SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Arts, Culture, Dining, Recreation & Entertainment (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=229)
-   -   Halifax Stadium Discussion (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174940)

fenwick16 Aug 12, 2010 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrskylar (Post 4944559)
Because it's Hamilton and they don't support their sports teams, that's why the AHL Bulldogs are moving and why the Ticats are playing their last year in Hamilton and why the NHL never wants to see a team there!

The main reason that the NHL doesn't want a team to locate there is because it is less than an hour from Toronto and Buffalo (in opposite directions) and would draw fans from both teams (I am sure that the Toronto Maple Leafs would survive but it would hurt Buffalo more).

Based on what I have read ( http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1264739/ ), the downtown portion of Hamilton need to be renewed with new investment since the steel plants have significantly downsized. It seems like a good idea. In my opinion the owner of the Tiger-Cats is being unreasonable. Since the owner is a resident of the city, he should want to do all that he can to improve the fortunes of the city. They are already located in an industrial east end location (Ivor Wynne) so it seems to me that a west downtown location would be a step up. Personally, I think that the owner is out of touch with reality, the downtown is relatively close to highways but it sounds like he wants to be directly next to a highway. I would think that there would be better and easier connections to the downtown location and it is much closer to McMaster University. (just my personal opinion, I lived there for several years but that was 20 years ago).

The Rogers Centre has worked well in downtown Toronto so why wouldn't a stadium work in downtown Hamilton? (Does someone have an address for the new stadium - I haven't been able to find an address for the West Harbour location in any of the articles that I have read)

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 4:41 PM

account deleted

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 4:44 PM

account deleted

halifaxboyns Aug 12, 2010 4:47 PM

Nice - I think he got it right on.

fenwick16 Aug 12, 2010 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax (Post 4944927)
Here's a satirical (but IMO pretty accurate) take on the Mayor's position re: Hamilton Stadium

http://www.riderfans.com/forum/showp...&postcount=321

I can't say this is very accurate. The city council voted 12-3 in favour of the West Harbour location. These are people who know the city very well and thus have a good reason for wanting it in a downtown location. Copps Colesium is in downtown Hamilton and if it had an NHL team I am sure that it would sell out. The owner of the Tiger-Cats (Bob Young - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_You...businessman%29 ) made a fortune in the software industry, but this doesn't mean that he knows the best location for a stadium. Putting a stadium in the East Mountain is the equivalent of choosing a Dartmouth Crossings locations over the Halifax peninsula. Putting a stadium in the suburbs with good highway connections so that everyone needs to get there by car and park in a large parking lot that will normally be empty is the old way of thinking that has been tried throughout North America and has gone out of favour. Having lived for a few years close to downtown Hamilton, I personally feel that it will be the best location just as Copps Colesium is in the best location (downtown).

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 5:32 PM

account deleted

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 5:39 PM

account deleted

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 5:52 PM

account deleted

fenwick16 Aug 12, 2010 7:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax (Post 4944980)
I think that the best location for a CFL stadium is wherever the owner can breakeven.

If the choices are:

A) A downtown location where the team loses money OR

B) A suburban location where the team breaks even.

Then I choose option B.

There is no option C) A downtown location where the team breaks even.

Everyone would prefer option C but the only person in the conversation with his own money at risk says that it doesn't exist. As far as running a business or CFL team goes, Bob Young may not be perfect, but he knows infinitely more than the mayor and city council.

This is all speculation - does anyone know what his reasoning is? He is saying that the chosen location is the worst of 10 locations - this just sounds like a case of exaggeration. Along with stating that the downtown location will lose money. Copps Colesium hasn't been a huge failure because of location - I wouldn't consider it a failure, I was to a sold out concert there and also a basketball game back when the Halifax Windjammers were playing Hamilon. It is in a great location close to public transportation. It is considered to be a failure by some because the city of Hamilton was unable to get an NHL franchise. This has nothing to do with where it is located within Hamilton, it is because Toronto and Buffalo don't want the competition from another team within their territory. I think you are being too trusting by believing all the rhetoric that is being thrown around.

