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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Nicko999 Jul 24, 2015 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 7106266)
Ya maybe but should YVR be equal with YYZ? YVR is doing just fine more like where is YUL?

Unlike YYC and YVR, YUL has to share the cargo coming to the Montreal area with Mirabel. Add YUL and YMX together and you get a bigger number.

Factor in the remoteness of Vancouver compared to Toronto and Montreal and you get your answer.

eemy Jul 25, 2015 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999 (Post 7106804)
Unlike YYC and YVR, YUL has to share the cargo coming to the Montreal area with Mirabel. Add YUL and YMX together and you get a bigger number.

Factor in the remoteness of Vancouver compared to Toronto and Montreal and you get your answer.

A lot of GTA cargo goes through Hamilton as well.

MonctonRad Jul 25, 2015 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak (Post 7107155)
A lot of GTA cargo goes through Hamilton as well.

And q12 would complain that Moncton steals business from Halifax too. :)

These are airport vs airport statistics and should be treated as such.

thenoflyzone Jul 25, 2015 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denscity (Post 7106266)
Ya maybe but should YVR be equal with YYZ? YVR is doing just fine more like where is YUL?

Considering YUL is the only airport in there that doesn't get dedicated cargo flights, i'd say YUL's numbers are pretty impressive. Just goes to show the cargo carrying capability of all those passenger B77Ws and A333s we see.

Also, as was said, if you add YMX and YUL, Montreal takes 3rd spot, which is where it belongs, considering our population size and our location (ex. compared to YVR, which acts as a Pacific transit point for cargo carriers, a la ANC, such as Cathay Cargo, Korean Air cargo or China Southern Cargo, which all have continuing service to the States or Mexico).

Now, moving on, Stats Can aircraft movement numbers for 2014 are out.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-209-...1/t002-eng.htm

All the airports out west did good movement wise, including YYJ (+17%), YDT (+7%), YYC (+2.5%), YVR (+3.3%) and YEG (+7.8%). Airports out east, not so much. YYZ was stagnant, YUL saw a slight decline, whereas YQB, YOW and YHU saw moderate declines (- 5 to 8 %), mostly due to VFR numbers in the red.

Passenger numbers were up throughout the country though, indicating more widebody activity and denser aircraft being used out east (rougification) and Westjet's DH8's upping movements out west.

I also updated wikipedia, for those of you interested in a chart format with Y.O.Y increase/decreases. (of note, YEG and YYJ now at #5 and #6, respectively. YDT regains top spot in the country as far as GA airports are concerned, ahead of YHU. YFC movements up 16 % and YKZ down 31%, in fact, down 50% since 2010)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...raft_movements

SkahHigh Jul 25, 2015 4:07 PM

^I never check aircraft movements because they seem to be declining as a trend (bigger aircrafts). PAX stats are what's important.

thenoflyzone Jul 25, 2015 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7107290)
PAX stats are what's important.

Not if you're an air traffic controller ! ;)

casper Jul 25, 2015 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie (Post 7106749)
These are the numbers reported by Stats Canada.

Local airport authorities post their own figures. But YVR seems to be the only Canadian airport that publicly reports cargo figures on a monthly basis.

YVR in 2014 reported 256,000 tonnes of cargo handled. A much larger number than Stats Canada. In 2015 YVR cargo is up another 11.8% YTD to May compared to 2014.

I don't see how I was spinning these figures. My point is the top seven airports appear to have significant cargo operations and then a large gap to the next three, which are relatively very small, to round out the top ten.

I could see the difference between Stats Canada and the Airport Authority being different criteria.

Not certain if they include connecting/transferred cargo. Vancouver also gets daily Cathay and Philippines wide-bodied passenger jets that continue on to JFK or Toronto. Not certain if the transit cargo is included or not.

Pinus Jul 25, 2015 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7107283)
Considering YUL is the only airport in there that doesn't get dedicated cargo flights, i'd say YUL's numbers are pretty impressive. Just goes to show the cargo carrying capability of all those passenger B77Ws and A333s we see.

Also, as was said, if you add YMX and YUL, Montreal takes 3rd spot, which is where it belongs, considering our population size and our location (ex. compared to YVR, which acts as a Pacific transit point for cargo carriers, a la ANC, such as Cathay Cargo, Korean Air cargo or China Southern Cargo, which all have continuing service to the States or Mexico).

Now, moving on, Stats Can aircraft movement numbers for 2014 are out.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-209-...1/t002-eng.htm

All the airports out west did good movement wise, including YYJ (+17%), YDT (+7%), YYC (+2.5%), YVR (+3.3%) and YEG (+7.8%). Airports out east, not so much. YYZ was stagnant, YUL saw a slight decline, whereas YQB, YOW and YHU saw moderate declines (- 5 to 8 %), mostly due to VFR numbers in the red.

