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-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

TheGreatestX Feb 8, 2020 8:19 PM

Air Canada's China flights are now cancelled until March 28.

Dominion301 Feb 8, 2020 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YYCguys (Post 8821234)
No doubt due to Westjet Link’s service!

Along with AC upgauging to Dash 8s. Even though frequency has gone down, seat capacity is up on AC too.

cyeg66 Feb 9, 2020 2:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8825041)
WS is really pushing the YYC hub with feeder flights, since the actual Calgary market is probably not doing great right now with the economy. They are clearly trying to see how well the domestic destinations feed into the international expansion. The fact that they will have four weekly Rome flights, while YVR and SEA have none and even SFO only has 6 per week, and that isn't even on United, it's 3 each on Alitalia and Norwegian. And there will be very little inbound traffic from Rome to YYC, so it's all leisure. Will be interesting to see if it can succeed

You almost literally bring up YVR on every YYC-related announcement, then bloviate about how WS is grasping at next to nothing, desperately trying to make their YYC hub a go. Insecure much?

zahav Feb 9, 2020 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyeg66 (Post 8825651)
You almost literally bring up YVR on every YYC-related announcement, then bloviate about how WS is grasping at next to nothing, desperately trying to make their YYC hub a go. Insecure much?

Not at all lol, YYC and YVR are in different leagues for international, I have no reason to be insecure. But it is true that WS is relying much more on feeder traffic to sustain it's YYC hub than the city itself can provide. This is by no means just a YYC phenomenon, that's how airlines work, and the reason somewhere like Atlanta is as big as it is. But Atlanta is much more of a major draw than YYC. They are desperately trying to make YYC work, the fares are so low they will be losing money on most of those international flights like Rome and we'll see if it can last. They haven't done a huge international expansion out of YYC really, they cancelled MEX which you'd think would be sustainable with no other competition and yet it wasn't. The London and Paris flights will be fine because those are major airports and already had (or had) some YYC service anyways. Just not sure how much more they can get from the airport, unless of course they do Asia

msmariner Feb 9, 2020 5:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8825668)
Not at all lol, YYC and YVR are in different leagues for international, I have no reason to be insecure. But it is true that WS is relying much more on feeder traffic to sustain it's YYC hub than the city itself can provide. This is by no means just a YYC phenomenon, that's how airlines work, and the reason somewhere like Atlanta is as big as it is. But Atlanta is much more of a major draw than YYC. They are desperately trying to make YYC work, the fares are so low they will be losing money on most of those international flights like Rome and we'll see if it can last. They haven't done a huge international expansion out of YYC really, they cancelled MEX which you'd think would be sustainable with no other competition and yet it wasn't. The London and Paris flights will be fine because those are major airports and already had (or had) some YYC service anyways. Just not sure how much more they can get from the airport, unless of course they do Asia

It’s comical reading your posts. Been doing it for awhile. You look at YVR with rose coloured glasses and YYC (mostly WestJet ) with way too much pessimism.
1. You say YYC rely’s on too much feeder to keep their flights full. Have you looked at YVR? You think they can fill those endless Asia flights with just O/D out of the lower mainland? Don’t think so. They get feed from across Canada and N/A to fill those planes.
2. You say the prices are so low on the Rome flights. That’s nothing new. They must be doing ok to Europe since they increased to 6/weekly flights to Paris this year. Have you looked at the prices on the flights to Asia at YVR? They are trash. There is a reason WS didn’t enter that market. Zero money to be made.

I get you like to pump your home town airport. Give credit where it’s due. WS started with nothing and grown tremendously. YYC is its home and they’ve been smart to try and grow a mega hub there. The craziest thing about YYC and WS is how much it’s grown every year and that’s with the the economy crashing on the prairies. Didn’t hardly any growth in YVR in 2019 with a “booming” economy.
Anyways that’s just my opinion. Guess we’re all entitled

Alexcaban Feb 9, 2020 9:15 AM

Air Canada seems to have removed AC015/16 YYZ-HKG from the schedule from March 1st-28th,
AC007/008 from YVR seems to operate normal.

zahav Feb 9, 2020 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 8825731)
It’s comical reading your posts. Been doing it for awhile. You look at YVR with rose coloured glasses and YYC (mostly WestJet ) with way too much pessimism.
1. You say YYC rely’s on too much feeder to keep their flights full. Have you looked at YVR? You think they can fill those endless Asia flights with just O/D out of the lower mainland? Don’t think so. They get feed from across Canada and N/A to fill those planes.
2. You say the prices are so low on the Rome flights. That’s nothing new. They must be doing ok to Europe since they increased to 6/weekly flights to Paris this year. Have you looked at the prices on the flights to Asia at YVR? They are trash. There is a reason WS didn’t enter that market. Zero money to be made.

