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thenoflyzone Jan 15, 2018 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8047298)
I might add YVR also has the lowest “sun destination” international traffic per capita of any of the major cities in Canada. The flights I am referring to of course are those flights where Canadians flee the bitter cold temps in the winter. I’m not saying I blame them and I’m not saying Vancouverites don’t travel to warm sunny destinations but on a much lesser scale. Just look at the never-ending list of destinations for some cities and you get my drift. These make up a HUGE amount of international travel from other Canadian cities... those international numbers aren’t to just European or other global destinations.

An international destination is an international destination. Whether it's Varadero or Shenzhen is irrelevant. Vancouver has a more temperate climate, hence it's citizens dont feel the need to flee it in winter.

It's currently -23C in YUL and we got 36 cm of snow 3 days ago. We've had over 100 cm so far this year, and winter is nowhere near over. Where would you go if you could fly out tomorrow for one week?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8047298)
YVR is the best globally connected city of its size in North America in fact better connected than many cities much much larger too.

I agree, and I never said it wasn't.
"diverse" and "best globally connected city of its size" are two different things.

jmt18325 Jan 15, 2018 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047364)
An international destination is an international destination.

It shouldn't matter if it's in the US, either, then.

SkahHigh Jan 15, 2018 3:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8044462)
YUL-YYZ isn't even Air Canada's busiest route, by passenger traffic it is YYZ-YVR. While some days frequencies might be higher on YUL-YYZ, the aircraft used on YVR-YYZ is much larger and as a result, total pax numbers are higher

The route also has WestJet and Porter operating it... So pointing out to AC is useless. We’re talking about total daily pax numbers for a corridor, regardless the airline. YUL-YYZ is the busiest in Canada bar none.

thenoflyzone Jan 15, 2018 3:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325 (Post 8047398)
It shouldn't matter if it's in the US, either, then.

You're right.

On another note, and speaking of diverse.....

Tunisair increasing service to YUL.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...ervice-in-s18/

Quote:

Tunisair during summer peak season plans to introduce additional frequency on Tunis – Montreal route, which would see the addition of 4th weekly rotation, from 18JUN18 to 15SEP18. The additional service, operated by A330-200, is available for reservation.

TU202 TUN1020 – 1415YUL 332 156
TU202 TUN1615 – 2010YUL 332 3

TU203 YUL1615 – 0530+1TUN 332 156
TU203 YUL2210 – 1125+1TUN 332 3
Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 8047413)
The route also has WestJet and Porter operating it... So pointing out to AC is useless. We’re talking about total daily pax numbers for a corridor, regardless the airline. YUL-YYZ is the busiest in Canada bar none.

indeed, over 60 flights each way between the two cities every day. It is still definitely one of the busiest domestic routes in the world in terms of frequency.

mezzanine Jan 15, 2018 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8047355)


definition of diverse: showing a great deal of variety; very different.

YUL has non stop service to more destinations in more countries in more continents than YVR. So again, by definition, YUL has a more diverse list of destinations than YVR.

These are not my opinions. These are facts.


Facts?

DrNest Jan 15, 2018 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mezzanine (Post 8047445)

That "Facts?" link takes you to an interesting article by OAG on Megahubs. It's criteria for connectivity includes domestic, and only flights within a 6 hour window. So doesn't give a full picture, nor does it take into account solely international destinations, which is what the argument between YUL and YVR appears to entail.

mezzanine Jan 15, 2018 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8047517)
That "Facts?" link takes you to an interesting article by OAG on Megahubs. It's criteria for connectivity includes domestic, and only flights within a 6 hour window. So doesn't give a full picture, nor does it take into account solely international destinations, which is what the argument between YUL and YVR appears to entail.

What? wow, that's a really useless fanboi stat. my bad then...

DrNest Jan 15, 2018 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mezzanine (Post 8047552)
What? wow, that's a really useless fanboi stat. my bad then...

So did you not actually read the article you posted when questioning thenoflyzone's "facts"?
I don't personally agree with OAG's assessment for connectivity to require a 6 hour window. For me I feel in you can fly into an airport from one destination, and depart the same airport to a different destination, be that with the same or different airlines, then there is connectivity.

mezzanine Jan 15, 2018 5:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 8047559)
So did you not actually read the article you posted when questioning thenoflyzone's "facts"?
I don't personally agree with OAG's assessment for connectivity to require a 6 hour window. For me I feel in you can fly into an airport from one destination, and depart the same airport to a different destination, be that with the same or different airlines, then there is connectivity.

I got lost when it was decided that transborder isn't international. ;-)

DrNest Jan 15, 2018 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mezzanine (Post 8047580)
I got lost when it was decided that transborder isn't international. ;-)

Me too. I don't get that either!

DrNest Jan 15, 2018 6:05 PM

For those that are interested and can get there, a public meeting for Toronto Island Billy Bishop Island City Centre Island Airport Island (aka CYTZ) is on Feb 7th discussing the future of the airport and its Master Plan.
Billy Bishop Master Plan Meeting

TorontoDrew Jan 15, 2018 6:35 PM

Oh no, are they trying again to expand the runway again to bring in the not so whisper silent jets? Not surprised as we are about to head into an election race in Toronto. No doubt Doug Ford will be a champion of big business over a better quality of living.

source: https://images.thestar.com
https://images.thestar.com/content/d...rop.1086x0.jpg

zahav Jan 15, 2018 6:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 8047413)
The route also has WestJet and Porter operating it... So pointing out to AC is useless. We’re talking about total daily pax numbers for a corridor, regardless the airline. YUL-YYZ is the busiest in Canada bar none.

