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Dominion301 Mar 4, 2022 2:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LO 044 (Post 9554230)
Does Sunwing actually own any aircraft? If not then in essence WestJet is buying up a bunch of Czech pilot contracts for the winter seasons. WestJet should change it's name from "The Spirit of Canada" to "Competition is so overrated".

Yes they have 10 737s in their owned fleet. Once traffic rebounds, pre-pandemic WG would bring in an additional 30 from Europe. It’s hard to believe WS will ever have enough slack to fully cover WG’s needs even if they do reduce some overlap.

hehehe Mar 4, 2022 3:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9556331)
Yes they have 10 737s in their owned fleet. Once traffic rebounds, pre-pandemic WG would bring in an additional 30 from Europe. It’s hard to believe WS will ever have enough slack to fully cover WG’s needs even if they do reduce some overlap.

The announcement seems to indicate that the leased planes will fly in the summer now too (year round)? Or am I wrong?

casper Mar 4, 2022 5:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hehehe (Post 9556380)
The announcement seems to indicate that the leased planes will fly in the summer now too (year round)? Or am I wrong?

The leased plans are from Europe and would come with pilots.

In winter, there European partner would send some of their aircraft over to Canada with European pilots who would work the winter in Canada. Sunwings big thing is flying Canadians down to sun destinations in Mexico during the winter.

In Summer those aircraft would go back to Europe with their pilots. In addition Sunwings would charter some of the aircraft with Sunwings pilots to their European partner to operate in Europe.

hollywoodcory Mar 4, 2022 6:58 AM

In the most recent schedule update, WS has reduced YYZ-LGA from 7x daily to just 2x daily for S22.

I'm wondering if this is implying WS/DL are going to go to try for their JV again. I believe LGA slots were the main issue the last time?

casper Mar 4, 2022 9:11 AM

This does sound quite odd.

So a business jet chartered for Russians arrives in Yellowknife from Geneva. Apparently they look to be organizing a round the world car tour.

So if this is all legit it does yield the question; are they this entitled or this out of touch with the state of the world today?

The article:
https://cabinradio.ca/86909/news/no-...mzGCv2AC7ysvtA

thenoflyzone Mar 4, 2022 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9556494)
are they this entitled or this out of touch with the state of the world today?

I don't think it's either. They probably planned their expedition several months or even a year ago, and they didn't want to hold it off. Besides, it's not their fault. Your average Russian citizen doesn't know that Transport Canada's regulations also apply to charter flights. The blame rests solely on the pilots or the company the jet belonged to, both of which should have known that Russians couldn't fly to Canada under charter operations.

The pilots should have read the Canadian NOTAMs. The dispatchers as well. Someone missed the mark, and I highly doubt its the Russian citizens on board.

Dominion301 Mar 4, 2022 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9556476)
In the most recent schedule update, WS has reduced YYZ-LGA from 7x daily to just 2x daily for S22.

I'm wondering if this is implying WS/DL are going to go to try for their JV again. I believe LGA slots were the main issue the last time?

I think that's a sign the, to say the least, ambitious plans the airlines have this summer aren't going to fully materialize. With the war, who knows how much that'll depress traffic, especially to Europe.

It's also because WS don't need to slot squat as the US airports have allowed international carriers another slot waiver for 2022 at slot-controlled airports.

hehehe Mar 4, 2022 4:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9556596)
I think that's a sign the, to say the least, ambitious plans the airlines have this summer aren't going to fully materialize. With the war, who knows how much that'll depress traffic, especially to Europe.

It's also because WS don't need to slot squat as the US airports have allowed international carriers another slot waiver for 2022 at slot-controlled airports.

Will the war depress traffic to Europe that much though, besides to Russia/Ukraine/Belarus?

Calfan12 Mar 4, 2022 6:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9556596)
I think that's a sign the, to say the least, ambitious plans the airlines have this summer aren't going to fully materialize. With the war, who knows how much that'll depress traffic, especially to Europe.

It's also because WS don't need to slot squat as the US airports have allowed international carriers another slot waiver for 2022 at slot-controlled airports.

Yep & even with WestJet cutting back on some Summer 2022 flight routes /frequencies. Calgary YYC, Toronto YYZ and Vancouver YVR won’t be effected by it that much, as most WS consolidated flights will be through those 3.

thenoflyzone Mar 5, 2022 12:31 AM

YVR and YUL posted 2021 full year figures. I've all but given up on YYZ. Their last posted month was February 2021. Also, still waiting for YYC and YEG December numbers.

