SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   Canada (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=18)
-   -   Canadian Airport Thread (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153826)

Nicko999 Feb 7, 2016 5:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader (Post 7327072)
Decent post by you. Historically, in 1967, Expo, Montréal was Canadas largest and premier city and the gateway to Europe. By fiat, foreign carriers only had access to Montréal. Montréal was killed by the two airport system in 1974, international Mirabel, and domestic, Dorval.

Those were heady years. Supersonic travel, Concorde and SST, mega airports, and dreams.
The first oil shoku killed supersonics and domestic to international connections from Dorval to Mirabel killed Montréal. Foreign carriers demanded access to Toronto and got it. One airport feed.
I wonder if Mirabel had never been built would Montréal reign supreme? We will never know.

In my opinion, Montreal would have been better off if no airport existed in Dorval. Mirabel would still exist today and would be thriving. Right now, with the city' growth, some people in the Greater Montreal area live closer to Mirabel than to Dorval. Of course we all like YUL proximity to downtown (and it was obvious why airlines and passengers preferred that airport) but it is limited in its growth. Who knows, maybe in 10-15 years Montreal would need a 2nd airport. Mirabel potential growth was unlimited.

The result (of YUL not existing) would be Mirabel being at least the 2nd busiest airport in the country and Dorval having plenty of land for development.

thenoflyzone Feb 7, 2016 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader (Post 7327072)
Decent post by you. Historically, in 1967, Expo, Montréal was Canadas largest and premier city and the gateway to Europe. By fiat, foreign carriers only had access to Montréal. Montréal was killed by the two airport system in 1974, international Mirabel, and domestic, Dorval.

Those were heady years. Supersonic travel, Concorde and SST, mega airports, and dreams.
The first oil shoku killed supersonics and domestic to international connections from Dorval to Mirabel killed Montréal. Foreign carriers demanded access to Toronto and got it. One airport feed.
I wonder if Mirabel had never been built would Montréal reign supreme? We will never know.

Mirabel did have an affect, yes, along with the first referendum. When the first referendum happened in 1980, Montreal handed Toronto #1 city status on a silver platter. Until then, the two cities populations were almost equal, around 3 million metro each. After 1980, Toronto's population skyrocketed (4 million by 1990), and Montreal's started to stagnate (still at 3 million in 1990). Businesses and corporations left Quebec and moved to Toronto. The rest is history.

Closing Dorval and moving everything to Mirabel would have been better, but Montreal's fate was sealed the minute Quebecers felt the need to separate.

1overcosc Feb 7, 2016 7:35 PM

Montreal gave up its status as Canada's #1 city in order to become a francophone city, essentially. It's a trade off I'm sure most Montrealers are good with.

flipv Feb 7, 2016 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7327544)
Montreal gave up its status as Canada's #1 city in order to become a francophone city, essentially. It's a trade off I'm sure most Montrealers are good with.

Toronto was always going to be #1, the writings on the wall were there since the turn of the 20th century. It was growing faster, building bigger buildings, building a subway before anyone else, etc. The separatists managed to accelerate it by about a generation, but it was bound to happen - francophones or not.

thenoflyzone Feb 7, 2016 8:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipv (Post 7327552)
building a subway before anyone else, etc.

Aha...!

Speaking of subways. That's one mode of transportation where Montreal leads the nation. Montreal metro is the busiest in the country (daily & annual ridership) and the largest (in terms of length of the network).

I guess That's what happens with a poor province...everyone uses public transportation!

Innsertnamehere Feb 7, 2016 8:50 PM

Toronto's subway will be longer by next year, as will Vancouvers.

Montreal may win on the ridership front for a while longer though, Montreal has 25% on Toronto (1.25 million riders daily vs. 1 million daily)

SkahHigh Feb 7, 2016 9:47 PM

Montreal's network will grow 5.2km with the Blue line extension. Anyway, this belongs in another thread.

G.S MTL Feb 7, 2016 10:31 PM

Isn't the blue line extension 7km long? Operational
By 2020? And aren't they also studying the extension of the yellow line?

GernB Feb 7, 2016 11:46 PM

Oversimplistic IMO to put too much blame on OPEC for Mirabel's failure. The lack of cooperation between federal and provincial governments was a much larger factor. The planned connecting autoroute from Dorval and high speed rail link were never built, and the proposed industrial park never came to fruition. A lot of things would have had to go right, but there's little reason to think that had both (federal and provincial) parties acted openly and honourably rather than in in petty self-interest and sheer pig-headedness, Mirabel would not have largely fulfilled its early promise.

Alexcaban Feb 8, 2016 12:29 AM

I still find it amazing that with the economic downturn in Alberta, YYC still managed to pull a 1.4% increase.

