So, I spent the past week in Seattle, and had a fantastic time..
Just a quick thought though... Us Phoenicians, after living here for a while, start deluding ourselves into thinking that our downtown isn't so bad and fairly decent... but then you go to a city like Seattle and you realize that Phoenix is a piece of shit and always will be. ugh.

Heh...same exact same thing happens to me after I go to just about any other city. :( Before going, I'm usually thinking "Hey, our downtown isn't so bad...it's getting there." and then I take a trip to San Diego or San Francisco and get reminded of what a real downtown looks like.

But we have a chipotle!!!

It can be depressing, but just think of it as an opportunity. What was more fun as a kid; looking at some awesome Lego thing your buddy already built, or building one yourself? We've got a long way to go, but it'll just make it all the more satisfying when we get there.

Very true, good analogy. Although, most people want to play with their buddy's lego thing right now rather than spend their childhood building something they can't enjoy while they're young.

We just have to enjoy the little things Phoenix offers. Sure, on the whole it's not as great and grand as most other cities' downtowns, but we can have a greater appreciation for the things Phoenix does offer.

For decades Phoenician's made their choice on the kind of city they wanted and what they wanted was cheap homes with big backyards. However, over the past 7-8 years or so, a shitload of stuff has happened downtown, in fact, some of the largest public investments of any city in America. Now the private sector is catching up. Yeah, I get the same feeling when I come back from other places, but Seattle, San Diego, etc., have the ocean and much longer histories. We're trying to make a really large suburban city into an urban one. That's pretty damn tough to do.

Now for something completely different...
 

So I'm going to see the Suns play the Knicks at MSG in January and wanted to get a new Suns shirt, all of mine are falling apart. I found this cool vintage one with the PHX Skyline on it today, thought some of you might like it:

http://www.shopbenchmark.com/sportiq...y-t-shirt.html

They also have a nice ASU shirt:
http://www.shopbenchmark.com/sportiq...y-t-shirt.html

But even cooler, they randomly sell a Matts Big Breakfast T-Shirt!:
http://www.shopbenchmark.com/sportiq...d-t-shirt.html

http://www.shopbenchmark.com/media/c...wn_matts_1.jpg

E: VV I like orange alright and I just dug that this shirt had a rough approximation of the PHX skyline on it and the vintage sunburst logo.

I don't like the color orange. I'd only buy a t-shirt that I could wear at anytime vs. just for game-time. If I were you, I'd buy an official NBA Adidas bball shirt. I used to shop at the NBA store on 5th ave back in the day. You may wanna hit that up before you go to MSG (if it still exists??)

The Matt's Big Breakfast shirt is cool though, even though it looks like one better try it on first before buying over the internet.

I could rock that suns shirt if it were another color, but I can't pull off orange.

Well I'm going to San Diego in a few weeks... Hope I'm not too disappointed when I get home.

BTW, it'll be my first time in San Diego (grew up in the midwest), any suggestions on things to do?

"BTW, it'll be my first time in San Diego (grew up in the midwest), any suggestions on things to do?"


Attractions: Balboa Park, San Diego Zoo, USS Midway, Point Loma/Cabrillo Lighthouse.

Restaurants: Anthony's Fish Grotto, Dick's Last Resort.

They also have "Duck" tours - WWII era amphibious vehicle tours. I've heard they're pretty fun.

If you're a beer drinker, go to 30th Street in North Park...there are numerous brewpubs and dive bars. Stone Brewing in Escondido is also worth a trip.

Check out Little Italy and Pacific Beach (Garnet Ave) as well

Downtown SD may be home to the most rooftop bars anywhere...if you're looking for that

What's the occasion? Just doing some site seeing (touristy spots)? Wife going along (shopping dining)? Any kids (amusement parks)? Partying (nightlife)?

There's basically 3 major hotel zones in the city.
1: Downtown/Gaslamp - Little Italy
2: Mission Bay
3: Mission Valley

Anything else (La Jolla/Del Mar) is a little farther out and I wouldn't recommend staying there unless you want to set up camp in a specific area.

All are within 15 minutes of one another and the major attractions that the city has to offer, depending on what you're looking to do (and budget) I can recommend one are over another.

San Diego has a lot of fun and unique spots. I used to go a few times each summer and once for a week in the winter and managed to find something new each time. For the most part, downtown is full of a mix of popped collar douches and bermuda short donning tourists. It's more fun (to me) to spend time in the beach communities like Del Mar, Encinitas, La Jolla, Pacific Beach, Ocean Beach, and some of the neighborhodos north of downtown like North Park, Hillcrest, and Mission Valley.

If you're a drinker, Lost Abbey and Stone Breweries are absolute do not miss spots in North County.

