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casper Apr 16, 2021 8:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9251548)
Ontario is set to announce province-to-province travel restrictions.

Prepare for quite a few cancelations.

My guess:
Flair will likely axe most YKF routes until June.
Smaller airports which were suppose to get a bump in service will get those axed too.

We will have to see how this impacts Toronto international flights. If domestic connections become limited we may see a shift to Montreal or out west for certain flights.

hollywoodcory Apr 16, 2021 9:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 9251608)
We will have to see how this impacts Toronto international flights. If domestic connections become limited we may see a shift to Montreal or out west for certain flights.

BC has also be mulling provincial travel restrictions as well. Are they going to setup police checkpoints at every provincial boundary? It sounds good on paper, but difficult to actually enforce.

I'm sure domestic connections on to international flights or vice versa would probably be exempt from restrictions.

JakeLRS Apr 16, 2021 9:36 PM

Ontario Restrictions

And just like that, Westjet has slashed flights from all smaller Ontario Airports.

Westjet is keeping 3 flights/week from Kitchener to Calgary. This is likely to compete with Flair, but I fully anticipate Flair will consolidate or axe most of their flights.

Hamilton is only getting one flight to YYC in May (down from daily).

The schedule returns to near normal in June.

hollywoodcory Apr 16, 2021 9:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9251703)
Ontario Restrictions

And just like that, Westjet has slashed flights from all smaller Ontario Airports.

Westjet is keeping 3 flights/week from Kitchener to Calgary. This is likely to compete with Flair, but I fully anticipate Flair will consolidate or axe most of their flights.

Hamilton is only getting one flight to YYC in May (down from daily).

The schedule returns to near normal in June.

Are these new cuts or from their schedule reduction they loaded last week? I'm not seeing any new cuts (as of yet).

They do usually file schedule updates on Friday nights so I can keep my eyes open.

nname Apr 17, 2021 6:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9251700)
BC has also be mulling provincial travel restrictions as well. Are they going to setup police checkpoints at every provincial boundary? It sounds good on paper, but difficult to actually enforce.

I don't think there's that many roads that cross the provincial boundary? There are mostly highway crossing except for a small area around Dawson Creek...

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9251700)
I'm sure domestic connections on to international flights or vice versa would probably be exempt from restrictions.

Maybe the province will treat all domestic arrival the same as international (ie. 3 days mandatory hotel stay) :shrug:

ghYHZ Apr 17, 2021 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9251700)
Are they going to setup police checkpoints at every provincial boundary? It sounds good on paper, but difficult to actually enforce.

They've been doing that in the Atlantic Provinces for 13 months now and it's worked pretty good. Nova Scotia (pop nearly 1 million) had 5 new cases yesterday. Most of those here enforcing it at checkpoints are Dept of Health officers, Land and Forest officers with police backup if required

We had the 'Atlantic Bubble' last summer with free movement between the four provinces but when new cases increased in the fall it was quickly shut down. It was due to reopen this Monday but now delayed until at least May3.

The Ontario-Manitoba Border would be easier to enforce: there is but a single two-lane highway (the Trans-Canada), a single CN track and a single CP track. That's all that connects eastern and western Canada.

Ottawa-Gatineau (Hull) has 5 bridge crossings but other than that.....there's only 2 major highway crossings between Ontario and Quebec A40/417 and A20/401...... along with several secondary highways that are mainly just west of Montreal and through the Ottawa valley and Temiskaming.

The US border is already closed except essential travel.

hollywoodcory Apr 17, 2021 4:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 9252104)
I don't think there's that many roads that cross the provincial boundary? There are mostly highway crossing except for a small area around Dawson Creek...



Maybe the province will treat all domestic arrival the same as international (ie. 3 days mandatory hotel stay) :shrug:

I think I counted about 8 highway crossings between Alberta and BC and 1 with BC / Yukon. They would also need to set up police checkpoints at the 20+ domestic airports throughout the province, unless they force all that traffic via the larger ones.

As I said, it sounds good on paper but logistically difficult to enforce.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 9252148)
They've been doing that in the Atlantic Provinces for 13 months now and it's worked pretty good. Nova Scotia (pop nearly 1 million) had 5 new cases yesterday. Most of those here enforcing it at checkpoints are Dept of Health officers, Land and Forest officers with police backup if required

We had the 'Atlantic Bubble' last summer with free movement between the four provinces but when new cases increased in the fall it was quickly shut down. It was due to reopen this Monday but now delayed until at least May3.

