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DrNest Jul 12, 2016 7:23 PM

I found those luggage drop off machines simple to use, but didn't like that when I spoke to the US immigration officer he showed me a picture of a suitcase, I couldn't see any identifying marks or my luggage tag, but I still had to swear absolutely it was my case. He wouldn't accept, "it looks like it" as an answer.

TorontoDrew Jul 12, 2016 8:06 PM

Well I used it 2 weeks ago and you just have to make sure your tag lays flt on the conveyor belt. They are simple to use but not everybody is as tech savoy as most of us probably are.

hipster duck Jul 12, 2016 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riise (Post 7500905)
I can understand filling out a landing card for countries where I'm not a citizen but to get into my own country? Silly.


In most other countries, the border services agency is mostly trying to keep out would-be illegal migrants (exceeding your visa period), potential terror suspects or illegal substances, money transfers and weapons.

In Canada, a disproportionate share of CBSA's energy seems to be directed toward making sure that the government doesn't lose more tax revenue from foreign purchases made by its own citizens. The landing card does this. In a way I find this to be a reminder that we live in an expensive country with miserly Scottish roots ;)

Just look at what percentage of the Canadian landing card's space is devoted to listing out your alcohol, tobacco and goods exemptions and inquiring into the value of the goods you brought in. The US, UK, Hong Kong and Taiwan landing cards do not have any of this.

kwoldtimer Jul 12, 2016 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 7501484)
In most other countries, the border services agency is mostly trying to keep out would-be illegal migrants (exceeding your visa period), potential terror suspects or illegal substances, money transfers and weapons.

In Canada, a disproportionate share of CBSA's energy seems to be directed toward making sure that the government doesn't lose more tax revenue from foreign purchases made by its own citizens. The landing card does this. In a way I find this to be a reminder that we live in an expensive country with miserly Scottish roots ;)

Just look at what percentage of the Canadian landing card's space is devoted to listing out your alcohol, tobacco and goods exemptions and inquiring into the value of the goods you brought in. The US, UK, Hong Kong and Taiwan landing cards do not have any of this.

I'm sure you meant to say "thrifty". :D

1overcosc Jul 13, 2016 12:25 AM

The last time I entered Canada (returning from Israel in February) the machine wouldn't take my landing card.. just kept spitting back out again. I was very tired and dizzy as I was just on a 13 hour overnight flight that had heavy turbulence for basically half the trip, so my patience was running very thin.. I ended up kicking the machine, ripping up my card and shouting at the border guard. I'm very lucky I wasn't arrested.. but turns out they were sympathetic and just let me leave with no ado. I did apologize once I calmed down though.. not exactly a proud moment for me :(

casper Jul 13, 2016 4:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew (Post 7501092)
The ones at YVR at least in the domestic section don't look like anything more then a drop off for you luggage. The new ones at YYZ need to scan your boarding pass and the tag on your suitcase needs to lay flat so the machine can scan it as it goes through. You also need to answer a few questions when prompted by the monitor. Not exactly a great system at such a busy airport.

We are talking about different machines. YVR invented those machines that scan customs declaration cards for Canada Customs and US Customs.

flipv Jul 13, 2016 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7501605)
The last time I entered Canada (returning from Israel in February) the machine wouldn't take my landing card.. just kept spitting back out again. I was very tired and dizzy as I was just on a 13 hour overnight flight that had heavy turbulence for basically half the trip, so my patience was running very thin.. I ended up kicking the machine, ripping up my card and shouting at the border guard. I'm very lucky I wasn't arrested.. but turns out they were sympathetic and just let me leave with no ado. I did apologize once I calmed down though.. not exactly a proud moment for me :(

Lord I am never testier than after a long long flight. The border guards usually add to said frustration!

rbt Jul 13, 2016 1:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7501846)
We are talking about different machines. YVR invented those machines that scan customs declaration cards for Canada Customs and US Customs.

Well they fucked up. Filling out a paper form to feed the machine for something that could be managed with a few taps on the screen and data collected from the airline (see USA customs machines) was silly.

I'm getting tired of needing to pack a pen.

Riise Jul 13, 2016 2:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hipster duck (Post 7501484)
Just look at what percentage of the Canadian landing card's space is devoted to listing out your alcohol, tobacco and goods exemptions and inquiring into the value of the goods you brought in. The US, UK, Hong Kong and Taiwan landing cards do not have any of this.

Yup, that's definitely something I've noticed between Canadian and UK landing cards. I guess it does make it easier for travelers as CBSA is focusing on tariffs so they may as well be efficient and effective.

thenoflyzone Jul 13, 2016 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster (Post 7501022)

That and flying to YYZ/YUL from the west to go to Europe makes absolutely no sense as it's completely out of the way, which is why you see a decent amount of Europe seats out of YVR & YYC (just under 30,000 seats per week in the summer for YVR and 12,000 for YYC).

