SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

YYCguys Mar 6, 2022 3:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9557756)
So basically WestJet should be going to a regional operator and hiring them to operate the flight for them with a CRJ or something similar.

I would have expected WS to be running connecting traffic on Delta on that route.

Perhaps that route is a candidate for the Westjet Link brand?

hehehe Mar 6, 2022 4:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9558099)
Perhaps that route is a candidate for the Westjet Link brand?

Speaking of, I wonder if link ever expands to the east. The only possible additions in the west are the previously applied for YYC/YVR-GEG and maybe a YVR-YKA/YPR/YYD or YYC-YCG.
I think link would do very well at YHZ and could offer a higher frequency YHZ-YQY, make YHZ-YQX year-round and bring back YHZ-YDF.

MountainView Mar 6, 2022 4:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9558099)
Perhaps that route is a candidate for the Westjet Link brand?

I am not sure if you are serious or not... but there is no chance WestJet Link would ever fly YYZ-LGA. There's a reason you don't even see Encore on YYZ-LGA. It is a premium heavy (especially pre-covid) route, with many carriers competing on the route. There also seems to be a stigma by Americans against turboprop aircraft. Also why WestJet won't send their Q400s on this route, even if it might be the best aircraft for it right now. Thus, that's why you see their B737 on the route.. even when AC and Delta would fly regional jets in the past.

WestJet would lose money flying a 34 seat aircraft on this route and they would look very "bush league". In my opinion, if Porter didn't have YTZ to themselves from BOS/EWR/MDW/IAD they probably wouldn't survive flying the Q400 to YYZ from these markets. Lots of stigma vs. a jet engine aircraft for a lot of people.

As thenoflyzone has mentioned before, I am sure WestJet is okay losing money (being a loss leader) on this route so that their name is out there.

Calfan12 Mar 6, 2022 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9557772)
WS YYZ-LGA gradually goes up to 2x daily by late April. The other odd part is even with DL codeshare it drops from 8x daily in late April to just 5x daily from May 1.

Still odd that WS won't extend its modified schedules into May. Well a few routes have gotten some adjustments the bulk of the schedule is still pre-COVID. Pretty sure they are the last NA carrier to make summer changes.

YYC-LON still jumps from 4x weekly in late April to 11x weekly May 1st.

Not surprising for some cuts Toronto YYZ - New York LGA flight route as WestJet & Delta are consolidating their New York flights.

When Delta Airlines resumes Toronto YYZ - New York JFK flights 3x daily in June using CRJ900 planes ✈️ to compete with the Flair 1x daily on YYZ-JFK route & WestJet will have a alittle bit of presence on also as 1 of 3 is a codeshare flight,both directions.

Plus there’s enough flights this Summer 2022 between Toronto & New York.

hollywoodcory Mar 6, 2022 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9558172)
Not surprising for some cuts Toronto YYZ - New York LGA flight route as WestJet & Delta are consolidating their New York flights.

I could be wrong, but without a JV WS/DL cannot legally consolidate or coordinate their schedules. Meaning the decision to reduce its flights would have been done independently.

Also without a FAA slot waiver, WS not using more than half its slots puts them at risk of losing them. This is why I suggested it could be done ahead of a possible new application for the JV.

Also this isn't "some" cuts, this is WS killing 70% of its YYZ-NYC flights.

Dominion301 Mar 6, 2022 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kattiff (Post 9557728)
So nice to see Winnipeg jump ahead of Ottawa lol

Temporarily just like YYC has temporarily jumped ahead of YUL. That’s the difference between cities in the middle-of-nowhere and middle-of-somewhere during the pandemic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557688)
Have they?

The FAA hasn't issued COVID relief slot guidelines for S22 yet, at least not publicly.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ry_information



I don't think this is indicative of weaker demand for S22.

Let's be honest. WS has probably always lost money on YYZ-LGA. They're flying the route in order to keep the slots. Period.

Their competition on the route, for the most part, flies regional aircraft with regional crews, meaning lower costs, while they're stuck flying fuel inefficient B737-700s, on mainline pilot pay. Fuel efficiency was probably even worse when they were using the B737-600s on the route.

Yes, AC puts mainline equipment on the route during peak times, but at least its the CSeries, which burns 20% less fuel than those old 737s.

So, on a very busy route such as this, where you need to match fares, it's a given YYZ-LGA is losing money for WS, and probably always has. So if in fact they have already been told to expect slot waivers for S22, it's a given YYZ-LGA would be downgraded.

What is WS's current operations on YYZ-LGA in W22? Probably only 1x daily no? So it will be the same thing in S22. I think WS knows it can put those 737s to better use on other routes.

As for the war, as long as it stays in Ukraine, I doubt it will depress traffic on Canada-Western Europe this summer.

The FAA international waiver publicly available is listed as winter 2021-22 at this point, but no doubt WS was notified of a further extension.

