^From what I've read there was widespread opposition to the project, especially as the plans changed from 'Civic Square' to the indoor mall we have today [I'm sure somebody here has the blueprints for Civic Square and can upload them]. It would have been much better than what we have today, though still a far cry from the bustling market neighbourhood that once stood on that site.

Wow..
 

That is certainly the "lost Hamilton"... that quaint little corner was such a cool image to see, and I'm sure there were many more unique places that fell to the wrecking ball.. Thanks for that post, was thoughtfully put together.. Really makes you think..

It's always a dangerous thing to look back and 'judge' what previous generations did, having the luxury of hindsight and a more modern understanding of 'cause and effect'. Most comments I've read online that pillory those-who-wrought-such-devastation fall into this trap...and seem unwilling to make the effort to delve into the context of the times, which in this instance indeed, wasn't just a Hamilton-thing, but a mindset that had taken over North America and the entire world at this point, a mere two decades after our second world war in just over thirty years. People were clamouring for change more than they were for retaining (and respecting) the past.

Here's a good place to start, in terms of background information:
http://id.erudit.org/revue/uhr/2009/v37/n2/029577ar.pdf

In post 108 does anyone know the rought date that shot with the watertower just south of fennell was taken? My house is in that shot and I am hoping to used it to get a rough Idea of the age of my house.

Thanks

I understand that.. I also am very excited seeing the BOE building come down and the Mac Medical Campus go up.. Was just a thought, when I cut through so many parking lots where infill stood, now gone as my walking commute is so much quicker.. Absolutely every generation needs to leave their mark, and I wouldn't dare argue with that!

Answer for the post above re: post 108
 

Hi there.... the aerial photo of Fenell & Upper Wentworth is dated 1952. It is
in the digital online collection at the Hamilton Public Library.

The photo is misoriented. It's actually looking North. If you notice in the forefront the empty field is where Hillpark HS and Sackville park are now located. So that water tower photo predates the school. Most of those houses, North of Fennell were built in the late 40's and early 50's with the ones North of Inch Park being built even earlier.

I remember the water tower. It was torn down in the early 70's.

It's also dangerous to learn no lessons from past mistakes. When it comes to our vanished history, we SHOULD wonder "what were we thinking" or else we risk repeating the travesties. In the last 50-60 years, we have had a consistent track record of replacing good with bad, and have rarely replaced bad with better. We should not take any future demolition decisions lightly.

I was on Locke the other day and tried to take a picture from the exact same location as this turn-of-the-century photo:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...e1974/LOSO.jpg

Mine:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/a...4/DSCN3609.jpg

To me, the problem is always going to be...
 

...context and perspective.

1945-1960
1960-1990
1990-2012

Three entirely different eras, with entirely different influences and impacts, and to a great extent, three entirely different Hamiltons. (I'm thinking specifically of the downtown core.)

One town hall I'd love to produce would be a sortakinda 'workshop' where we would take Hamilton at 1955 and press 'Pause'. The participants -panel and audience- would then have a 'Mulligan'. With all the sincere tears cried over 'what was done', I'd love to hear and see how those-who-are-interested-enough-to-bother would redesign everything. From York Boulevard to 'Civic Square' to the loss of our Thomas Lamb gems, everything from Dundurn to Wellington, Burlington Street to the Escarpment. (Yes, I know I'm venturing out past the core, but it's my fantasy. LOL)

Naturally, we'd be looking at the knock-on effects of disparate decisions, and maybe even more than the different options, these might be the most difficult to grasp. You know, 'the butterfly effect'.

I think it would make for a 'fascinating' evening. Would you attend...?

^God knows we've all done the 'revisionist thing' often enough. I can't help but think it would be a terribly depressing occasion.

What pisses me off most about past decsions is that there were people - both citizens and those in the employ of the City - who knew it was the wrong call. Whether we're talking Jackson Square, City Hall, York Blvd, one-way streets or what have you, bs always seems to win out over evidence and reason.

Pete, with all due respect, I'd love to see some examples ('proof') of 'who knew it was the wrong call'. This might also be accompanied by WHY they supported it while knowing it was 'the wrong call'.

I am very suspicious of such statements. However, I'd love to see an honest exploration of 'The Downtown, 1955-85: How It All Happened, And Why There Weren't Any Real 'Demons' at Play'. : )

Evidence? Do you really expect me to scan through hundreds of microfilms from mid-century Hamilton papers / periodicals and footnote my responses? This is not a PhD dissertation...

