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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Dominion301 Feb 20, 2020 6:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8836580)
YYZ finally published 2019 full year results. Here is the full list.

Canada's 8 busiest airports in 2019

YYZ 50,499,431 +2.0%
YVR 26,395,820 +1.8%
YUL 20,305,106 +4.5%
YYC 17,957,780 +3.5%
YEG 8,151,532 -1.2%
YOW 5,106,487 -0.1%
YWG 4,484,249 -0.0%
YHZ 4,188,443 -3.0%

For the smaller airports that have published 2019 results, see the following link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orts_in_Canada

That's a pretty clear indication that to preserve as much network connectivity as possible during the MAX grounding, carriers (not surprisingly) consolidated their capacity at their hubs. The fact that YOW and YWG essentially broke even in 2019 is quite the feat. Even with the continued MAX grounding into next fall, YOW looks poised to at least hit 5.2 million in 2020, but might flirt with 5.3 if Flair does smashingly well and FRA/LHR can pull in high 80s summer peak loads with the introduction of LH to FRA and the AC 330/788 to LHR. Transborder will grow, but won't get back to 2019 levels with UA ending EWR and AC cutting the summer MCO weekend service (probably MAX-related).

YHZ should get back to their 2019 levels with more Flair, the new MAN flight and more AC capacity to YOW.

YWG and YEG should grow 1-2% by Y-E 2020 thanks to Swoop....and in the case of YEG, Condor!

jmt18325 Feb 23, 2020 2:26 AM

I wonder if there's any truth to this?

https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=9150

casper Feb 23, 2020 9:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8839460)
I wonder if there's any truth to this?

https://www.wingsoverquebec.com/?p=9150

I would expect there is a lot of truth to that......

Air Canada is waiting for final approval on its purchase of AirTransat. AirTransat already has the A321neo and A321LX on order. We don't know how integrated Air Canada and Air Transat will be, that said if they keep them as separate brands they are still likely to merge maintenance and all the back office stuff.

What is interesting is a combined Air Canada, Air Canada Rouge and Air Transat would likely have more Airbus aircraft than Boeing even before this order.

thenoflyzone Feb 23, 2020 1:56 PM

It was inevitable really. Air Canada cannot pass up on the capabilities of the A321LR/XLR. Opens up whole new possibilities - so to speak - for AC, such as YOW-CDG, YQB-CDG, YWG-LHR, YEG-LHR.

Plus with the Max fiasco, its all the more clear that they should have always gone with Airbus. Secondary Canadian airports have something to smile about once this becomes official.

SaskOttaLoo Feb 23, 2020 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8836532)
If you use to live in Saskatoon, i'm surprised you think business travel is main reason for as many as a few flights a day to each Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton & a dozen flights a day to Calgary.

If Canada is similar to the US, and it probably is for the most part, 10% to 15% of travel is business and the rest is leisure.

Most Saskatchewan people that are flying to hubs in Canada and the States are flying to make connections to a wider assortment of final destinations other than the most popular ones like Vegas, AZ, Orlando and the half dozen Mexico and the half dozen Caribbean final destinations.

I'm sure as more sun destinations acquire greater numbers of people from the province, more non-stop flights to cater to more sun specific destinations will grow. Same for Canadian destinations in the Summer, if more Canadian cities that aren't hubs already become popular enough as destinations themselves to have non-stop flights, as the Mexico and Caribbean destination already are in Winter for Saskatchewan, then those Canadian final destinations will get direct flights from/to Saskatchewan. :tup:

This is interesting. Not having found any figures on the % of leisure travellers in Canada, here's my theory. Basically, there will be a lower % of leisure travel in Canada than the US. My rationale, based on having lived in many parts of Canada and now in Denver, is that flights are a lot cheaper in the US than Canada and you're more likely to get last minute deals down here. And leisure is generally more price sensitive than business travel. Lots of people in Colorado will fly somewhere like San Fran for a weekend or a long weekend, whereas I haven't seen that be as common to do in Canada. The times I've thought of doing so, the high cost of the flights has made me reconsider. Example: I was going to hop from Saskatoon over to Winnipeg for 1-2 nights to catch up with a friend, and the flight cost was going to be nearly $500. Which is why I'm so pumped on the idea of ULCCs lowering the cost of domestic travel and making Canadians more likely to visit more of our own country!

msmariner Feb 23, 2020 7:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8839713)
It was inevitable really. Air Canada cannot pass up on the capabilities of the A321LR/XLR. Opens up whole new possibilities - so to speak - for AC, such as YOW-CDG, YQB-CDG, YWG-LHR, YEG-LHR.

