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ACT7 Jul 30, 2015 3:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7111203)
All 4 of Canada's major airports are on a roll.

A few mistakes/manipulations in that article btw.

First of which, its restaurants, parking and retail that account for 30% of YYZ airport's revenue, not just retail. (which of those do you think brings in the most money ! I doubt it's retail.)

Second, those PAX stats are to be taken with a grain of salt. 60% and 80% are littered in that article and paint a false picture. It paints a real doom and gloom picture for YVR, YUL and YYC, when that is clearly not the case. Let me elaborate. Only comparing absolute passenger growth between an airport serving 40 million passengers and one serving half that is a bit ridiculous.

Last year, Pearson handled 38.6 million passengers, up 2.5 million or 6.8 per cent from the year before. YVR handled 19.3 million, up 1.4 million. Comparing the 2.5 million of YYZ to the 1.4 million of YVR is a bit misleading considering the underlying premise of double the traffic at YYZ. You need to compare growth percentages as well, in order to have a more accurate feel of which airport is growing at a faster rate. And in that aspect, YVR lead the way in 2014, with a 7.7 % growth, compared to Toronto's 6.8%.

Anyone can manipulate stats. Here's me....."YUL's passenger count grew 100% since 2003, whereas YYZ's only grew by 60%". (This is true btw)

Bottom line, all 4 of Canada's major hubs are doing just fine, with growth rates in the 5 to 8% range a year.

As for the whole retail bit, no one really gives a damn that a rich guy bought a 20,000$ Omega from the airport. Since when does having high end retail stores at an Airport of Entry say anything about Canada and who we are ! Frankly, this article is a farce.

Using your argument, this year YYZ is outpacing YVR, YYC, and YUL both in absolute numbers and growth rate percentages (7% vs 5.31%, 1.07%, and 5.31% respectively).

I don't believe the article points to any doom and gloom with respect to Canada's other three major airports, but when absolute growth is higher than those three airports combined, it's hard to argue that that is irrelevant or somehow a manipulation of stats.

You seem a little defensive about YVR specifically when the article not only didn't criticize YVR, it complimented it on it's great retail. And you're right, comparing YYZ to YVR (an airport half the size) alone is a bit ridiculous but when you tally up YYC and YUL as well, the degree to which YYZ stands out is pretty remarkable.

jmt18325 Jul 30, 2015 5:08 AM

Don't know if it was posted, but Winnipeg is still turning out pretty decent numbers:

http://www.chrisd.ca/2015/07/28/winn...affic-revenue/

That's great for an airport that was stagnant for so many years.

thenoflyzone Jul 30, 2015 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7 (Post 7112650)
but when absolute growth is higher than those three airports combined

That's just it. It isn't.

Here's what the article says: "Total passenger growth at Pearson is close to 60% higher than Canada’s next three busiest airports (Vancouver, Calgary, and Montreal) combined."

This is false, at least in the absolute sense.

YYZ grew by 2.47 million passengers in 2014. YVR, YUL and YYC combined grew by 3.0 million. (1.4 mil for YVR, 900,000 for YYC and 700,000 for YUL)

So the absolute growth is largest at YUL, YYC and YVR combined, not YYZ.

What do you expect when a retail specialist writes about airport stats ! He should stick to what he knows best, and obviously it aint retail, as he got stats about that wrong as well.

flipv Jul 30, 2015 1:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7112898)
That's just it. It isn't.

Here's what the article says: "Total passenger growth at Pearson is close to 60% higher than Canada’s next three busiest airports (Vancouver, Calgary, and Montreal) combined."

This is false.

YYZ grew by 2.47 million passengers in 2014. YVR, YUL and YYC combined grew by 3.0 million. (1.4 mil for YVR, 900,000 for YYC and 700,000 for YUL)

So the absolute growth is largest at YUL, YYC and YVR combined, not YYZ.

What do you expect when a retail specialist writes about airport stats ! He should stick to what he knows best, and obviously it aint retail, as he got stats about that wrong as well.