If you're going into the city, take some time to visit Ocean Beach for some weird hippy grit, or Pacific Beach for some casual fun night life. Garnet is a street full of bars and clubs with less of a dress code than you'll usually find in Gaslamp.

If you want to sightsee, check out Point Loma, Cabrillo, shopping in La Jolla, and Mission Beach. They are all great tourist sites for first time visits. Torrey Pines State Park is beautiful too.

One place that I consider a do not miss for food is in Hillcrest, Mama Testa Taqueria, which has been featured on Throwdown with Bobby Flay and a few other shows. The food is fantastic, and they have a salsa bar with a number of different homemade salsas each day. Also, one of my favorite things about San Diego are the fish tacos, and you can visit Ocean Beach and go to South Beach Bar and Grill for some fantastic ones, or visit Ki's Restaurant in Del Mar for lunch and sit on the rooftop patio looking at the ocean and munch on some healthy delicious beach fare.

Just doing some sight-seeing with the wife. No kids and no partying/nightlife. Breweries sound fun though.

We are staying on the north side of Fiesta Bay.

Is Stone the brewery that produces Arrogant Bastard? I've got a thing of that in my fridge but I'm not a big fan of ales (it was a gift).

Yeah, that's the one. If it is the "oaked" variety, you're in for an even bigger treat.

Yes, my issue with stone is their beers become repetitive very quickly. They are in love with their barley blend and all of their ales are virtually undistinguishable aside from the IBU each carries.

That said, the Ruination is one of my favorite beers of all time, but it is only slightly different from Arrogant Bastard, Levitation, Oaked, or any of the other brews. I guess they know what they are good at and stick to it!

Well since it's with the wife and it is your first time to SD, I'd recommend staying in the high traffic areas first before you venture off to other neighborhoods. I got a lot of recommendations, hope this helps!

If you're into physical activities and the weather cooperates:
Hiking: Mission Trails Regional Park or Torrey Pines like VLJ said
Biking: Bay front, Ocean front of Mission Beach and Pacific Beach and a great way to get around and site see.
Snorkeling/Kayaking: La Jolla Cove
"Children's Pool" in LJ is a good spot for picture taking at near sunset, no children allowed to recreate on the beach anymore, protected for the seals.
Harbor Tour: Hornblower off Broadway Pier, 1 or 2 hour tours, snacks and drinks on board.
Mt. Soledad: if you drive up to La Jolla and it's clear, take the scenic route and stop off at Mt. Soledad, awesome vistas at the top. You can see Tijuana to the south, Camp Pendleton to the North, Snow to the east, and great views of the ocean.

If the weather is not ideal:
Balboa Park has about 15 museums and attractions all clustered there.
Mission Valley: sprawls-ville, chains, big box, big malls, movie theaters. Fashion Valley/Mission Valley malls within a mile of each other. Good place to kill time if its pouring.

Dining: There are a lot of great places for a date night with the wife
George's at the Cove in LJ is an excellent restaurant with ocean views. Good shopping/dining in La Jolla Village.

PB (one of the highest concentration liquor licenses per capita in CA):
a younger crowd, but there are some good restaurants sprinkled in amongst the casual beach bars and clubs (which are fun). Cafe Bella Italia on Garnet is great. World Famous (steaks/seafood) on the boardwalk where Pacific Beach Dr. terminates and JRDN in Tower 23 hotel, north of the Crystal Pier along the boardwalk has a nice atmosphere.

Ocean Beach: casual, older, hippy-ish, gritty. CASH ONLY at most places, but some good spots on Newport Ave. Pizza Port on Bacon St. has some interesting beers and awesome pizza.

Gaslamp: It's a totally different scene than the beaches. It's a big mix of people, ages, incomes etc...Typically, there are dress codes and has the sophistication of a city atmosphere. Searsucker on 5th/Market is always a popular restaurant, Osetra on 5th/E is known for their seafood and wine tower at the bar.

Coronado: Very clean, very safe, nice little cafe's and restaurants on Orange Ave and of course, the historic Hotel Del on the ocean side. You can take a ferry from Downtown SD to Coronado for a couple bucks and explore around the town on foot or rent a bike. It's like taking a trip back in time to the 1940s.

Old Town: Touristy, but cool if you like history. You'll learn much about SD's history. Large cluster of Mexican restaurants particularly along San Diego Ave. Cafe Coyote, Casa Guadalajara and Miguel's come to mind. Also the location of Old Town Transit Center, busses connect to the Blue and Green line trollies if you're looking to go DT for cheap.

Thanks for the suggestions so far and keep them coming. We're staying up on the north side but plan on parking at the Old Town Transit Center and taking the Blue Line into the city for some of the things we do. Is this a good plan?