Plus with the Max fiasco, its all the more clear that they should have always gone with Airbus. Secondary Canadian airports have something to smile about once this becomes official.

Who the hell wants to be on a single aisle plane from YEG/YWG to London??

jmt18325 Feb 23, 2020 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 8839943)
Who the hell wants to be on a single aisle plane from YEG/YWG to London??

Having now flown both wide and narrow body across the Atlantic, I don't understand the complaint.

Alexcaban Feb 23, 2020 9:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 8839943)
Who the hell wants to be on a single aisle plane from YEG/YWG to London??

The average person who travels for pleasure gives zero f’s weather their flight is operated by a 321, 330 or 777. At the end of the day if that flight is 1$ cheaper then that’s the flight they chose.

qprcanada Feb 23, 2020 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexcaban (Post 8840004)
The average person who travels for pleasure gives zero f’s weather their flight is operated by a 321, 330 or 777. At the end of the day if that flight is 1$ cheaper then that’s the flight they chose.

We flew the A321Neo last summer with Air Transat YUL - OPO on both the outgoing and return legs and the flights were quite pleasant even with just one aisle considering the cost of the fares.

SaskScraper Feb 23, 2020 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskOttaLoo (Post 8839855)
This is interesting. Not having found any figures on the % of leisure travellers in Canada, here's my theory. Basically, there will be a lower % of leisure travel in Canada than the US. My rationale, based on having lived in many parts of Canada and now in Denver, is that flights are a lot cheaper in the US than Canada and you're more likely to get last minute deals down here. And leisure is generally more price sensitive than business travel. Lots of people in Colorado will fly somewhere like San Fran for a weekend or a long weekend, whereas I haven't seen that be as common to do in Canada. The times I've thought of doing so, the high cost of the flights has made me reconsider. Example: I was going to hop from Saskatoon over to Winnipeg for 1-2 nights to catch up with a friend, and the flight cost was going to be nearly $500. Which is why I'm so pumped on the idea of ULCCs lowering the cost of domestic travel and making Canadians more likely to visit more of our own country!

I agree, leisure travel in the USA is a lot more common than leisure travel within Canada alone, that's why there is such an over abundance of Saskatchewan leisure travellers going south instead of ever traveling within Canada.

A quick expedia search shows a 4day weekend from Saskatoon to Vegas next week for example, from Friday to Tuesday starting at about ~C$600 per person, round-trip flights and 3.5★ hotel included.


https://i.imgur.com/1r3hHbV.png
https://www.expedia.ca


Not too many Saskatchewan leisure travellers flying across a single provincial border for a weekend when you can go to Vegas for twice as long and cheaper than a flight & hotel in Winnipeg for example,
Most leisure travellers crossing only one single provincial border on The Prairies simply drive the few hours that it takes to get to there, whether it's Calgary. Saskatoon, or Winnipeg is your destination

whywhyzee Feb 23, 2020 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8839713)
It was inevitable really. Air Canada cannot pass up on the capabilities of the A321LR/XLR. Opens up whole new possibilities - so to speak - for AC, such as YOW-CDG, YQB-CDG, YWG-LHR, YEG-LHR.

Plus with the Max fiasco, its all the more clear that they should have always gone with Airbus. Secondary Canadian airports have something to smile about once this becomes official.

Honestly it would probably end up being used for more secondary destinations out of the hubs. AC has continually moved towards more centralization, why waste a valuable LHR slot for example on YWG.

yyzer Feb 24, 2020 1:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8836580)
YYZ finally published 2019 full year results. Here is the full list.

