Exactly. All of this.

I'd like to see them build it as well but they did sell their development site on 8th near lombard a couple years ago, they bail on development sites sometimes.

I listened to Toll's earnings call today. It doesn't sound like they're going to start this project. I will post the relevant components from the earnings call once the transcript comes out, but I believe the phrasing was "We have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment", and they later mentioned Philadelphia and Seattle as markets where they have land they are sitting on.

Wow. I'm shocked. Totally shocked. :rolleyes:

Thanks for the update though.

Ugh. I'm all for daily penalties for fallow ground, cleared in anticipation of construction that is severely delayed or never starts.

I second that.

Here's that transcript of the Toll Bros Q2 earnings call, including Q7A: https://seekingalpha.com/article/435...pt?part=single

The segment of the Q&A where Philadelphia is mentioned:

Operator

Next question comes from Jade Rahmani of KBW. Please go ahead.

Ryan Tomasello

This is Ryan Tomasello for Jade. Jut regarding apartments and City Living. You gave some color in your prepared remarks on the former. But can you speak a bit more about how you’re thinking about the outlook for those businesses post the dust settling? Can you remind us how much equity you currently have allocated in each of those segments? And you mentioned you’ll be closing a few apartment JVs in the second half of the year. I was wondering how much capital that relates to and what the intention is to do with those proceeds, if you expect to reinvest those back into the apartment business.

Marty Connor

Sure. I think with respect to the apartment business, we have around $700 million invested in that business, and we hope to recoup $400 million through the balance of the next 12 months or so through JV formations. With respect to City Living, we’re actually at a good time in terms of where we have investments. We have around $170 million net invested in existing inventory, active communities. We have another $30 million in our couple off balance sheet joint ventures, and then we have some land inventory for projects that we have chosen not to start in this environment.

Ryan Tomasello

And just in terms of outlook, particularly in City Living, post this environment becoming a bit more certain if you expect City Living demand to be -- continue to be a driver for the business?

Douglas Yearley

Yes. I think, short term, we’re going to be very cautious. Right now, we only have five buildings in City Living, three are completed and the other two are nearing completion. But, we do have some land for future buildings that where we have not started any construction. And right now we are just sitting on the land. It’s not just in New York. We have some land in Seattle and Philadelphia as two examples. So, as Marty said, I think we’re at a good time in terms of our City Living business, which had been shrinking significantly. And in those five buildings that I mentioned, which are in -- two are in New Jersey, Hoboken, Jersey City and the other three are in Manhattan. They’re all positioned sort of mid-market. We talked about kind of $2,000 a foot, $1,800 a foot in New Jersey. They’re down at a $1,000 a foot. And so, they had been performing fairly well for us through what we all know, has been a difficult a few years in New York.

And short term, I think we’re very realistic that it will take some time to see where New York City falls out on this. And then, longer term, I’m comforted by what I just described, which was limited inventory in these five buildings that are all kind of mid market. But longer term, we will be very cautious with our expansion, of City Living in and around New York City until we have more clarity on where the long-term market stands. Today, only about 3% of our business is in Toll Brothers City Living.

Now keep in mind, Toll has/had 2 big projects in the works in Center City. Besides the Jewelers Row condo tower, they also have the proposed apartment development at Broad & Noble by the Rail Park. But those projects are under two different Toll Divisions — Sansom St is Toll City Living and Noble St is Toll Apartment Living. From the context of the text I bolded in the above transcript excerpt I tend to think that it is the Sansom St (City Living) project that they are pausing.

In the context of the overall earnings call, it kind of sounded like they were planning on winding down their urban format/multi-family business.

Another void we’re stuck with for years. Thanks, Toll. I’d like to dig a giant hole in the front yard of their CEO‘s McMansion and walk away from it for years.

I think you're onto something there. Let's organize a mass shoveling.

In all seriousness, if this doesn't turn out to be the turning point for giving historic preservation in Philly much more power and authority, I don't know what will.

This might be splitting hairs, but the HC in Phila has consistently said that it doesn't have enough resources to oversee the present rules and regs. They have gotten more staff in the last couple years but who knows how long that will last.