We want to go to the beach just to see the ocean, etc. What are good beaches for sightseeing? Cabrillo National Monument also sounds fun. We would probably drive to the National Monument.

We'd alsolike to see downtown and the Gaslamp Quarter to have some local brews and eats. Is the Gaslamp District an authentic historic area or is it kind of like a faux touristy/Scottsdaley attraction?

Gas lamp is worth checking out but it's Scottsdale. Go to north county for beer trust me stone is an attraction in itself.

Gaslamp has a similar vibe as Scottsdale, but it's a true urban and historic area.

Yeah this is good way to get around, especially if you're just doing some sight seeing and taking in the city. Public transportation puts many aspects in perspective vs. driving down the frwy.

Cabrillo is great, definitely drive, I believe they charge $5 to park. On the way, drive through Sunset Cliffs. It's located between Ocean Beach and Cabrillo. Awesome place to catch a sunset and watch the waves slap the cliffs directly below you. Point Loma (same area) has some really neat neighborhoods to go explore, steep hills with the best views of DTSD on one side and great views of the Pacific on the other. If you want Southern California beach town vibe with a board walk, people watch - Pacific Beach is good. For better scenery, go north through La Jolla. Blacks Beach at the glider port is pretty cool and a great little hike down steep cliffs. Just beware that once you get down to the beach if you walk north, it's nude.

Scenic drive along the coast, take the old highway 101 and that'll take you through downtown Del Mar, Encinitas, Cardiff, through Carlsbad all the way to Oceanside Harbor.

I wouldn't compare Gaslamp to Scottsdale at all. While there are some similarities there are more differences between the two. Yeah there are some "Scottsdaley" trendy clubs that attract the flakey/flimsy crowd but to compare it to Scottsdale is misleading for sure. Go on a Friday or Saturday evening for a better experience.

Can someone tell me why on earth San Tan Village is the middle of Gilbert and not Downtown Phoenix?

well the san tans are mtns in the east valley, sorry im not understanding the question....?

San Tan Village is part of a new generation of "lifestyle centers," replacing the now-obsolete shopping mall. People now want the urban experience, Westcor and their ilk offer the same stores in a super-sanitized fake-urban environment surrounding a fake urban privately-owned "street"--try protesting, busking, or pan handling down there and you'll likely get arrested.

The shopping mall template has changed, but the stores haven't--the stores at San Tan Village tend to only locate in shopping malls instead of downtown environments. So not only that, Downtown Phoenix also suffers the triple whammy of atrocious retail demographics and nowhere near the cachet of neighborhoods like Denver's 16th St Mall or Seattle's 5th Avenue area where at least a couple of those San Tan Village stores are also located.

And then you have the land itself--San Tan Village offers no respect to the surrounding area and could be plopped down on any 160ish-acre greenfield lot, about a third to a fifth the size of all of Downtown Phoenix proper depending on what boundaries you use. It would be impossible to assemble that kind of space downtown and it wouldn't even be the highest and best use of the land.

For Downtown Phoenix to sustain the stores of San Tan Village would take dozens of high-rise condo and apartment towers in the downtown area. The surrounding neighborhoods as far west as 43rd Avenue and as far east as 40th St would have be completely renewed beyond anyone's wildest imagination. A pre-requisite would be good schools on the norm of Chandler's and Gilbert's. Something on this order would attract families of all ages--teenagers shopping at Industrial, Zumiez, and AE and their parents shopping at Macy's, Ann Taylor, and Gymboree.

The existing Latino and immigrant communities of Central Phoenix would be completely marginalized in such a transformation. The whole area, some 50 square miles, would be totally unrecognizable compared to today.

I think something like the above is actually within the realm of possibilities and may in fact be inevitable, it would just take 20 or 30 years.

what a great use of space! lets do it!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7035/6...76593026_b.jpg

That looks like a mall without a roof, was the guy suggesting downtown needs a mall without a roof?

LOL, I'm pretty sure that's on top of Combusean's house!

If you exclude all of the surface parking, locate it close to LR, make two or 3 stories tall with office/hotel space above, limit it to one or two department stores and eliminate the theater, all of those stores could easily fit in just a couple city blocks. ie: SD's Horton Plaza or Boston's Copley Place

Now, like you said, getting the desired demographics in the area would take many decades.

I'd love to see an aerial taken of that place during the busiest day of Christmas/holiday season shopping. I can't imagine all of that surface parking would ever be needed, what a hideous waste of space and an unbelievable urban heat island affect contributor.

I agree, but it's not just the suburban malls, it's everywhere. Go to a grocery store or any strip mall and there's probably a hundred open spots.

While on the topic of wasted space, may as well tackle residential streets. I've driven on some that could be a 4 or 5 lane roadway. Then we question why people drive recklessly in Phoenix, so we build speed humps to slow traffic down! :koko: What a waste of space and a waste of city resources to maintain the street surface.