Even with Hainan Airlines coming this year, the worst is still to come. WestJet has announced cut backs, route cancellations and Air Canada will not be adding anything for a while.

Sorry YYC fans, I don't want to sound mean but YUL will take its 3rd place back and will keep it for years to come, now that Air Canada wants to build it up a a strong eastern hub.

flipv Feb 9, 2016 2:59 PM

Digging deeper into YYZ's numbers, even though PAX increased by 6.4%, terminal movements have only increased 2.5%. This means bigger and fuller planes, more passengers. Pearson's facilities aren't really geared towards this, and the crowded conditions in the International Hammerhead highlight this.

Time to rethink some major pieces of the airport. Waiting facilities need to be bigger, retail needs to be bigger, but there is only finite room within the terminal envelope. They'll have to get creative, and I'm sure the next pier will look nothing like what was planned (formerly more geared towards smaller jets).

SkahHigh Feb 9, 2016 3:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipv (Post 7329241)
Digging deeper into YYZ's numbers, even though PAX increased by 6.4%, terminal movements have only increased 2.5%. This means bigger and fuller planes, more passengers. Pearson's facilities aren't really geared towards this, and the crowded conditions in the International Hammerhead highlight this.

Time to rethink some major pieces of the airport. Waiting facilities need to be bigger, retail needs to be bigger, but there is only finite room within the terminal envelope. They'll have to get creative, and I'm sure the next pier will look nothing like what was planned (formerly more geared towards smaller jets).

I think YYZ's waiting areas are fine. The only thing I have trouble with is the overpricing at the airport. Try getting stuck at YYZ without having to pay $15 for food.

flipv Feb 9, 2016 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkahHigh (Post 7329247)
I think YYZ's waiting areas are fine. The only thing I have trouble with is the overpricing at the airport. Try getting stuck at YYZ without having to pay $15 for food.

Late afternoon/evenings is hellish at T1 - European and Asian departures crowd the hell out of the hammerhead. Problem is all the new retail and dining options have taken space away from gate seating.

Then there's T3 - God help them.

I haven't bought food at YYZ in years.. I have a Priority Pass membership so I spend my time in the lounges. ;)

DrNest Feb 9, 2016 5:35 PM

There are plans to extend Terminal One at Pearson and build a new pier where the Jazz and Georgian Dash-8s and Beech1900s park. That would obvious free up/create much more space for passengers. However, when ground will break and construction actually begin I have no idea. The last map I saw of this plan had it built by 2010... I'm told from those on a bigger pay grade than me that these plans are still being considered and are more likely a case of when rather than if.

flipv Feb 9, 2016 5:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrNest (Post 7329452)
There are plans to extend Terminal One at Pearson and build a new pier where the Jazz and Georgian Dash-8s and Beech1900s park. That would obvious free up/create much more space for passengers. However, when ground will break and construction actually begin I have no idea. The last map I saw of this plan had it built by 2010... I'm told from those on a bigger pay grade than me that these plans are still being considered and are more likely a case of when rather than if.

My understanding is the plan for Pier G was pushed back after the recession, but now they're scrambling to do something before it really begins to impact passenger comfort.

There was a recent study done (1-2 years back or so) where the vendor assigned pax % growth scenarios. The high estimate was about 2.8% growth to 2020 annualized, and we're already at 6.4% this year, and 6.8% last year. They need a new study methinks...

1overcosc Feb 9, 2016 6:08 PM

If they ever get around to building it Pickering Airport will help massively.

Innsertnamehere Feb 9, 2016 7:19 PM

There is a lot of growth at Pearson available before Pickering is needed, especially if the trend of pax numbers increasing faster than aircraft movements continues.

Pickering is only needed if all the expansion plans at Pearson are built fully, and Pearson can probably double their capacity before running out of space.

speedog Feb 9, 2016 7:49 PM

Well it was too good to last, YYC's 30 minutes of free parking in the short term parkade disappeared today - it's now a minimum $3 fee now. Guess that just leaves the cell phone lot that's free now and you can't leave a vehicle unattended there.

DrNest Feb 10, 2016 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc (Post 7329506)
If they ever get around to building it Pickering Airport will help massively.

The 6th and 7th runways will get built at Pearson before Pickering is even considered.

Tropics Feb 10, 2016 2:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedog (Post 7329686)
Well it was too good to last, YYC's 30 minutes of free parking in the short term parkade disappeared today - it's now a minimum $3 fee now. Guess that just leaves the cell phone lot that's free now and you can't leave a vehicle unattended there.

That sucks bigtime. Now they are going to get slammed at the drive through and require twice as many people running around telling people they cannot stop their car for more then 3 seconds while they find their passenger or their passenger sees their ride.

Dumb move by YYC. This is going to be a headache for everyone involved, passengers and the airport both.


All times are GMT. The time now is 8:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.