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-   -   The Great Canadian Sports Attendance, Marketing and TV Ratings Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228928)

JHikka Oct 29, 2021 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hackslack (Post 9436962)
How has MLS support been this year for Canada’s teams? Are they maxing out the reduced capacity, if there are any of those measures still in place? (hard to keep track of)

It's tough to really say anything about attendance for anyone in 2021 because of the global pandemic. TFC have had a dismal year and the crowds show, CFM and VWFC have had average crowds considering. Not MLS but HFX have had a really good year despite everything, and the others in CPL are accordingly varying depending on capacities and interest. There won't be anything to glean from attendances at events until probably 2022 or 2023.

esquire Oct 29, 2021 4:17 PM

Valour FC didn't do very well at the gate... I think it's partially pandemic related (people apprehensive about being in crowds, lack of season ticket marketing due to uncertainty) and also due to their piss-poor on-field performance. The season started well but then Andrew Jean-Baptiste got injured and it pretty well went down the toilet.

VFC could have reduced their ticket prices (or at least offer some deals) to get some people in the place. I might have gone to some of those late season games on a BOGO deal or for $10 tickets or some such. That last game I don't think there were even a thousand people there by the looks of the pictures.

q12 Oct 29, 2021 6:25 PM

All NLL games will be broadcast by both TSN and ESPN.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jn24L3FV/nll.png

esquire Oct 29, 2021 6:43 PM

Good for NLL, it could use the visibility. I wonder a) how many games will be on the broadcast networks, and b) how much it's worth?

thurmas Oct 30, 2021 12:06 AM

Winnipeg Jets won 4 straight now. Winnipeg Blue Bombers 10-1 putting up possibly the most dominant defense in CFL history and the Winnipeg ICE currently 11-0 first place in the WHL and I don’t think they even have a local radio deal in Winnipeg right now since bell shutdown TSN 1290 let alone any television coverage.

esquire Oct 30, 2021 2:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9438218)
Winnipeg Jets won 4 straight now. Winnipeg Blue Bombers 10-1 putting up possibly the most dominant defense in CFL history and the Winnipeg ICE currently 11-0 first place in the WHL and I don’t think they even have a local radio deal in Winnipeg right now since bell shutdown TSN 1290 let alone any television coverage.

The ICE are still on 1290... it's like a lingering vestige of TSN 1290 with Brian Munz and Kevin Olszewski doing the games.

The amusing thing is that 1290 is now a comedy station called "FUNNY 1290", but whenever hockey is on they refer to it by the more dignified "CFRW 1290" :haha: It would be nice to see the ICE get some TV coverage but the problem is that Wayne Fleming Arena probably sucks for television... even watching game highlights you can barely see what the hell is going on.

As a longtime Winnipeg sports fan I don't think we have had such good and bountiful times in at least 30 years. Now we just need the hockey teams to join the Bombers in filling up the trophy case!

blueandgoldguy Nov 8, 2021 10:14 PM

I've been hearing that TFC's losses this year will approach or even exceed $30 million US! I guess that's not surprising as their season ticket base has dropped to 15,000 or so and many games had 7,000 fans in the stands. A few years ago, when the team was averaging around 25,000 per game their losses were $19 million US, so I guess that $30 million number I have heard circulating makes sense.

esquire Nov 8, 2021 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy (Post 9445505)
I've been hearing that TFC's losses this year will approach or even exceed $30 million US! I guess that's not surprising as their season ticket base has dropped to 15,000 or so and many games had 7,000 fans in the stands. A few years ago, when the team was averaging around 25,000 per game their losses were $19 million US, so I guess that $30 million number I have heard circulating makes sense.

I find this baffling, I don't get why a team that had established a solid local fanbase would be suffering this much. Their ticket prices are not unreasonable, and their games are played outdoors which should reduce if not altogether eliminate covid-related hesitancy to attend.

JHikka Nov 8, 2021 10:18 PM

TFC didn't activate and hold STHs to matches for 2021 so the attendances were people who physically bought tickets for each match.