I get you like to pump your home town airport. Give credit where it’s due. WS started with nothing and grown tremendously. YYC is its home and they’ve been smart to try and grow a mega hub there. The craziest thing about YYC and WS is how much it’s grown every year and that’s with the the economy crashing on the prairies. Didn’t hardly any growth in YVR in 2019 with a “booming” economy.
Anyways that’s just my opinion. Guess we’re all entitled

My comments were not a dis to Calgary, just pointing out that WS is heavily relying on connecting traffic for it's international expansion moreso than the local market. I also said this isn't unique to Calgary, I'm not seeing YVR through rose coloured glasses at all, I know it too relies a lot on connections, but I was specifically talking about the new WS international flights. I would wager that AC's daily flights to destinations like Beijing, Tokyo, London, and Hong Kong have a lot more O&D than WS's flights to Dublin, Paris, and Rome from YYC. Specifically flights like Rome, there is no way there is more O&D from YYC to Rome than from other major cities that don't have service, that's my point. It's beneficial for YYC that it has WS and is doing this, I wasn't critisizing YYC just stating it will be interesting to see if they can sustain these flights, and how much the feeder traffic can prop it up.

msmariner Feb 9, 2020 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zahav (Post 8826076)
My comments were not a dis to Calgary, just pointing out that WS is heavily relying on connecting traffic for it's international expansion moreso than the local market. I also said this isn't unique to Calgary, I'm not seeing YVR through rose coloured glasses at all, I know it too relies a lot on connections, but I was specifically talking about the new WS international flights. I would wager that AC's daily flights to destinations like Beijing, Tokyo, London, and Hong Kong have a lot more O&D than WS's flights to Dublin, Paris, and Rome from YYC. Specifically flights like Rome, there is no way there is more O&D from YYC to Rome than from other major cities that don't have service, that's my point. It's beneficial for YYC that it has WS and is doing this, I wasn't critisizing YYC just stating it will be interesting to see if they can sustain these flights, and how much the feeder traffic can prop it up.

I agree with the above. The YYC-Rome flight is probably designed for mostly connection passengers. There is no competition in the west for the flight. Unless you want to go through the east or the US then YYC will be it. Smart of WS to start the flight

casper Feb 10, 2020 7:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 8826097)
I agree with the above. The YYC-Rome flight is probably designed for mostly connection passengers. There is no competition in the west for the flight. Unless you want to go through the east or the US then YYC will be it. Smart of WS to start the flight

Rome is also a cruise ship port city. WS should be able to make deals with some of the cruise ship companies to provide connections from variouse destinations in Western Canada and the US.

Lets face it WestJet strength has been the tourist market. They can probably leverage that and Rome is a good example of that. Milan would have been the business destination, Rome is a very tourist heavy destination.

Over time they will build out more corporate accounts.

thenoflyzone Feb 10, 2020 7:34 AM

a few things to consider:

YYZ/YVR/YUL O&D percentage: ranges from 70-80% roughly

WS YYC O&D percentage: less than 50%

msmariner Feb 10, 2020 6:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8826337)
a few things to consider:

YYZ/YVR/YUL O&D percentage: ranges from 70-80% roughly

WS YYC O&D percentage: less than 50%

Your point? Cities that are 5/2/3 x size of YYC. Though they only get 3/1.5/1.1 x passengers. Guess YYC and WS are doing a great job of attracting passengers😉

Dominion301 Feb 10, 2020 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeLRS (Post 8821377)
For those of you who fly between the big Canadian cities frequently (exc. the maritimes). Flair is offering a travel pass for $499 (blackout dates) or $699 (no blackout dates + baggage) for 3 months.

https://flyflair.com/travel-info/go-travel-pass/

I’m curious to see all your opinions. That is the price of 2 round trip tickets from YYZ-YVR if you book with a few weeks notice.

