SkyscraperPage Forum

SkyscraperPage Forum (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/index.php)
-   City Compilations (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=87)
-   -   SAN DIEGO | Boom Rundown, Vol. 2 (https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126473)

Fusey Sep 4, 2008 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina_Guy (Post 3777644)
San Diego is not there and I don't see a path either.

As mentioned earlier, downtown needs a lot more retail. When I lived in SD I only went downtown to drink/dine or catch a Padres game. I would have lived downtown had there been at least a Target I could walk to.

staplesla Sep 4, 2008 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 3777617)
You missed the point. But maybe it is my fault.

The City needs to do something at 8th and Harbor if it wants to re-open 8th Avenue. The choices involve doing something iconic, maybe a tunnel, or something cheap that would likely not be iconic and likley be very ugly.

Would you rather have something like the pedestrian overpass currently over I-5 near City College? Or like the one over I-5 near Mission Hills and Palm Street?

I think it's an easy decision; spend the money on a nice iconic bidge. It's also in a very visible location.

Assuming limited financial resources.... absolutely I would choose to put it toward a bridge than a homeless park.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear as well. I'm all for the bridge and I think the design looks great. Just after having lived in NYC, Germany, Nashville, and Dallas I can say that downtown San Diego offers the least when it comes to overall "quality of life." I think there are smaller projects that cost less, that in the long run will make a greater impact on downtown as a whole.

malsponger Sep 4, 2008 11:57 PM

How about just digging a trench and capping it for the train? Expensive but well worth it. The train is such an annoyance. And happens to be at just about the worst location. What a great city San Diego has turned out to be. Some real smart people doing the planning back in the day.

Build the train track and convention center to separate downtown from the waterfront.

Build the five to separate downtown from Balboa Park.

I love San Diego but it has so much potential to be so much better.

bmfarley Sep 5, 2008 2:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malsponger (Post 3778935)
How about just digging a trench and capping it for the train? Expensive but well worth it. The train is such an annoyance. And happens to be at just about the worst location. What a great city San Diego has turned out to be. Some real smart people doing the planning back in the day.

Build the train track and convention center to separate downtown from the waterfront.

Build the five to separate downtown from Balboa Park.

I love San Diego but it has so much potential to be so much better.

I sorta agree with you about the tracks, but you should understand that trains have been there for over 100 years. Downtown and trains grew up together and unfortunately for local officials... there is not much that can be done to remove them altogether or reduce their footprint. And the owner and lease holder of the right-of-way have all the cards. Local officials have little influence over track activity. Or for that matter... the train horns.

On the other hand, the city or CCDC did do a light feasibility study of doing almost exactly what you suggested about 10-20 years ago.... constructing a trench for heavy rail. Because of the necessary grade requirements and impacts to cross streets... the distance would be quite substantial.... over 2 miles as I recall. The cost... at the time was as high as $300 million. Maybe $500 million. What would it be today??? Perhaps over $1 billion! I don't know.

Despite that I do not think all is lost due to the cost and financial ability of the city. On the horizon is Proposition 1.... a measure to develop a statewide high-speed rail system. The southern most terminus is at Downtown San Diego's Santa Fe Depot. High speed rail cannot be at-grade... so will need to be grade separated; above or below steet level. For the life of me I cannot imagine an airial structure would be palatable to powers that be and below grade will have to be the answer. Or nothing at all. Therefore, I believe it is possible that HSR could be the seed to get the heavy rail stuff below grade. But, I would assume there would have to be some local funding participation.

I am obviously voting yes on Proposition 1... just look at that little picture to the left of my username. So, if you want heavy rail below grade to happen to... one way that could make it so would be to vote yes on Proposition 1A.

bmfarley Sep 5, 2008 2:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesla (Post 3777993)
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear as well. I'm all for the bridge and I think the design looks great. Just after having lived in NYC, Germany, Nashville, and Dallas I can say that downtown San Diego offers the least when it comes to overall "quality of life." I think there are smaller projects that cost less, that in the long run will make a greater impact on downtown as a whole.

I like fountains and scupures.... stuff to look at and are active and cool.

HurricaneHugo Sep 5, 2008 5:07 AM

as if HSR will ever come to san diego...

