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In my experience most disdain for hockey is a result of it dominating media coverage over someone's preferred sport.
I'm a regular visitor to the Raptors and Blue Jays subreddits, and for the most part your typical visitor is a fan (at least casually) of the 3 big teams in the city. However, you do come across the odd post trashing the Leafs and their fans. There is a large population of Raptors fans in the community from across Canada so it could be them just supporting their local NHL team. Though it often comes across as "Fuck the Leafs, people should be coming out to support the Raptors and TSN should be giving them more coverage." |
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NFL is not the classic American game. NFL (modern) was created for the TV age and is much a product of modern Americana just as much as Disney was. The classic American game is very much baseball. That is the sport the nation grew up with and is largely the sport interwoven into classic USA history. NFL was not taken seriously in America up until the 1970s.
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For the record I'm not any more impressed by the dead suits who occupy lots of seats at hockey games, especially in Toronto and Montreal. |
Most of the people in that photo look pretty young, and a large majority look like they could be first or second generation immigrants. There is no doubt that basketball and the Raptors are by far the most popular among kids of East Indian, Chinese, Filipino, and Jamaican descent in Toronto.
Sure, the numbers will probably dwindle if the Raptors decline. However I think the last 5 years have created a solid, permanent fan base among a racially diverse young cohort in this city. |
I think, wherever you might be, the "top sport" will be seen to be eroding, and other "new" or "foreign" sports growing, just because due to the internet people are exposed to sports from all over the world. In theory, it could level out so that there was a proportionate amount of support for any number of sports. That obviously won't happen due to history/culture, etc, but it's not like hockey is going to die because lots of people like basket ball.
I'm clearly an outlier in this thread though. I'm 24, and these days I'm only really interested in CFL and rugby. Never really got into hockey since I never played, but I don't mind watching it. I have no interest in baseball, soccer or basketball though. I've tried to get into NFL but without a connection to any of the teams I have nothing emotionally invested. I've even been dropping off on watching rugby since I don't actually care about any those cities in England/Aus/NZ, and Canada is so terrible now. But the Ontario Arrows will hopefully join MLR next year :cheers: |
Interesting that the Winnipeg Blue Bombers draw similar revenue to that of many MLS teams including the New York Red Bulls at $32 million
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-soccer-teams/ https://globalnews.ca/news/4153348/w...-in-the-black/ |
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the bombers situation is unique though as they are paying $1 million a year to charter busses for fans to reach IGF field in the south end of the city until the new rapid transit line is built in 2020 to the stadium. As well the team pays around $ 4 million per year on their stadium loan that they have to finance for the next 35 years. I believe every CFL team is currently profitable except for BC Montreal and Toronto. Teams need to hover around the 22000 attendance figure per game to break even.
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Don't know about the Lions but before the big TSN deals the word was that a team needed around 24k to break even, the CFL's arch nemesis Arash Madani a year or two ago (I can't recall when) said it is now 18k to break even. Regardless, as I posted in the CFL thread the Bombers had a great year (almost doubling their previous years profit) and if I read correctly are starting to claw back some of that transit money. The Club alone continues to fund the public transportation program for transit and park and ride services to and from Investors Group Field. The Club has operated the public transportation program since 2013 and has paid for all expenditures related to the program, totalling over $3.8 million. In 2017, Triple B Stadium Inc. formally acknowledged their legal obligation to fund a portion of the public transportation program, retroactive to 2013 and onward. The Club will continue its efforts to recover the payments due from Triple B. The Club recorded a payment to Triple B of $3.5 million, the Club’s fourth annual scheduled excess cash payment as required by the Club’s Management Agreement with Triple B. This was in addition to paying the City of Winnipeg $1.3 million, which was related to an earlier Winnipeg Enterprises Corporation debt that was assigned to the Club by the City of Winnipeg in 2005 |
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Now, I can't think of a single kid I've come across who is into CFL other than my coworker's fellow Argos season ticket holder friend's son I met at the Grey Cup celebration. He also happens to play tackle football. And I have been an asst. coach in Halton NFL Flag Football for three seasons now. And been on the other sideline as a spectator for a further four. One of the cool things about this league is that I got to talk shop and re-hash old memories with Chris Schultz and Bob O'billovich. Obie is a regular. Schultzy was the one time. And surprisingly, even though Pinball lives in Oakville (unless he moved), I haven't come across him yet. Did get to see him speak in a church in Brampton 20 years ago though. |
