: Mixed-Use
Project Name: 515 Euclid Avenue Parking Garage & Tower
City: Cleveland
State: OH
Client: Ohio Savings Bank

Features: 524-car spaces on seven supported levels plus grade with 11,000 sq. ft. of ground level commercial/retail space, 20,000 sq. ft. ballroom and 240 residential units.

Description: The 515 Euclid Building is situated on the northwest corner of East 6th Street and Euclid Avenue. It is a mixed-use development designed to house 524 parking spaces beneath a 240 unit high rise, luxury condominium tower. It will also contain a 20,000 square foot ballroom and 11,000 square feet of grade level commercial retail. The urban site has dictated an architectural solution conducive of a downtown office building. The structural framing system is cast-in-place concrete with a combination of glass and cast stone panels as the architectural facade material. The pictures above show the completion of the 524 space parking garage and the rendering on the right shows the next phase of this project, a 19-story vertical condominium addition.

DESMAN is the prime Architect and Structural Engineer of Record and Parking Consultant. Richard Fleischman Architects are the Design Architects.

Paintballer1708 Jul 23, 2006 3:16 AM

^Thanks, Zaceman. Now i get a better idea of what the tower is really about. I never really understood what they were doing with it.

lauderdalegator Jul 23, 2006 3:30 AM


Originally Posted by the pope

whereabouts from cleveland

oh, and i heart gothic

Whoops, I haven't checked this forum in a while. I Grew up in Cleveland Heights on East Overlook Rd. Right across from Cain Park. I have grandparents in Bratenahl and family in Twinsburg, Solon and Akron.

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