PHILADELPHIA | 900 N. 8th Street | 154 FT | 12 FLOORS
 

Walking the line between lowrise and highrise, but it is tall enough to garner its own thread.
https://i.imgur.com/TcQcWaJ.jpg
Title: 900 N. 8th Street & 901 N. 9th Street
Project: Residential
Architect: Coscia Moos Arch
Developer: APOM Holdings
Location: 900 Block of Poplar
Neighborhood: Poplar
Floors: 12 Floors
Height: 154 feet

Tower 1 is 12 floors and 154 feet tall. Tower 2 is 11 floors and 134 feet tall.

https://www.phila.gov/CityPlanning/p...ET_reduced.pdf

https://i.imgur.com/oWXPNw3.png
https://i.imgur.com/UoWg3Xk.jpg

Wow! that looks awesome and came out of nowhere!

Incredible proposal! I only count 11 floors on each though. Am I missing something?

As per the CDR elevation, I count 12 floors with a weird penthouse thingy on top.

Yeah, this looks awesome. This is the scale that the Delaware waterfront should be seeing instead of three story townhomes.

It's a nice looking building and I hope this thing comes to fruition.

N Broad area developments

blue -under construction
red -proposals

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7809/...33a4e68c_b.jpgN Broad Street 2-26-19

This is one of the best designed residential proposals I've seen in Philly in a long stretch. Especially for something that's not extremely high end. Kudos to Hightop and David Landskroner!

Those Richard Allen homes make me angrier with every passing year. That area needs to be rebuilt so badly. Really all of Poplar and West Poplar is pretty out of sorts.

Septa could easily make a regional rail station here if this comes to fruition. The tracks come above ground at Fairmount so an above ground station at Poplar or Girard would be great. Girard would probably make more sense because the trolley runs there.

Seems to be 11 floors, and that's what the CDR submission indicates as well...but fuck it; let's call it ambiguous and allow this beauty its own thread.

Preach!

The longer building does technically have 12 floors above ground if you include the parking garage in the rear portion of the building, so I'm letting it slide so this can have it's own thread :cheers::tup:

maybe a regional rail stop at Girard would make sense...

:cheers:

SEFTA's "aerial" really makes that apparent. It looks like a suburban hole in the urban donut.

And it could definitely work. Just south of Girard on the East is a vacant lot and the west just a a dry cleaners and then behind that a vacant lot. If this gets built out there is definitely an argument for it, however it is only a short trolley ride or even just a walk to Girard BSL stop.

Girard Ave needs some good quality infill right now. It's not tall enough, but that building is needed for that corridor, considering the much needed density and the quality of the building, along with the Quaker Building, would allow that development to become a reality. I can only hope it gets built ASAP.

To the average person, placing a regional rail stop makes sense, but that would make it less of a regional rail line and more in line as a "subway" line, which I feel that corridor needs, from the Chestnut Hill stations through North Philadelphia, and underneath the 9th St viaduct into 30th St and University City.

Now that the city is growing, hopefully the city can enhance it's mass transit system and the regional rail system can follow suit with restored service to West Chester, Reading, Lancaster, Allentown, and Easton.

There used to be a Reading Railroad stop at Ninth and Girard way back when. Back in the day, there were a lot more stations within the city limits on what is now the regional rail. As far as resurrecting any Ninth and Girard is one of the prime candidates.

It's a balance. I agree on the merits of the stop for the CH line. But many of the other lines don't need yet another stop in North Philly. If Septa wants to get out to Allentown the train needs to be a fast alternative and a stop like this does not achieve that.

I think the building by the viaduct on Spring Garden was a station too. A stop at 9th and Girard makes sense if it doesn't cause a bottleneck with the other lines. I guess they could designate the two inside tracks as thru-service and the outside as local to lower the impact. Not sure if two tracks would be enough bandwidth for the other lines though. Maybe if they have the Chestnut Hill, Fox Chase and Warminster lines make the local stops.

Anyway, I like this project; it expands on the progress that Northern Liberties has made.

agreed, also I agree not all trains have to make stops, with 3 or 4 making any stop there it would still achieve decent headways (maybe add the Norristown line with a stop; probably would lead to 10 minute headways on rush and no less than 15-20 off peak)

I also like the concept here, looks great


would love to see SG, Girard and also Washington all densify

For SEPTA to have fast service to the Leigh Valley (Bethlehem) its going to take a lot of changes and improvements to the line. I wish they'd start on those today, but no one should hold their breath.

This proposal feels like a real one, not just a bait and sell. I'm pleasantly amazed that developers think the area can support the number of new units these two projects would add. And the fact that they can get financing says a lot about the Philly market.

Once again, I can understand that there used to be a stop on 9th and Girard, however, I would rather see SEPTA construct a subway line underneath the ROW than just placing another stop on the viaduct.