Aboslutely no sense ? Completely out of the way? Kind of exaggerating there, no?

Ex. YYC-YUL-CDG is only 15.8% longer (distance wise) than YYC-CDG. Connecting in SEA, YVR, DEN, ORD or DFW is more out of the way, ranging from 17% to 41%. (DEN doesn't even have a CDG non stop, btw, but i added it in there just to prove my point)

I wouldn't call that nonsensical, especially when thousands (probably tens of thousands) connect in YYZ/YUL from the west coast every year to fly to Europe.

I'll tell you what is nonsensical, flying YUL-IST-VCE. You're literally flying over your destination and then backtracking, increasing your total journey by 45%. And yet people still do it just to save a few bucks. I'm sure Calgarians have connected in DFW for Europe just to save a few bucks also, which is almost as long.

ghYHZ Jul 13, 2016 4:01 PM

I certainly appreciate having transatlantic service from the east coast and not having to backhaul through Toronto or Montreal.

For example….. I just selected a YYT-YYZ flight on Flightaware and it took 2 hr 58 min. Last evening’s WestJet flight to Dublin only took 3 hr 48 min to cross the pond.

If I had to go to YYZ first……I’d still be in Toronto after 3 hr and 48 min…then add another 2 1\2 hrs and I’d just be passing over YYT again!

And the business must be there with 3 daily flights from St. John’s to DUB, LHR and LGW this summer.

Halifax does even better with a daily ‘767 to Heathrow, daily ‘737 to GLA and several times a week on Condor to Frankfort and Munich, Icelandair to KEF and ASL Airlines to Dublin and Paris.

LeftCoaster Jul 13, 2016 5:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7502124)
Aboslutely no sense ? Completely out of the way? Kind of exaggerating there, no?

Ex. YYC-YUL-CDG is only 15.8% longer (distance wise) than YYC-CDG. Connecting in SEA, YVR, DEN, ORD or DFW is more out of the way, ranging from 17% to 41%. (DEN doesn't even have a CDG non stop, btw, but i added it in there just to prove my point)

I wouldn't call that nonsensical, especially when thousands (probably tens of thousands) connect in YYZ/YUL from the west coast every year to fly to Europe.

I'll tell you what is nonsensical, flying YUL-IST-VCE. You're literally flying over your destination and then backtracking, increasing your total journey by 45%. And yet people still do it just to save a few bucks. I'm sure Calgarians have connected in DFW for Europe just to save a few bucks also, which is almost as long.

Well of course tens of thousands connect in YYZ & YUL, because that's how hubs work and that's where AC funnels its PAX. Connecting from YUL to PEK through YVR is just as out of the way but AC still expects a lot of its PAX to do it.

And yes I do consider a 20% increase in distance traveled to be completely out of the way. Why would anyone want to fly 5 hours from YVR to YUL only to then get on a 7.5 hour flight when they could just take a 10 hour flight in the first place. It works in the inverse too, why would someone from the east coast get on a 5 hour flight to then fly to PEK on a routing that is only marginally shorter.

Canada is too geographically large to assume that the east side of the country should be the hub to the eastern destinations and the west side of the country to the western when in fact it's significantly faster over the poles for both.

DrNest Jul 13, 2016 6:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7502124)
I'll tell you what is nonsensical, flying YUL-IST-VCE. You're literally flying over your destination and then backtracking, increasing your total journey by 45%. And yet people still do it just to save a few bucks. I'm sure Calgarians have connected in DFW for Europe just to save a few bucks also, which is almost as long.

I fly back to England several times a year. Leaving from Pearson. I will nearly always fly via Amsterdam and connect to a regional airport in England rather than a direct flight to Heathrow as I get to my destination quicker. If it saves me money I'll happily connect via KDTW or KMSP as well, adding an extra leg and time to my journey. Although I am one of those folks that love flying and happily will add connections to my trip. I've certainly not found it nonsensical to overfly my destination to then backtrack on another flight to get there.

thenoflyzone Jul 13, 2016 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 7502400)
I fly back to England several times a year. Leaving from Pearson. I will nearly always fly via Amsterdam and connect to a regional airport in England rather than a direct flight to Heathrow as I get to my destination quicker. If it saves me money I'll happily connect via KDTW or KMSP as well, adding an extra leg and time to my journey. Although I am one of those folks that love flying and happily will add connections to my trip. I've certainly not found it nonsensical to overfly my destination to then backtrack on another flight to get there.

Like i said, your situation to a secondary English airport via AMS is only a 15% increase in total distance traveled. Not a bid deal. I've done worse myself.