In addition to being well funded I'd like at least one if not two new categories of preservation to be codified, so that not every situation has to be treated the same. The present status is one size fits all. Jewelers Row would have been a hard case to make using the present definitions, as it was such a mix of ages and styles and preservation levels. But far and away the general thinking has been that what Toll was planning to do was not good for the streetscape. That's an example where very strict following of the existing rules got in the way keeping the feel of that block.

I live in UC in a part where large Victorian twins are the norm. One house that long ago had been turned into 3 apartments, got trashed a year ago, much smaller windows that are casement style were installed top to bottom, the front porch---often the key to these twins----was modernized, and the exterior was stuccoed. No one except the owner likes the what happened, but likewise most people unfortunately don't care enough to restore very well. I've heard for years people saying that they just wanted to make things alittle simpler and no one would notice the small changes, but over 40 years they add up. Again it would be nice if there were other standards that were available but not be as costly as true preservation and restoration, which foolishly I still believe in.

Jewelers Row condo-tower developer Toll Bros. pauses work amid coronavirus uncertainty

“As is true for most development in this region, Toll Bros.’ Sansom Street project has been impacted by COVID-19," Toll City Living spokesperson Timothy Spreitzer said in a statement. "We are still proceeding through the permitting process, and we look forward to bringing a beautiful project to Jewelers Row.”

How many times have we seen statements like this from developers only to have a big hole in the ground for years to come? This should really piss people off, part of our history was torn down only to have Toll start flaking out when the going gets tough.

Walked by this site yesterday.

Absolutely criminal that this was allowed to happen.

Yea, even if you entirely set asside the history and that this is an iconic Philly block, this is just so inexcusable. I said it from the beginning because it was just so plain as day, they rushed to demolish the buildings because they were afraid a future court ruling could prevent them from demoing. They were not ready to build, but they rushed to demo to improve the value of their land as an investment. This should not be allowed.

If you're going to take down usable buildings, there needs to be the expectation that new construction will begin to replace them in a reasonable amount of time and if the company fails to deliver, they should be fined severely for every day constriction does not start.

^Something on which we can (and do) all agree.

Seems fair to me ^

Land value tax!

^Fallow land tax!

Is any of this info new? I can walk over to the site later to see if there's been any progress but I was under the impression this one was dead for a while.

https://phillyyimby.com/2020/09/exca...nter-city.html

That site is relatively new (many articles by a member of this forum) and so they've been going through basically all the old news gathered on this forum and making news articles from them, often making them seem more current or imminent than they really are.

I can confirm that there is nothing going on at this site. The original buildings have been demolished and there has been a partial excavation, but nothing has happened in the past few months.

^ Case in point that demolition must be tied to construction. No demo without a construction commitment and financing in place. Jeweler's Row is wrecked and all I got was this lousy hole.

Bingo! This is also a busy area in the city and now they destroyed the buildings for a hole smh.

Wait until you have the money to demo and build its that simple people.

^Yes. Exactly.

And Toll just acquired another high rise project in Philly that they apparently plan to start soon, meanwhile we've heard nothing about this since it was postponed indefinitely. So it looks like this isn't even a priority for them any longer. We should all get used to looking at this hole.

I mean realistically the people at Philly YIMBY or the Inquirer should be doing the legwork on this one, but the N. Broad building is part of Toll's "Apartment Living" portfolio, while the Sansom Street Project is part of the "City Living" portfolio. My assumption is that the City Living buildings are condos while the apartment living are apartments. Toll likely thinks the market for apartments hasn't been as impacted as luxury condos. Plus 702 Sansom would be competing with the Laurel, Arthaus, etc. In Toll's most recent earnings call they mentioned that they are pausing City Living development until the market gets better.

Or rather — assuming you mean to Broad & Noble St project — they finally consummated the land purchase (from the Mormons) for an apartment project which they had announced last October.

Yes, sorry, confused the details there. Didn't realize they were involved when the project was announced.

