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-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

homebucket Aug 5, 2022 3:06 PM

PayPal Park in San Jose has a seating capacity of about 18,000.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/c...ya-stadium.jpg

roletand Aug 5, 2022 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho (Post 9694694)
This is what I don't understand about the plan. Why build a brand new arena (or Frankenstein remodel of the existing one) and only give it a 15,000 capacity? The smallest NBA arena is in New Orleans at almost 17,000. The brand new Chase Center in San Francisco is 18,000 and the Fiserv Arena in Milwaukee (also almost brand new) is 17,500. So we're going to build a new arena that still wouldn't be considered for a possible NBA team down the road? The smallest NHL arena is over 15,000. Even the redone Key Arena in Seattle (now Climate Pledge Arena) is over 17,000 and that was always a small arena when it was home to the Sonics.

Why not give the arena 17,500 capacity right off the bat? Concerts, NCAA Regionals for mens basketball, and you're set if and when an NBA or NHL team comes calling.

It sounds like the proposals are very intentionally limiting the size of the new arena. Take a read through this article from Voice of San Diego, excerpt below.

RIP to Sports Arena: As Plans Stand, City May Want to Take ‘Sports’ Out of the Name
Voice of San Diego
Scott Lewis
August 1, 2022
https://voiceofsandiego.org/2022/08/...t-of-the-name/

Quote:

Erik Judson, the CEO of JMI Sports, and a few others recently went to former Padres owner John Moores’ house to fete their friend Larry Lucchino for his induction into the Padres Hall of Fame because of his role in the construction of Petco Park.

In just five weeks, Judson’s team will celebrate the opening of their latest project, Snapdragon Stadium, in Mission Valley, when the San Diego State Aztecs host Arizona in the first football game at the new stadium.

Judson knows something about building big things like that and that’s why he’s the lead on the new arena part of the HometownSD team bidding on the new Sports Arena redevelopment plan.

But he has a message for sports fans who dream of this redevelopment plan bringing another big-league team to San Diego: It will not.

“If an owner came to town and wanted to bring an NBA or NHL team to San Diego – and they’re going to be very, very hesitant to do that given our proximity to LA and Orange County – they would be looking at other locations, not Midway,” he told me.

CaliNative Aug 6, 2022 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ucsbgaucho (Post 9694694)
This is what I don't understand about the plan. Why build a brand new arena (or Frankenstein remodel of the existing one) and only give it a 15,000 capacity? The smallest NBA arena is in New Orleans at almost 17,000. The brand new Chase Center in San Francisco is 18,000 and the Fiserv Arena in Milwaukee (also almost brand new) is 17,500. So we're going to build a new arena that still wouldn't be considered for a possible NBA team down the road? The smallest NHL arena is over 15,000. Even the redone Key Arena in Seattle (now Climate Pledge Arena) is over 17,000 and that was always a small arena when it was home to the Sonics.

Why not give the arena 17,500 capacity right off the bat? Concerts, NCAA Regionals for mens basketball, and you're set if and when an NBA or NHL team comes calling.

I have an idea. Put a new 17-18,000 seat Sports Arena on part of the Doug Manchester property that apparently he is not building on. It is just a trolley stop or two away from the convention center, East Village, Gaslamp etc. San Diego is the 8th largest city in the U.S. with almost 1.5 million, and now a medium sized metro with almost 4 million. A new arena (downtown, or maybe in Mission Valley or the UTC area with lots of parking and now a trolley line) would almost be certain of getting major league basketball and hockey. Of course, get a yes from the leagues before building, hopefully with some league and future team private money, not just public. Use the Midway for high density housing etc. The old arena (refurbished) could be kept as a smaller venue for events.

CaliNative Aug 6, 2022 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roletand (Post 9694715)
It sounds like the proposals are very intentionally limiting the size of the new arena. Take a read through this article from Voice of San Diego, excerpt below.