The Ontario-Manitoba Border would be easier to enforce: there is but a single two-lane highway (the Trans-Canada), a single CN track and a single CP track. That's all that connects eastern and western Canada.

Ottawa-Gatineau (Hull) has 5 bridge crossings but other than that.....there's only 2 major highway crossings between Ontario and Quebec A40/417 and A20/401...... along with several secondary highways that are mainly just west of Montreal and through the Ottawa valley and Temiskaming.

The US border is already closed except essential travel.

The Atlantic provinces have far less provincial boundaries & airports to monitor. BC & Ontario both have dozens of domestic airports on top of the various highway crossings they'd have to watch.

If Ontario is already short on medical staff, do they really have the resources to have law enforcement set up camp at border crossings?

hollywoodcory Apr 17, 2021 4:54 PM

Also in last night's schedule update in the OAG, WS has begun removing international routes for the entire Summer season including:

YYC-AUS
YYC-BOS
YYZ-BCN
YYZ-TPA
YYZ-CCC
YYZ-GCM
YYZ-AUA
YYZ-SXM
YYZ-SJO
YYZ-BDA
YYZ-ANU
YYZ-UVF
YHZ-GLA
YHZ-CDG
YHZ-DUB

Some surprises are YYC-FCO/DUB still surviving although delayed to July. SFO, BNA are still scheduled in June but ATL was pushed into July.

YVR/YHZ-LGW were also removed until July, YYC-LGW still scheduled in June.

ghYHZ Apr 17, 2021 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9252298)
I think I counted about 8 highway crossings between Alberta and BC and 1 with BC / Yukon. They would also need to set up police checkpoints at the 20+ domestic airports throughout the province, unless they force all that traffic via the larger ones.

As I said, it sounds good on paper but logistically difficult to enforce.

The Atlantic provinces have far less provincial boundaries & airports to monitor. BC & Ontario both have dozens of domestic airports on top of the various highway crossings they'd have to watch.

If Ontario is already short on medical staff, do they really have the resources to have law enforcement set up camp at border crossings?

The Atlantic Provinces have 2.5 million pop and Ontario: 14 million so more people to man those crossings. And as I noted it doesn't have to be the OPP. NS is using Conservations Officers and the Department of Health Inspectors. The RCMP is there if req'd.

Right now....Halifax, Moncton, Charlottetown, Deer Lake and St. John's all have flights from outside the Atlantic Provinces. How many airports in Ontario besides Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton have interprovincial flights currently?

Granted.....YYZ has numerous flights but Ottawa has 6 arrivals today and only 2 from outside Ontario (Montreal) Tomorrow there's one from Iqaluit. Hamilton has 3 from the west. So not too many there to be screened.

There's one two-lane highway between ON-MB and besides the 401 and 417...they could probably have all Ottawa-Gatineau traffic use one bridge. There's several other secondary highway crossings between ON and QC but how may people will be travelling now anyway with a stay-at-home order?

thenoflyzone Apr 17, 2021 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9251548)
Ontario is set to announce province-to-province travel restrictions.

Prepare for quite a few cancelations.

My guess:
Flair will likely axe most YKF routes until June.
Smaller airports which were suppose to get a bump in service will get those axed too.

Airports and air travel restrictions are a federal jurisdictional matter no?

Something tells me flights wont be affected much.

Anyways, those people that are travelling nowadays should be doing if for "essential reasons", so should be exempt, even if Ford is allowed to implement domestic travel restrictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 9251703)
Ontario Restrictions

And just like that, Westjet has slashed flights from all smaller Ontario Airports.

I dont think the two are related. The WS cuts were probably in the works a few weeks ago. As for Doug Ford, the word "plan" is not in his vocabulary. Can't believe Ontarians elected that dumbass. He makes Legault look like a genius, and even Legault is a dumbass !

Dominion301 Apr 17, 2021 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 9252408)
The Atlantic Provinces have 2.5 million pop and Ontario: 14 million so more people to man those crossings. And as I noted it doesn't have to be the OPP. NS is using Conservations Officers and the Department of Health Inspectors. The RCMP is there if req'd.

Right now....Halifax, Moncton, Charlottetown, Deer Lake and St. John's all have flights from outside the Atlantic Provinces. How many airports in Ontario besides Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton have interprovincial flights currently?