I think Bob Young is essentially slapping the city of Hamilton across the face and saying the downtown doesn't meet his high standards. It sounds like his chosen location is closer to Stoney Creek than Hamilton (I guess through amalgamation they are now the same city).

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 8:46 PM

account deleted

fenwick16 Aug 12, 2010 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brettinhalifax (Post 4945227)
It isn't speculation. It is what Bob Young says the situation is. He is the only person in this conversation (you, me, the mayor, city council, the Pan-Am committee) that will actually lose money depending on the outcome of the debate.

He's playing with his own money, everyone else is playing with someone else's money. IMO that makes him the most trustworthy. He's got skin in the game.



Hey I see both sides. Can you?

The Mayor and Council are in the business of city building and have a Field of Dreams attitude towards the Tiger-Cats "If you build it, they will come"

Bob Young is in the business of CFL football and thinks that the stadium won't be a success unless his team survives.

This discussion is pointless. Of course you aren't looking at two sides. You are basing your argument by using an owner's speculation as fact. Bob Young is not in the business of CFL football, he is someone with deep pockets who bought the team (this hardly makes him an expert). The argument that since he succeeded in business that he must know what he is doing is also a bunch of baloney. The city is investing $50 million in the stadium, so they have more to lose than Bob Young.

The only thing that I think is a mistake is that the city is trying to build an iconic stadium that seats 15,000 which is expandable for the Tiger-Cats, whereas I think they could go with a more practical design that seats 30,000 (eliminate all the fancy curves and glass) for the same amount of money. I would agree with this argument, if that is your point but as far as location goes you used a couple of exceptions like the Dallas Cowboys Stadium and the Giants Stadium and ignored all the others (the majority) that have been built in downtown locations. In a suburban location people will drive to the stadium, park, watch the game and then get back in their cars and go home. This doesn't provide much benefit to a city. In the case of Hamilton, I hope that they boot Bob Young out of the city and find a more deserving owner. If they lose the Tiger-Cats then another owner can get an expansion team.

PS: Neither of us know enough to be commenting on this. My only point is that a downtown Hamilton location would seem to be a very good location. Having lived in Hamilton for a few years, I can't see anything wrong with such a location. Hamilton has a lot of one way multi-lane streets (it provides great traffic flow through the city). I assume this is why people can only get into the stadium from one direction. However, this is the case with most locations in the downtown Hamilton core (because of all the one way streets) - people just go around the block so that they are going in the right direction. I wonder about the reporters that wrote these stories because they are filled with exaggerations and twisted facts that I would expect of the Save the View group in Halifax.

brettinhalifax Aug 12, 2010 11:15 PM

account deleted

Urban_Genius Aug 12, 2010 11:20 PM

^And virtually all MLS stadiums are built in the suburbs.
Arenas and baseball stadiums go in urban areas. Soccer/Football stadiums generally don't. You can't use something sparsely used as a magnet to downtown. Common sense.

worldlyhaligonian Aug 12, 2010 11:29 PM

Most popular team in the CFL is the SK Roughriders... their stadium is downtown in a province where everybody drives everywhere.

I think it is rediculous to discuss Moncton getting a team... honestly this is a joke to me. I wouldn't (and I hope other Nova Scotians wouldn't) support any sports franchise located there. I doubt a Moncton team would last financially.

Driving 5 hours to see a team that doesn't even rep my province is laughable... I'd rather fly from Halifax to Montreal to watch the Als in a real city.

MonctonRad Aug 12, 2010 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian (Post 4945449)
I think it is rediculous to discuss Moncton getting a team... honestly this is a joke to me. I wouldn't (and I hope other Nova Scotians wouldn't) support any sports franchise located there. I doubt a Moncton team would last financially.

Driving 5 hours to see a team that doesn't even rep my province is laughable... I'd rather fly from Halifax to Montreal to watch the Als in a real city.

Them's fightin' words!! :hell:

And for the record, if Halifax got a team I would drive down a couple times a year to catch a game.