Don't get me wrong: placing a stop on 9th and Girard makes absolute sense, but that would make less sense to operate the regional rail system by adding another station when Temple University is about a half mile away from Girard Ave and having another station would affect the frequency of regional rail trains plus the added capacity when a heavy rail line nearby would provide much needed service for that area.

I entirely agree. As much as I love the heritage trolleys, Girard ave would be better served by a subway.

As much as this is a pipe dream because of funding, I would love this. It would connect fishtown, northern liberties, fairmount, and brewerytown so well

It seems like you're talking about an east-west subway. My plans would've been to create a subway from University City and 30th Street Station through JFK Blvd and north through 9th St and the Reading Railroad ROW to North Phila Station, where it will later deviate and follow the old Chestnut Hill Lines.

I'm still frustrated why SEPTA won't even expand either it's subway or commuter rail system when other cities such as Boston, NYC, Washington DC, and SF, and even smaller metros like Miami, Atlanta and St Louis are expanding or looking to expand and obtaining funding while Philadelphia and Pennsylvania is stagnant when it comes to mass transit.

It doesn't matter how much money a city has or generates, when you don't have a viable mass transit system like the former cities I mentioned, eventually, you'll have a very time growing, which is why San Antonio and Phoenix have recently surpassed us in population, because of their economies and their cheaper way of life in comparison to Philadelphia.

First, as others have mentioned, a 9th and Girard stop would not have to be used by every train passing by. So not every train would be slowed down.

More importantly, dwell time and overall travel time would be improved system-wide by all high level platforms, and all modern train sets with doors located at the center and ends of every car so people can exit and enter in seconds. We should follow the models of a modern Paris or German style regional rail system that provide vastly more frequent service since we already have the through-running tunnel in place. New (or resurrected) infill train stops in that case would make a ton of sense with vastly improved frequency. Your proposed subway line doesn't make any sense to me. With limited resources, why duplicate an already existing rail line with a subway. Just improve what you have (for far less money) and build a new subway on the Boulevard where it is much more needed.

SEPTA has very little control over capital funding. Expansion is a pipe dream with current funding realities.

Just curious; is regional rail cheaper than HR/Subway to build? If so would it make sense to build a regional rail line up the BLVD. Potentially could link with an extended MFL (make it to the BLVD) and fern rock maybe (maybe a spur from the fox chase could hit the BLVD

If your subway is truly a underground subway, then there's no question that it would be vastly more costly then regional rail. Girard Ave, because of its width and that so many intersections have traffic lights, would be a good candidate for turning that line into a 'modern' trolley line, where the ROW has some sense of limited access and the trolleys could be given traffic light controls. The section of the line between Broad St west to the river is tight, but much of the rest of the line runs on a fairly wide street. Unfortunately SEPTA for good or ill doesn't have very big dreams (if any!) and that might reflect accurately on the gov'ts they represent. I'm glad that they seemingly are serious about trying to preserve their existing service, but wish they and the powers that be would think bigger and have a sense of, a interest in new future possibilities.

has there been any talk of potentially extending the viaduct park up this far?

https://i.imgur.com/jniQi5a.jpg

I doubt it. You'd be reaaaaaaaally close to the ROW at that point. It'd be a safety nightmare.

That part you highlighted between brown and parish isn't elevated and the part above Fairmount below brown is connected by a tiny footbridge and not all that area is elevated either. It would be hard to really call any of this an "elevated viaduct. It's more like orphaned spaced from where the viaduct used to be.

It's not a priority nationally, so it's not one in this region. The feds have taken a step back in terms of funding major transit expansions. When the interstates were built the feds paid 80 or 90% of the cost. Now, to get a major transit expansion you have to go through a lengthy process to even apply for a federal grant- which will only cover 50% of the project cost IF YOU ARE AWARDED the grant. There is article today about Lower Merion confirming they will not chip in towards cost of K of P expansion. without a regional tax dedicated to transit you will never see ambitious expansion projects happening here.

TBH I don't see why a subway along Girard would be necessary. The 15 is surprisingly underutilized as it is and the ROW is more than wide enough (east of Broad) for median light rail.

What I would like to see is a project (e.g. on Girard) demonstrating that full running-way separation is viable on those E-W crosstowns, which incidentally would make the 54, 56, and 60 (Lehigh, Erie, and Allegheny avenues respectively) de facto BRT.

But then we as a country are terrible at incremental improvements to service booming ridership.