In saying that, they had an abysmal year despite still having the 2nd-highest payroll in MLS (at $17M USD) - they'll be shedding a lot of that deadweight in the winter so that'll decrease. An aberration of a year and probably not anything that will trend long-term. For any team, TFC or otherwise, it'll be really, really difficult to extrapolate much of anything from 2021 with much use until we're well beyond 2022 and 2023.

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire
I find this baffling, I don't get why a team that had established a solid local fanbase would be suffering this much. Their ticket prices are not unreasonable, and their games are played outdoors which should reduce if not altogether eliminate covid-related hesitancy to attend.

Team was bad and tickets aren't cheap. MLSE isn't moving prices around to adjust for demand. You can buy resales for $15-30 but tickets direct from MLSE still cost upwards of $30-50 which is far too much for an awful team.

king10 Nov 8, 2021 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9445509)
I find this baffling, I don't get why a team that had established a solid local fanbase would be suffering this much. Their ticket prices are not unreasonable, and their games are played outdoors which should reduce if not altogether eliminate covid-related hesitancy to attend.

Team has been terrible this year and the knowledgeable fans are fed up with the teams leadership.

Once they start winning fans will be back.

Denscity Nov 9, 2021 5:11 AM

25000 people at the Vancouver Whitecaps match then right after almost 19000 for the Canucks game across the street.

Denscity Nov 9, 2021 5:12 AM

And the Whitecaps made the playoffs!!

JHikka Nov 16, 2021 3:17 PM

Bathurst joins Baie-Comeau in the group of QMJHL teams which require direct municipal funding to stay afloat:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9452230)
via Francois Le Blanc of Radio Canada:

The City of Bathurst has agreed to begin funding the AB Titan to ensure the team stays in Bathurst. $75,000 from the lodging tax and another $100,000 over two years from general municipal funds. And the City will help the team find additional revenue sources.

https://twitter.com/RCFrancois/statu...10065434656772


esquire Nov 16, 2021 3:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9452233)
Bathurst joins Baie-Comeau in the group of QMJHL teams which require direct municipal funding to stay afloat:

Subsidizing a major junior hockey team seems like quite a burden for a place as small as Bathurst (pop. 11,897) to take on.

I admit I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to junior hockey (at least in the paying close attention sense), but I do find their business models curious. There are so many teams that can barely draw a crowd during the regular season... I don't get how they can all make it work year after year.

JHikka Dec 16, 2021 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9435362)
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.co...rnational.aspx

Nineteen NFL teams bid for int'l marketing rights
BY BEN FISCHER
10.26.2021

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGq3HxYW...pg&name=medium
https://twitter.com/NFL345/status/14...227652/photo/1

The league announced Wednesday that 18 teams have been awarded marketing rights across eight different countries. This initiative, known as the International Home Marketing Areas program, grants clubs access to international territories for marketing, fan engagement and commercialization as they build their global brands and drive NFL fan growth internationally.

Strategic efforts in these international markets include: in-person and digital marketing, corporate sponsorship sales, fan events and activations, youth football activities, merchandise sales and co-marketing relationships with other sports and entertainment properties in the market.


https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-awards-...ight-countries

esquire Dec 16, 2021 4:26 PM

^ Very curious to me that the Bills are not included among the teams sharing the Canadian territory. At one time they had a pretty significant Canadian fanbase. In the 90s when they were playing in a series of Super Bowls they seemed like the de facto Southern Ontario home team.

At the same time the Minnesota Vikings are included, but I would think their fanbase is pretty tiny in comparison and made up mostly of a small number of people in Southern Manitoba, NWO and maybe a handful in Southern Sask. I remember at one time Scott Taylor of the Winnipeg Free Press was doing his damndest to get people to care about the Vikings but it never worked, most NFL fans just cheered for whatever team they liked. I'd imagine the Packers probably have far more fans around here than the Vikings do.