Regardless, according to DudeGuy it looks like they'll be moving forward with the Broad and Noble project, but there's no indication anything is happening here anytime soon.

this x 10000

Yet another layer of mystery added to the Jeweler's Row Tower debacle:

Jewelers Row Tower’s Height Increased, Unit Count Decreased to 63

Read more at: http://www.rising.realestate/jeweler...creased-to-63/

Interesting, I imagine the units are now going to include more in-home offices, therefore increasing the unit sizes hence the fewer units. Everyone will continue to work from home!

^ That would be an interesting trend. Pure office space construction seems to have declined around here, with a few notable exceptions. I've wondered whether Philadelphia can sustain the kind of skyline growth for which some of us yearn, mostly based upon residential/mixed use projects. If office space becomes increasingly integrated with residential units, I wonder whether it might lead to as many or more buildings of significant height. I'm sure developers would want to have their cake and eat it too by selling bigger AND more units.

Is anyone able to find these new or amended permits online? I've searched in both atlas and eclipse, but am coming up empty.

We may indeed get taller residential buildings but commercial office buildings are how you get to 700 footers, 800 footers, and taller.

What would you bet on happening first? A 1,000 foot residential building or a 1,000 foot commercial tower? Or even 750 feet? Not easy to decide.

I found the amended Jewelers' Row permits in atlas under 708 Sansom St:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/eclipse-docs...g/00388016.pdf

http://s3.amazonaws.com/eclipse-docs...g/00309328.pdf

Disappointing. A glass box? Meanwhile Manhattan projects get stone, masonry, angles, shapes, etc. Come on Toll Brothers. With the stunt they pulled, they could at least give Philadelphia a decent building, maybe add some ribbing in-between the glass?

Current site. Someone deserves to be punched in the face over this.

https://phillyyimby.com/wp-content/u...3-747x1024.jpg

https://phillyyimby.com/2020/12/702-...nter-city.html

i was hoping the update was going to involve some construction. Should've known better.

Wow. I just read through this thread, what a greasy move....that's really sad to see. The dumbing down of the building renders was nothing short of insulting to this historically significant area.

With upscale residential construction largely unaffected throughout the city, residential real estate generally performing well in Philly despite the pandemic, and even new projects being announced in recent months, something tells me that the pandemic may be a small part of the equation as far as what is going on here. If there was no pandemic, still not sure we'd have seen construction here yet.

When I'm walking through the area, I'm sure to never walk down this block. Just the sight of this mess pisses me off so much.

This situation pisses me off too and I avoid this block as well. Historical preservation can go way too far in certain parts of the city (e.g. society hill), but we should have preserved this jewel of a block of low rises (pun intended). Even if jewelry stores were losing steam it would have evolved into something new as it had evolved into Jeweler's row before.

Toll Brothers had their earnings call yesterday and this site (kind of) came up. Relevant bits below:

So 2021? I still find this delay ridiculous. High-end residential construction is chugging along throughout the city and Toll is a very large company with a huge marketing reach, there is no reason another 100 or so units could not be absorbed into the market. And its the only new tower overlooking Washington Square Park...an attractive trait for buyers.

The aesthetic of the tower is a whole other problem, glass box...This is a company that can afford an A+ design (which some of their Manhattan projects get), yet Philadelphia gets C-...their home base...

A tragedy all around.

These guys should be banned from the city.

Pure scum. And we let them get away with it.

Toll Brothers revises timetable for its controversial Jewelers' Row project
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...w-project.html

What a fucking joke.

I'm confused with the delay... The units will sell, its a fantastic location. And besides the entire mess of a situation, the tower isn't terrible, but in that location the city deserves something better, and might as well be taller.

Ribbing of the glass (similar to Riverwalk and Murano) would take this a long way, and Toll can certainly afford the small additional façade costs.

Because whenever someone looks at a skyscraper they always think “if only it were 100 ft taller”. The neighborhood isn’t a necessarily the skyscraper district - its Jeweler’s Row and it should have been preserved.

The damage is done so the "it should have" argument is irrelevant... And I never advocated for demo in the first place.

And since the damage is done, why not build a tall elegant tower? Philadelphia gets another 300' box (this time glass).

And not a skyscraper district? The St James is a few hundred feet away, and The Public Ledger Building on the corner is ~170ft tall, and a lot more hulking than a skinny tower.