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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

hollywoodcory Oct 5, 2022 5:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 9751560)
AC does not operate YVR-DFW or YVR-AUS in winter, so adding YVR-IAH is an increase from YVR (increase from zero flights to Texas to once daily mainline). Although it is taking over from UA for the deep winter period, AC's claim is true since they aren't counting UA operated flights.

From YYC I have lost track of what AC operates normally and what their plans are, so couldn't say if they are gaining, losing, or staying the same.

It says “Western Canada” not Vancouver. They replaced a planned 2x daily YYC-IAH with a single daily YVR-IAH.

But I guess if you rule out UA, it’s technically true as AC hasn’t operated to IAH from anywhere in Western Canada since March 2020.

thewave46 Oct 5, 2022 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9751586)
Calgary is losing a lot of AC.

It’s almost as if Calgary is a fortress hub for another airline and that bleeding cash being second fiddle there is not the best use of resources.

whatnext Oct 5, 2022 4:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewave46 (Post 9751719)
It’s almost as if Calgary is a fortress hub for another airline and that bleeding cash being second fiddle there is not the best use of resources.

AC is Canada's largest airline so even if WS is dominant there would still be a market for them there.

thewave46 Oct 5, 2022 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9752011)
AC is Canada's largest airline so even if WS is dominant there would still be a market for them there.

Air Canada isn't abandoning Calgary. They have better than a dozen destinations on mainline plus a bunch of on Air Canada Express.

They're just not focusing growth there because a company with scarce extra resources is going to focus on places that yield better profits than the primary hub of their competitor.

Especially when that hub is relatively small compared to the other major airports at which they operate.

It makes more sense of AC to beef up YYZ, YUL, and YVR. Even if it means forgoing YYC expansion.

Denscity Oct 5, 2022 5:36 PM

Very grateful that Vancouver is very strong with both Air Canada and WestJet. No other airport in the country seems to be strong with both.

thewave46 Oct 5, 2022 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9752137)
Very grateful that Vancouver is very strong with both Air Canada and WestJet. No other airport in the country seems to be strong with both.

Toronto?

Denscity Oct 5, 2022 6:46 PM

Not any more sounds like. Used to be yes.

hollywoodcory Oct 5, 2022 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9751586)
Calgary is losing a lot of AC.

It isn't as dramatic as Johnny is making it out to be in the YVR threads. Sure AC isn't back to 2019 levels at YYC, but the planned winter sked is still an increase compared to a year ago.

-EWR / LAX / SJD are added.
-LAS / FRA / LHR have increased frequency. (LHR was down to like 2x weekly for a period last winter).
-PHX is mainline (was a CR9 last year).
-OGG resumes 2 weeks earlier than it did a year ago.

The only route they flew last year that isn't coming back is HNL.

AC is still the largest carrier from YYC to Europe over the winter months too. (I believe they also have more flights to Europe from YYC than YVR in the winter, but I could be wrong).

hehehe Oct 5, 2022 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9752328)
It isn't as dramatic as Johnny is making it out to be in the YVR threads. Sure AC isn't back to 2019 levels at YYC, but the planned winter sked is still an increase compared to a year ago.

-EWR / LAX / SJD are added.
-LAS / FRA / LHR have increased frequency. (LHR was down to like 2x weekly for a period last winter).
-PHX is mainline (was a CR9 last year).
-OGG resumes 2 weeks earlier than it did a year ago.

The only route they flew last year that isn't coming back is HNL.

AC is still the largest carrier from YYC to Europe over the winter months too. (I believe they also have more flights to Europe from YYC than YVR in the winter, but I could be wrong).

And there seems to be crew/staff shortages that could be affecting recovery as well. I don't really know why it's such a dramatic deal either, it could be temporary for a lot of the cuts. WS isn't even that large in YVR. It definitely has a considerable presence but it's kind of odd to pretend like AC has turned YYC into an outstation while WS is 'very strong' at YVR.

casper Oct 5, 2022 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9752426)
And there seems to be crew/staff shortages that could be affecting recovery as well. I don't really know why it's such a dramatic deal either, it could be temporary for a lot of the cuts. WS isn't even that large in YVR. It definitely has a considerable presence but it's kind of odd to pretend like AC has turned YYC into an outstation while WS is 'very strong' at YVR.

It is important because it is a first step in building out a series of flights from the US that are timed to work with the flights to Asia. If it works out it has a lot of potential.

hollywoodcory Oct 5, 2022 9:06 PM

Also KLM says it may have to cut 30 routes if AMS cuts back on flight movements and it mentions YEG & YUL as examples of routes it may lose.

https://www.upinthesky.nl/2022/10/05/klm-2/ (story is in dutch).