YVR

Total: 7,086,602 -3.0%

Domestic: 5,160,742 +21.7%
International: 994,627 -42%
Transborder: 931,233 -31.2%

Intl+transboder: 1,925,860 -37.1%

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

YUL

Total: 5,201,751 -4.3%

Domestic: 2,442,801 +21.6%
International: 1,903,257 -20.2%
Transborder: 855,693 -17.8%

Intl+transborder: 2,758,950 -19.5%

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...et_2021_EN.pdf

whatnext Mar 5, 2022 12:48 AM

Speaking of Russian oligarchs:

Russian oligarch could have indirect stake in WestJet through Sunwing deal
ERIC ATKINSTRANSPORTATION REPORTER
PUBLISHED 2 HOURS AGO

A Russian oligarch on Europe’s blacklist could end up holding an indirect stake in Onex Corp.’s WestJet Group if the investment company’s takeover of Sunwing Airlines is approved by the Canadian government.

Alexei Mordashov, one of Russia’s wealthiest men, was sanctioned by the European Union on Monday over the country’s invasion of Ukraine. He owns 34 per cent of London-listed tourism giant TUI AG, which owns 49 per cent of Toronto’s Sunwing....


On Wednesday, WestJet announced a deal to buy Sunwing for an undisclosed amount. In the takeover, which requires regulatory approval, TUI and Sunwing owner Stephen Hunter would become minority shareholders of WestJet Group....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...rough-sunwing/

thenoflyzone Mar 5, 2022 1:58 AM

^ I guess WestJet and Sunwing should be banned from Canadian airspace....:runaway:

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557428)
YVR and YUL posted 2021 full year figures. I've all but given up on YYZ. Their last posted month was February 2021. Also, still waiting for YYC and YEG December numbers.

Some other airports have posted 2021 numbers as well, including YLW, YHM and YQM. I've updated wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_Canada#2021

thenoflyzone Mar 5, 2022 1:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9556596)

It's also because WS don't need to slot squat as the US airports have allowed international carriers another slot waiver for 2022 at slot-controlled airports.

Have they?

The FAA hasn't issued COVID relief slot guidelines for S22 yet, at least not publicly.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ry_information

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dominion301 (Post 9556596)
I think that's a sign the, to say the least, ambitious plans the airlines have this summer aren't going to fully materialize. With the war, who knows how much that'll depress traffic, especially to Europe.

I don't think this is indicative of weaker demand for S22.

Let's be honest. WS has probably always lost money on YYZ-LGA. They're flying the route in order to keep the slots. Period.

Their competition on the route, for the most part, flies regional aircraft with regional crews, meaning lower costs, while they're stuck flying fuel inefficient B737-700s, on mainline pilot pay. Fuel efficiency was probably even worse when they were using the B737-600s on the route.

Yes, AC puts mainline equipment on the route during peak times, but at least its the CSeries, which burns 20% less fuel than those old 737s.

So, on a very busy route such as this, where you need to match fares, it's a given YYZ-LGA is losing money for WS, and probably always has. So if in fact they have already been told to expect slot waivers for S22, it's a given YYZ-LGA would be downgraded.

What is WS's current operations on YYZ-LGA in W22? Probably only 1x daily no? So it will be the same thing in S22. I think WS knows it can put those 737s to better use on other routes.

As for the war, as long as it stays in Ukraine, I doubt it will depress traffic on Canada-Western Europe this summer.

kattiff Mar 5, 2022 3:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557475)
^ I guess WestJet and Sunwing should be banned from Canadian airspace....:runaway:



Some other airports have posted 2021 numbers as well, including YLW, YHM and YQM. I've updated wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_Canada#2021

So nice to see Winnipeg jump ahead of Ottawa lol

casper Mar 5, 2022 4:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557688)
Have they?

The FAA hasn't issued COVID relief slot guidelines for S22 yet, at least not publicly.

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...ry_information



I don't think this is indicative of weaker demand for S22.

Let's be honest. WS has probably always lost money on YYZ-LGA. They're flying the route in order to keep the slots. Period.

