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-   -   Saskatoon Freeway (Proposed) (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=240985)

Dengler Avenue Nov 16, 2019 5:17 PM

Saskatoon Freeway (Proposed)
 
The full study’s here: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...riefing-1.html. Credits to Wyku for sharing the link.

Lately there’s been some fuzz about the proposed new ring road around Saskatoon. Any thoughts, updates, just jot them down here. :)

craner Nov 16, 2019 6:16 PM

Well ... Regina has the bi-pass now so why not Saskatoon ?
I would be excited to see it built.

Dengler Avenue Nov 16, 2019 8:04 PM

The idea of going through the swale really turns me off this time though. I need to carefully go through all the pictures to see what amends can be made.

djforsberg Nov 16, 2019 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craner (Post 8750486)
Well ... Regina has the bi-pass now so why not Saskatoon ?
I would be excited to see it built.

Because, like Regina’s, it would be a costly mistake to do in a province hard up for cash as it is? Because of the swale, I would say it would be even more costly than Regina’s.

Corndogger Nov 16, 2019 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8750556)
The idea of going through the swale really turns me off this time though. I need to carefully go through all the pictures to see what amends can be made.

Doesn't I-75 go through the Everglades? Going through this swale area should be easy by comparison.

Dengler Avenue Nov 16, 2019 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger (Post 8750697)
Doesn't I-75 go through the Everglades? Going through this swale area should be easy by comparison.

It does. In fact, some of the freeways in Ontario go through wetlands too. It doesn’t mean that’s the right thing to do though. :( Like I said, I need to take a look at all the pictures first.

Corndogger Nov 16, 2019 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8750701)
It does. In fact, some of the freeways in Ontario go through wetlands too. It doesn’t mean that’s the right thing to do though. :( Like I said, I need to take a look at all the pictures first.

My point is that it can be done without causing damage. There are plenty of examples of such roads.

Dengler Avenue Nov 16, 2019 11:48 PM

I was just reading this (which was from the 90’s): https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sun-...story,amp.html.

I guess it’s possible. We’ll see.

jigglysquishy Nov 17, 2019 1:50 PM

Don't want it. Don't need it. The Saskatoon Freeway, along with the Regina Bypass, are F tier stupidity.

A diagusting and shameful waste of money.

djforsberg Nov 17, 2019 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corndogger (Post 8750703)
My point is that it can be done without causing damage. There are plenty of examples of such roads.

You really think a highway in Florida, a state that has banned the use of the phrase “climate change”, didn’t cause ecological damage?

Pinus Nov 17, 2019 3:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djforsberg (Post 8750954)
You really think a highway in Florida, a state that has banned the use of the phrase “climate change”, didn’t cause ecological damage?

Wow. They actually ban that term, as well as "global warming".

And yet so many Canadians still want to strive to be like 'Murca :(

Dengler Avenue Nov 17, 2019 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinus (Post 8750985)
Wow. They actually ban that term, as well as "global warming".

And yet so many Canadians still want to strive to be like 'Murca :(

I was a bit skeptical too. :shrug:

Dengler Avenue Nov 18, 2019 3:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy (Post 8750943)
Don't want it. Don't need it. The Saskatoon Freeway, along with the Regina Bypass, are F tier stupidity.

A diagusting and shameful waste of money.

I partly agree. It's no less important to put money towards education, health care and other modes of transportation. Good work on one of the BRT routes (not so much the other one because there will be no dedicated bus lanes).

Keeping the flow of goods uninterrupted is also important though. I'm guessing Saskatoon has grown to the point that Circle Drive's no longer cutting it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there are 2 major trade corridors crossing Saskatoon - the 11 from Prince Albert to Regina (then to the states via 6 & 39, which is another topic), and the 16 across the Prairies. If MHI wanna keep goods flowing well on both routes, what's a good (if not the best) way to do it? A ring from Yellowhead west to Yellowhead east. (I don't think the southeastern portion of the ring is needed - eliminating the at-grade intersections on the Yellowhead and upgrading the 11/16 interchange in the south-end will do.)

=====

Seriously though, alternative 4? That's like giving commuters from Martensville and Warman a big middle finger. Just because we will have a ring road, it doesn't mean we can now revert the roads leading in and out of the city back to 2 lanes. If anything, we need to have an overpass over 71st Street then an interchange with Marquis Drive. The same applies to Highway 16 west as well.

As for the Swale issue, I think MHI should just tunnel that section of the outer ring road to preserve it.

Link: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf

Wyku Nov 18, 2019 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8751417)
Seriously though, alternative 4? That's like giving commuters from Martensville and Warman a big middle finger. Just because we will have a ring road, it doesn't mean we can now revert the roads leading in and out of the city back to 2 lanes. If anything, we need to have an overpass over 71st Street then an interchange with Marquis Drive. The same applies to Highway 16 west as well.