It would also be like the Gateway in Salt Lake. I would love to see something like that downtown instead of the stupid Arizona Center.

http://www.shopthegateway.com/

Speaking of SLC, I saw a photo thread of City Creek shopping district in their DT...Wow!

Hosting my first NYE party at my "new" house. I've decided to do a nacho bar. Any other ideas? What liquor should I stock? I'm a Gin and Vodka drinker myself. Should I get both scotch and whiskey? Should I just load up on champagne? Any ideas are appreciated, party hats? lol

one light, one dark, one sweet, a beer, and a wine/champagne as far as alcohol goes.

You could do vodka, whiskey, OR-G (huge hit with women), any beer, and inexpensive champagne. Nobody would have a legit complaint.

As far as favors go, they're usually a waste, sans of course noise makers, everyone loves those. Oh, and make sure to decorate at least a little.

I've hosted many NYE parties, but after last year and cleaning someone's vomit off my kitchen floor, I'll never do it again.

Get a scotch or whiskey for sure, no need for both though.

I think party favors of all kinds (hats, noise makers, etc.) are a waste and very annoying. Then again, I am quite the curmudgeon.

It looks like we are not the only ones who think putting the MIM out by the highway and away from the downtown museums was an unwise decision. One of the comments is mine.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/n...-saturday.html

Is the MIM in a newly constructed building - specifically for the MIM? Or is it leasing something? If the former, yeah, what a horrible location. If the latter, hopefully someday they move downtown.

It's a newly constructed building specifically for their use.

I'm going to assume that they built it where they did because they already had the land, whereas they probably didn't downtown.

Also, the design does lend itself nicely to the desert, it's definitely a unique museum experience vs the normal urban museum and will probably wow out of state visitors much more than if it was located on say Central Ave.

^If out of State visitors can ever find the thing. You've got to rent a car to get there and anyone in town for a short trip or a Convention will never see the MIM, its a shame.

My hope is that someday the MIM opens a branch campus in Midtown somewhere, akin to the Heard Museums branches in Surprise and N. Scottsdale. If they just had a small museum in Midtown with a rotating exhibit that would be terrific, then they could provide a shuttle bus out to the MIM in Desert Ridge.

How does it lend itself nicely to the desert? It's not located in a nice desert location, its a stone's throw away from the 101 and surrounded by strip malls and gas stations.

I tell a lot of people to go there but unfortunately it mostly falls on deaf ears. Those who do go love it, I loved it. The building is amazing and lol at them removing the lybian display momentarily when the weapons thing was going on.

Have you actually been?

rhetorical question, FTW.

The building is fan-fucking-tastic, and anyone who hasn't been really should go. I agree it's unfortunate they built it in the suburbs, but they couldn't have done what they did downtown.

I'll only go if there is an "Uptown Arts District -->" sign on the 101 off-ramp.

there are no strip malls around there, or many gas stations for that matter unless you count the circle k's at tatum and bell, or in desert ridge. the desert surrounding it is actually quite nice, its a beautiful area.

I'm not sure what you mean here, unless you're just specifically referring to it sitting in a desert site. But that building itself could easily on the NW corner of Central and McDowell with room to spare. Plus there's tons of underused parking lots around Park Central, or up around Indian School Rd it could've fit on. Thats just with its current size too, if they selected a Central City site it would've been a totally different building and had a smaller footprint.

Its just unfortunate that the MIM will likely struggle for a while because of such a poor location, its just too far from any other attractions. Even if it were in Old Town Scottsdale it could've done better and built on the synergy there.

I believe I recall reading that the MIM was funded by the guy who owns Target and he has a winter home somewhere in the Desert Ridge area, so that probably explains its location.

Like I've said before the NW corner of Central/McDowell really would've been perfect, its about 7 acres, the MIMs current configuration is about 5 acres. You could've put the Museum there with a nice grand entrance facing Central Ave, had plenty of room for desert plants/gardens, put the parking underground (and much less parking would be needed b/c of LRT) and even of had room for an apartment/condo tower on the site. Then we really would've had a Midtown "Museum District" and the MIM could've taken part in First Fridays, been a big draw for Convention visitors, etc.

Now I just hope for a small branch campus; if they could open something that had each of their 5 zones with a display from just one country in each zone (that rotated quarterly or so) that would be terrific. Add in a cafe, small store and a smaller performance space (maybe 100 seats) and I think you'd have a real asset to the City.

I wasn't aware Central and McDowell had desert for the building to interact with, but what do I know, I only pass by there a dozen times a week.

Change of subject...

My trip to Romania in photos! :)

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/show....php?p=5531459