Prove it.

thenoflyzone Jul 30, 2015 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipv (Post 7112910)
Prove it.

Already did.

Let me quote myself from earlier....

"First of which, its restaurants, parking and retail that account for 30% of YYZ airport's revenue, not just retail."

http://www.thestar.com/business/2015...n-airport.html

ACT7 Jul 30, 2015 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7112898)
That's just it. It isn't.

Here's what the article says: "Total passenger growth at Pearson is close to 60% higher than Canada’s next three busiest airports (Vancouver, Calgary, and Montreal) combined."

This is false, at least in the absolute sense.

YYZ grew by 2.47 million passengers in 2014. YVR, YUL and YYC combined grew by 3.0 million. (1.4 mil for YVR, 900,000 for YYC and 700,000 for YUL)

So the absolute growth is largest at YUL, YYC and YVR combined, not YYZ.

What do you expect when a retail specialist writes about airport stats ! He should stick to what he knows best, and obviously it aint retail, as he got stats about that wrong as well.

Buddy, in 2015 total passenger growth YTD at YYZ is 1,285,691. Total passenger growth at YVR, YYC, and YUL YTD combined is 716,857.

International growth at YYZ YTD is 594,599. Other three combined - 256,798.
Transborder is 336,462 vs 212,504
Domestic is 354,630 vs 247,555

What's the problem?

I don't think stats is your problem, more so it seems to be basic addition.

flipv Jul 30, 2015 1:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7112912)
Already did.

Let me quote myself from earlier....

"First of which, its restaurants, parking and retail that account for 30% of YYZ airport's revenue, not just retail."

Ok so he lumped non-aeronautical revenue as retail. Small misnomer.

Either way, I think retail includes restaurants.

thenoflyzone Jul 30, 2015 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7 (Post 7112914)
Buddy, in 2015 total passenger growth YTD at YYZ is 1,285,691. Total passenger growth at YVR, YYC, and YUL YTD combined is 716,857.

International growth at YYZ YTD is 594,599. Other three combined - 256,798.
Transborder is 336,462 vs 212,504
Domestic is 354,630 vs 247,555

What's the problem?

I don't think stats is your problem, more so it seems to be basic addition.

you're using 2015 five/six month stats. I'm using full year figures from the last year that was avlb, 2014 ! That's the problem.

ACT7 Jul 30, 2015 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipv (Post 7112918)
Ok so he lumped non-aeronautical revenue as retail. Small misnomer.

Either way, I think retail includes restaurants.

You're right - retail absolutely includes restaurants and any commercial broker will say the same thing.

It seems like thenoflyzone took personal offense to some perceived attack on YVR, which I did not get from that article.

SkydivePilot Jul 30, 2015 10:00 PM

Today's local news stated that the feds will $300,000-worth of funding to market the Regina and Saskatoon airports to U.S. carriers. YQR and YXE have experienced a reduction in trans-border service within the past year.

Have any of you guys heard similar news about such funding at your airports?

ACT7 Jul 31, 2015 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7112921)
you're using 2015 five/six month stats. I'm using full year figures from the last year that was avlb, 2014 ! That's the problem.

And where does it say in the article that it was for 2014? It doesn't say anything so the safe thing to assume would be the MOST current YTD stats.

And it looks like the way this year is turning out, YYZ will probably exceed the growth of all other three combined anyway.

thenoflyzone Jul 31, 2015 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7 (Post 7113744)
And where does it say in the article that it was for 2014? It doesn't say anything so the safe thing to assume would be the MOST current YTD stats.

And it looks like the way this year is turning out, YYZ will probably exceed the growth of all other three combined anyway.

Why should we assume anything. The person who wrote that useless piece of so called literature should have posted the year or months he was talking about.

All in all, just some bad journalism.

Usually in this industry (aviation), full year stats are what matters !

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACT7 (Post 7112922)
You're right - retail absolutely includes restaurants and any commercial broker will say the same thing.