Marina_Guy Sep 5, 2008 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfarley (Post 3779233)
I like fountains and scupures.... stuff to look at and are active and cool.

If you like Fountains, please go the Gaslamp Quarter's Design Charette Fraud. The GQA is trying to shut down the dancing waters fountain near the Tin Fish. They claim it is a liability because it is too expensive to maintain. I love this fountain and I think monies can be found to fix it and properly maintain it in the future. There are Clean and Safe funds to maintain and I think the Redevelopment Agency and the City can find some funds to fix it.

The GQA wants to 'reprogram' this park so it is more 'event' friendly... in other words use it for corporate parties with white tents that ordinary folks aren't eligible to attend.

staplesla Sep 5, 2008 8:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 3779602)
as if HSR will ever come to san diego...

Why do you think it won't come?

kpexpress Sep 5, 2008 9:54 PM

Is that why those fountains in front of Tin Fish are always gated off? That is horrible! Salt Lake City has seen an extreme explosion of development and excitment from the Gateway Outdoor Mall built recently on the west side (used to be dangerous place that was not at all desirable) The outdoor fountians attract hundreds of families to come out and take in the urban atmosphere and spend money while they do it.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...c6d46bb1_b.jpg

My wife and I always thought it was gated off due to the risk of homeless people bathing in it.

Marina_Guy Sep 5, 2008 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kpexpress (Post 3781038)
Is that why those fountains in front of Tin Fish are always gated off? That is horrible! Salt Lake City has seen an extreme explosion of development and excitment from the Gateway Outdoor Mall built recently on the west side (used to be dangerous place that was not at all desirable) The outdoor fountians attract hundreds of families to come out and take in the urban atmosphere and spend money while they do it.

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...c6d46bb1_b.jpg

My wife and I always thought it was gated off due to the risk of homeless people bathing in it.

Thanks for the picture... No it is just that it is not properly maintained. It is a great fountain and asset to downtown. Save the fountain!!

sandiego_urban Sep 6, 2008 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina_Guy (Post 3779939)
If you like Fountains, please go the Gaslamp Quarter's Design Charette Fraud. The GQA is trying to shut down the dancing waters fountain near the Tin Fish. They claim it is a liability because it is too expensive to maintain.

It's too bad about that fountain. I always thought it made nice entry into the Gaslamp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesla
I'm all for the bridge and I think the design looks great. Just after having lived in NYC, Germany, Nashville, and Dallas I can say that downtown San Diego offers the least when it comes to overall "quality of life."

Are Downtown Nashville and Downtown Dallas that much better now? Last time I was in both, neither downtowns seemed very vibrant outside of the 9 to 5. DT Dallas was pretty much a ghost town, except for the West End area which reallyd didn't impress me. The Reunion Tower is meh.

The only thing I remember about Downtown Nashville is the Batman Tower :)

kpexpress Sep 6, 2008 12:18 AM

Gaslamp fountain could look more like the above pic if there were affordable (safe and desirable) housing for families downtown. When is TOO many luxury condos TOO much? Shouldn't there be an area that is attractive for families to move downtown? And a good public school system to handle the families.

sandiego_urban Sep 6, 2008 12:29 AM

Just some shots from this past weekend -

Sapphire and Bayside as seen from Harbor Island
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6795.jpg

Vantage Pointe is helping to fill in the gap
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6799.jpg

Sapphire and Bayside stand tall from the Embarcadero curve
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6803.jpg

From Harbor Drive
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6805.jpg

From Broadway
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6812.jpg

Skyline from the Coronado Bay Bridge, Imagine how it would look with a few 600 & 700 footers breaking the level plane.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6834.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6836.jpg

From the Ferry Landing (The new Hilton makes the skyline much wider, that I can't fit in one shot anymore)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...IMG_6869-1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...IMG_6868-1.jpg

Hilton
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6855.jpg

Vantage Pointe under construction
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6857.jpg

The illusion of "Stepping down" to the water, but we know which buildings are taller, right?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...s/IMG_6856.jpg

sandiego_urban Sep 6, 2008 12:34 AM

What do think the likelihood is of this project going through? I say zero to none. One can dream, though.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...3/Original.jpg

http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/new...ng_on_dec.html

staplesla Sep 6, 2008 1:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 3781315)
It's too bad about that fountain. I always thought it made nice entry into the Gaslamp.