The way they're so heavily weighting the Wanuskewin Rd. connection is really baffling--what was it, 52% of traffic flows that way? So lets just ignore the other 48% that doesn't? I don't get the desire to pair down the Idylwyld 4-lane connections to 2-lanes either--besides destroying the Highway 11 traffic flow, everyone coming into/out of the city on the #12 (which there is already a lot of and would only be more by the time this thing is build, if ever) no longer will with the freeway in place or something? It would go from a 4-lane highway to a 2-lane overpass to a 4-lane freeway... :koko:

The Bess Nov 18, 2019 4:29 PM

Not really ring road news but same pile

https://thestarphoenix.com/news/loca...ortheast-swale

Pardot Kynes Nov 24, 2019 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8750440)
The full study’s here: https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...riefing-1.html. Credits to Wyku for sharing the link.

Lately there’s been some fuzz about the proposed new ring road around Saskatoon. Any thoughts, updates, just jot them down here. :)

That study only looks at routing options for the freeway. There is no information on when the freeway might actually be needed, or if it is even the most effective solution.

Dengler Avenue Nov 24, 2019 10:58 PM

Even if not now, we will need it later, so it’s probably good to at least reserve the ROW right now. Otherwise, the city grows too big, and the cheapest option will be to actually demolish every single property abutting Circle Drive and converting it to a real freeway. I mean, personally I’m not against this option.

Corndogger Nov 25, 2019 4:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8757756)
Even if not now, we will need it later, so it’s probably good to at least reserve the ROW right now. Otherwise, the city grows too big, and the cheapest option will be to actually demolish every single property abutting Circle Drive and converting it to a real freeway. I mean, personally I’m not against this option.

Reserving the ROW now is a no-brainer. The large TUCs (transportation utility corridors) that the Alberta government setup around Edmonton and Calgary decades ago have helped immensely in minimizing expropriation costs for the 216 and 201, respectively.

Dengler Avenue Jan 22, 2020 6:37 PM

Quote:

Some updates on proposed Saskatoon Freeway

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/phase-1/
Reposted from the New Interchange/Bypass Thread, comments by The Bess

Dengler Avenue Jan 30, 2020 12:42 PM

I was looking at Google Maps Satellite View and chanced upon U.S. Route 6 through Omaha, NE. From the looks of it, it used to run at-grade between NE 120th Street and I-680 as W Dodge Road. Then NEDOT built viaducts over the at-grade portion so U.S. Route 6 can be completely free-flowing from the west end of Omaha to I-680. With that in mind, why not do something like that to address the at-grade intersections on the western portion of Circle Drive? There may seem to be little space around the interchange with Louis Riel Trail North and Yellowhead Highway West but that’s how engineering marvels are born. After that, interchanges at Marquis Drive and at Highway 394 will just be a child’s play.

Spocket Jan 30, 2020 4:20 PM

I completely don't understand the logic with this freeway. Putting aside whether or not somebody thinks it's a waste of money, is unnecessary or whatever, why doesn't it directly connect highways 11 and 16? The entire southwest section of the freeway doesn't seem to be in the plans but wouldn't that be just about the busiest section? Am I wrong about that?

Given that I'm not a Saskatoon native and haven't been there in decades, I'm completely out of touch with the rationale here but that just seems so counterintuitive. I would have thought the busiest highways would have been 11 and 16. Is that not the case? I mean, outside of the Saskatoon metro region of course. Considering that the idea is that ring roads are supposed to funnel traffic around a city rather than through it, wouldn't it be the most logical route from 11 northwest to 16 as the shortest route? I know the land through this area isn't good for residential construction and was pegged for industrial but that can't be the main reason this section isn't being considered...or is it?

Arts Jan 30, 2020 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8815733)
...With that in mind, why not do something like that to address the at-grade intersections on the western portion of Circle Drive?

Money. I'm sure it is on the very long term radar but is WAY down the priority list. These three locations (Airport, Laurier, and Clancy) don't even have enough traffic to really justify the cost of grade separation, and I'm actually surprised the Laurier one hasn't been made RIRO (Right-in, Right-out only) by now.

Dengler Avenue Jan 30, 2020 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arts (Post 8816087)
Money. I'm sure it is on the very long term radar but is WAY down the priority list. These three locations (Airport, Laurier, and Clancy) don't even have enough traffic to really justify the cost of grade separation, and I'm actually surprised the Laurier one hasn't been made RIRO (Right-in, Right-out only) by now.

I’m not too concerned about those 3 actually,l because there’s plenty of ROW. If anything, IMO access from Laurier and Clancy should just be closed. The part that I’m really concerned about is from Airport to Louis Riel. This is where I think that nothing short of overpasses atop the current alignment will cut it. I won’t even bother with the eastern portion because it’s too built up.