RIP to Sports Arena: As Plans Stand, City May Want to Take ‘Sports’ Out of the Name
Voice of San Diego
Scott Lewis
August 1, 2022
https://voiceofsandiego.org/2022/08/...t-of-the-name/

Philadelphia proximity to NYC and Baltimore to Washington didn't stop them from getting major league franchises. Same with Chicago/Milwaukee. If the league blocks expansion, sounds like grounds for a lawsuit, perhaps on antitrust grounds. Only baseball is protected, and only partially. SD already has MLB, and a good team at that :-)

bgrapes Aug 6, 2022 11:13 PM

Couple pics from today
 
8th and B
https://i.imgur.com/qE3x0TT.jpg?2

9th and Broadway as seen from Cortez Hill
https://i.imgur.com/rDHxMjy.jpg?1

Will O' Wisp Aug 7, 2022 5:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9695747)
Philadelphia proximity to NYC and Baltimore to Washington didn't stop them from getting major league franchises. Same with Chicago/Milwaukee. If the league blocks expansion, sounds like grounds for a lawsuit, perhaps on antitrust grounds. Only baseball is protected, and only partially. SD already has MLB, and a good team at that :-)

Based on what I understand of antitrust law, that wouldn't work. While antitrust does prevent the NBA or NHL from halting the formation of a new professional basketball or hockey team, there is nothing that requires them to allow that new team into their league.

In fact, all the teams probably have contracts that forbid them from playing games against outsiders. So you'd need to form your own sports league. That's what happened with XFL in the early 2000s.

What the antitrust laws really do is prevent the NBA or NHL from stopping a preexisting team from moving to San Diego. But it sound like a new arena at Midway probably isn't going encourage that on its own.

superfishy Aug 7, 2022 3:36 PM

at first glance, these look like good locations for a new arena aiming to lure an NBA/NHL team.

https://i.imgur.com/iicnVbO.png

roletand Aug 7, 2022 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgrapes (Post 9695759)
8th and B

That's a great picture of what's going on at Bosa's 8th & B project!

roletand Aug 7, 2022 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfishy (Post 9696061)
at first glance, these look like good locations for a new arena aiming to lure an NBA/NHL team.

The circle on the right is the MTS bus depot and I don't see that going anywhere soon.

As for the circle on the left, the "Premier" parking lot for Petco, I'd be curious to know if it's large enough for a stadium and if it has any fault lines running through it. The land is owned by JMI who are about to have their hands full with the redevelopment of Tailgate Park, if the deal goes through to purchase that land from San Diego.

mello Aug 7, 2022 6:42 PM

Arena
 
The obvious ideal site for a new arena is Tailgate Park which Peter Seidler (Padres Owner) is developing, not JMI as the last poster said. That parcel directly behind Petco where the Pedestrian bridge comes down to is not large enough for a modern 17k to 18.5k capacity arena. The tailgate park land area would have been a tight squeeze, there is no way it could fit on the acreage noted in the above image.

Does anyone know why this land right behind Petco has never been developed nor any plans announced?

----- Other places to put an arena: Mission Valley? Where, I can't think of anyplace that could fit it with parking unless you demolish Mission Valley Mall and do it there with added housing and some select retail.

UTC: There would be massive community opposition as that area will be getting very crowded with UCSD continuing to add new students and that big Biotech development going in across from the mall. Also where do you put it? The only place is possibly demolishing that old center with the Ralph's, Trader Joe's, and Best Buy off Nobel Dr.... There is a Trolley stop right there.

roletand Aug 7, 2022 7:02 PM

Thanks for the correction mello. I still have JMI and the Padres intertwined in my brain even though Moores hasn't owned the team for 10 years!

ucsbgaucho Aug 8, 2022 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliNative (Post 9695747)
Philadelphia proximity to NYC and Baltimore to Washington didn't stop them from getting major league franchises. Same with Chicago/Milwaukee. If the league blocks expansion, sounds like grounds for a lawsuit, perhaps on antitrust grounds. Only baseball is protected, and only partially. SD already has MLB, and a good team at that :-)

Orange County is too close to LA, which is why the Angels and Ducks don't have any fanbase anymore. San Diego is far enough away, the Raiders and Rams and Chargers all co-existed just fine in the 80s and 90s. The Ducks are 7th from the bottom in attendance, and the Phoenix Coyotes are 3rd to last, a team that will start playing in a 5,000 seat college arena soon. There's a couple franchises ripe for relocation.