It seems like thenoflyzone took personal offense to some perceived attack on YVR, which I did not get from that article.

I agree with you. But our author at retail-insider.com clearly says "shopping, and in particular luxury shopping, has become such a huge part of the airport experience that it now accounts for as much as 53% of total revenue in the case of Dubai, and 30% in the case of Pearson."

That is false and manipulative, as there is no mention of parking or restaurants (unless you like to wear the food you eat), which should be included in that figure.

Dude, say what you will, that article is crap. It seems like you are the one taking some personal offense of some kind. I'm simply exposing what that article is, utter rubbish, top to bottom!

ACT7 Aug 1, 2015 1:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7114931)
Why should we assume anything. The person who wrote that useless piece of so called literature should have posted the year or months he was talking about.

All in all, just some bad journalism.

Usually in this industry (aviation), full year stats are what matters !



I agree with you. But our author at retail-insider.com clearly says "shopping, and in particular luxury shopping, has become such a huge part of the airport experience that it now accounts for as much as 53% of total revenue in the case of Dubai, and 30% in the case of Pearson."

That is false and manipulative, as there is no mention of parking or restaurants (unless you like to wear the food you eat), which should be included in that figure.

Dude, say what you will, that article is crap. It seems like you are the one taking some personal offense of some kind. I'm simply exposing what that article is, utter rubbish, top to bottom!

The article is no more or less accurate than several articles published in mainstream newspapers, so you seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder with respect to either YVR, YUL, YYC or all three.

You've cherry-picked a couple of things that you deem as "manipulative" when in fact there's nothing in the article that's fundamentally incorrect. Seriously, you seem to filled with a lot of anger over something that has little to no impact on your life.

SkahHigh Aug 1, 2015 11:37 PM

YUL June stats are out

+3.9% for the month
+4.1% YTD growth for 7,492,842

DrNest Aug 2, 2015 2:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7112205)

European growth at YVR has been nothing short of astounding this year (8.5% increase in PAX) and loads on the UK runs have been more or less full all year. I would expect BA to add another plane to pick up the un-served demand or another airline (possibly Virgin Atlantic to return) to pick up the slack.

It will be a long time, if ever, for Virgin Atlantic to return flights back to CYVR. They've already said once their summer schedule finishes they have no plans to return to CYVR or anywhere else within Canada.
Following their partnership with Delta they are now focusing on the US connecting through Delta's hubs. Particularly KDTW, KJFK and KATL. I did read that they are going to be introducing flights into KSLC.

casper Aug 2, 2015 4:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 7115811)
It will be a long time, if ever, for Virgin Atlantic to return flights back to CYVR. They've already said once their summer schedule finishes they have no plans to return to CYVR or anywhere else within Canada.
Following their partnership with Delta they are now focusing on the US connecting through Delta's hubs. Particularly KDTW, KJFK and KATL. I did read that they are going to be introducing flights into KSLC.

With BA bring the A380 to YVR next summer and AC running the high density 777 I don't think we are going to see new flights out to London. That said, KLM and Air France could still up gage their flights a bit.

DrNest Aug 4, 2015 8:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7116011)
With BA bring the A380 to YVR next summer and AC running the high density 777 I don't think we are going to see new flights out to London. That said, KLM and Air France could still up gage their flights a bit.

KLM certainly are expanding their service in Canada. Running A330s into CYVR they do have fleet capacity to increase seat capacity on the route using B772/3 and/or B747. Whether they will is another matter.

Johnny Aussie Aug 4, 2015 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 7118108)
KLM certainly are expanding their service in Canada. Running A330s into CYVR they do have fleet capacity to increase seat capacity on the route using B772/3 and/or B747. Whether they will is another matter.

Funny you should bring that up. Decent capacity increases coming to both YVR and YYC.

Next summer KLM is putting the 777-200ER daily on both the YYC and YVR routes. No update on what their YEG plans are yet for next summer, still showing 4 weekly 332s.

