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SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7317777)
It is not always a case of Occam's Razor. Sometimes a plane with less passengers if more profitable than a plane with more passengers because the plane with fewer passengers has passengers sitting in the most lucrative seats. If the flights from Edmonton, Winnipeg and Vancouver are bringing in more dollars to the economy than the flights from Beijing, Doha and London, I'd take the economic boost over the prestige. While international passenger at Canadian airports are not automatically spending their money elsewhere, they are not automatically spending their money in Canada either.

If you say so... I wonder why the Montreal-Beijing flight was talked about much more than the Montreal-Denver flight... :rolleyes: give your head a shake

Riise Jan 29, 2016 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317802)
I wonder why the Montreal-Beijing flight was talked about much more than the Montreal-Denver flight

It's one of the cases where the international flight will be more lucrative than the transborder flight. Did I say that these cases do not exist or that they are not always the case? The latter is my point of contention, it is not always the case but is presented as such. Even more frustratingly, it is brought up when economic impact isn't even part of the conversation. You most certainly know what I'm getting at.

thenoflyzone Jan 29, 2016 8:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker (Post 7317781)
Didn't think of that. Can all Air Canada/WestJet flights land using that? It'd suck if we spent all this money and the planes themselves can't use the tech.

Yes. AC mainline (except for the E190s) and WS (737s/767s) can fly CAT III approaches. Porter/Encore Q400s and AC's E190s need a HGS (Head-Up Guidance system), as the planes are not Autoland equipped.

Dont know if AC's E190s have the HGS. Probably not. I know Jetblue does, but they dont fly to YYT ;)

All in all, the CAT III was needed at YYT. It was a good move !

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 9:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7317778)
Who in their right mind in BC would be thinking about Cuba when you have Hawaii practically next door?

Are you kidding? Havana has 10 times the culture of Honolulu.

I know where I'd rather spend 10 days, and it's eating a cubano in a 200 year old building, not eating a fatburger in a stripmall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7317802)
If you say so... I wonder why the Montreal-Beijing flight was talked about much more than the Montreal-Denver flight... :rolleyes: give your head a shake

Sure, but what's more lucrative, a Calgary - Toronto flight or a Montreal - Cancun. Your example goes both ways.

Some intl flights are huge for business, and so are some domestic. Vice versa, some intl flights just siphon money away from the local economy, as do some domestic. It's really a flight by flight basis.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318225)
Are you kidding? Havana has 10 times the culture of Honolulu.

I know where I'd rather spend 10 days, and it's eating a cubano in a 200 year old building, not eating a fatburger in a stripmall.



Sure, but what's more lucrative, a Calgary - Toronto flight or a Montreal - Cancun. Your example goes both ways.

Some intl flights are huge for business, and so are some domestic. Vice versa, some intl flights just siphon money away from the local economy, as do some domestic. It's really a flight by flight basis.

You're right, but notice I never mentioned leisure flights to the Carribeans, which obviously don't bring much economic value even though they're considered as international. Which is why carriers like Cubana and Aeromexico aren't included in the international list.

My point was referring more to important international destinations like Europe and Asia.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318225)
Are you kidding? Havana has 10 times the culture of Honolulu.

I know where I'd rather spend 10 days, and it's eating a cubano in a 200 year old building, not eating a fatburger in a stripmall.

Maybe you and a small handful of others in Vancouver are interested in that experience. However, the reality is that planes going down to Cuba are full of vacationers looking to lie on the beach, and there are places to do that where you don't have to expect to spend half your vacation on the toilet, or playing "spot the botulism-tainted chicken" at mealtimes.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7318263)
Maybe you and a small handful of others in Vancouver are interested in that experience. However, the reality is that planes going down to Cuba are full of vacationers looking to lie on the beach, and there are places to do that where you don't have to expect to spend half your vacation on the toilet, or playing "spot the botulism-tainted chicken" at mealtimes.

I'm sure it's more than just a small handful of Vancouverites who are interested in exploring the unique culture and experience that is non-resort Cuba. I'm not particularly interested in sitting around at an all inclusive wasting a week of my life drinking and eating mediocre food. I would imagine it's people like that who "in their right mind" would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7318252)
You're right, but notice I never mentioned leisure flights to the Carribeans, which obviously don't bring much economic value even though they're considered as international. Which is why carriers like Cubana and Aeromexico aren't included in the international list.

My point was referring more to important international destinations like Europe and Asia.

No but you did say "More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that."

And I'm saying it's nowhere near as simple as that. International PAX as a statistic comes in all shapes and sizes. It's really too bad YUL doesn't break out their sun flying from their wide body international, because if they did I bet their international number would drop significantly.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318282)
I'm sure it's more than just a small handful of Vancouverites who are interested in exploring the unique culture and experience that is non-resort Cuba. I'm not particularly interested in sitting around at an all inclusive wasting a week of my life drinking and eating mediocre food. I would imagine it's people like that who "in their right mind" would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii.

If there were more of you, the flights would exist, simple as that.

Mass tourism and all inclusives are what fill planes headed down there. And the point is there are places that offer a better experience of that kind, and are much better situated in relation to Vancouver.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 10:38 PM

Naturally. You just asked who would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii, and I think there are quite a few very rational people who would desire that experience.

esquire Jan 29, 2016 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318297)
Naturally. You just asked who would want to go to Cuba over Hawaii, and I think there are quite a few very rational people who would desire that experience.

