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casper Feb 15, 2022 5:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9536812)
Why is it good to see?

Two reasons:

- I don't think the ULCC model makes any sense in Canada. In Europe where there are many more options include rail to deal with service recovery it can work. In Canada, Flair has consistently demonstrated an inability to properly do service recover either using their own metal or my moving passenger onto other airlines.

- For many smaller stations, e.g. Victoria, Saskatoon, etc. they have a tendency to go after the low lying fruit. Basically routes where they can operate point-to-point. That means fewer flights from network operators (e.g. WestJet, Delta, Air Canada, Alaska etc.) that offer access to a wider nation or inter-national network of destinations. As a result these communities are losing access to the global transportation network that is needed to support a wide variety of business and tourism based travel.

If Flair had asperations to become a network operator with connections even if just on their own metal through their hubs I would by more sympathetic. They don't.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 10:49 AM

It looks like WestJet has completely removed Edmonton YEG - Ottawa YOW nonstop Domestic flights for Summer 2022 & the rest of the year! Only connecting WS flights are available on this route.

Basically WS has downgraded its Edmonton- Ottawa service for Swoop Airlines to operate (seasonal) flights from end of April- end of October.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9536910)
Two reasons:

- I don't think the ULCC model makes any sense in Canada. In Europe where there are many more options include rail to deal with service recovery it can work. In Canada, Flair has consistently demonstrated an inability to properly do service recover either using their own metal or my moving passenger onto other airlines.

- For many smaller stations, e.g. Victoria, Saskatoon, etc. they have a tendency to go after the low lying fruit. Basically routes where they can operate point-to-point. That means fewer flights from network operators (e.g. WestJet, Delta, Air Canada, Alaska etc.) that offer access to a wider nation or inter-national network of destinations. As a result these communities are losing access to the global transportation network that is needed to support a wide variety of business and tourism based travel.

If Flair had asperations to become a network operator with connections even if just on their own metal through their hubs I would by more sympathetic. They don't.

Agree! Good example of it :Edmonton YEG - Ottawa YOW on WestJet is gone for 2022 Summer season & rest of this year by the looks of it= fewer WS nonstop flights available from its network for YEG to YOW! Only connecting WS flights is still available on this route through Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver & Winnipeg.

Sure Swoop Airlines is operating in place of WS and seasonal flights on YEG- YOW from end of April- end of October but it’s limited upto 3-5 weekly’s.

Coldrsx Feb 15, 2022 3:55 PM

https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/ima...uIlfFQ58ZL4ugc
https://www.linkedin.com/company/cal...V5nAKoBg%3D%3D

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 4:17 PM

That’s a nice new Lynx Air Boeing 737Max 8 plane ✈️ which was delivered to its Calgary YYC Hub yesterday. 2 more still to be delivered before they start up in April 2022.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 4:19 PM

Also looks like Swoop Airlines has announced plans they’re extending seasonal services to San Diego, Palm Springs, Las Vegas, St. Pete-Clearwater, Orlando (Sanford) and Phoenix (Mesa) into the summer 2022 season.

Not too surprising as those are popular sun US destinations for people from Canada!

https://skiesmag.com/press-releases/...u-s-expansion/

Dominion301 Feb 15, 2022 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9536740)
Clearly WS is working on killing off Flair. That is good to see. Surprised Air Canada is not jumping in as well.

So less competition is better?

Good to see WestJet continue to use Swoop in a predatory manner. Why aren't AC doing the same? AC has bigger fish to fry than worrying about Flair.

Flair is a huge threat to WS, whereas they're a minor nuisance for AC.

whatnext Feb 15, 2022 6:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9537479)
So less competition is better?

Good to see WestJet continue to use Swoop in a predatory manner. Why aren't AC doing the same? AC has bigger fish to fry than worrying about Flair.

Flair is a huge threat to WS, whereas they're a minor nuisance for AC.

There's a reason that one of former AC VP Ben Smith's first actions in taking over Air France was cancelling their "airline within an airline". They rarely work and they're terrible for employee morale. It is sad that WS, who previously advertised "Westjetters Care", has now drifted so far from what originally made them unique.

casper Feb 15, 2022 7:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9537509)
There's a reason that one of former AC VP Ben Smith's first actions in taking over Air France was cancelling their "airline within an airline". They rarely work and they're terrible for employee morale. It is sad that WS, who previously advertised "Westjetters Care", has now drifted so far from what originally made them unique.

As a passenger Swoop provides no additional network connectivity since it is all point to point with no interline with WestJet. Toss in Swoop marginal reputation for service recovery.

At least with AC Rouge it was part of the network. Crappy seat layout but that comes with every airline these days.

thewave46 Feb 15, 2022 9:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9537545)
As a passenger Swoop provides no additional network connectivity since it is all point to point with no interline with WestJet. Toss in Swoop marginal reputation for service recovery.

At least with AC Rouge it was part of the network. Crappy seat layout but that comes with every airline these days.

There is a reason Swoop isn’t something like ‘Westjet Teal’.

Westjet doesn’t want its brand tarnished. The general public who flies doesn’t know Swoop is owned by Westjet. So when Swoop gives the Ryanair experience (cheap but terrible), it is no skin of Westjet’s back, since they don’t have any visible connection. Yeah, they may compete with themselves, but bleeding out the ULCC competition matters more.

nname Feb 15, 2022 10:13 PM

Looks like Flair is more worried about Lynx than Swoop though.