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A team like TFC loses something like $5M/year but makes $50M in revenues and spends $20M on player salaries. That $20M is four times the CFL salary cap. Teams like Winnipeg and Sask are profitable but I imagine that isn't the same story in BC/Montreal, gauging from what we know that's available. |
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When I was a teen I don't recall the immigrant dads of my friends being hostile in that way to gridiron football. They were mostly indifferent, maybe in some cases mystified by the allure of a sport with so many stoppages in play. But definitely not hostile. It was clear for all of my friends' dads that soccer was their preference and most of them also adopted at least a passing interest in hockey - as part of their Canadian integration I suppose. Which, although it hasn't been mentioned on here, is not that difficult a cognitive move to make for a soccer fan given that hockey in some ways is kind of like a faster, higher-scoring soccer with skates on ice. A lot of the aspects of the game are reasonably similar: goalkeepers, nets, offsides, players sent off, player positions, etc. Anyway I have no idea why such a hostility towards gridiron football has developed like this. (My sample size in both cases is probably a half-dozen men for each.) |
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My guess is that most do not. Why is that? Because a lot of those people also happen to be soccer fans too! Liking more than one thing! What a concept! That's what normal people are usually like! :P |
^You're just talking nonsense now. :haha:
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Also, many immigrants I know, including my own parents, don't fully buy in into the new country's culture. What I mean is that while they're happy to be here and acknowledge all the overwhelming positives of democracy, freedom, safety and so on, there's still a feeling that the home country's culture is not just different, but better. The food is better, the music is better, and yes, the sports are better. Which is understandable - we become attached to what we grow up with, and especially so once nostalgia is added to the mix when we have to leave it behind. But I think this phenomenon might play into what you're saying as well. I have no idea if the football hostility thing is common in the US too, but to go back to the previous conversation, what I'll finish on is that hockey is one of the strongest aspects of Canadian culture and should be more resistant to these issues. But if it's not, I wonder if it's just that it's relative popularity is dropping, or if people are just less interested in sports these days and that's what creates that impression. |
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^ There are a lot of Central and Eastern European immigrants in my family and the only sport they get excited for is soccer. There is at least an awareness of hockey but the rest of the sports world might as well not exist. But it doesn't really translate to antipathy towards other sports... Super Bowl, Grey Cup, NCAA March Madness, etc. are just background noise to be ignored.
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Certainly soccer is growing fast in the U.S. (due at least in part to immigrants) whereas the NFL seems stagnant or even eroding very slowly. I don't think it's anywhere close to the point where this might be an issue though. |
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From April 12:
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@BillBrioux MON o'nites CBC Leafs-Bruins Game 3 2380k SNet TB-NJ 340k SNet Nash-Avs 508k SNet360 WWE Raw 340k From April 19: @BillBriouxTV THURS o'nites CBC Leafs-Bruins 4 2227k SNet NHL Wash-Col 280k SNet1 Jays-Yankees 580k |
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This would mean that, using current exchange rates, $32.5MCAD in revenue by the Blue Bombers would be similar to the $25MUSD revenue put up by the Montreal Impact in the MLS, putting it roughly in the bottom third of MLS revenue. TFC's revenue, posted at $46MUSD, would be $59MCAD. Whitecaps' revenue of $20MUSD would work out to roughly $25MCAD. This would also mean that, similar to NHL teams, Canadian MLS teams would receive parts of their revenue in Canadian dollars (STHs, Game Day, etc.) and then it's converted to USD (similar to their own TV contracts). They also have to pay salaries in USD, as well, which puts a tighter strain on things considering whatever situation the franchise is in at the time. AFAIK Canadian MLS teams would, in turn, be receiving MLS sponsorship funding in USD (jersey deals or general league sponsorships). |
@billbriouxTV
SATURDAY'S Round 1, Game 5 #HNiC LEAFS-BRUINS o'nite take: 2516k viewers. SAME AFT: SNet, Wash-Columbus 519k Leafs/Caps last year was hitting the 3.5M mark (I think one of the games hit 3.62M), so this year has seen a decent drop for the Leafs on CBC/Rogers. |
Wednesday, April 25:
NHL Toronto/Boston 4.2M (CBC/Sportsnet) NBA Washington/Toronto 631K (TSN) MLB Boston/Toronto 347K (SN1) MLS Toronto/Chivas 313K (TSN2) The 4.2M Leafs Game 7 rating is similar to the following: 2017 CFL GC Calgary/Toronto 4.3M (TSN/RDS) 2017 NHL ECF Ottawa/Pittsburgh Game 7 4.29M (Sportsnet) 2010 NHL ECQF Montreal/Pittsburgh Game 7 4.24M (CBC) 2018 NHL ECQF Toronto/Boston Game 7 4.2M (CBC/Sportsnet) 2015 MLB ALDS Toronto/Texas Game 3 4.2M (Sportsnet) The Leafs average ratings for the seven game series slots in to the same level that a non-Canada SCF ends up as. |
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How come since the Leafs were knocked out of round 1 we are getting no ratings updates for the Jets games in round 2?