Granted.....YYZ has numerous flights but Ottawa has 6 arrivals today and only 2 from outside Ontario (Montreal) Tomorrow there's one from Iqaluit. Hamilton has 3 from the west. So not too many there to be screened.

There's one two-lane highway between ON-MB and besides the 401 and 417...they could probably have all Ottawa-Gatineau traffic use one bridge. There's several other secondary highway crossings between ON and QC but how may people will be travelling now anyway with a stay-at-home order?

When the checkpoint was the other way around, all 5 bridges were kept open. I believe even the 3 NCR ferries were also kept open at 1/2 capacity. It shouldn’t be any different this time other than the police being from the Ontario side this time.

LO 044 Apr 18, 2021 3:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 9252468)
As for Doug Ford, the word "plan" is not in his vocabulary. Can't believe Ontarians elected that dumbass. He makes Legault look like a genius, and even Legault is a dumbass !

As much as i loathe politicians all the premiers are between a rock and a hard place. One side wants you to shut everything down and almost everyone loses their jobs. The other side wants everything open because "its not that big of a virus" and then the hospitals can't handle the cases.

I have always said and on here, the federal government should have closed the border as early as possible. Tam kept on saying "oh the virus is here closing the border won't do anything". Yes, it would have slowed the spread. I still can't believe anyone is allowed to fly internationally whether it be to CUN, FRA or PEK. They should have closed the international border fully and then dole out money to AC, WS, TS and so on. That would have been fair.

So now it's every provinces fault. The federal government simply says "oh health care is a provincial jurisdiction". Yeah its not that simple. So it's easy for Mr. Socks to dole out taxpayers money that he doesn't have but push the fault onto the provinces for not doing enough. As is known the federal government can overrule the provinces and shut things down at anytime but that would cost Trudeau HIS voters so let the blood stain the premiers instead. Convenient don't you think?

hollywoodcory Apr 18, 2021 6:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghYHZ (Post 9252408)
The Atlantic Provinces have 2.5 million pop and Ontario: 14 million so more people to man those crossings. And as I noted it doesn't have to be the OPP. NS is using Conservations Officers and the Department of Health Inspectors. The RCMP is there if req'd.

Right now....Halifax, Moncton, Charlottetown, Deer Lake and St. John's all have flights from outside the Atlantic Provinces. How many airports in Ontario besides Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton have interprovincial flights currently?

Granted.....YYZ has numerous flights but Ottawa has 6 arrivals today and only 2 from outside Ontario (Montreal) Tomorrow there's one from Iqaluit. Hamilton has 3 from the west. So not too many there to be screened.

There's one two-lane highway between ON-MB and besides the 401 and 417...they could probably have all Ottawa-Gatineau traffic use one bridge. There's several other secondary highway crossings between ON and QC but how may people will be travelling now anyway with a stay-at-home order?

There's also train and bus stations they'd have to monitor too. All in all, interprovincial travel restrictions would be difficult to enforce in larger provinces like BC or Ontario.

---

As for the international border, Canada/US cannot completely close off the border due to the reliance on trade and they already limited it to essential traffic only. International flights would have happened regardless as planes still need to transport cargo and essential workers (as well as citizens returning home). Not even poster children Australia / New Zealand ever completely shut off international travel.

The hotel quarantine was clearly only ever implemented for brownie points with the public as it was so poorly planned and rushed. Part of me thinks had the various politicians not been caught vacationing over Christmas break we'd still have the status quo 14 day quarantine.

someone123 Apr 18, 2021 6:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9253045)
There's also train and bus stations they'd have to monitor too. All in all, interprovincial travel restrictions would be difficult to enforce in larger provinces like BC or Ontario.

Most of the effect of the quarantine is from the threat of government checking up on people. The Atlantic system does not rely on police with search dogs chasing folks from Quebec through the woods at night. By and large Canadians follow the rules (I will admit that Atlantic Canada is full of particularly neurotic rule followers compared to say Quebec) and this can cut down imported cases by 80%, 95%, or 99%.

BC could easily implement (or could have implemented) a similar system. In fact we have this system with Washington state. There are probably more crossings than NB, sure, but BC has a lot more resources too. The per capita burden is likely similar. Most of BC is tiny mountain valley towns and there are only a couple main highways in that account for most traffic. The Lower Mainland + Vancouver Island have a couple ways in and out and most people in BC live around here.