You have space west of Broad too, you'd just have to eliminate street parking on Girard :runaway:

In general, the flow of traffic in this city could be much improved by synchronizing the lights. Ever see the traffic lights change in NYC? It's so effective and of course visually stunning seeing all the intersections in front of you turn green one right after the other - depending on traffic, you can easily drive 10 blocks before hitting the next red light. Here, it's a fucking mess. You could be stopped at an intersection and see the light at the next one is green and by the time it's your turn to go, the next intersection turns red. I don't think I've ever gone through more than 3 intersections at a time here in Philly. It's a problem that affects passenger vehicles, buses, and trolleys all the same.

Is synchronizing traffic lights such a big to do? I really don't know how complicated it is but it's just another one of those little things that sometimes make you wonder if the people running this city can do anything right.

I'm not going to do a 1492 and defend the City, but on a two way street isn't organizing the lights impossible? One beef I have is in certainly places the lights are on a extremely long cycle, which might make sense during peak hours but at 10PM when you're just sitting there for 4 or 5 minutes, its a bother. But what really digs at me is when you call the City, via 311, its very apparent the City could care less. Its like they don't realize the City is suppose to be there to serve the citizens, not the other way around.

The first time I noticed the synchronized lighting was on Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn, which is a two-way boulevard. I was a young kid visiting family (25-30 years ago?). So I don't think it's impossible on a two-way street; nor is it a recent technological improvement. But I still won't pretend to be an expert.

On one hand, the city tends to be pretty bad with this sort of shit. On the other hand, if it was really something that could be accomplished by the switch of a button, I'd have to think it would have been done decades ago. I really don't know the complexity of it. Right now, it's just another one of those annoying "NY does it better" tropes. At least in my brain.

^^^
The current tech is there. Don't know if certain city streets (main roads) have updated to these systems.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/innovation/...edc-1/asct.cfm

Chestnut, Walnut, and Market in West Philly all have synchronous lights for me. If I’m driving into the city on Chestnut I usually get like 10 lights before stopping.

I live on Spruce, and all the lights in Wash West are synchronized. You can drive westbound from Front to Broad on Spruce and never stop (when there's no traffic). Likewise, you can drive eastbound from Broad to Front on Pine and South and never stop.

With two-way streets like Broad Street or Washington Avenue in South Philadelphia, lights are timed such that every two stoplights is on the opposite schedule (e.g., on Washington Ave., 12th & 11th and 7th & 8th are green while 10th & 9th and 5th & 6th are red). Depending on block length, this allows groups of cars to travel non-stop in both directions at about 25 mph, passing each other at every other block.

Just a casual observation from somebody who grew up in the South, but I find it so odd how the typical Philadelphia driver refuses to utilize timed lights. Instead, so many drivers here speed to the next light before it turns green. This happens on Broad Street all the time. Why do that when you can practically set the cruise control on 25 mph and never stop?

Anyways. Super off topic but my experience has been that the lights in Philadephia generally are timed pretty well. Columbus Blvd. is a major exception.

^
Just a lot of idiot drivers racing (in a hurry) to the next stop light or heavy volume traffic with no where to go. Very frustrating in these situations.

Center City has a lot of streets with synchronized lights. Pine, Spruce, Lombard, South St West all have synced lights - set to 20mph. Even South Broad certain times of day (not at night to prevent drag racing I was told) has them synced to around 20mph. There's even a green street sign that indicate the start of a sync'd row of lights that says "LIGHTS TIMED TO 20MPH."

The issue is with 1 and 2 lane streets - often being blocked/congested w/ ubers/cyclists/buses/delivers and less than 30 second timers on lights - if you fall at all below the average pace of 20mph you'll hit a light in a few blocks. But off-peak time, on a sunday morning for example, you can cruise around no problem right at 20mph.

Begs the question with some of our more frequent posters....have you guys, like, ever been to center city?

No need to be cute, esp if directed at me. I'm there frequently. I don't drive in town so much. But I do notice the lack of synchronization most obviously on streets outside of CC, e.g., Washington, Girard, Spring Garden, and Cottman. Within CC proper, there's usually so much traffic that the synchronization of lights (if they are or not) is not noticeable.

Broad St., Market St, and lights around City hall-i've never noticed synchronization nor has it worked for me. Maybe late late into the night (or early before dawn) but I don't drive that late anyways. I go through one light and need to wait for the next light before proceeding is more common when I have to drive.

Walnut St. for example when heading out (or coming back in) from (to) West Philly at night time past 7:30 pm, the synchronization works well due to lower traffic volume and you can "time" those lights changing from red to green without using your brake and gas pedal if you do 20-25mph.

You can take advantage in certain situations if you know when and how, but with other drivers wanting to get ahead of you or riding your ass, it's not worth it. I usually just go with the flow of traffic.

i hate to continue the off topic talk, but some additional signal info: https://www.phila.gov/2018-07-12-cit...-improvements/

If these posts were in the Philadelphia transportation thread, they’d be perfectly on topic.

We really need to get the Philly transportation thread more visibility.