From the accounts I've read over the years, there was opposition to all of the mega projects that so characterize our downtown today. The concepts of slow-moving / two-way traffic, walkability, public space etc., are not new in any way shape or form. Jane Jacobs wrote 'The Death and Life of Great American Cities' in 1961. While she was at the vanguard of this movement, she was not just a voice in the wilderness; Hamiltonians recognised the pitfalls of modern planning policies, too.

When the roof top plaza was proposed for Jackson Square to appease opponents to the project, people knew it wouldn't work. With no eyes from the street it would be unsafe and unfriendly and big shock, it is.

When Hamilton Place was proposed, people opposed it because they knew it would eventually result in the loss of existing theatres downtown. Again, that's exactly how things turned out.

How about York Boulevard? Do you think there was widespread support for the expropriation of all those businesses and homes? Not a chance.

All of these things happened because the City refused to listen to reason. They had an idea and they were going to push their agenda come hell or high water.

Personally, I feel the onus is on you to discover this 'proof' that you so avidly seek. Happy reading.

Fascinating. Except that all you've done is note that some people felt that way about those things. This is what you originally said: "What pisses me off most about past decsions is that there were people - both citizens and those in the employ of the City - who knew it was the wrong call. Whether we're talking Jackson Square, City Hall, York Blvd, one-way streets or what have you, bs always seems to win out over evidence and reason."

A bit over-the-top. (As was your crankiness.)

"They refused to listen." Strikes me as rather melodramatic. You make it sound like some bureaucratic behemoth ran roughshod over the city, leaving the bewildered and the beleaguered in its wake. And that these 'voices of reason' though loud, were tragically drowned out. I know the truth to be just a little different than that. This is the danger of looking back and imposing current views on something that unfolded in an entirely different time.

"Personally, I feel the onus is on you to discover this 'proof' that you so avidly seek. Happy reading." I've already done my research, but thanks. What I was looking for was a little dialogue, but clearly, you're waaaaaay too attached to how you need things to be framed retroactively. Happy kvetching and kibbitzing.

Awwww sorry Schmadrian. It's true. I'm more than a little cranky, though far less so away from Skyscraperpage.

I've simply recounted what I've read over the years about Hamilton's wonderful attempts at urban renewal. I know you're not impressed with my anecdotes. ;)

Anyway, here's some fascinating reading for you and anybody else who's interested. This file also has some great images of the planned Civic Square.

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&...RegqPXEwEhNifw

Facebook Page - Vintage Hamilton

Great place for people to post old, unseen photos of Hamilton.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Vintag...57013597650273

Treasures from the past
 

Like many of you renovating in this town, I wonder how many have found treasure from the past like this I found during a fireplace renew.

It tells the true story of when the house was constructed (1914!). It's older than I had thought! As far as I can make out, it says "J.W. Midgley 4/ 4/ 14".
Before
http://i47.tinypic.com/345cwu9.jpg
Buried treasure
http://i46.tinypic.com/16jq1rc.jpg
After
http://i47.tinypic.com/wasp4y.jpg

A relative of any of yours?

Best of Hamilton Video Series
 

A very well produced 'Best of Hamilton' YouTube series of Hamilton sights. Worth a look! :tup::thankyouthankyou:

'Subscribe' worthy as they keep adding new ones!
:previous:

Dr. Disk (HD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubdsU...Agq52Zr6tm7-dQ

Super Crawl 2012 (HD)
http://youtu.be/8dYjeQOV0AQ?hd=1

Albion Falls in (HD)
http://youtu.be/DdJGm12LF1w?hd=1&t=3s


Also check their news feed on the book of faces: http://www.facebook.com/cdspark#!/Be...milton?fref=ts

That signature on the fireplace looks like it says G. Midgley.

In the 1911 census there is a George Wm. Midgley living at 1 Regent St in Hamilton. He was a Tile Setter for Kent-Garvin and worked 52 weeks, 44 hours per week for an annual pay of $730.

http://automatedgenealogy.com/census...w.jsp?id=31139
(from what I can tell a portion of Garfield Ave S. was named Regent and this address would be at approx. the corner of Dunsmure).

The 1922 city directory listing for Kent-Garvin:
KENT, GARVIN & CO, LTD, Ernest
E Kent, mgr, builders hardware,
mantles, tiles, etc, 10-20 Catharine
St North

Neat. If true, that existing tilework might have been almost a century old. Treasure from the past, right out there in the open.