I find this whole debate amusing because historically Canadians would only admit that Atlantic Canada could be special in a bad way. This idea that it could implement something that BC or Ontario cannot is new. And I am skeptical that the capacity and reality on the ground is really so different in NB. This reaches comical proportions when people argue that Saskatchewan or Manitoba are mind-bogglingly dense or complex to manage. Although I think that was mostly just that one Saskatchewan person.

theman23 Apr 18, 2021 6:19 PM

I think there are like a dozen crossingsinto BC from Alberta, and the majority of those are in the North. The logistics of a travel ban would be pretty simple. BC is effectively an island.

someone123 Apr 18, 2021 6:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theman23 (Post 9253062)
I think there are like a dozen crossingsinto BC from Alberta, and the majority of those are in the North. The logistics of a travel ban would be pretty simple. BC is effectively an island.

We had big outbreaks like that old timers' hockey league that went to AB. They are not likely to bypass the rules or drive their bus an extra 16 hours so they can use some uncontrolled country road by Fort St. John.

Djeffery Apr 18, 2021 9:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9253045)
As for the international border, Canada/US cannot completely close off the border due to the reliance on trade and they already limited it to essential traffic only.

Except the definition of essential seems to be not so strict. There is a media guy named George Strombolopoulos that many people might know that I heard on a podcast a few weeks ago. He had to go to LA for his work with Apple. He hopped in his truck and drove. He got to the border, the US agent says "what are you doing, you know the border is closed". He says "I have to go to LA for work". "Why aren't you flying?" "I need a vehicle while there" "OK, enjoy your drive".

A friend of mine is dating a guy who lives in Michigan, she lives in Ontario. She got turned away at the border when she tried to go visit him last summer. So she drove back to Toronto, went to Pearson, and hopped on a plane. I see lots of Michigan and New York plates driving around London. I bet they aren't all "essential".

Dominion301 Apr 18, 2021 9:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9253045)
There's also train and bus stations they'd have to monitor too. All in all, interprovincial travel restrictions would be difficult to enforce in larger provinces like BC or Ontario.

---

As for the international border, Canada/US cannot completely close off the border due to the reliance on trade and they already limited it to essential traffic only. International flights would have happened regardless as planes still need to transport cargo and essential workers (as well as citizens returning home). Not even poster children Australia / New Zealand ever completely shut off international travel.

The hotel quarantine was clearly only ever implemented for brownie points with the public as it was so poorly planned and rushed. Part of me thinks had the various politicians not been caught vacationing over Christmas break we'd still have the status quo 14 day quarantine.

With Greyhound not operating, there's not much bus travel in Ontario these days. As for the train, not hard to do so at the train station.

ghYHZ Apr 18, 2021 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9253045)
There's also train and bus stations they'd have to monitor too. All in all, interprovincial travel restrictions would be difficult to enforce in larger provinces like BC or Ontario.

There are 2 passenger train routes that cross the ON-QC border and both with a very limited schedule compared to non-covid times. The VIA route into Manitoba with just 2 trains a week will not begin again until at least mid May.

There are currently 3 intercity bus routes crossing the ON-QC border...again with a very limited schedule and I imagine they would go through the check-point at the border. (not like the buses would be very full either!)

And if you're also considering BC: There are 2 passenger trains a week and 2 bus routes.

Take a look at at a map and there's not that many points that would have to be monitored even considering road and air (see my previous post) With the lock-down just not that many traveling.

Truck, rail freight and essential travel would continue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hollywoodcory (Post 9253045)
As for the international border, Canada/US cannot completely close off the border due to the reliance on trade and they already limited it to essential traffic only.

Not talking the International Border here. That's been in effect for over a year now.

ghYHZ Apr 18, 2021 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery (Post 9253151)
Except the definition of essential seems to be not so strict. There is a media guy named George Strombolopoulos that many people might know that I heard on a podcast a few weeks ago. He had to go to LA for his work with Apple. He hopped in his truck and drove. He got to the border, the US agent says "what are you doing, you know the border is closed". He says "I have to go to LA for work". "Why aren't you flying?" "I need a vehicle while there" "OK, enjoy your drive".

Just the comment "I have to go to LA for work"....is going to get more of a response from US CBP (even pre covid) than just..... "OK, enjoy your drive"


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