Building a 15,000 seat arena just doesn't seem worthwhile. Either you're going to be a small venue for concerts, which SD already has the SDSU arena that is about that size, or you go big enough and high-end enough to attract a professional franchise. Just seems like they're thinking right in the middle in a no-man's land. They're wanting to build what is essentially the Honda Center in Anaheim, but not as big.

The Honda Center events calendar is full of bull riding, some concerts, WWE, and the Ducks. Capacity is just over 17,000, but it's not nearly as financially lucrative as Crypto Arena in LA.

Andy-4-SD Aug 9, 2022 3:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfishy (Post 9696061)
at first glance, these look like good locations for a new arena aiming to lure an NBA/NHL team.

https://i.imgur.com/iicnVbO.png

This could work if they decided to build over the rail yards (i.e. hudson yards). Realistically, thats 10-20 years out. Too many more feasible and favorable sites exist in the city today

Streamliner Aug 9, 2022 8:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy-4-SD (Post 9697738)
This could work if they decided to build over the rail yards (i.e. hudson yards). Realistically, thats 10-20 years out. Too many more feasible and favorable sites exist in the city today

I don't see them ever building over the rail yards here. Unlike Hudson Yards, these are at-grade with surrounding streets, and I'm sure there would be geotechnical issues (e.g. fault lines) that New York doesn't have.

Urbannizer Aug 9, 2022 8:42 PM

College Area Apartments

https://i.imgur.com/w978gZwh.jpg

La Jolla Construction

https://i.imgur.com/h7PIrakh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Jlrfx3dh.jpg

Streamliner Aug 9, 2022 9:10 PM

Thanks for the pics Urbannizer!

I'm happy to see more housing stock, but the foreground building's paint scheme in that first shot is like the definition of soulless.

Those second shots are UC San Diego, correct? I think that's the new Theater District neighborhood at the campus' southern edge

unpermitted_variance Aug 9, 2022 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streamliner (Post 9698176)

Those second shots are UC San Diego, correct? I think that's the new Theater District neighborhood at the campus' southern edge


Yep, looks like the 18- and 21-story towers are just about topped out and the 3 mid-rises are just barely above ground.


https://www.eyrc.com/hs-fs/hubfs/EYR...sdtdllc-01.jpg

More renders for the final project here:
https://www.eyrc.com/work/uc-san-die...g-neighborhood
https://plandesignbuild.ucsd.edu/_fi...2020Update.pdf


The site has also been cleared for the Pepper Canyon West Living and Learning Neighborhood:

https://plandesignbuild.ucsd.edu/_im...CanyonWest.jpg


https://oxblue.com/archive/731ef846a...?ts=1659727837

The university is also in the planning process for more high-rises to replace the Marshall Lower Apartments in the central campus area, but no details are available yet on that.

Streamliner Aug 9, 2022 11:41 PM

Exciting times for UCSD. They're creating quite the skyline there

HurricaneHugo Aug 10, 2022 9:59 AM

I wonder what UCSD (my alma matter!) is planning for the east side of former 6th college.

Streamliner Aug 10, 2022 3:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 9698573)
I wonder what UCSD (my alma matter!) is planning for the east side of former 6th college.

Fellow Triton here as well! I'm thinking they'll build a larger-scale version of Pepper Canyon West there. It'll be mostly housing since they'd have to demo a bunch of existing old housing. I imagine that area right next to the Trolley stop will be nice and dense in 10 years.


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