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I can tell you all about how well Vegas and Nashville are doing on NBCSN but this is the Canadian thread, so... :tup: |
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Typical Eastern Canada media bias if the leafs or habs aren't competing they just give up and don't even bother tracking Western Canadian teams tv ratings.
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The #StanleyCup Playoffs Round 2 series between the @NHLJets & @PredsNHL on @Sportsnet & @CBC marks the most-watched Jets post-season series in 2.0 franchise history. The best-of-7 series garnered an average TV audience of 2.2M hockey fans & reached more than 13.7M Canadians @SportsnetPR Thursday’s sudden-death Game 7 showdown on @Sportsnet & @CBC received franchise-record ratings, with an average audience of 3 million viewers tuning in, making it the most-watched @NHLJets broadcast ever. #HomeofHockey #AllFortheCup @BillBriouxTV: THURS o'nites CTV BigBang S11 finale 2776k YoungSheldon 1948k CBC NHL Round 2 G7 'Peg/Nash 1744k GLO BigBroCan finale 956k Would be 1.75M on CBC and 1.25M on Sportsnet for Jets Game 7. |
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Good numbers for the Jets in the second round.
For perspective, last year, Ottawa-rangers series and Edmonton-Anaheim series averaged 1.7 million per game last year. Ottawa's most watched game in round 2 against the Rangers averaged 2.4 million. http://www.obj.ca/article/ticket-pri...tanley-cup-run |
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Interview: There was never going to be a quick fix, Alouettes president says "We're in a tough spot. We have been for some time now," Montreal Alouettes president Patrick Boivin says HERB ZURKOWSKY, MONTREAL GAZETTE More from Herb Zurkowsky, Montreal Gazette Published on: October 17, 2017 | Last Updated: October 17, 2017 2:07 PM EDT “We’re in a tough spot. We have been for some time now. Our metrics are not increasing. A lot of that is in direct relationship to the team’s performance,” Boivin said. “They want to see this team come back. They’re willing to be as patient as needed — not overly patient, but certainly more than a year. “They understand this business isn’t going to be turned around in a year, especially when it’s correlated to the football performance. The business has not been tracking forward. It’s been regressing slowly, year after year. Tickets and sponsorship have been tracking similarly.” While there will constantly be speculation about potential new ownership or the need to get local interested parties involved, the Wetenhall family never has expressed a desire to sell. And realistically, it wouldn’t make economic sense to unload the franchise at this juncture, when the return would be minimal. “My belief is they’ll fight to keep the franchise, but there needs to be signs,” Boivin said. “Part of that — a big part — is on me … on righting the ship. I don’t know that we necessarily get four years to do this without seeing some real progression.” The price of season tickets will remain frozen. Indeed, those deciding to renew their subscriptions will take advantage of rebates between 45 and 25 per cent, depending on how early they commit. The price of almost 1,000 seats in Molson Stadium will be reduced, and a $20 ticket for students will now be offered. Rather than concentrating on the approximately 10,000 who have full season-ticket packages, Boivin said equal emphasis must be placed on those who have more specific interests and want to see a more limited number of games. Boivin said the organization must continue to sell the overall experience as opposed to the actual three-hour game. “It’s less about selling a ticket. It’s more about selling an overall experience,” he said. “We’re trying to get them in, not (exclusively) for the football but to live a social experience with their friends. “We’re going to be redefining this team’s identity so it can progress and develop properly.” http://montrealgazette.com/sports/fo...president-says |
^ I don't feel too badly for the Als, they had a good thing going when the team was doing well. They milked it hard with some big crowds for playoff games and what were probably at the time the highest ticket price points in the league. I'm sure their ownership did quite well for itself.