I'd call it more the big Western Canadian cities plus YYZ. This pass is pretty useless for people living in big cities #2 & #5.

craneSpotter Feb 10, 2020 8:38 PM

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet ... here it is anyway:

Air Canada expands A220 network in S20
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...etwork-in-s20/

Montreal – Halifax eff 01MAY20 1 daily (11 weekly from 01OCT20)
Montreal – Nassau 02MAY20 – 24OCT20 1 weekly
Montreal – Vancouver eff 01JUN20 1 daily (2 daily from 01OCT20; one-time A220 from Montreal scheduled on 22FEB20)
Toronto – Halifax eff 01MAY20 1 daily
Toronto – Vancouver 15JUN20 – 30JUN20 1 daily (one-time A220 from Vancouver scheduled on 24FEB20)


Air Canada should have 18 A220-300s in service by the end of this year. Some will replace E190s and others will be used for route expansions.

Note - AC A220-300s have both standard USB and USB-C ports at each seat. Economy seats are 19" wide - which is usually found in upgraded seats.

thenoflyzone Feb 11, 2020 1:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 8826683)
Your point? Cities that are 5/2/3 x size of YYC. Though they only get 3/1.5/1.1 x passengers. Guess YYC and WS are doing a great job of attracting passengers😉

Kind of easy to attract passengers when your only means to get the f out of dodge is to fly.

Plenty of alternatives at YYZ/YVR/YUL.

msmariner Feb 11, 2020 5:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8827294)
Kind of easy to attract passengers when your only means to get the f out of dodge is to fly.

Plenty of alternatives at YYZ/YVR/YUL.

Good response. Very educated 🙄

casper Feb 11, 2020 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 8827294)
Kind of easy to attract passengers when your only means to get the f out of dodge is to fly.

Plenty of alternatives at YYZ/YVR/YUL.

That fails to take into account local culture. From Calgary the nearest business centers, Edmonton, Saskatoon and Regina are an "easy drive" by Alberta/Saskatchewan standards. In Ontario or Montreal you are more likely to fly instead. Similar for tourist destinations Banff, Jasper, Canmore etc.

SaskScraper Feb 11, 2020 4:36 PM

Not only culture but also Albertans, Sask & Manitobans drive interprovincially a lot more, also Western Canadians tend to fly a lot more than people from Quebec in general, Quebecers tend to be more insular/travel within confines of their province mostly it seems judging from pax numbers at their airports.

I for one am excited about WS non-stop from YYC to Fiumicino-Leonardo da Vinci, since a family member just moved back to Rome, plus on my husband side of the family just had a newborn addition to the family last Fall.
Initially it looked like we'd have to fly through Minneapolis or have to have an extra stop in Frankfurt somewhere along the way but now we can go straight through from Calgary to Rome with no stops in other countries first :tup:

Acajack Feb 11, 2020 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8827834)
Not only culture but also Albertans, Sask & Manitobans drive interprovincially a lot more, also Western Canadians tend to fly a lot more than people from Quebec in general, Quebecers tend to be more insular/travel within confines of their province mostly it seems judging from pax numbers at their airports.
:

LOL! Just because we don't want to pay 800 bucks to fly to Saskatoon or Fort Mac doesn't make us insular!

Montreal-Paris is the busiest trans-Atlantic route out of Canada, the 4th busiest route between North America and Europe, and the 8th busiest route between Europe and any other city in the world.

thenoflyzone Feb 11, 2020 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmariner (Post 8827497)
Good response. Very educated ������

It’s a 1000% more educated than comparing airport pax to city population.

You welcome btw.

MacLac Feb 11, 2020 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper (Post 8827834)
Not only culture but also Albertans, Sask & Manitobans drive interprovincially a lot more, also Western Canadians tend to fly a lot more than people from Quebec in general, Quebecers tend to be more insular/travel within confines of their province mostly it seems judging from pax numbers at their airports.

I for one am excited about WS non-stop from YYC to Fiumicino-Leonardo da Vinci, since a family member just moved back to Rome, plus on my husband side of the family just had a newborn addition to the family last Fall.
Initially it looked like we'd have to fly through Minneapolis or have to have an extra stop in Frankfurt somewhere along the way but now we can go straight through from Calgary to Rome with no stops in other countries first :tup:

I guess 1 more than ZERO is higher then ZERO then.....


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