I’ve never understood why WS won’t use DH4s on YYZ-LGA at least off-peak hours. It’s not like they’d be the only ones doing so on NYC-YTO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557475)
^ I guess WestJet and Sunwing should be banned from Canadian airspace....:runaway:



Some other airports have posted 2021 numbers as well, including YLW, YHM and YQM. I've updated wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_Canada#2021

Planning on going beyond the top 20 on wiki for this year?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557428)
YVR and YUL posted 2021 full year figures. I've all but given up on YYZ. Their last posted month was February 2021. Also, still waiting for YYC and YEG December numbers.

YVR

Total: 7,086,602 -3.0%

Domestic: 5,160,742 +21.7%
International: 994,627 -42%
Transborder: 931,233 -31.2%

Intl+transboder: 1,925,860 -37.1%

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

YUL

Total: 5,201,751 -4.3%

Domestic: 2,442,801 +21.6%
International: 1,903,257 -20.2%
Transborder: 855,693 -17.8%

Intl+transborder: 2,758,950 -19.5%

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...et_2021_EN.pdf

YYZ have in recent time been announcing numbers quarterly as part of their financial results. They round to the nearest 0.1M now. I believe probably 30 pages back posted the last available quarter.

thenoflyzone Mar 6, 2022 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9558547)

Planning on going beyond the top 20 on wiki for this year?

Nope. It's hard enough as it is getting the top 20 sorted. There's still some airports with missing/unavailable info for 2020, much less 2021.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 9557906)

YYZ I believe is posting stats on a quarterly basis now.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9558547)

YYZ have in recent time been announcing numbers quarterly as part of their financial results. They round to the nearest 0.1M now. I believe probably 30 pages back posted the last available quarter.

Yeah, which is pretty useless for wiki. I need exact figures.

Calfan12 Mar 8, 2022 12:37 PM

Looks like Air Transat & Porter Airlines has agreed to codesharing agreement & starting this Summer 2022 season.

The first phase of the agreement will focus on connecting Porter's bases at Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (YTZ) and Halifax-Stanfield (YHZ) to Air Transat's hub at Montreal-Trudeau (YUL), providing customers of both carriers with a greater selection of connecting flights in Canada, the U.S. and internationally.

"We are very excited to team up with Porter in an important partnership that will contribute to the strengthening of our network and reinforce our leadership in our main markets," said Transat President and CEO Annick Guérard. "This promising agreement brings together two award-winning, traveller-centric brands whose flight schedules are complementary, and creates great opportunities for customers who are looking for quality and effortless travel. By providing better connectivity, it will not only enhance our destination offering for our Canadian and international customers, but also save them time and make their lives easier."

"This code-sharing agreement with Air Transat nicely complements our own growth plans," said Michael Deluce, president and CEO, Porter Airlines. "The introduction of seamless access to international markets, where Air Transat has made its mark, is an especially great benefit for our passengers. The overall combination of new routes and finding a partner that shares our dedication to delivering a great travel experience is a perfect fit."

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...832669271.html

Dominion301 Mar 8, 2022 1:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9558571)
Nope. It's hard enough as it is getting the top 20 sorted. There's still some airports with missing/unavailable info for 2020, much less 2021.






Yeah, which is pretty useless for wiki. I need exact figures.

I'd recommend emailing the GTAA for the monthly pax totals broken down by sector. I did that once with YHZ as they only publish the yearly grand total on their website. They actually obliged for me.

casper Mar 8, 2022 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9560033)
Looks like Air Transat & Porter Airlines has agreed to codesharing agreement & starting this Summer 2022 season.

The first phase of the agreement will focus on connecting Porter's bases at Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (YTZ) and Halifax-Stanfield (YHZ) to Air Transat's hub at Montreal-Trudeau (YUL), providing customers of both carriers with a greater selection of connecting flights in Canada, the U.S. and internationally.

"We are very excited to team up with Porter in an important partnership that will contribute to the strengthening of our network and reinforce our leadership in our main markets," said Transat President and CEO Annick Guérard. "This promising agreement brings together two award-winning, traveller-centric brands whose flight schedules are complementary, and creates great opportunities for customers who are looking for quality and effortless travel. By providing better connectivity, it will not only enhance our destination offering for our Canadian and international customers, but also save them time and make their lives easier."

"This code-sharing agreement with Air Transat nicely complements our own growth plans," said Michael Deluce, president and CEO, Porter Airlines. "The introduction of seamless access to international markets, where Air Transat has made its mark, is an especially great benefit for our passengers. The overall combination of new routes and finding a partner that shares our dedication to delivering a great travel experience is a perfect fit."

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...832669271.html

With Porter getting new jets I wonder if this provides any insight into where these aircraft are going to be based. I was originally thinking Ottawa. However if they may very well be better off basing these flights out Montreal if they can easily fill seats with AirTransat passengers.