I disagree. For much of the year (summer sched May-October), Westjet carries more pax between YVR and YYZ and than YYZ-YUL. The flights are majority 737-800, while Encore is now operating the majority of YYZ-YUL. I don't have the actual numbers from Westjet, but I think total pax traffic (not necessarily frequencies, since Encore can be more frequent and still have less pax than mainline) isn't that much more on YUL-YYZ. And I definitely don't think enough to offset the larger Air Canada numbers.

Also Porter doesn't operate from YYZ, so that doesn't count.

Canadian74 Jan 15, 2018 6:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 8047650)
No doubt Doug Ford will be a champion of big business over a better quality of living.

Extending the runway a few hundred feet impacts your quality of living?
Seriously?

GreaterMontréal Jan 15, 2018 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8047659)
I disagree. For much of the year (summer sched May-October), Westjet carries more pax between YVR and YYZ and than YYZ-YUL. The flights are majority 737-800, while Encore is now operating the majority of YYZ-YUL. I don't have the actual numbers from Westjet, but I think total pax traffic (not necessarily frequencies, since Encore can be more frequent and still have less pax than mainline) isn't that much more on YUL-YYZ. And I definitely don't think enough to offset the larger Air Canada numbers.

Also Porter doesn't operate from YYZ, so that doesn't count.

227 weekly flights from YUL to YYZ , Air Canada, Air Transat, Westjet

Johnny Aussie Jan 15, 2018 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal (Post 8047686)
YUL to YYZ is the 15th busiest air route in the world. 3rd in North America, 480 weekly flights
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routes...9quent%C3%A9es

You’re kidding right? That info is from 2007.

The info I posted was dated 2017.

I’ll repost it again for clarity.

https://www.oag.com/hubfs/Free_Repor...Report2018.pdf

YYZ-YUL is not even in the top 20 in the world.

MEL-SYD, BNE-SYD and MEL-BNE are though.

Remember too this list is just about frequencies. If it was based on capacity, YYZ-YUL would be even further down the list as most of AC’s flights are on 140 seat 320s and all but one of Westjet’s flights are on DH4s.

GreaterMontréal Jan 15, 2018 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 8047724)
You’re kidding right? That info is from 2007.

The info I posted was dated 2017.

I’ll repost it again for clarity.

https://www.oag.com/hubfs/Free_Repor...Report2018.pdf

YYZ-YUL is not even in the top 20 in the world.

MEL-SYD, BNE-SYD and MEL-BNE are though.

Remember too this list is just about frequencies. If it was based on capacity, YYZ-YUL would be even further down the list as most of AC’s flights are on 140 seat 320s and all but one of Westjet’s flights are on DH4s.

227 flights with 3 carriers,
+

Porter Airlines up to 46 daily flights, compared to 28 flights currently. A departure will take place on this route every 40 minutes, from 6:20 in the morning to 22:00 in the evening.

in 2011, Sky Regional ,Air Canada Express, offering 93 flights a week (up to 15 flights a day) between Montreal and Toronto Island Airport

Johnny Aussie Jan 15, 2018 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal (Post 8047734)
227 flights with 3 carriers,
+

Porter Airlines up to 46 daily flights, compared to 28 flights currently. A departure will take place on this route every 40 minutes, from 6:20 in the morning to 22:00 in the evening.

in 2011, Sky Regional ,Air Canada Express, offering 93 flights a week (up to 15 flights a day) between Montreal and Toronto Island Airport

Again, I’m talking 2017/2018 not 6 years ago and certainly not 11 years ago. If and when Porter increases to 46 daily (source?) we can revisit this conversation. Until then MEL-SYD remains #2 in the world and certainly much busier than YUL-YYZ for frequencies and MUCH larger in terms of seats. And as I said before MEL-SYD is over 9million pax per annum... TOTAL YUL domestic is only 6.4 million for all flights.. even if 60% of that is YUL-YTZ/YYZ that's still well under a half.

SkahHigh Jan 15, 2018 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8047659)
I disagree. For much of the year (summer sched May-October), Westjet carries more pax between YVR and YYZ and than YYZ-YUL. The flights are majority 737-800, while Encore is now operating the majority of YYZ-YUL. I don't have the actual numbers from Westjet, but I think total pax traffic (not necessarily frequencies, since Encore can be more frequent and still have less pax than mainline) isn't that much more on YUL-YYZ. And I definitely don't think enough to offset the larger Air Canada numbers.

Also Porter doesn't operate from YYZ, so that doesn't count.

You disagree on facts? How’s that possible?

How on earth would a Toronto-Vancouver flight have bigger pax numbers than Montreal-Toronto? It’s a 5-hour flight, not practical for business where you would have to fly 10 hours daily. Montreal-Toronto takes out 2 hours of your day, much more feasible time-wise. A lot of people in the business community do the Montreal-Toronto trip in a day because it’s so short. You’re just being stubborn.

thenoflyzone, I know you have aviation connections, do you have numbers for this?

zahav Jan 15, 2018 8:55 PM

Again if we are talking YYZ, Porter's flights don't factor in at all, they don't fly from Pearson. And Transat's barely on the YYZ-YUL route, save for a couple token flights same as YVR-YYZ, YUL-YVR, etc. The only two players are AC and WS, and both airlines fly smaller aircraft than on YYZ-YVR, and in summer at least, frequencies are also higher on YYZ-YVR


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