Moncton's not so bad a city.........give us a break! :tup:

fenwick16 Aug 13, 2010 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Genius (Post 4945434)
^And virtually all MLS stadiums are built in the suburbs.
Arenas and baseball stadiums go in urban areas. Soccer/Football stadiums generally don't. You can't use something sparsely used as a magnet to downtown. Common sense.

I did a quick search, and about 2/3 of the NFL stadiums are close the downtown area (within 3- 4 miles or closer). Here is the list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eague_stadiums . However, this is all subjective since a few places like Oakland (across the bay from San Francisco) and Green Bay don't have dense downtown areas.

I see no reason why a stadium should be in the suburbs with a large parking lot when there is room in the downtown area and it can utilize public transit and parking. If a stadium is located in the suburbs then there is a good reason for it to be sparsely used as you stated. This is the reason to put it near the downtown area where it will get maximum use.

I see no common sense in locating a stadium on the east mountain. Having lived in Hamilton, getting from the lower area of Hamilton (west Hamilton, downtown and east Hamilton) is a long trek by bus. Since there is room in the downtown area (and it is not a frightening place like it is made out to be in a few articles) why not put it downtown? When I lived in Hamilton 20 years ago the west end and downtown were good parts of town. Hamiltonians should be peeved at Bob Young not the city of Hamilton. I think getting peeved at the city is just a knee jerk reaction. The city of Hamilton is investing a large amount of money ($50 million dollars) so they should choose the location. If they can't get a benefit from the stadium then why should they even bother to help finance it?

fenwick16 Aug 13, 2010 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 4945481)
Them's fightin' words!! :hell:

And for the record, if Halifax got a team I would drive down a couple times a year to catch a game.

Moncton's not so bad a city.........give us a break! :tup:

I would be really peeved at HRM council if Moncton gets a team before Halifax. However, I wouldn't feel any resentment towards Moncton. To me Moncton is like Green Bay in the NFL.

worldlyhaligonian Aug 13, 2010 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonctonRad (Post 4945481)
Them's fightin' words!! :hell:

And for the record, if Halifax got a team I would drive down a couple times a year to catch a game.

Moncton's not so bad a city.........give us a break! :tup:

Hey, hahaha. :cheers: Its not that is a good or bad city, its just not a big enough city yet for a CFL team. I think Halifax is just big enough.

Regina (more similar to a Green Bay franchise in Canada, although Edmonton is clearly Canada's Green Bay) can support a team because Saskatoon is so close and its all within the province.

Its like when people talk about Halifax getting an NHL team... there are other cities in line. We aren't even on the radar in my opinion.

Everybody should wait their turn. Moncton is always trying to "out do" Halifax, when clearly it isn't in a position to do so.

Keith P. Aug 13, 2010 1:16 AM

Meanwhile, HRM just issued a tender for a rink for the Common to be used in the Canada Games -- another $1.0 to $1.5 million. Add to that the same amount earlier this week for the Khyber and you have a good start on funding for a stadium, and that is just one week's worth of questionable spending. Throw in some proper internal economy measures and you could have the thing paid for within the year.

MonctonRad Aug 13, 2010 1:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by worldlyhaligonian (Post 4945528)
Everybody should wait their turn. Moncton is always trying to "out do" Halifax, when clearly it isn't in a position to do so.

Nothing wrong about being ambitious! :)

I agree that Halifax should be able to support a team. You just need to have a stadium, a proactive civic administration and an ownership group.

Moncton (1) has a stadium (admittedly inadequate), (2) has a proactive civic administration but (3) does not have an ownership group (yet). We do have about a half dozen individuals in the city worth $100M or more so that might not be an insurmountable obstacle.

Both cities should try for teams. Our catchment area is dissimilar enough to yours that there is not much overlap. The rivalry between two Maritime teams could be quite intense.

I have always said that if Moncton gets a team first, a team in Halfax would follow in short order. The reverse however would not necessarily be true. A team in Halifax might block an NB franchise forever.


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.