Flair just added the third daily YVR-YYC flight this summer. Now they schedule 20x weekly flights for the summer. That's the most they've schedule on a single route.

Also YVR-ANC is added for the summer. Might have other new routes from other bases, so announcement may be coming.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9537861)
Looks like Flair is more worried about Lynx than Swoop though.

Flair just added the third daily YVR-YYC flight this summer:

F8 87/88 - x146
F8 287/288 - cancelled
F8 401/402 - daily
F8 1287/1288 - daily
F8 2287/2288 - 14

That's the most they've schedule on a single route.

Not surprising, as Summer seasons are usually good time for all Airlines to increase its frequencies!
Air Canada & WestJet are likely add few extra Calgary to Vancouver YVR flights too probably & competition will heat up on it.

Calfan12 Feb 15, 2022 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9537861)
Looks like Flair is more worried about Lynx than Swoop though.

Flair just added the third daily YVR-YYC flight this summer. Now they schedule 20x weekly flights for the summer. That's the most they've schedule on a single route.

Also YVR-ANC is added for the summer. Might have other new routes from other bases, so announcement may be coming.

Vancouver YVR- Anchorage ANC, US is already flown by Air Canada during Summers Seasonally & Flair will have competition on it.

AC’s YVR - ANC returns again in May 2022 & operating until mid September.

nname Feb 15, 2022 11:06 PM

Well, Flair's schedule time is better for those "cheap" cruise passengers who want to maximize their time at Anchorage without an extra hotel stay and an extra day off work :D

hollywoodcory Feb 15, 2022 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9536559)
THE ULCC'S ARE FIGHTING AGAIN

Swoop launching:

Burbank-Edmonton
Chicago-Toronto
Nashville-Toronto
Nashville-Edmonton
New York (JFK) - Toronto
San Francisco - Edmonton

All of which are routes Flair announced back in December.

Also, Flair is getting set to announce another American expansion tonight, unclear of which routes yet though.

There's been rumors that WS was gonna launch YYZ-ORD for a couple of months now. Be kinda interesting if they gave it over to WO, just to spite Flair.

whatnext Feb 15, 2022 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9537898)
Vancouver YVR- Anchorage ANC, US is already flown by Air Canada during Summers Seasonally & Flair will have competition on it.

AC’s YVR - ANC returns again in May 2022 & operating until mid September.

And given that this is largely a cruise route and many of those are frequent fliers/points members, it is hard to see how Flair will be that successful on it.

Looks like they're just throwing everything up there and see what sticks to service their expensive debt,.

casper Feb 15, 2022 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext (Post 9537938)
And given that this is largely a cruise route and many of those are frequent fliers/points members, it is hard to see how Flair will be that successful on it.

Looks like they're just throwing everything up there and see what sticks to service their expensive debt,.

This will only work if Flair has a deal with the cruise lines.

Many of the cruise lines are doing "Free air" or other bundled air options. If flair has made a bulk purchase deal with some cruise lines it would work. If not most foreigners are not going to know to even look at flair.

Calfan12 Feb 16, 2022 12:45 AM

Lynx Air today announced Calgary YYC - Victoria BC starting with
2x weekly from May 12
3x weekly from June 22

Not too surprising as Lynx is building up its YYC hub 1st, by the looks of it.

Basically competition on Calgary- Victoria Canada routing is also heating up with WestJet and Air Canada daily service & Lynx and Flair flying it a few times weekly.

https://www.cheknews.ca/canadas-ultr...st-953915/?amp

Summer 2022 YYC will have a total of 30 weekly Lynx departures:
Vancouver YVR 14x weekly
Toronto YYZ 7x weekly
Winnipeg YWG 4x weekly
Victoria YYJ 3x weekly
Kelowna YLW 2x weekly

Alexcaban Feb 16, 2022 1:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calfan12 (Post 9537898)
Vancouver YVR- Anchorage ANC, US is already flown by Air Canada during Summers Seasonally & Flair will have competition on it.

AC’s YVR - ANC returns again in May 2022 & operating until mid September.

More changes are loaded

YUL-BOS 1 AC 220, with others Jazz.
YUL/YYZ-MIA Rouge to mainline 2x daily 220
YUL-SAN Rouge to mainline A220

YUL-YQM/YYG/YQB Jazz to Rouge A319s
(YQB 4x A319, 1x CRJ)

Calfan12 Feb 16, 2022 2:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9537861)
Looks like Flair is more worried about Lynx than Swoop though.

Flair just added the third daily YVR-YYC flight this summer. Now they schedule 20x weekly flights for the summer. That's the most they've schedule on a single route.

Also YVR-ANC is added for the summer. Might have other new routes from other bases, so announcement may be coming.

WestJet Calgary YYC- Vancouver YVR route will be up to 12x daily this upcoming Summer 2022 by the looks of it.

While Air Canada Calgary - Vancouver flights will be up to 10x daily this Summer.

WestJet & Air Canada Calgary- Toronto route is up to 11x daily for both airlines this Summer.

Also WestJet’s Edmonton YEG- Calgary YYC flights is up to 11x Daily Monday- Friday & upto 7x daily on weekends this Summer.

It’s not just only Flair increasing its flights, WS & AC doing it as well too✅!!


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