Passenger numbers were up throughout the country though, indicating more widebody activity and denser aircraft being used out east (rougification) and Westjet's DH8's upping movements out west.

I also updated wikipedia, for those of you interested in a chart format with Y.O.Y increase/decreases. (of note, YEG and YYJ now at #5 and #6, respectively. YDT regains top spot in the country as far as GA airports are concerned, ahead of YHU. YFC movements up 16 % and YKZ down 31%, in fact, down 50% since 2010)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...raft_movements

You forgot to mention YWG, which saw an increase of 4.1% in passenger traffic for the first quarter of 2015.

Nick Jul 25, 2015 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7107298)
Not if you're an air traffic controller ! ;)

Yep! A plane is a plane. A C172 counts the same as a B748

thenoflyzone Jul 26, 2015 2:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinus (Post 7107503)
You forgot to mention YWG, which saw an increase of 4.1% in passenger traffic for the first quarter of 2015.

I never spoke about 2015. These are 2014 stats, and in 2014, YWG was unimpressive, as it almost always is. -1.2% in terms of aircraft movements compared to 2013.

Pinus Jul 26, 2015 3:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7107680)
I never spoke about 2015. These are 2014 stats, and in 2014, YWG was unimpressive, as it almost always is. -1.2% in terms of aircraft movements compared to 2013.

Perhaps it was "unimpressive" last year, but we are gaining ground this year, compared to "unimpressive" airports like YEG which are showing an overall decline from last year.
Anyways, we are among the bigger and busier airports in the country (7th busiest or so) so I just thought perhaps we should be included in the chat :)

cyeg66 Jul 26, 2015 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinus (Post 7107707)
Perhaps it was "unimpressive" last year, but we are gaining ground this year, compared to "unimpressive" airports like YEG which are showing an overall decline from last year.
Anyways, we are among the bigger and busier airports in the country (7th busiest or so) so I just thought perhaps we should be included in the chat :)

Since the part you bolded referred specifically to aircraft movements, he was correct in leaving out YWG since its movements declined by 1% in 2014. Incidentally, they're down 2.5% in 2015 so far, but clearly this isn't having an impact on pax numbers as you pointed out. :)

cyeg66 Jul 26, 2015 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7107290)
^I never check aircraft movements because they seem to be declining as a trend (bigger aircrafts).

Surtout dans la belle province.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7107290)
PAX stats are what's important.

Gasp! :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7107298)
Not if you're an air traffic controller ! ;)

Amen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 7107537)
Yep! A plane is a plane. A C172 counts the same as a B748

Well, at this point, I could be an ass and discuss that since touch & go's count for 2 movements (used to, maybe that has changed...) and are almost exclusively the domain of VFR flights (and thus hardly any separation is required), they aren't as "sexy" or labour intensive as the airplane movements of large(r), itinerant, IFR traffic recorded at the more major airports. How else do places like Springbank, Boundary, St. Hubert, St. Andrews, etc move sometimes 120+ planes during a peak hour while YYZ struggles to pass 100? (think DVT or VNY in the States) But I'll take the high road and say nothing....:D

thenoflyzone Jul 26, 2015 3:11 PM

Here is a better link for the cargo numbers, as well as the 2014 passenger numbers, recently out as well.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/51-203-...uxsect-eng.htm

cargo by sector is particularly interesting.....

International freight

YYZ - 191,960 t
YVR - 100,142 t
YUL - 61,668 t
YYC - 25,739 t
YHZ - 3,418 t
YOW - 2,080 t
YEG - 1,243 t
YWG - 928 t

basically, as it should be. Airports with more intl flights have more intl cargo.

Transborder freight

YYZ - 91,805 t
YMX - 36,061 t (wasn't expecting #2)
YVR - 33,392 t
YHM - 25,384 t
YYC - 22,699 t
YEG - 8,289 t
YWG - 8,122 t

Domestic freight

YVR - 83,666 t
YYZ - 72,682 t
YHM - 63,134 t
YWG - 52,177 t
YYC - 36,555 t
YMX - 27,686 t

Nick Jul 26, 2015 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyeg66 (Post 7107864)
Well, at this point, I could be an ass and discuss that since touch & go's count for 2 movements (used to, maybe that has changed...) and are almost exclusively the domain of VFR flights (and thus hardly any separation is required), they aren't as "sexy" or labour intensive as the airplane movements of large(r), itinerant, IFR traffic recorded at the more major airports. How else do places like Springbank, Boudary, St. Hubert, St. Andrews, etc move sometimes 120+ planes during a peak hour while YYZ struggles to pass 100? (think DVT or VNY in the States) But I'll take the high road and say nothing....:D