YUL-MIA-MCO, instead of YUL-MCO.

Point is, people do it, and it's not nonsensical as long as the distance involved isn't too great. When you're going a few thousand miles out of your way, only to have to fly back the way you came from, then that in my book is utter nonsense, unless of course you have no choice. (such as people from the Maritimes, often cases)

DrNest Jul 13, 2016 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone (Post 7502538)
Point is, people do it, and it's not nonsensical as long as the distance involved isn't too great. When you're going a few thousand miles out of your way, only to have to fly back the way you came from, then that in my book is utter nonsense, unless of course you have no choice. (such as people from the Maritimes, often cases)

I did once fly England to Pearson via LAX. But that was because I was given a free flight in First Class and wanted to make the most of the flight. I get the point you're making though :cheers:

Klazu Jul 14, 2016 1:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by casper (Post 7500679)
Those machines were invented by YVR. One of the YVR airport subsidiaries is actually the tech company that sold them into most of the Canadian and US airports that have the technology. They are great.

I agree. They are great and YVR has managed to sell them to the biggest North American airports.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/business/self-s...order-products

http://www.yvr.ca/-/media/yvr/images...E7F82254A2DD3E

nname Jul 14, 2016 7:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7501605)
The last time I entered Canada (returning from Israel in February) the machine wouldn't take my landing card.. just kept spitting back out again. I was very tired and dizzy as I was just on a 13 hour overnight flight that had heavy turbulence for basically half the trip, so my patience was running very thin.. I ended up kicking the machine, ripping up my card and shouting at the border guard. I'm very lucky I wasn't arrested.. but turns out they were sympathetic and just let me leave with no ado. I did apologize once I calmed down though.. not exactly a proud moment for me :(

Most likely you missed one of the field, or your signature is too small.

After a 10+ hours flight, I rather have that machine than the 2hr lineup at YVR before...

thenoflyzone Jul 14, 2016 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klazu (Post 7502903)
I agree. They are great and YVR has managed to sell them to the biggest North American airports.

http://www.yvr.ca/en/business/self-s...order-products

Indeed. As the map shows, YUL has it at both the Canada customs and US customs. I've used both, and they are a breeze to use. Much better than waiting in the 1 hr+ lineup at 5 pm which is very common, what with all the international arrivals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nname (Post 7503063)
I rather have that machine than the 2hr lineup at YVR before...

:yeahthat:

1overcosc Jul 14, 2016 1:01 PM

There's got to be a better way.. how about using modern scanning and imaging tech to just autoscan everyone's things when they get off the plane? That way we don't need ot use landing cards to vet everyone. Shouldn't be too hard in 2016.

Some people will scream about privacy but how about making it opt-in? At some point, say when you book your flight or print your boarding pass, you can choose "I consent to have my stuff examined for a faster re-entry." or some such.

When I was flying into and out of Israel one of the things I was blown away by was how efficient and effective their customs and security processes were.

There were no landing cards on entry to Israel. Just an interview with a customs agent and that's it. There were dozens of wickets so the lines were short even though I was landing at a busy time.

Going out... that was actually amazing to watch. When you first enter the airport, even before the check in area, you meet with a security agent who asks you a series of basic questions about what you were doing in Israel.. as well as a bunch of small talk questions as well, to gauge your level of anxiety (the more anxious you are being interviewed, the higher the chance you're doing something bad like terrorism or smuggling). They have high tech computer-controlled cameras that read the micro-expressions on your face the whole time they're dong this, too, so people can't fake their facial expressions.

Based on this initial screen, they then assess you with a "threat level" from 1 to 9, 1 being least suspicious and 9 being most suspicious. They put a sticker on your passport identifying your threat level, and also scan your passport and put your threat level into the system, so if you try to cheat by ripping off your sticker and forging a new one, you'll get caught. Then, after you check in and drop off your baggage, they have a separate security line for each threat level and you go to the one matching yours. The higher the threat level, the more stuff they do in the security line.

They also don't make you take off your shoes or your belt when going through the metal detector.

Basically, their system focuses on what's most efficient or effective, ignoring stupid knee-jerk rules brought about in response to specific incidents (like the whole taking off your shoes thing), and not caring about issues of political correctness that result in 100 year old ladies having to go through the same screening as 25 year old men.

As a side note: yes, they do demographic profiling, but they care far more about age and sex than race. Being a young male will automatically get you a higher threat level even if you're white and/or western. As a 23 year old white Canadian man, travelling unaccompanied who did entirely independent travel (no tours), I was given a threat rating of 6.

yyzer Jul 14, 2016 1:11 PM

Looks like Hainan Airlines will be bringing their 789 to YYZ on certain days, starting July 26.....

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...ate-july-2016/


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