This summer they are running four weekly 772s and three weekly 332s to YYC and daily 333s to YVR. They are also running four weekly 332s on the new YEG route.

Like most carriers though, they are phasing out their 744s.

KLM just updated their winter timetable and all flights to Western Canada will be operated by 332s.... YYC drops to six per week and YVR to five per week. This is the same as last winter. YEG drops to two or three times per week. The route was supposed to be thrice weekly for the entire winter but the Sunday flight is being dropped in Jan/Feb.

And of course the KL/AF group has added the new YVR-CDG route five weekly in the summer and thrice weekly over winter. A very nice addition for both summer and winter. Let's see what they do next summer!

thenoflyzone Aug 5, 2015 2:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7118182)

KLM just updated their winter timetable and all flights to Western Canada will be operated by 332s.... YYC drops to six per week and YVR to five per week. This is the same as last winter. YEG drops to two or three times per week. The route was supposed to be thrice weekly for the entire winter but the Sunday flight is being dropped in Jan/Feb.

So much for tuffy saying KL will remain 3 weekly at YEG throughout the winter.

Why even bother with 2 weekly. Just make the route seasonal already, which is what it should have been from the start. I think it's bound to happen. Most likely by next winter season. Jan and Feb traffic can easily be rerouted via YYC or YVR.

With all the winter activities avlb out west, it amazes me that KL cant run at least YVR or YYC on a daily basis.

Johnny Aussie Aug 5, 2015 4:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7118425)
So much for tuffy saying KL will remain 3 weekly at YEG throughout the winter.

Why even bother with 2 weekly. Just make the route seasonal already, which is what it should have been from the start. I think it's bound to happen. Most likely by next winter season. Jan and Feb traffic can easily be rerouted via YYC or YVR.

With all the winter activities avlb out west, it amazes me that KL cant run at least YVR or YYC on a daily basis.

To be fair KL only is reducing YEG to two weekly from mid Jan to mid Feb, so only for five weeks. As for what was reported previously, things can change on a dime in this industry as we all know. I am just going off what the GDS systems are showing as of today.

Despite all the winter activities, Western Canada from Europe remains very seasonal. Especially YVR, and I suppose YEG too. The amount of flights from Europe to YVR in the summer versus winter is such a huge variance. Even LH reduces YVR to 5-6 weekly for a few weeks during the really low season. However, in comparison LH reduces most of its North American routes for the same period.

A basic summary of Western Canada services this winter:

YVR
AC to LHR daily 77W (High Density) it does drop to 6 weekly in November, which is two weeks less than last winter.
BA to LHR daily 744 - no change from last winter.
LH to FRA ranges from five weekly to daily 744 LH throughout the winter - no change from last winter.
KL to AMS - five weekly 332s - no change from last winter.
TS to LGW - one weekly 332 for most of the winter but increases to two weekly in mid Feb before ramping up for winter - gain of the one weekly second flight this winter.
AF to CDG - three weekly 772s - new route for the winter

Total 28 - 31 flights per week up from 25 - 27 flights per week last winter.

YYC
AC to LHR - daily 763 but upgauging to daily 788 on 28th January, so an increase in capacity from this date.
BA to LHR - daily 763 but upgauging to daily 788 on 5th December, so an increase in capacity from this date.
AC to FRA - daily 333 - last winter was a mix of 333 and 77L but pretty much same capacity.
KL to AMS - six weekly 332 - no change from last winter.

Total 27 flights per week down from 28 last winter.

Note last winter Air Transat ran a once weekly flight YYC-LGW this has been pulled for the entire winter sched 2015/2016.

YEG
KL to AMS - three weekly 332 - reduced to two weekly mid January to mid February - new route for the winter.
FI to KEF - mostly three weekly 752 - increases to four weekly for a couple of weeks around Christmas and five weekly for one week (the first week of January) then back to three weekly for the rest of the winter - no change from last winter.

Total of 6 weekly flights for the bulk of winter. Fluctuates from 5 - 7 weekly around Christmas. AC to LHR pulled for the winter again.


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