JHikka Dec 16, 2021 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9478408)
^ Very curious to me that the Bills are not included among the teams sharing the Canadian territory. At one time they had a pretty significant Canadian fanbase. In the 90s when they were playing in a series of Super Bowls they seemed like the de facto Southern Ontario home team.

At the same time the Minnesota Vikings are included, but I would think their fanbase is pretty tiny in comparison and made up mostly of a small number of people in Southern Manitoba, NWO and maybe a handful in Southern Sask. I remember at one time Scott Taylor of the Winnipeg Free Press was doing his damndest to get people to care about the Vikings but it never worked, most NFL fans just cheered for whatever team they liked. I'd imagine the Packers probably have far more fans around here than the Vikings do.

Curious that neither Buffalo or Green Bay are one of the 18 teams looking for international partnerships as a part of this program. I assumed back in October that Buffalo would be an easy one but I guess not. :haha:

AFAIK Buffalo's Canadian fanbase is still pretty strong. I know a handful of Bills STHs in Toronto and Hamilton who routinely went down for games pre-COVID. It's also interesting that the Bills don't have the crowd issues in 2021 that the Sabres are currently experiencing, so I guess they can rely on local Upstate NY market a lot more than the Sabres can, and rely a lot less on Southern Ontario than the Sabres do.

I guess we'll see what comes of the increased Vikings and Seahawks presence in Canada. The Seahawks are the more interesting of the two given their proximity to Vancouver and how the Lions have been doing as of late, IMO.

esquire Dec 16, 2021 4:38 PM

The Seahawks seem like more of a natural fit because of their proximity to Vancouver and area.

The Vikings don't really have that advantage. I know some people around here who have Vikings season tickets but not many are actual Vikings fans, they tend to go down to watch the teams they actually do like or very big games and then just sell off the rest. I suppose it's possible, but I'd be surprised if there were more than 1,000 Canadians who regularly attend Vikings games, like more than 1 game a season, at least pre-covid. Maybe more hold season tickets as speculators.

JHikka Dec 16, 2021 6:07 PM

For the 'TSN doesn't want to show BC teams!!!' crowd.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGvuzJ3X...pg&name=medium

https://twitter.com/CHLHockey/status...026370/photo/1

esquire Dec 16, 2021 6:15 PM

Why are the Winnipeg ICE never on CBC or TSN? They're only the number one ranked team in the country... I know our arena probably sucks for broadcasts but they do play road games in legitimate junior rinks.

It is nice to see some more live junior hockey on those networks, though. The next step is for those networks to do a game of the week for the entire season and create some predictability in the TV schedule.

JHikka Dec 16, 2021 7:10 PM

I'd imagine Edmonton would have a larger grievance. They're likely Memorial Cup-bound and don't feature for TSN post-New Years. They don't have the arena-for-TV issue that Winnipeg has. They have four players at the World Juniors. Seems like an easy viewing for TSN. :shrug:

esquire Dec 16, 2021 7:22 PM

I don't know that I agree Edmonton is Memorial Cup bound ;) ;) ;)

But I do agree that they have a grievance for sure. Normally Calgary/Edmonton tend to be the most prominent WHL teams in terms of TV coverage but oddly neither one is getting the TSN treatment.

manny_santos Dec 16, 2021 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9478408)
^ Very curious to me that the Bills are not included among the teams sharing the Canadian territory. At one time they had a pretty significant Canadian fanbase. In the 90s when they were playing in a series of Super Bowls they seemed like the de facto Southern Ontario home team.

At the same time the Minnesota Vikings are included, but I would think their fanbase is pretty tiny in comparison and made up mostly of a small number of people in Southern Manitoba, NWO and maybe a handful in Southern Sask. I remember at one time Scott Taylor of the Winnipeg Free Press was doing his damndest to get people to care about the Vikings but it never worked, most NFL fans just cheered for whatever team they liked. I'd imagine the Packers probably have far more fans around here than the Vikings do.