Canada's 8 busiest airports in 2019

YYZ 50,499,431 +2.0%
YVR 26,395,820 +1.8%
YUL 20,305,106 +4.5%
YYC 17,957,780 +3.5%
YEG 8,151,532 -1.2%
YOW 5,106,487 -0.1%
YWG 4,484,249 -0.0%
YHZ 4,188,443 -3.0%

For the smaller airports that have published 2019 results, see the following link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...orts_in_Canada

Hey, despite slowing growth, YYZ broke the 50 million passenger mark! That's great news!! Congrats to all the folks who work at YYZ! :cheers:

Denscity Feb 24, 2020 1:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyzer (Post 8840139)
Hey, despite slowing growth, YYZ broke the 50 million passenger mark! That's great news!! Congrats to all the folks who work at YYZ! :cheers:

Like.
Is this the first time YYZ has ever hit 50 million?

yyzer Feb 24, 2020 1:51 AM

Yes it is...

casper Feb 24, 2020 2:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8840073)
Honestly it would probably end up being used for more secondary destinations out of the hubs. AC has continually moved towards more centralization, why waste a valuable LHR slot for example on YWG.

In summers past AC has had three slot pairs that from a schedule perspective only work for Western Canada. One slot is used for Calgary and one for Vancouver. The third one has bounced around. It was used on Edmonton for a time. Then split between Calgary and Vancouver. Then used for a double daily from Vancouver. When they only allocate one slot to Vancouver, that flight goes out with high density 777. When it double daily it is two smaller wide body aircraft. Depending on what aircraft are available it may make sense to have Vancouver dialy with the high density 777 and split the extra slot with Winnipeg or Edmonton.

Denscity Feb 24, 2020 2:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyzer (Post 8840179)
Yes it is...

Sick.
It's funny how YYZ of all things has no hype compared to other items on SSP.

jmt18325 Feb 24, 2020 3:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 8840228)
Sick.
It's funny how YYZ of all things has no hype compared to other items on SSP.

I believe, that makes it a mega hub now.

Dominion301 Feb 24, 2020 4:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whywhyzee (Post 8840073)
Honestly it would probably end up being used for more secondary destinations out of the hubs. AC has continually moved towards more centralization, why waste a valuable LHR slot for example on YWG.

“More” out of hubs, definitely. “Exclusively”, unlikely. Factoring leakage to YUL, YOW-CDG is almost certainly the largest non-hub O&D transatlantic city pair in Canada. YYC and YVR with francophone populations a fraction of the size of YOW have CDG service. The 321LR or XLR is the perfectly sized aircraft to launch YOW-CDG on at least a summer seasonal basis at least 5x, weekly. Even though CDG is not a Star hub, CDG still has a large number of connection possibilities to Star carriers at CDG, not even factoring in non-Star interlines or some connections on the YOW end.

I’d wager that by 2025, someone will have launched YOW-CDG...ideally that would be AF, but could be TS (with an AC codeshare) under AC’s control...won’t happen under an independent TS.

As for YQB-CDG, assuming that the TS takeover is approved, I could see that route upping to daily in summer.

isaidso Feb 24, 2020 9:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8840294)
I believe, that makes it a mega hub now.

It's a feather in their cap. Hopefully, Pearson can evolve into one of the big boys on par with LAX, Charles du Gaulle, Beijing Capital, etc.

thenoflyzone Feb 24, 2020 1:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8840294)
I believe, that makes it a mega hub now.

YYZ is already a megahub, as far as international passengers/destinations and the connectivity that it brings.

According to OAG, it was the 6th largest international megahub in the world in 2019.

https://www.oag.com/oag-megahubs-2019

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso (Post 8840474)
It's a feather in their cap. Hopefully, Pearson can evolve into one of the big boys on par with LAX, Charles du Gaulle, Beijing Capital, etc.

YYZ is a "bigger" boy than all of the airports you mention.

It's not all about total passenger count.

See the OAG link above. As far as international connectivity is concerned (which is a far more important metric than overall pax), YYZ is ahead of all the airports you mentioned.

6th - YYZ
7th - CDG
13th - LAX
36th -PEK

China and the US have huge domestic demand. Something Canada doesn't have. YYZ will never be able to have the same domestic numbers as LAX or PEK.


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