Also, who’s able to answer Spocket’s question?

Edit: Never mind, Clancy can’t be closed, but replaced with access to and from service roads.

Crisis Jan 30, 2020 8:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spocket (Post 8815905)
I completely don't understand the logic with this freeway. Putting aside whether or not somebody thinks it's a waste of money, is unnecessary or whatever, why doesn't it directly connect highways 11 and 16? The entire southwest section of the freeway doesn't seem to be in the plans but wouldn't that be just about the busiest section? Am I wrong about that?

Given that I'm not a Saskatoon native and haven't been there in decades, I'm completely out of touch with the rationale here but that just seems so counterintuitive. I would have thought the busiest highways would have been 11 and 16. Is that not the case? I mean, outside of the Saskatoon metro region of course. Considering that the idea is that ring roads are supposed to funnel traffic around a city rather than through it, wouldn't it be the most logical route from 11 northwest to 16 as the shortest route? I know the land through this area isn't good for residential construction and was pegged for industrial but that can't be the main reason this section isn't being considered...or is it?

I thought this was simply a nod to our historic ass-backwards method of freeway development in these parts. For approximately 20 years Circle Drive was just 3/4 of a circle, as it was missing that same S-E quadrant of the circle. At that time, I believe the argument was that there is little traffic coming from the south of Saskatoon on Highway 11 and then heading west along Highways 7 & 14 (and vice versa) and that was probably true. Any traffic headed that direction from Regina would have likely turned west on Highway 15 at Kenaston. For traffic along the Regina-Edmonton route (hwys 11 & 16), the key connection was the intersection of Circle Drive and Idylwyld Drive so a south bridge and completion of the circle wouldn't really change that as there was no plan to run the western part of Circle Drive all the way up to Highway 16.

Now that we're looking at a Perimeter Highway situation, I agree that a roadway crossing the river and skirting the south and west sides of Saskatoon would be far more efficient for movement of commercial traffic along that corridor. My guess for the once-again missing part of the circle is that there is likely a great deal of traffic (but not heavy truck traffic) travelling from south/east Saskatoon to Martensviille, Warman and Prince Albert and the southeast part of a Perimeter highway does nothing to aid that traffic flow. That's my only guess as to why that key portion would be omitted.

I would have hoped that we would have learned from our decades-delayed completion of Circle Drive, but apparently not.

Arts Jan 31, 2020 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8816107)
I’m not too concerned about those 3 actually,l because there’s plenty of ROW. If anything, IMO access from Laurier and Clancy should just be closed. The part that I’m really concerned about is from Airport to Louis Riel. This is where I think that nothing short of overpasses atop the current alignment will cut it. I won’t even bother with the eastern portion because it’s too built up.

Also, who’s able to answer Spocket’s question?

Edit: Never mind, Clancy can’t be closed, but replaced with access to and from service roads.

Oh I thought by "western portion" you were referring to that stretch between 11th St and Ave C... yes I agree with you that Circle Dr at Idylwyld/Louis Riel Trail and the surrounding area is a clusterf*ck. A few years ago there was talk of the city re-jigging the overpass to be a single-point interchange (SPI) or diverging-diamond interchange which would help alleviate the problems getting through. I'm sure it's near the top of the priority list still.

The whole Circle Dr N, between Ave C to Millar is a mess. When they get around to making some changes I think it would beneficial if the city also closed off, or made RIRO at Circle & Alberta/Northridge... Faithful and Quebec intersections also pose a challenge, and of course Millar ave is going to be an expensive fix when the city eventually decides to separate the grade there. A service road could work there some day but would require appropriation of land and removal of some existing buildings, but could allow for better grade separation and allow Circle to be the freeway it was always meant to be.

The Bess Jun 13, 2020 4:16 PM

sorry Dengler here you go thought it was called Saskatoon freeway so overlooked this thread

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/phase-1/

Dengler Avenue Jun 13, 2020 4:25 PM

Oh yea I saw. Thanks. I even downloaded the pdf’s of the 3 major interchanges.

asdfgh Jun 15, 2020 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bess (Post 8950666)
sorry Dengler here you go thought it was called Saskatoon freeway so overlooked this thread

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/phase-1/

It is called the Saskatoon Freeway. Maybe the title of this thread could be updated to call it that?

I still prefer calling it the Saskatoon Bypass (in tribute to the bungled Regina Bypass), but it does appear that the name is the Saskatoon Freeway.

Dengler Avenue Jun 15, 2020 2:53 PM

Of all things, the name of a thread is something that I can’t change...

Corndogger Jun 15, 2020 9:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8952051)
Of all things, the name of a thread is something that I can’t change...

Do you need a power upgrade?

Dengler Avenue Jun 15, 2020 11:28 PM

Nah thanks, too busy to moderate forums at this moment.
You see? On #1, I can change the title of the post but not the name of the thread...