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"We’re in a tough spot. We have been for some time now. Our metrics are not increasing." "The business has not been tracking forward. It’s been regressing slowly, year after year. Tickets and sponsorship have been tracking similarly." Your original post indicated that sponsorships had been restored (you didn't provide values or actual specifics) and I quoted a Montreal Gazette article indicating that sponsorships were declining. Boivin's point-of-view is probably worth more and I was supplementing your post with his official information. Since we don't have any official numbers it's mostly moot anyway, but Boivin's interview wasn't exactly painting a pretty picture. :shrug: The Edmonton Eskimos make roughly $5M/year in sponsorship funding (making up roughly 20% of their total revenue). The Blue Bombers post their revenues but do not indicate sponsorship individually from other corporate revenues so we're left to guesstimate. I'd assume it's around $4M given market size (although you're welcome to refute this). If Montreal is attracting half the crowds in a larger market it's possible their sponsorship figures are somewhere similar. (edit - Saskatchewan brings in roughly $6M/year in sponsorship revenue as of 2017) In saying this, both Edmonton's and Winnipeg's sponsorship revenues (in the case of Winnipeg, presumably) have been increasing year-over-year. Edmonton receives about ~$300K more each year in sponsorships. We have no way of completely comprehending the situations in Winnipeg or Montreal so we're left to guess as to why Edmonton and Winnipeg are increasing whilst Montreal is decreasing. |
I said "I understand most of the relationships were restored" I never said anything specific about values or later loss.
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There is little doubt MOntreal is losing millions a year at this point - reduced sponsorship from their glory days, decline in crowds and an antiquated stadium that while in a cool locale has limited revenue generating opportunities with the lack of club seats, suites, loges; no naming rights revenue, no ancillary revenues from parking or other events at the stadium.
The team had 17-18,000 season ticket holders at one point with a few thousand on the waiting list. Now it is down to 10,000. Given how awful last season was, I'm sure their attendance will drop by at least a few thousand this year...unless they start giving away a lot of tickets. |
I am guesstimating that the Argos Als and Lions generate around 10-16 million if the Bombers and Eskies generate between 24 and 32 million per year as they get between 27000 and 32000 fans per game to that of 14000-19000 per game. The ticats and redblacks are probably around the 18-22 million mark as their attendance is around the 22 to 24k mark per game.
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Might be time for a brand refresh for the Als? The name is solid but they could do with a new logo and uniforms. :shrug:
Of course, their football ops being hopeless doesn't help. |
Why I love this league!
When good marketing and promotion are genuine. Riders heading to Humboldt on June 3 cfl.ca May 17, 2018 REGINA — The Saskatchewan Roughriders announced Thursday they’ll practice in Humboldt, Sask. on June 3 to honour the Humboldt Broncos and support the community. The team will hold a walk-through practice at Glenn Hall Park football field from noon until 1 p.m., while the Rider organization will also host a barbecue lunch adjacent to the field for the community to enjoy over the course of the lunch hour event. “While we continue to mourn for all those effected by the devastating event of April 6, we want to demonstrate our ongoing support for the Broncos organization and the community of Humboldt,” stated Craig Reynolds, Saskatchewan Roughriders president and CEO. “We have been working in partnership with the Broncos’ organization since the tragedy, hoping to play a small role in assisting the team, victims, the community and entire province through this painful time by channeling the healing power of sport, and by lending the strength of Rider Nation.” “The Broncos are so grateful for the Saskatchewan Roughriders, who have proven to be an invaluable support and resource in recent weeks,” said Kevin Garinger, president of the Humboldt Broncos. “We look forward to June 3rd, where we aim to bring the spirit of Rider Nation as well as an opportunity to enjoy the optimism for the exciting CFL season ahead, to all those in the community of Humboldt.” Following walk-through players and coaches will make themselves available to spend time with fans for pictures and autographs. On the day of the walk-through in Humboldt, the Saskatchewan Roughriders and Humboldt Broncos will also be releasing details regarding the Riders’ ‘Humboldt Strong’ home game on June 30, 2018, which has been dedicated to the families and victims of the April 6 tragedy. |
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I suppose the US team is ranked #1 but who's #2?
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