But here's an partial English translation:

Quote:

Prior to a debate that will take place tomorrow, KLM has warned the chamber about the consequences of Schiphol's intended shrinkage. This decrease in the number of flights, at the initiative of the cabinet, may make destinations such as Tel Aviv, Istanbul, Kiev, Porto and Belgrade disappear, De Telegraaf reports. Outside Europe, this would involve various destinations, including Montreal, Edmonton, Boston and Taipei. Osaka in Japan and less common destinations in China such as Xiamen and Ghangzhou may also be cancelled.

nname Oct 5, 2022 9:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9752328)
It isn't as dramatic as Johnny is making it out to be in the YVR threads. Sure AC isn't back to 2019 levels at YYC, but the planned winter sked is still an increase compared to a year ago.

-EWR / LAX / SJD are added.
-LAS / FRA / LHR have increased frequency. (LHR was down to like 2x weekly for a period last winter).
-PHX is mainline (was a CR9 last year).
-OGG resumes 2 weeks earlier than it did a year ago.

The only route they flew last year that isn't coming back is HNL.

AC is still the largest carrier from YYC to Europe over the winter months too. (I believe they also have more flights to Europe from YYC than YVR in the winter, but I could be wrong).

Yes, AC only fly to LHR from YVR during winter. LH (and 4Y) operates the FRA route during winter.

If you want a quantitive measure... here is the % of weekly departure of W22 schedule compared to W19 of all AC stations with more than 150 weekly flights:

YYZ: 80%
YVR: 81%
YUL: 88%
YYC: 71%
YOW: 70%
YHZ: 49%
YEG: 59%

Data is just a rough estimate, based on a random week in March 2019/2022. Likely there will be further cut made to W22 in the coming weeks as some of the recent cuts are only applied up to Jan 15.

Order is based on number of departures in W19.

YYCguys Oct 5, 2022 9:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9752478)
Also KLM says it may have to cut 30 routes if AMS cuts back on flight movements and it mentions YEG & YUL as examples of routes it may lose.

https://www.upinthesky.nl/2022/10/05/klm-2/ (story is in dutch).

But here's an partial English translation:

Wonder if this will affect Westjet’s newly announced return to AMS this winter!

hehehe Oct 5, 2022 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 9752548)
Wonder if this will affect Westjet’s newly announced return to AMS this winter!

I would assume these sort of capacity restrictions primarily affect the more established and larger carriers at ams (like KLM, Easyjet, Transavia, TUI etc) than airlines like AC or WS who only have one daily and 3 weekly flights to AMS.

Denscity Oct 5, 2022 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9752478)
Also KLM says it may have to cut 30 routes if AMS cuts back on flight movements and it mentions YEG & YUL as examples of routes it may lose.

https://www.upinthesky.nl/2022/10/05/klm-2/ (story is in dutch).

But here's an partial English translation:

Another international loss for Montreal.
And poor YEG doesn't need that news.

Coldrsx Oct 5, 2022 11:30 PM

KLM and AMS are absolutely vital for YEG, but with the new constraints it seems inevitable given yield driven planning.

People_talking Oct 5, 2022 11:39 PM

In other news there is this:

Partnership between the WestJet Group and the GOA sets foundation for future of aviation

WestJet will designate YYC Calgary International Airport as its single global connecting hub and will concentrate all intercontinental 787 Dreamliner flying in Calgary, unlocking opportunity for new routes within North America, to Europe, with the potential to reach Asia. Alongside the 787s, WestJet will grow its mid-range fleet and strengthen its North American offerings, with its commitment to double capacity in Calgary before the end of the decade.

WestJet will up their YYC base from 60 to 100 aircraft




https://www.westjet.com/en-ca/news/2...ter%3A20221005

Denscity Oct 6, 2022 12:01 AM

YVR creates YVR Express where you can reserve a spot at security.

hehehe Oct 6, 2022 12:05 AM

So WS wants to double capacity at YYC in less than ten years according to their release.
"WestJet will designate YYC Calgary International Airport as its single global connecting hub and will concentrate all intercontinental 787 Dreamliner flying in Calgary" -What does this mean for YVR-LGW?
So I guess we can expect new European routes from YYC then.

thenoflyzone Oct 6, 2022 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9752281)
Not any more sounds like. Used to be yes.

What are you talking about ? WS is still strong in YYZ. In terms of number of destinations served, they have YVR beat.

And based on the press release a few posts up, looks like you can kiss goodbye to any WS dreamliners flying long haul out of YVR as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9752624)
Another international loss for Montreal..

Calm down...lol

1. All of this is speculative right now. Nothing is happening just yet. This is a KL pressure tactic. Let’s see if it works.
2. YUL has more than one carrier operating to AMS, so we won't be losing an international destination.
3. Even if KL leaves, AF will up frequency in a heartbeat from CDG in order to make up for the lost frequency. This is AF-KL we are talking about after all. They are one and the same airline. They have the most flights/seats from their 2 hubs to YUL compared to any other city in Canada. It’s a given AF will try and take up the slack at most destinations from which KL pulls out of. Not sure if YEG would get AF though. It’s not impossible.


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