I have only ever known one Vikings fan in my whole life. She was from Southwestern Ontario, and I believe her father was also a Vikings fan.

I know fewer Detroit Lions fans than Vikings fans. Everyone I knew in Ontario were Buffalo fans, or less commonly, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, or one of the NCAA teams. Quite a few Michigan fans in SW Ontario, not surprisingly.

Djeffery Dec 16, 2021 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manny_santos (Post 9479009)
I have only ever known one Vikings fan in my whole life. She was from Southwestern Ontario, and I believe her father was also a Vikings fan.

I know fewer Detroit Lions fans than Vikings fans. Everyone I knew in Ontario were Buffalo fans, or less commonly, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, or one of the NCAA teams. Quite a few Michigan fans in SW Ontario, not surprisingly.

Was his name Don? lol Only Vikings fan I ever met in London. I knew more Lions fans than Bills fans, but by far, the crowd I knew in a couple neighbourhood bars were Cowboys, Packers and Steelers fans.

esquire Dec 17, 2021 12:17 AM

The Vikings are a bigger deal in MB/SK/NWO since they are they are the closest NFL team. I wouldn't expect to come across too many Vikings fans in southern Ontario!

thurmas Dec 17, 2021 12:44 AM

Vikings and Packers are most popular in manitoba. Many friends at my work go down to the twin cities once or twice a year to see Vikings games.

Denscity Dec 17, 2021 1:19 AM

And of course in BC it's Seahawks country.

EpicPonyTime Dec 17, 2021 6:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9479090)
The Vikings are a bigger deal in MB/SK/NWO since they are they are the closest NFL team. I wouldn't expect to come across too many Vikings fans in southern Ontario!

I am from Sask and I don't think I know any Vikings players. Maybe it is more common down near Regina, but the Packers or Seahawks always seemed like the most popular team.

Denscity Dec 17, 2021 6:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9478579)

Hey they gave us something! I guess being the second largest English speaking market in the country DOES mean something after all lol.

JHikka Dec 17, 2021 2:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 9479358)
Hey they gave us something! I guess being the second largest English speaking market in the country DOES mean something after all lol.

Media markets aren't drawn like that.

Denscity Dec 19, 2021 1:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JHikka (Post 9479463)
Media markets aren't drawn like that.

Vancouver is also larger than English Montreal so still second largest.

Acajack Dec 19, 2021 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9479090)
The Vikings are a bigger deal in MB/SK/NWO since they are they are the closest NFL team. I wouldn't expect to come across too many Vikings fans in southern Ontario!

Outside of the very immediate border areas (Niagara and Windsor) where the NFL clubs right across the border are most popular, it's always seemed to me that NFL fandom in southern Ontario is mostly a hodgepodge of teams.

The teams that are successful right now or in recent years factor into it a lot in my observation. There were relatively few Patriots fans prior to the 2000s but now there are tons of them.

Same goes for Quebec.

Quebec all of a sudden got tons of Chiefs fans (Laurent Duvernay-Tardif plus a good team) whereas before KC barely registered a blip here.

The Steelers were for a long time a fairly popular team here as the Terry Bradshaw years coincided with the time period that Quebecers started paying attention to the NFL. This has since faded quite a bit among younger generations.

I wonder if the Jets will slowly become popular here? Don't think I've ever seen Jets gear here in Quebec.

Another thing that seems common among NFL fans in both Ontario and Quebec is "I took a piss in Denver once so I'm die-hard Broncos fan, let's paint the baby's room in orange!"

esquire Dec 19, 2021 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9481189)
Another thing that seems common among NFL fans in both Ontario and Quebec is "I took a piss in Denver once so I'm die-hard Broncos fan, let's paint the baby's room in orange!"

:haha:

I have definitely noticed this too.