Corndogger Jun 16, 2020 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue (Post 8952654)
Nah thanks, too busy to moderate forums at this moment.
You see? On #1, I can change the title of the post but not the name of the thread...

I just meant the power to change the name of thread you created. I'm surprised that creators of threads can't do that.

ToonTownRob Jun 26, 2020 7:29 AM

The reason why there is no connection planned across the south section of the Saskatoon Freeway is because they can’t get the land to put it through. The entire area has been filled up with acreage homes, and between them and golf courses and parks, there isn’t a place to put it through where very vocal people with LOTS of money wouldn’t be screaming bloody murder. The province tried to come up with a route through there and ran into so much pushback they gave up.

Heaviest traffic that will use this most? Regina and Yorkton highways to North Battleford in both directions. Then to PA next. Rosetown after that. Humboldt, Biggar, Blaine Lake far behind.

SouthEast to SouthWest and vice versa just doesn’t have much demand.

Going around and across the river on one side is all that’s needed. It doesn’t increase distance much to leave one Hugely expensive quarter out of it that would be used by fewest amount of drivers.

Crisis Jun 26, 2020 1:48 PM

^^^^^ Good points, Rob. That missing section would really only benefit traffic between the Yorkton stretch of the Yellowhead and Highway 7 to Rosetown. Traffic from Regina wanting to head towards Rosetown would just use Highway 15 straight west through Outlook. It’s just the thought of an incomplete circle that seems wrong.

ToonTownRob Jul 4, 2020 4:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crisis (Post 8963624)
^^^^^ Good points, Rob. That missing section would really only benefit traffic between the Yorkton stretch of the Yellowhead and Highway 7 to Rosetown. Traffic from Regina wanting to head towards Rosetown would just use Highway 15 straight west through Outlook. It’s just the thought of an incomplete circle that seems wrong.

We just need to stop thinking of this in terms of it being a circle, but as Saskatonians, circular drives, whether complete or not, are always on the brain!

The Bess Sep 29, 2020 3:35 PM

here is link to some bridge crossings for Saskatoon Freeway

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/river-crossing/

prairieguy Sep 29, 2020 3:57 PM

Not that I am a great proponent of the "saskatoon freeway extention"...IF they are to build another bridge as part of the project, I do hope it is the 'suspension' type design one.

I am still very concerned about the North Swale and the impact that the current north bridge and any future bridge further north has on that. It may not be exciting or "sexy" species that exist in this rare ecosystem, but that doesn't mean they are not worth trying to protect.

My "green" rant for the day

Wyku Sep 29, 2020 5:24 PM

They should just go all in like China and build a replica Tower Bridge as a tourist attraction... :haha:

YXE Sep 29, 2020 7:37 PM

Here's to hoping they build the suspended version sometime before 2050.

Dengler Avenue Sep 29, 2020 7:38 PM

Is Moe going to use this to jump start the economy?

Corndogger Sep 29, 2020 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YXE (Post 9058190)
Here's to hoping they build the suspended version sometime before 2050.

That would be cool but they'll probably stick to the girder option.

What are the other two options they're considering? The four photos they posted look like two different views of two of the options.

The Bess Sep 30, 2020 2:41 PM

If you read a little farther down it tells the criteria that was used on the four designs which was then further reduced to the two that you see.

Corndogger Sep 30, 2020 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bess (Post 9059136)
If you read a little farther down it tells the criteria that was used on the four designs which was then further reduced to the two that you see.

Thanks for pointing that out. Based on what they say it sounds like a strong case can be made for the cable stayed bridge. That option is much more visually appealing and I can see it becoming a landmark for Saskatoon.

The Bess Dec 1, 2020 10:51 PM

Here's a link to the soils and environmental report for the Saskatoon Freeway

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/reports/

The Bess Jan 19, 2021 4:57 PM

Here is an update on some of the input on Northeast swale crossing

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/new-con...rtheast-swale/

Crisis Jan 19, 2021 6:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bess (Post 9164523)
Here is an update on some of the input on Northeast swale crossing

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/new-con...rtheast-swale/

I knew the proposed routing was not going to be very far north, but this latest rendition is much closer to the Chief Mistawasis Bridge crossing than I would have thought.

phone Jan 19, 2021 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bess (Post 9164523)
Here is an update on some of the input on Northeast swale crossing

https://saskatoonfreeway.org/new-con...rtheast-swale/

I think there will eventually be a big problem with traffic cutting through neighbourhood collectors in Aspen Ridge to get from McOrmond over to the proposed Blackley Road exit. Traffic heading from University Heights/Willowgrove over to the Saskatoon Freeway might end up taking that route a lot of the time rather than going all the way to Central.

It seems that the odd bean shaped deflection of McOrmond to create the parkway might have some serious traffic consequences once the Saskatoon Freeway is built.


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