Are Downtown Nashville and Downtown Dallas that much better now? Last time I was in both, neither downtowns seemed very vibrant outside of the 9 to 5. DT Dallas was pretty much a ghost town, except for the West End area which reallyd didn't impress me. The Reunion Tower is meh.

The only thing I remember about Downtown Nashville is the Batman Tower :)

Since 2004 43 highrises have gone up, mainly in the Uptown region. Dallas has also done a really good job of connecting the areas with walkable, landscaped areas, fountains, a few signature entrances to different areas such as the Oaklawn tower which is basically an oblisk with plantings and is lit up at night. The freeway is being decked over right now as well to link downtown and uptown. Here is a link to that - http://www.wrpproject.com/swf/main.htm. The expansion and beautification of the Katy Trail has added a lot and thousands run on it daily - http://www.katytraildallas.org. Downtown Dallas in the 1990's was a scary place to be at night, but has really changed.

As for Nashville, the Nashville Gulch has really added to the vibrant night-life and SoBro (South of Broadway) is really expanding since the addition of the park next to the new Symphony Hall.

The Dallas city council requires each new developer to add a certain amount of green space to the area and it must include public art, fountains, or landscaping. It has really made a difference.

Dallas and Nashville certainly have their own issues. All I'm saying is that at least they have a vision laid out when developers come forward for the necessary permits. Developers are required to adhere to the green-spacing aspects.

I've included some images of the "gateways" as Dallas calls them as examples of what I'm referenced.

Oaklawn Gateway
http://www.oaklawncommittee.org/images/Gateway_jpg.jpg

Woodal Rogers Park
http://urbandallas.us/images/woodalrogerspark.jpg

stockjock Sep 6, 2008 1:52 AM

Not sure if you guys caught this article about Vantage Pointe on voiceofsandiego.com, but if not, here it is. Even a few quotes from yours truly, for what little that's worth:

http://voiceofsandiego.org/articles/...inte090508.txt

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/conte...90508-full.jpg

Derek Sep 6, 2008 7:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandiego_urban (Post 3781354)
What do think the likelihood is of this project going through? I say zero to none. One can dream, though.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y12...3/Original.jpg

http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/new...ng_on_dec.html

San Francisco, Seattle, Vancouver, Miami? Of course it's going to happen there.



San Diego? Not a chance.

kpexpress Sep 6, 2008 7:52 AM

As I was heading up Broadway this evening I saw quite a large project that just got underway, but I have never heard of it and it isn't listed on CCDC. It is next to the sunrise apartment complex on Broadway and 16th street. Does anyone have any info on it?

HurricaneHugo Sep 6, 2008 8:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staplesla (Post 3780875)
Why do you think it won't come?

Because the state will pay for SF's and LA's little toys, the project is going to be delayed numerous time and it's going to go WAY over budget. Then they're going to tell SD and SAC, "Oh, no money for you, too bad!" And thus SD and SAC get shafted once again in favor of SF and LA.

SDCAL Sep 6, 2008 9:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HurricaneHugo (Post 3782028)
Because the state will pay for SF's and LA's little toys, the project is going to be delayed numerous time and it's going to go WAY over budget. Then they're going to tell SD and SAC, "Oh, no money for you, too bad!" And thus SD and SAC get shafted once again in favor of SF and LA.

EXACTLY this is what I have been saying all along and why I will vote no on the HSR proposition

They took the San Diego route out of the first phase and put wording in the plan that SD and Sac lines are dependant on the "profitability" of the LA-SF line.

What a joke. They just want to string us along so OUR tax money will bennefit LA and SF, it's not right

If they are going to collect taxes from SD and Sacramento residents and NOT use our money to build anything here they can go to hell.

Why should WE contribute our hard earned funds for a project that will bennefit LA and SF and have our turn not even be guaranteed

Hell, I would rather pay taxes to get the library off the ground than to beef up infrastructure that won't even be part of SD County

RIP OFF!!


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.