JHikka Jan 17, 2022 9:23 PM

First numbers for CHL on TSN:

Jan 14
Raptors/Pistons: 298k (TSN)
WWE Smackdown: 178k (SN360)
Stars/Panthers: 82k (SN)
Sudbury/Kingston: 49k (TSN)
Mavs/Grizzlies: 25k (SN1)
Prince George/Vancouver: 20k (TSN)

https://twitter.com/AHBSeaborn/statu...44215613915137

Berklon Jan 25, 2022 2:59 PM

Huge numbers for this past weekends round of NFL playoff games:

NFL TV Ratings

Bills/Chiefs: 2.370M
Rams/Bucs: 1.849M
Packers/49ers: 1.524M
Bengals/Titans: 1.335M

Acajack Jan 25, 2022 3:16 PM

There was a lot of raving in the Quebec media yesterday about this weekend's NFL games and how awesome they were (which is true), but the ratings on RDS that have come out are pretty low:

Bengals vs Titans: 188 000
49ers vs Packers: 138 000
Rams vs Buccaneers: 267 000
Bills vs Chiefs: 256 000

Obviously some people in Quebec (even some francophones) watch them on anglophone channels but still these numbers are quite low.

Especially given all the recent chatter about the weekend's games in traditional and social media here.

I believe the Super Bowl routinely tops 1 million viewers on RDS.

NFL is clearly growing fast in popularity in Quebec but sometimes I am reminded that it still can be a bit of a niche thing for most people.

samne Jan 25, 2022 3:44 PM

Wow…big numbers for the NFL. The NFL just produces a superior TV product beyond the other sports leagues.

Not surprised the Bills/Chiefs topped. A lot of S Ontario rekindled their connection to the Bills since their heyday in the 90s.

WhipperSnapper Jan 25, 2022 3:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9481189)

The teams that are successful right now or in recent years factor into it a lot in my observation. There were relatively few Patriots fans prior to the 2000s but now there are tons of them.

My impression as well. Lot of bandwagon gamblers or people that get wrapped up in the media frenzy (like having to take selfies everywhere as proof they were there) rather than Football fans

esquire Jan 25, 2022 4:06 PM

The bandwagoning thing doesn't bother me as far as the NFL is concerned. If I liked, say, the Giants and they had two bad seasons in a row, you best believe I'd be dropping them like a hot coal.

If you live in your favourite team's city then yeah, some measure of loyalty is expected. But as Canadians we're all basically free agents. Pick whoever's interesting, don't be like that idiot I once lived near who was all in for the Browns year after year.

Berklon Jan 25, 2022 4:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9513588)
If you live in your favourite team's city then yeah, some measure of loyalty is expected. But as Canadians we're all basically free agents. Pick whoever's interesting, don't be like that idiot I once lived near who was all in for the Browns year after year.

So people are idiots if they stick to supporting a team through thick and thin? That's certainly one take.

esquire Jan 25, 2022 4:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 9513613)
So people are idiots if they stick to supporting a team through thick and thin? That's certainly one take.

If it makes you happy to cheer for a perennial loser like the Detroit Lions year after year then fill your boots, but just remember that nobody respects you any more than they do someone who buys a new jersey and cheers for someone different every season.

thurmas Jan 25, 2022 5:06 PM

Nfl games have been extremely entertaining this year.

Berklon Jan 25, 2022 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esquire (Post 9513664)
If it makes you happy to cheer for a perennial loser like the Detroit Lions year after year then fill your boots, but just remember that nobody respects you any more than they do someone who buys a new jersey and cheers for someone different every season.

You may have dissed a lot of Leaf fans. :haha:

I think it's fine to stay loyal to a losing team - I just think if they suck for long enough, you can punish them financially by not watching games (live or on TV), buying merchandise, etc. You stick with them, but you hold back your money until they get their shit together. At least that's one way to deal with them without jumping to another team.

However, I don't get how people can wrap themselves up into a sports team - especially as they get older. Fine for a kid, but as an adult it's kinda weird to me they'd spend so much time, energy and money on it. Unless you're an athlete or involved in the business of it - it's just sports. There's more to life.

esquire Jan 25, 2022 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 9513726)
However, I don't get how people can wrap themselves up into a sports team - especially as they get older. Fine for a kid, but as an adult it's kinda weird to me they'd spend so much time, energy and money on it. Unless you're an athlete or involved in the business of it - it's just sports. There's more to life.