Calfan12 Mar 8, 2022 3:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9560111)
With Porter getting new jets I wonder if this provides any insight into where these aircraft are going to be based. I was originally thinking Ottawa. However if they may very well be better off basing these flights out Montreal if they can easily fill seats with AirTransat passengers.

Yep & will see. Also wonder if Porter & Air Transat decides to extend the codesharing agreement covering flights from Western Canada.

As looks like Air Transat planning to going year round on Vancouver YVR- Toronto YYZ & Vancouver- Montreal YUL flight routes,as I see it’s open for booking for next Winter season,currently. (Though it’s subject to change).

Dominion301 Mar 9, 2022 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9560111)
With Porter getting new jets I wonder if this provides any insight into where these aircraft are going to be based. I was originally thinking Ottawa. However if they may very well be better off basing these flights out Montreal if they can easily fill seats with AirTransat passengers.

PD stated from the get-go that they're going to have 4 jet bases - YOW, YUL, YHZ & YYZ. The question will be, which station sees the most.

YOW is supposed to be the E-Jet maintenance base. I can still see YOW being the main E-Jet hub, but with YUL having a bank of flights late afternoon to feed TS connections.

Coldrsx Mar 9, 2022 6:41 PM

Cool

1980s photo showcasing AC's helicopter service from YYZ to Toronto Island Airport. Photo courtesy Air Canada Courtesy Lyaz Rahiman. Did you know Air Canada had choppers?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNWdA4KU...g&name=900x900
https://twitter.com/tri_jet/status/1501278692831465479

casper Mar 9, 2022 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx (Post 9561693)
Cool

1980s photo showcasing AC's helicopter service from YYZ to Toronto Island Airport. Photo courtesy Air Canada Courtesy Lyaz Rahiman. Did you know Air Canada had choppers?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNWdA4KU...g&name=900x900
https://twitter.com/tri_jet/status/1501278692831465479

Interesting.

Today the only Downtown to Airport helicopter service is Vancouver. Even then it is just a tag-on to the service to Victoria.

Denscity Mar 9, 2022 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9558102)
Speaking of, I wonder if link ever expands to the east. The only possible additions in the west are the previously applied for YYC/YVR-GEG and maybe a YVR-YKA/YPR/YYD or YYC-YCG.
I think link would do very well at YHZ and could offer a higher frequency YHZ-YQY, make YHZ-YQX year-round and bring back YHZ-YDF.

AC is restarting daily YYC to YCG so Link may be too much.
But Link from YCG to YLW would be great!

Dominion301 Mar 10, 2022 12:15 AM

The first half dozen fines have been levied on six of the Sunwing 'party' YUL-CUN charter flight's passengers. Amounts unspecified, but the first fines are for those who aren't fully vaccinated.

https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...897593455.html

I wonder how long that YTZ-YYZ helicopter service lasted? I'd never heard of it. The AC L10 looks majestic though.

thewave46 Mar 10, 2022 2:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9562083)
The AC L10 looks majestic though

L1011! :cool:

Makes the DC-10 look frumpy.

thenoflyzone Mar 10, 2022 2:39 PM

Some new airlines coming to YYZ.

RJ will commence 3x weekly service from Amman to YYZ next June. Flights will be one stop via YUL.
DTW service, which used to run via YUL in winter, will now become non stop year round service.

https://onemileatatime.com/news/roya...ronto-detroit/

Also, Biman wants to start Dhaka-YYZ non stop service by the end of the month.

https://www.thedailystar.net/busines...rch-26-2972921

Nice additions to YYZ, if they materialize.

hollywoodcory Mar 10, 2022 6:46 PM

YYC December 2021/ Full Year stats:

Domestic: 699,711 +199.1% (2021 total: 5,376,790 +23.91%)
Transborder: 135,071 +333.5% (2021 total: 589,549 -27.92%)
International: 99,150 +355.3% (2021 total: 360,067 -30.50%)
December Total: 933,932 +225.5%

2021 Full year total: 6,326,406 +11.47%

January 2022 Stats:
Domestic: 475,444 +130%
Transborder: 95,549 +220%
International: 82,707 +321.5%
January Total: 653,700 +155.1%

thenoflyzone Mar 10, 2022 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9562874)
YYC December 2021/ Full Year stats:

Domestic: 699,711 +199.1% (2021 total: 5,376,790 +23.91%)
Transborder: 135,071 +333.5% (2021 total: 589,549 -27.92%)
International: 99,150 +355.3% (2021 total: 360,067 -30.50%)
December Total: 933,932 +225.5%

2021 Full year total: 6,326,406 +11.47%

January 2022 Stats:
Domestic: 475,444 +130%
Transborder: 95,549 +220%
International: 82,707 +321.5%
January Total: 653,700 +155.1%

Definition of a domestic powerhouse right there !

We always knew YYC was ahead of YUL in domestic passenger numbers, but that's 2 years now they're even ahead of YVR in that regard. That's impressive !


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.