Their competition on the route, for the most part, flies regional aircraft with regional crews, meaning lower costs, while they're stuck flying fuel inefficient B737-700s, on mainline pilot pay. Fuel efficiency was probably even worse when they were using the B737-600s on the route.

Yes, AC puts mainline equipment on the route during peak times, but at least its the CSeries, which burns 20% less fuel than those old 737s.

So, on a very busy route such as this, where you need to match fares, it's a given YYZ-LGA is losing money for WS, and probably always has. So if in fact they have already been told to expect slot waivers for S22, it's a given YYZ-LGA would be downgraded.

What is WS's current operations on YYZ-LGA in W22? Probably only 1x daily no? So it will be the same thing in S22. I think WS knows it can put those 737s to better use on other routes.

As for the war, as long as it stays in Ukraine, I doubt it will depress traffic on Canada-Western Europe this summer.

So basically WestJet should be going to a regional operator and hiring them to operate the flight for them with a CRJ or something similar.

I would have expected WS to be running connecting traffic on Delta on that route.

hollywoodcory Mar 5, 2022 4:47 PM

WS YYZ-LGA gradually goes up to 2x daily by late April. The other odd part is even with DL codeshare it drops from 8x daily in late April to just 5x daily from May 1.

Still odd that WS won't extend its modified schedules into May. Well a few routes have gotten some adjustments the bulk of the schedule is still pre-COVID. Pretty sure they are the last NA carrier to make summer changes.

YYC-LON still jumps from 4x weekly in late April to 11x weekly May 1st.

thewave46 Mar 5, 2022 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9557756)
So basically WestJet should be going to a regional operator and hiring them to operate the flight for them with a CRJ or something similar.

I would have expected WS to be running connecting traffic on Delta on that route.

Maybe some, but Delta also flies that route as well.

LaGuardia isn’t a fantastic connection point either, unless one has to connect there. I would wager the bulk of traffic through the airport is origin-and-departure in nature.

Nicko999 Mar 5, 2022 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9557428)
YVR and YUL posted 2021 full year figures. I've all but given up on YYZ. Their last posted month was February 2021. Also, still waiting for YYC and YEG December numbers.

YVR

Total: 7,086,602 -3.0%

Domestic: 5,160,742 +21.7%
International: 994,627 -42%
Transborder: 931,233 -31.2%

Intl+transboder: 1,925,860 -37.1%

https://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/docum...fic-update.pdf

YUL

Total: 5,201,751 -4.3%

Domestic: 2,442,801 +21.6%
International: 1,903,257 -20.2%
Transborder: 855,693 -17.8%

Intl+transborder: 2,758,950 -19.5%

https://www.admtl.com/sites/default/...et_2021_EN.pdf

Disappointing results from YVR and YUL. A result of the over the top COVID restrictions. I believe Canada is one of 3 big developed country to record a weaker 2021 than 2020. The other 2 are the UK and Australia obviously.

YYZ I believe is posting stats on a quarterly basis now.

thenoflyzone Mar 6, 2022 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 9557906)
Disappointing results from YVR and YUL. A result of the over the top COVID restrictions. I believe Canada is one of 3 big developed country to record a weaker 2021 than 2020. The other 2 are the UK and Australia obviously.

YYZ I believe is posting stats on a quarterly basis now.

It's normal that the 3 countries you mentioned, have their busiest airports with lower traffic in 2021 than 2020.

All 3 countries and their major hubs (LHR, MAN, YYZ, SYD, MEL, YVR, YUL, etc) rely heavily on international travel. With border restrictions and travel restrictions still in place for most of 2021, it's normal that these airports had lower overall numbers in 2021.

That's not the case in other developed countries such as the U.S, China, where their domestic travel numbers dwarf international travel.

It's worth noting, however, that even here in Canada, airports that rely much less on international travel, such as YYC, YHZ, YLW, YQM, etc. all had a busier 2021 compared to 2020.

whatnext Mar 6, 2022 2:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 9557906)
Disappointing results from YVR and YUL. A result of the over the top COVID restrictions. I believe Canada is one of 3 big developed country to record a weaker 2021 than 2020. The other 2 are the UK and Australia obviously.

YYZ I believe is posting stats on a quarterly basis now.

With the restrictions China put in place its not surprising. Add in Japan and Australia and its not surprising YVR’s numbers are down no matter what Canada did.


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