Unhealthy obsessions with anything are by definition going to be bad for you, but to most people sports are just a harmless form of entertainment. Is watching a football game on TSN any worse than watching a movie on STARZ or watching Beat Bobby Flay on the Food Network?

Acajack Jan 25, 2022 5:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9513708)
Nfl games have been extremely entertaining this year.

Trying to be as impartial an observer as possible, and even as a longtime CFL fan I have to admit that the NFL's product may have entered a golden age in the past couple of years.

I really get the feeling that the sport both on and off the field is at its peak or in its prime as an athletic and entertainment product.

There really isn't anything like it, in North America and perhaps the world even.

(Watching some of the action I was sarcastically thinking on the weekend that the NFL might finally be living up to the hype that all those wannabes were trying to sell me on in high school and university in the 80s and 90s! :haha:)

Some of their rules still suck though - like the way they play overtime, and of course the fair catch!

Acajack Jan 25, 2022 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon (Post 9513726)
You may have dissed a lot of Leaf fans. :haha:

I think it's fine to stay loyal to a losing team - I just think if they suck for long enough, you can punish them financially by not watching games (live or on TV), buying merchandise, etc. You stick with them, but you hold back your money until they get their shit together. At least that's one way to deal with them without jumping to another team.

However, I don't get how people can wrap themselves up into a sports team - especially as they get older. Fine for a kid, but as an adult it's kinda weird to me they'd spend so much time, energy and money on it. Unless you're an athlete or involved in the business of it - it's just sports. There's more to life.

Someone once told me that it's not normal to be obsessed with any sports team unless a) one of your kids or b) a family member or close friend plays on it.

suburbanite Jan 25, 2022 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9513743)
Some of their rules still suck though - like the way they play overtime, and of course the fair catch!

The fair catch is designed to keep football around as a sport 20 years from now. Youth enrollment in football is tanking due to the revelations surrounding concussions and CTE. Punt and kick returns are statistically the most dangerous plays in football.

Acajack Jan 25, 2022 5:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suburbanite (Post 9513753)
The fair catch is designed to keep football around as a sport 20 years from now. Youth enrollment in football is tanking due to the revelations surrounding concussions and CTE. Punt and kick returns are statistically the most dangerous plays in football.

Hasn't the fair catch rule in American football been around for about a century?

thurmas Jan 25, 2022 6:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack (Post 9513743)
Trying to be as impartial an observer as possible, and even as a longtime CFL fan I have to admit that the NFL's product may have entered a golden age in the past couple of years.

I really get the feeling that the sport both on and off the field is at its peak or in its prime as an athletic and entertainment product.

There really isn't anything like it, in North America and perhaps the world even.

(Watching some of the action I was sarcastically thinking on the weekend that the NFL might finally be living up to the hype that all those wannabes were trying to sell me on in high school and university in the 80s and 90s! :haha:)

Some of their rules still suck though - like the way they play overtime, and of course the fair catch!

I saw last week that 75 out of the 100 most watched TV programs watched last year in the u.s was NFL football. That's insane not one movie TV show and not one mlb NBA or NHL game even cracked the top 100 most watch list only the presidential debates and Oprah's interview with Meghan and Harry did

Berklon Jan 25, 2022 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thurmas (Post 9513835)
I saw last week that 75 out of the 100 most watched TV programs watched last year in the u.s was NFL football. That's insane not one movie TV show and not one mlb NBA or NHL game even cracked the top 100 most watch list only the presidential debates and Oprah's interview with Meghan and Harry did

Surprising there wouldn't be any MLB or NBA games - even if they were just the championship games. The NHL is not surprising at all. If the NFL were on strike for the year, I still don't think the NHL would crack the top 100.


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