What's a touch and go? I haven't heard of one of those since I left YZF ;)

SkydivePilot Jul 26, 2015 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick (Post 7107537)
Yep! A plane is a plane. A C172 counts the same as a B748

That is true; however, controllers will say: [C-172] "C-GXYZ, pull up and go around, heave traffic on final behind you." LOL.

thenoflyzone Jul 27, 2015 5:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkydivePilot (Post 7108024)
That is true; however, controllers will say: [C-172] "C-GXYZ, pull up and go around, heave traffic on final behind you." LOL.

Or if it's a Westjet 737 leading the way, it will be..." WJA123, pull up and go around, C172 behind you is catching up!"

SkydivePilot Jul 27, 2015 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7108926)
Or if it's a Westjet 737 leading the way, it will be..." WJA123, pull up and go around, C172 behind you is catching up!"

Hahaha, lol!!! :)

DrNest Jul 28, 2015 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7107298)
Not if you're an air traffic controller ! ;)

That's right. I'm not really interested in knowing how many folk are sat on the plane, just stopping the metal from scrapping! :cheers:

flipv Jul 28, 2015 2:30 PM

Great RI article regarding YYZ's retail strategy:

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail...-luxury-retail

Quote:

Anyone who’s ever traveled through Frankfurt, London Heathrow, Amsterdam, Hong Kong, or Dubai knows that an airport doesn’t just have to be utilitarian. Quite the opposite, in fact. Airports can, and should be retail destinations unto themselves. For decades North American airports seemed to have missed that memo. But in recent years, large North American hubs are finally starting to catch up to their European, Asian, and Middle Eastern counterparts. And Toronto Pearson is at the forefront of an airport retail revolution that has made, and will continue to make both Terminals 1 and 3 virtually unrecognizable from 10 years ago.

For those who think airport retail is a frivolous “nice-to-have while you wait impatiently for your flight”, make no mistake, shopping, and in particular luxury shopping, has become such a huge part of the airport experience that it now accounts for as much as 53% of total revenue in the case of Dubai, and 30% in the case of Pearson. The goal is to increase that to 50%.
Quote:

In the past two years The Nuance Group, which operates the duty free concessions at Pearson, has gone from zero to a hundred in terms of the luxury retail offering. The international Hammerhead (Pier F) now boasts boutiques from the likes of Salvatore Ferragamo, the largest airport Burberry boutique in Canada, Bvlgari, Gucci, Tumi, Omega, and North America's only airport Longchamp boutique. Even the domestic pier at Terminal 1 has undergone a radical change and now includes a Victoria’s Secret boutique and Canada’s only standalone Jo Malone London shop. Nuance has gone on record saying that their Pearson operations are by far their best environment in North America. And the numbers don’t lie – in December 2014, one passenger paid $20,000 cash for an Omega watch at the Omega boutique in Terminal 1.
Quote:

As more and more of the world’s wealthy travel, Pearson, almost more-so than any other airport in North America, is perfectly positioned to reap the rewards of those who will inevitably shop more as they transit through the airport. As it stands right now, Pearson is the fourth largest port of entry into North America behind New York JFK, LAX, and Miami. Overall international traffic in North America is second only to JFK, and for the past four years Pearson has been the fastest growing airport on the continent. In 2013, the Mastercard Global Destination Cities 2013 Report ranked Toronto first in North America and thirteenth in the world for the city with the fastest air connectivity growth.
Quote:

Air Canada is concentrating its entire long term growth strategy on Pearson as its global hub, and that strategy is paying off. Already passing the 38 million passenger mark in 2014, Pearson is well on its way to cracking the 40 million passenger milestone for the first time in its history. For some perspective – passenger volumes at Pearson are higher than Canada’s second and third busiest airports combined. Total passenger growth at Pearson is close to 60% higher than Canada’s next three busiest airports (Vancouver, Calgary, and Montreal) combined. International passenger traffic is higher than Canada’s next three busiest airports combined and international traffic growth volumes are over 80% higher than international traffic growth volumes at all three of Canada’s next busiest airports combined. In other words, passenger growth and volumes in Canada are disproportionately in Pearson’s favour. Most of that growth is coming from China, South America, and the Middle East, where wealthy travellers are fuelling a retail revival at airports the world over. Pearson is the first building most people travelling to or through Canada see, and it should represent not only the city of Toronto, but Canada as a whole, in the most positive way.


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