And that handful of people can keep on connecting in Toronto or wherever. Meanwhile, the people wasting their lives on beach vacations will head to places more convenient and that offer a much better experience in that regard than Cuba.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318289)
No but you did say "More international routes, more economic possibilities, as simple as that."

And I'm saying it's nowhere near as simple as that. International PAX as a statistic comes in all shapes and sizes. It's really too bad YUL doesn't break out their sun flying from their wide body international, because if they did I bet their international number would drop significantly.

Well if you separate all the Chinese people in Vancouver who go home to visit their families from the rest, you get different numbers as well... This works pretty much everywhere.

LeftCoaster Jan 29, 2016 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7318305)
Well if you separate all the Chinese people in Vancouver who go home to visit their families from the rest, you get different numbers as well... This works pretty much everywhere.

Huh? I'm tabling about separating an A319 carrying all inclusive passengers to a overgrown beach town, not a 777-300 connecting to one of the biggest most influential cities on the planet.

We were talking about separating out big economy flights. Sun flying is not that and a YVR-PEK or PVG most definitely is.

If you're going to bring that up, I'd imagine YVR sees more of the widebody, big money international flights than YUL does. For all YULs big international numbers, so much of it is made up of narrow body sun flying.

SkahHigh Jan 29, 2016 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318339)
If you're going to bring that up, I'd imagine YVR sees more of the widebody, big money international flights than YUL does. For all YULs big international numbers, so much of it is made up of narrow body sun flying.

And your source is?

LeftCoaster Jan 30, 2016 12:17 AM

My source is mainly comparing the list compiled by G.S with the list I keep.

I believe they are both quite accurate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S MTL (Post 7314177)

http://i.imgur.com/WCR0BUQ.png?1

Looks to me like weekly intl widebody flights are as follows (I removed Aeromexico & AC to MEX and Wow Air to KEF):

YVR: 258
YUL: 244

As you can see from the list, not only does YVR see more widebody intercontinental flights, the planes tend to be larger as well.

Johnny Aussie Jan 30, 2016 12:38 AM

The Cuba over the Hawaii thing? I used to go to Hawaii a lot when I lived in Canada. I loved the mix of rustic with a bit of the upmarket . I hadn't been in over 10 years and was just there in December 2014. I was so disappointed that Kuhio and Kalakaua have just been over run with the same high end stores as anywhere else. Has really lost its unique charm that I used to love. No desire to go back for awhile unless we head to one of the other Islands. I love the less popular places in SE Asia. But I also love the more popular places in SE Asia. Bali is another example that is slowly losing its appeal too. There are still a few decent areas that have a unique charm but with so many other options close by I know what I'd pick. I realise everybody has different tastes when it comes to sun destination holidays but that's just my two cents. Despite SE Asia being such a long way to travel from Canada I would still encourage it :) and it's cheaper for us to go there than most Aussie tropical places.

I agree I would like to see the breakdown of international passengers by region for all Canadian airports. I would also like to see it broken down further by Canadian originating pax and visitors. I have a feeling this data would paint a completely different picture when comparing international numbers. Another example, I know YEG is focusing on its large increase in International pax. But if you put a 14% increase in perspective that increase is coming off a really low base. Also a lot of that increase has been due to increased sun destination flights. European capacity has been a wash with AC/TS pulling out but offset by KL and FI coming in. And Westjet's entry is just replacing the last of AC's LHR capacity being axed. In fact capacity to Europe as it stands will be slightly lower this summer as KL and FI are status quo for 2016. Sunwing is also pulling back to four weekly again this summer too.

Johnny Aussie Jan 30, 2016 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318414)
My source is mainly comparing the list compiled by G.S with the list I keep.

Looks to me like weekly intl widebody flights are as follows (I removed Aeromexico & AC to MEX and Wow Air to KEF):

YVR: 258
YUL: 244

As you can see from the list, not only does YVR see more widebody intercontinental flights, the planes tend to be larger as well.

Just be careful as three of those Chinese airlines haven't been approved yet and I would think only one Tianjin will be approved anyway.

Factoring that in I would say YVR and YUL would be on par with each other for weekly flights with perhaps YVR tending to, on average, slightly more seats per aircraft.

Klazu Jan 30, 2016 1:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7318282)
I'm sure it's more than just a small handful of Vancouverites who are interested in exploring the unique culture and experience that is non-resort Cuba. I'm not particularly interested in sitting around at an all inclusive wasting a week of my life drinking and eating mediocre food.

I definitely want to see Cuba before they Americanize it with McDonald's on every corner. I don't care for their resorts or beaches, so also in my books a trip to Cuba != Hawaii. Totally different type of destination to vacation.

jmt18325 Jan 30, 2016 2:15 AM

Vancouver has Puerto Vallarta. In PV, I didn't (and wouldn't) stay in a resort. Vancouver isn't near the Caribbean, and it's not cold. It's as simple as that.

jthetzel Jan 30, 2016 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 7318263)
playing "spot the botulism-tainted chicken" at mealtimes.

Off-topic, but just wanted to mention that food-borne botulism is very rare and is not spread through consumption of poultry. The bacteria that produces the toxin needs a low-oxygen environment to grow, so outbreaks are classically associated with poor canning methods. Birds themselves can become infected with botulism (e.g. through eating decomposing stuff in marshlands), but it wouldn't be transmitted to humans, unless you have a habit of eating decomposing birds in low-oxygen environments. If you do find yourself with a nagging case of botulism, you most likely are a very dedicated user of intravenous heroin.


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